Kerr: The logic of squad selection is flawed

eirebhoy

Brian Kerr, the former Republic of Ireland manager, joins The Irish Times soccer team.

The Irish squad selection was baffling. There should be criteria for inclusion in an international set-up. Being an outstanding talent obviously helps but every player must earn the right to be called in.

A few years back, after hearing of Caleb Folan's family connections, I went to a Leeds United youth game to see would he be worth selecting for the under-19s. He wasn't and has done precious little since to change my opinion.

When Folan pulled out the opportunity arose to bring in another physically imposing - and more importantly experienced - striker like Alan Lee, Clinton Morrison or even Gary Doherty. If they were to go another way, David Connolly is scoring goals in the English Championship and has some international pedigree. Andy Keogh has not been consistent at a high enough level for long enough.

Again, Darron Gibson has potential but what has he done to earn a place over Liam Miller among others? The logic is flawed and unfortunately consistent. See Sean St Ledger and Alan O'Brien.

Another concern for me with the new regime is the downgrading of video analysis. For all the best federations this is a critical element in match preparation. I was criticised for giving it emphasis but when I was coach the longest video session we ever had was 20 minutes.

Unfortunately, the players' concentration time is quite limited and that was their limit. Whose fault that was I don't know, but everything had to be fine-tuned to really tight versions of the trends in the game so they could stick it.

You see the international rugby players and how they have bought into the technological aspect of preparation. They rigorously analyse the opposition and themselves. And why shouldn't they? Winning is getting harder. Every avenue must be exhausted at this level.

But more of that later.

I have to admit that I'll wake up tomorrow morning with a tinge of regret that I'm not Ireland manager for the first match in Croke Park - especially considering I spent so much of my childhood going there.

My first sporting memory was going to the 1958 All-Ireland final with my Dad to see the Kevin Heffernan-led Dublin beat Derry. I was only five years old so he had to hoist me on to his shoulders.

Memories of him came flooding back this week. Frankie Kerr was Belfast-born but educated all over the globe as one of eight sons of a high-ranking British army officer. He was born in 1916 and travelled through the old British colonies like India and Egypt during the 1920s.

He passed on an appreciation of the joys of sport without bans, bigotry, discrimination or racism. Principles I carry on today.

He didn't come from a Gaelic or soccer background. In fact, he played hockey for Leinster although Frankie Kerr was best known for winning six Irish amateur boxing titles over three weights. The youngest man ever to win a senior title, when only 16 and that legacy is secured as you must now be 17 to box with the seniors.

He worked for Dunlop making footballs and stringing tennis rackets and as a tailor in O'Connell Street before passing away prematurely in 1968.

As a kid in Dublin who played all sports I dreamed of playing for St Pat's, Dublin and Ireland. In no particular order.

My weekends were a blur of attending sports events (actually, they still are) between the National Stadium, Croke Park, Tolka, Richmond, Dalymount, Parnell, Páirc Uí Tuathaill and Lansdowne Road for the odd rugby match. And many more pitches around the Dublin area.

From the time I was eight years old I played for soccer clubs, starting with Rialto, but in 12 years of schooling the ban denied us the opportunity to play in St Michael's, Inchicore or James Street. Still, plenty of balls were confiscated in the school yard by a caretaker named Mr Cooke.

But Gaelic football and hurling ruled supreme in school. I first played in Croke Park in an under-12 football final. I returned for athletics and hurling. I was probably a better corner forward than a soccer player. Initially, at least.

I was never overly affected by the ban, mainly because it didn't impinge on the Dublin youngster, say, like it would a rural kid.

I can remember two brothers called Brian and Fergus Cooney were great Dublin hurlers in the mid-60s who tilted their heads (ala Michael Collins) in the picture for the paper when they lined out for St Stephen's of Drimnagh.

When I left school my participation in GAA sports ended. There was simply no room anymore as I was playing under-17 for Shelbourne and coaching the Crumlin United under-13s.

I still went to Croke Park for big Dublin games, as a teenager with Eamonn Coghlan whose father, Bill, was the stadium PA, or occasionally down to see the local club Good Counsel.

Then there was the famous 12 Apostles final of 1983 when I found myself in a crush behind Hill 16. I survived but ended up watching it all at home.

The GAA policy towards soccer wasn't an issue for me until recent times because I always had plenty of special places to go see the game.

I will be proud to be at Croker tomorrow. Not to see the Dubs or a hurling final, U2 or to speak at a conference but as an Irishman in the new era watching a sport I love in an amazing environment.

Seeing the rugby unfold was a strange feeling, just like soccer in Lansdowne Road initially seemed.

I congratulate the members of the GAA, especially former president Seán Kelly, for making the decision to facilitate all lovers of Irish sport.

Hopefully in the future the circle can be complete by GAA games making use of soccer's better stadiums.

Brian Kerr will analyse Ireland's chances against Wales in tomorrow's Irish Times.

Great addition. I believe he's the most tactically astute guy we've had as Ireland manager and his football knowledge is excellent. He may lack man management skills or whatever to be a really top manager but he's usually spot on when you listen to him (maybe a bit like Souness).

Mitch Connor

when you listen to him he seems to have all the answers, and his analysis of games is very good. However, in his time as ireland manager, the team were as guilt of poor tactics as they are now, but then there had some passion which made up for it. Like a lot of pundits, he talks a better game then he produced. Which is unfortunate, because i was delighted he was named Irish Manager at the time, i thought he would do fantastically well. He really should have been given another campaign.

_blank_

Then perhaps the problem doesn't lie with the managers?

Perhaps it's the players?

Why would Kerr not tell his players to follow the tactics he so obviously has the nous for?

Maybe Steve Staunton is encountering the same problem?

Maybe the players are too up themselves to take guidance from Kerr who was a LoI manager with no experience in the SuperPremierLeague, Staunton just has no experience full stop.

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Why would Kerr not tell his players to follow the tactics he so obviously has the nous for?

He did, after the swiss game Kenny Cunningham pretty much summed up everything thats wrong with the Irish team.

"we had a plan and the gaffer put a lot into it but after 3 minutes we didnt carry it out and started doing what he said not to do" ie hoofing it.


All Hail Kerr


kdjac

eirebhoy

Tauren wrote:

when you listen to him he seems to have all the answers, and his analysis of games is very good. However, in his time as ireland manager, the team were as guilt of poor tactics as they are now, but then there had some passion which made up for it. Like a lot of pundits, he talks a better game then he produced. Which is unfortunate, because i was delighted he was named Irish Manager at the time, i thought he would do fantastically well. He really should have been given another campaign.

If we were to judge Ireland under Kerr on friendlies we'd have been one of the best teams in Europe. Beating the Czechs, Portugal, Norway, Australia, Croatia and others. Winning away to Scotland and Holland and drawing in Poland with hardly any first team players. For some reason the team seemed to play with a lot of fear, particularly when favourites, in competitives. I don't think he made many poor tactical decisions.

People critise him for bringing Kavanagh on for the injured Keane instead of Elliott but at the end of the day it was a bloody freak game that we deserved to win 5-0. It wasn't a defensive substitution. He still played 4-4-2. He just went with the tried and trusted.

I think guys like Keane, Kavanagh and Cunningham realise Kerr was an intelligient guy.

Raskolnikov

He essentially singing from the same hymn sheet as Keane . . .

Kingp35

One thing stands out for me about Brian Kerrs tactical skills. That home game against Israel when we were 2-0 up and cruising. Robbie Keane then gets injured and Kerr makes one of the most stupid and negative substitutions I have ever seen in a football match. There is no doubt in my mind that the decision he made was the major factor in us losing that game.

He might talk a good tactical game but he doesnt do it.

Mitch Connor

eirebhoy wrote:

If we were to judge Ireland under Kerr on friendlies we'd have been one of the best teams in Europe. Beating the Czechs, Portugal, Norway, Australia, Croatia and others. Winning away to Scotland and Holland and drawing in Poland with hardly any first team players. For some reason the team seemed to play with a lot of fear, particularly when favourites, in competitives. I don't think he made many poor tactical decisions.

People critise him for bringing Kavanagh on for the injured Keane instead of Elliott but at the end of the day it was a bloody freak game that we deserved to win 5-0. It wasn't a defensive substitution. He still played 4-4-2. He just went with the tried and trusted.

I think guys like Keane, Kavanagh and Cunningham realise Kerr was an intelligient guy.

I do like Kerr - but there is something wrong with the Irish set up, and has been for a while. No matter the manager.

Too often we sit back, doesn't matter who we are playing against. We try to play some freaking european style of football, which the players can not do. The irish team should "put 'em under pressure". I'm not saying hoof it and run, but attack the opposition, get in quick and tight, move the ball quickly to the talented fellas and let them run with it. But we don't. We sit back, and let the opposition come at us. When we get an advantage, we don't press it.

I can see it is wrong, i'm sure all of you can too, i'm sure McCarthy, Kerr and even Stan see it - but it happens time and time again. maybe it is the player, but it is the manager who is picking these players.

BaZmO*

Brian Kerr wrote:

Another concern for me with the new regime is the downgrading of video analysis. For all the best federations this is a critical element in match preparation. I was criticised for giving it emphasis but when I was coach the longest video session we ever had was 20 minutes.

Unfortunately, the players' concentration time is quite limited and that was their limit. Whose fault that was I don't know, but everything had to be fine-tuned to really tight versions of the trends in the game so they could stick it.

I find that extraordinary. I know professional footballers aren't known for their high IQ's but having difficulties keeping interest in a video about your job for more than 20 minutes is worrying.

I remember when it first came out that the players didn't like all the analysis of games on video I was under the impression that they were made sit through hours and hours of footage but 20mins? :rolleyes:

_blank_

Tauren wrote:

maybe it is the player, but it is the manager who is picking these players.

To be fair to international managers worldwide, it's not as if you can 'buy' in a squad, work with what you've got in the main.

Or go and find some bling-bling londoner with tenuous links to the country and get him a speedy passport.

Of course, we have no players playing in this country, anywhere.

eirebhoy

Kingp35 wrote:

One thing stands out for me about Brian Kerrs tactical skills. That home game against Israel when we were 2-0 up and cruising. Robbie Keane then gets injured and Kerr makes one of the most stupid and negative substitutions I have ever seen in a football match. There is no doubt in my mind that the decision he made was the major factor in us losing that game.

Exaggeration of the week goes to...

Lineup that began the game:

---

Keane---Morrison

---

Duff---Kilbane---Holland---Reid

Lineup after Keane went off injured:

---

Duff----Morrison

---

Kilbane---Kavanagh---Holland---Reid

Most negative substition ever?

Maybe he should have brought Elliott on, I won't even go as far as to say in hindsight as the game was so bizarre. Only Israel score headers outside the box from a free kick in the middle of the pitch and Shay Given picks this match to miskick a ball and give it to the Israeli's which lead to the peno. I suppose Elliott would have changed that? Israel's most dangerous attack (other than the penalty incident) was 10 minutes before Keane went off.

It was a freak game, we dominated for the first 20 minutes and the entire 2nd half and should have easily scored 4 or 5. No need to look for a reason for that defeat, it wasn't deserved.

One of the best performances by an Ireland team, that I can remember, was that 1-0 win in Holland. They had only previously lost once in the Amsterdam Arena since it was built 10 years previous. It was Holland's last match before the Euros and players were playing for their places. You could see by the crowd reaction that this match wasn't meaningless. You could have mistaken this team containing Maybury, A.Quinn, Barrett and Andy O'Brien for Italy. None of Shays kicks were long, they were all short to the defenders and the Dutch were probably shocked with our passing game.

I'm bewildered as to why Gordon Strachan plays Jiri Jarosik on the left wing every now and then but there's no other manager I'd prefer at Celtic.

No manager doesn't make strange decisions but it doesn't mean they're tactically inept.

Kingp35

Well the thing to consider with that change was that instead of changing one position on the team ie Elliott for Keane, Kerr changed three positions in the team and disrupted the shape of the side ie Moving Duff from the left up front, Kilbane from the middle to the left and then Kavanagh in the middle. This disrupted the team.

Yes they were freak goals but we sat back after that sub and invited Israel to get chances. They did and the sub was a huge factor in that. Then we have the other famous sub made by Kerr in that game by bringing Doherty on. Now bringing him on was not a bad sub but bringing him on for Andy Reid who is our best passer and crosser of the ball was unbelievable. Reid was the one player who could supply Doherty with the service and Kerr takes him off.

Anyway I remember having this argument with you before eirebhoy so im gonna shut up now

eirebhoy

Kingp35 wrote:

Well the thing to consider with that change was that instead of changing one position on the team ie Elliott for Keane, Kerr changed three positions in the team and disrupted the shape of the side ie Moving Duff from the left up front, Kilbane from the middle to the left and then Kavanagh in the middle. This disrupted the team.

Maybe it did. As I said, managers make decisions we don't agree with all the time. I don't agree that we sat back and let them create chances though. They created pretty much nothing.

BaZmO*

Didn't Kerr say the reason why he didn't bring on Elliott is because he was playing sh1te in training and didn't want to risk him.

Hindsight is a great thing but we should've really been able to put Israel away at this stage considering that we were 2-0 up but that's all history now.

leninbenjamin

Kerr's biggest problem by the sound of it was his relationships with the players. He seems to know his tactics quite well, although imo he does tend toward the negative, but Chelsea have shown that's not necessarily a hindrence. But the players never looked like they were enitrely behind him, and certainly seemed to fall into the same oul patterns when times got tough...

some of this has carried over to the new regime under staunton (and i'm not absolving Stauntons tactical ineptitude, it just seems like another factor for the crap we see). it's surprising, because he played with some of these guys (seemed to get along with them to me) and i would have though even with the ****e tactics and all that they would be more up for the games. But they never look like they want to play "for" him, they certainly never play like their life depends on it like a lot of the better teams do... i'm beginning to think more (or at least a sizeable part) of the problem lies in the players attitudes than anything a manager can do...

Seaneh

the second he mentioned garry doherty as a striker he lost all credability to be honest...

The Insider

Kingp35 wrote:

One thing stands out for me about Brian Kerrs tactical skills. That home game against Israel when we were 2-0 up and cruising. Robbie Keane then gets injured and Kerr makes one of the most stupid and negative substitutions I have ever seen in a football match.

:rolleyes:

How is pushing Duff up front instead of Elliot one of the must stupid and negative substitutions you have ever seen? Do you think Elliot is that much a better player?

Kingp35

The Insider wrote:

:rolleyes:

How is pushing Duff up front instead of Elliot one of the must stupid and negative substitutions you have ever seen? Do you think Elliot is that much a better player?

I explained this already. Putting on Elliott means making one change, putting on Kavanagh meant making three changes. Plus Duff is not a forward and never will be.

GuanYin

Personally I don't think Kerr had the backing of many of the players. I think the the smarter players respected him but I think alot of the players who didn't come through the Irish ranks when Kerr was there had serious doubts about his credentials. It seems to me the teams best performances came when understrength and missing senior players.

A few players have said they found the tactical talks boring - what the hell are they doing playing professional football then? Cunningham says that they didn't follow Kerrs tactics - you have to ask why players wouldn't follow a managers directions.

I still think Kerr should have been given more time. He didn't do anything wrong that Staunton hasn't done - his squads related to the players available, were more sensible than Stauntons.

Tactically, as much as people joke, Doherty scored some vital goals fore Ireland, some of them late on too. Like many big men, he is always a gamble. What's Staunton given us?

Seaneh

Given more time?

Feck off!

vorbis

Kerr's biggest problem was not tactics but as others have mentioned in failing to get the team fired up. Mick McCarthy bizarrely was the last irish manager to really get the team fired up.

The do or die match against Switzerland for the euros (under Kerr) was one of the most insipid performances ever by an irish team. I'd lay the blame 50:50 on Kerr and the players. Kerr takes blame as he was not able to earn the respect of the players. The players obviously take blame for not performing.

The Rooster

Kerr wasnt perfect, but it was ridiculous to sack him without anyone better lined up. Nobody could put up any sort of argument that Stan is a better manager than Kerr.

Limerick Dude

Who does Kerr think he is, he was a shíte manager for us. How can he come out and criticise the current manager when he was shíte himself. Thats extremely unprofessional from kerr, silly old git.

PHB

Nobody could. When Kerr was sacked, we were all talking about much better managers than Stan.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

herbieflowers

Limerick Dude wrote:

Who does Kerr think he is, he was a shíte manager for us. How can he come out and criticise the current manager when he was shíte himself. Thats extremely unprofessional from kerr, silly old git.

At least we bet San Marino convincingly and didn't lose horribly to Cyprus...

Pigman II

Journalism seems a perfect job for Kerr considering he talks a good game.

ciaran76

Limerick Dude wrote:

Who does Kerr think he is, he was a shíte manager for us. How can he come out and criticise the current manager when he was shíte himself. Thats extremely unprofessional from kerr, silly old git.

How many competitive games did we lose under Kerr?

Pigman II

ciaran76 wrote:

How many competitive games did we lose under Kerr?

How many did we win (not counting mickey-mouse opposition)? Don't bother checking. The answer is zero.

ciaran76

Pigman II wrote:

How many did we win (not counting mickey-mouse opposition)? Don't bother checking. The answer is zero.

What a statement !!!:rolleyes:

Pigman II

ciaran76 wrote:

What a statement !!!:rolleyes:

Yes, heaven-forbid I should point out under Kerr we had the most ineffective impotent team for over 30 years.

Hell (as things stand) even Staunton looks like hes gonna engineer a bigger win than Kerr ever managed in nearly 3 years. That says it all.

Ooooh and now just to top it off check this out .... :rolleyes:

Do I get to go to big-school now?

ciaran76

Pigman II wrote:

Hell (as things stand) even Staunton looks like hes gonna engineer a bigger win than Kerr ever managed in nearly 3 years. That says it all.

Do you consider Wales a big team ????

Pigman II

ciaran76 wrote:

Do you consider Wales a big team ????

Bigger than Kerrs scalps of those world-beaters Cyprus, Faeroes, Albania or Georgia? Hmm, yes just about. At least Wales have made some small impression on the history of world football to date.

ciaran76

Pigman II wrote:

Bigger than Kerrs scalps of those world-beaters Cyprus, Faeroes, Albania or Georgia? Hmm, yes just about. At least Wales have made some small impression on the history of world football to date.

Well I would rank Wales ,Cyprus and Georgia as very similar teams.

I understand where you are coming from with Kerr but I think with the way the FAI are he was the best we could get and I dont see us moving any futher forward almost 1 year on.

tetsujin1979

What was the highest ranked side beaten by Kerr? Albania in 80-something, right? Staunton beat Wales, in 77th.

John_C

tetsujin1979 wrote:

What was the highest ranked side beaten by Kerr? Albania in 80-something, right? Staunton beat Wales, in 77th.

What was the lowest ranked side Kerr lost to?

LuckyLloyd

Limerick Dude wrote:

Who does Kerr think he is, he was a shíte manager for us. How can he come out and criticise the current manager when he was shíte himself. Thats extremely unprofessional from kerr, silly old git.

Oh Lord. I think you have a furture in football journalism and punditry.


I would agree with what has been said above regarding the players who came out and spoke up for Kerr after the Switzerland match, and had generally positive things to say about how he operated during his tenure. Keane and Cunningham never had a bad word to say about him and they would have been the most respected and professional players he had on the squad.

We can argue over who he failed to beat, and can accuse him of making incorrect decisions at key times in the drawn games against Israel. But we were competative at the very least, and were really quite close to qualification. And there was nothing under his stewardship to compare to the Dutch friendly, the Cyprus debacle or the ineptitude in San Marino.

Kerr failed to qualify from a group that we assumed we would get out of. As such, his abillity to continue in the role was rightly up for debate at that time. However, just as we assumed we would get to the World Cup - it was reasonable to assume that he would be replaced with a more competant manager with greater credentials for International Management. This just didn't happen.

In my opinion, no reasonable fan can argue against the fact that we have taken a couple of giant leaps backwords since Staunton took over. So far we have seen the International team give the worst displays since some of the away flakeouts under Eoin Hand back in the early 80's. There was definately some varying degrees of underachievment under Charlton, McCarthy and Kerr - but nothing that could quite compare to the Cyprus and San Marino performances. We are in the darkest place Irish football has been in for a long, long time.

As such, I think that the likes of Kerr and Keane have every right to criticise. They can critiscise because they did a much, much better job than those who currently fill their former roles.


And on a very final point, anyone who talks smack about Brian Kerr obviously has very short memories about the sterling work he did with underage teams for years before he got the call up to the senior team. The fact that he is on the outside looking in is a crying shame for the entire international setup.