Who Is The Best Wrestler In WWE Right Now

kentonbomb

Mine Would Be HBK,Ken Kennedy And Jeff Hardy

HBK

kentonbomb wrote:

Mine Would Be HBK,Ken Kennedy And Jeff Hardy

hmmm dont think any of them...hbk...well past it..granted on a given day he can put on the show..but i mean..hes walking in a stoop these days.....jeff hardy..while i like him as a performer...hes not anywhere near the top wrestler..the guy made his name on doing crazy moves..if he had never done so..he would be nowhere.........ken kennedy...mm ok...potential there...

its tough to define best 'wrestler' in wwe...if was TNA,then you have quiet the selection...the fallen angel.........AJ Stlyes etc........

to mention a few:

--chris benoit - getting on now but still has it - even tho hes as stale as hell these days

--Johnny Nitro - this guy has got it - and if given the chance..cud do well - joey mercury isnt not bad either

--Undertaker - came back fitter n stronger than ever this time, unlike most legends these days, he doesnt bumble around the ring n look terrible(ric flair).

--Triple H - out for long time but still one most gifted, ring timing is spot on..

--Edge - this guy can wrestle

--Randy Orton - ditto

so ya couldnt pick one only...

Mr.Nice Guy

HBK wrote:

hmmm dont think any of them...hbk...well past it..granted on a given day he can put on the show..but i mean..hes walking in a stoop these days.....

What are you on crack? For my money HBK is the best wrestler in the world at this point in time and is in a strong position already for being the best wrestler of 2007.

Think back to New Year's Revolution - HHH got his injury and the match was falling apart with Orton running around like a headless chicken. Up steps HBK diving out of the ring on Orton, punching the ref and taking a chair and hitting everyone that moved. He then gave the fans an elbow on Orton from the turnbuckle. He saved that match.

Then there was the Royal Rumble. Michaels and Taker put on a great performance at the end of the bout.

Then there was his many great performances on Raw such as his street fight with Edge. The guy is on fire right now.

I'm sticking my neck out right now and I'm predicting HBK takes Cena to the match of his career at WM23 as well as the match of the night. He is the showstopper and whenever people doubt him he always proves them wrong in the end.

PS putting Orton on the list of great wrestlers in the world is pretty laughable when you consider he had numerous 'boring' chants directed his way for his match with Bobby Lashley on ECW. Somehow I don't think Michaels would have heard chants like that.

Minto

Triple H and Edge have to be the best at the moment in my opinion. Honourable mentions to 'Taker (who is in the best shape of his life) and Michaels (who is like a fine wine: only gets better with age).

Fozzy

Judging by what they are doing at the moment, and in the last year, on tv, I'd say either Shawn Michaels or Edge. Shawn just keeps on going, you wouldn't think he's ever been injured when you see him move around the ring. I used to despise Edge, but he's grown into one of the best heels in WWE in years

But I have to at least give CM Punk a mention. Just because he hasn't been given a chance to shine in WWE yet doesn't mean that he's lost it. He's better on the mic than 95% of guys in WWE and I've seen better matches out of him than I ever have out of 95% of the wrestlers in WWE. He's got a unique gimmick, and I'm just hopin that WWE give him the chance soon to show the WWE audience exactly how good he is

Double C

Michaels and Taker are probably the two best in WWE now overall, from a technical standpoint and as draws. Triple H is up there too, but not at the same level.
Edge is definitely the best heel in the company now, and for a long time. Punk will rank in this category in a few years when he is taken off that excuse for a tv show and put onto Raw as the straight edge "Better than You" heel he was born to be.
Technically, Benoit is head and shoulders above anyone else in WWE.


A more interesting question is which young wrestler on the current WWE roster do you think will be 'the next John Cena'(for want of a better expression)?
No one really stands out apart from Punk and Kennedy. Maybe Marcus cor Von eventually, he is good on the mic and has that spark needed for such a position.

Gillie

HBK HHH and Edge for me!

With Nitro, Orton and Kennedy (shock horror!) as runners up

triple h

HHH & Edge

I also think shelton & carlito are good.

HBK

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

PS putting Orton on the list of great wrestlers in the world is pretty laughable when you consider he had numerous 'boring' chants directed his way for his match with Bobby Lashley on ECW. Somehow I don't think Michaels would have heard chants like that.

hmm..think about that...its BECAUSE the match was with lashley...who is a pile of piss..a black brock lesner/goldberg..one comes along every few years.....though i will say..orton as a face sucks..natural asshole so leave him as a heal....but the guy can wrestle..

ya uour are definatley right...michaels wouldnt of heard that...when he done his..flying elbow thru the air/kip up....couple punches...atomic drop....up top for elbow...then jump up wave the hands round..and stomp the ground for a bit....its old..........now dont get me wrong...great wrestler...im just saying....getting old...

ec18

taker or HHH as the best wrestler. Hardy and Cena as teh best performers

d6

in reply to hbk do not compare brock lesnar and goldberg, brock had IT and would be making alot of money today had he had the passion for the business

as for best wrestlers in wwe today i think purely based on wrestling not charisma and ability to connect with fans


i would choose off the top of my head
hhh
hbk
finlay
benoit
taker
regal
holly
shelton
chavo

Fozzy

Yeah, Brock could wrestle. He had talent

I didn't see the Orton/Lashley match, but to me Orton isn't the kind of guy who can carry someone to a good match. His offence mostly consists of long restholds, Kennedy's a lot like that too. Doesn't excite me a whole lot. I have to say though that Orton's Garvin stomp is one of my favourite moves at the moment

HBK

d6 wrote:

in reply to hbk do not compare brock lesnar and goldberg, brock had IT and would be making alot of money today had he had the passion for the business

hmm well you could say goldberg was the first to have IT... back in the day(1997onwards)...Lesner was the first imitation of him..hence why the fued happend at WM20....dont get me wrong...didnt like either compatents...n when they got booed out of the building in MSG it was great....and the fact that Lesner didnt have any interest/passion for the business should tell you all right there....

by the way....

who gives a **** about regal and holly?...seriously..

Double C

HBK wrote:

lashley...who is a pile of piss..a black brock lesner/goldberg

If only Lashley was a black Goldberg or Lesnar, who were not piles of piss, if the truth be told.

Fozzy wrote:

I have to say though that Orton's Garvin stomp is one of my favourite moves at the moment

His headlock backbreaker thing is pretty nifty too. He could be great I think but he is too boring in the ring.

HBK wrote:

who gives a **** about regal?

Please take that back. Please!

Fozzy

I give more than a **** about Regal. He's easily one of the best wrestlers WWE has. I've been pissed off that he hasn't been on SD in over 2 months now, because he was having great matches every week, and then whenever he got to take on Benoit or Finlay it was just amazing

There is no comparison between Goldberg and Lesnar in my opinion. Goldberg had presence, and could only work one style of fight, a sort of fight which left a lot of people feeling unfulfilled. Brock could wrestle good matches with practically anyone, and he had great matches when he fought great wrestlers. The same can't be said for Goldberg

fatal

with regards best wrestlers in WWE,it is kind of hard to answer that because there are so many that have been solid wrestlers well for as long as I can remember-benoit,finley,regal etc etc.Those guys it seems will never become "bad" wrestlers.

Then there are wrestlers that have REALLY proven themselves and stepped up.I think when given the chance,HBK deservingly stood up to the wrestlemania mainevent spot this year .Like Vince said,he has put on a hell of a show in the last few months-from his royal rumble match to saving the match against Rated RKO at New Years revolution and much more in between.

Then there are others that I would consider are doing quite well.They would be the likes of Edge,Nitro(although he hasnt been on RAW much over the last month),Undertaker(the guy still has "it"!!!!).

Fozzy wrote:

I have to say though that Orton's Garvin stomp is one of my favourite moves at the moment

O I have to agree with you on that one.I love seeing him stomping the hell out of his opponents from head to toe....

Mr.Nice Guy

HBK wrote:

hmm..think about that...its BECAUSE the match was with lashley...who is a pile of piss..a black brock lesner/goldberg..one comes along every few years.....though i will say..orton as a face sucks..natural asshole so leave him as a heal....but the guy can wrestle..

The guy can wrestle but he's not the kind of wrestler that can get a great match out of anybody. I wouldn't say Lashley is a pile of piss. He's better than a lot of other big man wrestlers such as Batista, Kane, Snitsky etc. A truly great wrestler would have gotten a good match with Lashley like Finlay was able to do on Smackdown.

HBK wrote:

ya uour are definatley right...michaels wouldnt of heard that...when he done his..flying elbow thru the air/kip up....couple punches...atomic drop....up top for elbow...then jump up wave the hands round..and stomp the ground for a bit....its old..........now dont get me wrong...great wrestler...im just saying....getting old...

As opposed to Randy Orton's numerous chin locks? I see he's added a great new move to his repertoire, the Boston Crab. A move that wasn't too well received on ECW though - probably on account of him applying it about five times.

Anyone suffering from insomnia should consider watching Orton's numerous sleeper holds or, failing that, listen to one of his promos.

HBK

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

As opposed to Randy Orton's numerous chin locks? I see he's added a great new move to his repertoire, the Boston Crab. A move that wasn't too well received on ECW though - probably on account of him applying it about five times.

Anyone suffering from insomnia should consider watching Orton's numerous sleeper holds or, failing that, listen to one of his promos.

Had'nt noticed myself! :rolleyes:

Karmafaerie

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I'm sticking my neck out right now and I'm predicting HBK takes Cena to the match of his career at WM23 as well as the match of the night. He is the showstopper and whenever people doubt him he always proves them wrong in the end.

Well, they have always said that Michaels could have a good match with a broom, so I guess if anybody can make Cena look good!;)
(I mean seriously! How many times can he get beaten up for the whole God damn match, hit a couple of shoulder tackles, gut wrench powerbomb, five knuckle shuffle, FU, STFU!:rolleyes:
Every single match it's the exact same ****!
People slag off Michaels for the way he ends, but at least he has a great match before hand. Sorry rant over!)

d6 wrote:

in reply to hbk do not compare brock lesnar and goldberg, brock had IT and would be making alot of money today had he had the passion for the business

Well to be honest I don't think that he didn't have the drive.
He was just ridiculously young and wanted to try American Football before he was too old.
When that didn't work because of injuries, he wanted to go back to wrestling straight away, but the contract release he had signed with WWE didn't allow it. And now literely years of putting up with that legal s**t has understandably turned him off the buisness.

He's about to make his MMA debut in June anyway, and nobody can deny that he has all that it takes to be dominant in the heavyweight MMA divisions of the world.
He's faster than pretty much everybody his size, one of the best amateur wrestlers America's ever produced, very strong and powerful, and he's been training for over half a year with Royce Gracie FFS!
The top MMA champs make a hell of a lot more than the top wrestlers!

Fozzy wrote:

I give more than a **** about Regal. He's easily one of the best wrestlers WWE has. I've been pissed off that he hasn't been on SD in over 2 months now, because he was having great matches every week, and then whenever he got to take on Benoit or Finlay it was just amazing

Yeah Regal is one of the most underrated wrestlers in the buisness.
Plus the numerous ridiculous story lines and persona's that WWE have foisted off on him don't help!
(Remember when he first joined as a "Real Man":rolleyes: )

I remember a few months ago when Smackdown went through that mysterious kidney infection epidemic!
Kahli, Lashley, Mat Hardy, Psychosis, Mercury, and Kid Kash were all taken off the rosta just before a PPV.
Lashley was supposed to be in a three-way with Regal and Finlay, but when he wasn't I thought finally a good match!
Which it was. Too top class brawlers just let loose upon each other.

Anyway to answer the OP's question, IMO HBK and Taker are both carrying the torches at the moment.
Edge is just a step off the pace, but has improved ten fold since his move to Raw, and heel turn.
If Matt Hardy pulls his thumb out, and gets a new gimmick, (his heel V1 had promise), I still reckon he has what it takes to make it to the top.
Of the young guys, Kennedy, Nitro and maybe MVP are the only ones that seem to have that spark to progress to the top.

Double C

Karmafaerie wrote:

(I mean seriously! How many times can he get beaten up for the whole God damn match, hit a couple of shoulder tackles, gut wrench powerbomb, five knuckle shuffle, FU, STFU!:rolleyes:
Every single match it's the exact same ****!

Come on, you can apply that logic to every wrestler ever. I remember here a few months ago someone pointed out all Bret's moves, trying to make the same point as you did, and he ended up listing off about 10 moves, defeating his own argument. Anyone who was seen Secrets of the Ring with Raven will get the idea that wrestlers really only need 4 or 5 signature moves that they can hit perfectly, everything else is off the cuff.

Karmafaerie wrote:

Yeah Regal is one of the most underrated wrestlers in the buisness.
Plus the numerous ridiculous story lines and persona's that WWE have foisted off on him don't help!
(Remember when he first joined as a "Real Man":rolleyes: )

This should bring back some funny memories!

Karmafaerie wrote:

If Matt Hardy pulls his thumb out, and gets a new gimmick, (his heel V1 had promise), I still reckon he has what it takes to make it to the top.

I 100% agree. Why he hasn't been pushed to the upper part of the card yet is beyond me. He gets one of the bigger pops every week on SD, he's a great worker that can work numerous styles (as he proved in his ROH stint) and he has a great look. The only thing holding him back, apart from Vince , is his lack of mic skills.

chopperbyrne

Double C wrote:

I 100% agree. Why he hasn't been pushed to the upper part of the card yet is beyond me. He gets one of the bigger pops every week on SD, he's a great worker that can work numerous styles (as he proved in his ROH stint) and he has a great look. The only thing holding him back, apart from Vince , is his lack of mic skills.

He needs a heel turn and a valet/manager.

Lesnar sucked on the mic but Heyman did all his talking for him when he started.

They really should bring back Heyman as on-screen talent. He could shoot on ECW and manage someone like Matt or Shelton. Someone who has potential but little mic skills.

Karmafaerie

Double C wrote:

Come on, you can apply that logic to every wrestler ever. I remember here a few months ago someone pointed out all Bret's moves, trying to make the same point as you did, and he ended up listing off about 10 moves, defeating his own argument. Anyone who was seen Secrets of the Ring with Raven will get the idea that wrestlers really only need 4 or 5 signature moves that they can hit perfectly, everything else is off the cuff.

I think you misinterpreted me a bit.
I can see what you mean but I was complaining about the fact that every one of Cena's matches is the same the whole way through.
It doesn't matter who he's facing. He get beaten up for the entire match, and then gets up, does his little repertoire and wins.
It doesn't matter whether he's a big guy, small guy, fat guy, whatever!
(HHH, Edge, Angle, Orton, Umaga, RVD, he's had the exact same kind of match against all these guys in the last year!:rolleyes: )
I honestly think that if Cena had to wrestle Scotty 2 Hotty, or Eugene then he'd still spend the whole match getting beaten and then win;)

The guy can only have one kinda match, and it's not a very good match.

Double C wrote:

This should bring back some funny memories!

Classic!:D
"A real man's man!"

Double C wrote:

I 100% agree. Why he hasn't been pushed to the upper part of the card yet is beyond me. He gets one of the bigger pops every week on SD, he's a great worker that can work numerous styles (as he proved in his ROH stint) and he has a great look. The only thing holding him back, apart from Vince , is his lack of mic skills.

I thought that he'd come on a long way from his tag days.
Both he and Jeff were atrocious back then, (Jeff still is!), but Matt has gotten a little better.
Some of that V1 stuff was class.
The whole sushi diet, or Shannon Moore carrying the Hardy's book around like a bible!:D, even the late great Crash Holly's stint as a "Moron" was pretty funny!

Mr.Nice Guy

Karmafaerie wrote:

I think you misinterpreted me a bit.
I can see what you mean but I was complaining about the fact that every one of Cena's matches is the same the whole way through.
It doesn't matter who he's facing. He get beaten up for the entire match, and then gets up, does his little repertoire and wins.
It doesn't matter whether he's a big guy, small guy, fat guy, whatever!
(HHH, Edge, Angle, Orton, Umaga, RVD, he's had the exact same kind of match against all these guys in the last year!:rolleyes: )
I honestly think that if Cena had to wrestle Scotty 2 Hotty, or Eugene then he'd still spend the whole match getting beaten and then win;)

I think you're being too critical of Cena. Most top babyfaces have had to apply this kind of style. When The Rock was the top babyface he would get beaten up all the time too, even by mid-carders, before he'd go through his repertoire - samoan drop, clothesline, spinebuster, people's elbow. I remember someone saying to me how he was the worst tag team wrestler ever because as soon as he'd get a tag he'd always get beaten up by the heels, but this was how the heels were able to get heat.

Karmafaerie wrote:

The guy can only have one kinda match, and it's not a very good match.

Again I think's that's unfair. His match with Umaga at the Royal Rumble in January was arguably his best ever match. He sold his injuries very well and was able to pull off some innovative offence.

He also engaged in several different kinds of matches with Edge last year in a rivalry that didn't get stale. Edge perhaps deserves most of the credit for that but Cena deserves some too.

It bugs me to hear people still adopting the whole "Cena sucks" attitude when you have guys like Batista stinking up arenas and not getting nearly enough stick for it.

Let's wait and see how he does at WM23. I'm confident he will deliver a great performance.

Karmafaerie

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I think you're being too critical of Cena. Most top babyfaces have had to apply this kind of style. When The Rock was the top babyface he would get beaten up all the time too, even by mid-carders, before he'd go through his repertoire - samoan drop, clothesline, spinebuster, people's elbow. I remember someone saying to me how he was the worst tag team wrestler ever because as soon as he'd get a tag he'd always get beaten up by the heels, but this was how the heels were able to get heat.



Again I think's that's unfair. His match with Umaga at the Royal Rumble in January was arguably his best ever match. He sold his injuries very well and was able to pull off some innovative offence.

He also engaged in several different kinds of matches with Edge last year in a rivalry that didn't get stale. Edge perhaps deserves most of the credit for that but Cena deserves some too.

It bugs me to hear people still adopting the whole "Cena sucks" attitude when you have guys like Batista stinking up arenas and not getting nearly enough stick for it.

Let's wait and see how he does at WM23. I'm confident he will deliver a great performance.

That's just it.
Cena doesn't suck!
Or at least he shouldn't.

When Cena first appeared on the scene he had something.
He had the look obviously, and he had good mic skills and he worked hard.

Some of his mid card matches were really good.
His work with Taker, Big Show, Lesnar, and most of all the great Eddie Guerrero, were by far his best in the company.

Cena just got pushed too big too quick.
Vince is obsessed with the idea of making him the next Hogan.
If he'd had to work his way to the top, he'd be a much more rounded wrestler.
Look at somebody like Edge for instance. He's had to climb the ladder, pardon the pun, in order to earn his top card billing.
And he's a much, much, better wrestler because of that.
It was the same with the Rock.
You were right about how Rock was forced to do the baby face comeback while he was the face champ, but occasionally he'd pull something else out of the bag.
Plus he used to sell differently to different wrestlers.
Cena would react the same in a match with JBL as with Spike Dudly!:p
He was no concept of ring psychology, cause he's never had to work any other kind of match.
Plus since he became the ultimate face, his mic skills are strongly censored.
He's a children's wrestler now, so he can't make puns about blow jobs or **** every other week like he used to.

What sums it up for me, is that there's a WWE Champ, you gets led in every single match he's in!
I've never heard of that.
I remember a match he had on Raw a couple of years ago, against Tyson Tomko. Tomko clearly led him through everything!
Tomko, a "minder" for a then mid card (Christian) wrestler was leading the champ!:eek:
And to make it worse, Tomko even pulled off more moves than Cena!
All Cena does is punch, shoulder tackle, and if we're extra lucky an odd hip toss, untill he's setting up his finish!

I take your point about Batista.
He's the new Ultimate Warrior, although the Warrior had better mic skills (Nobody knew what he was saying of course, but damn it sounded cool!:D ).
Thing is though, we don't have Batista being portrayed as the greatest thing ever in wrestling all the time.
Vinnie Mac is constantly trying to shove Cena down our throats, so it's understandable that it pisses people off.

Even as a kid, I knew that the Warrior was crap, but I was still glad when he beat Hogan!:p

Minto

Double C wrote:

This should bring back some funny memories!

I remember listening to that on the WWE Anthology and coming close to p*ssing my pants, I love it, lol! Regal deserves a World title run, pure and simple. People talk about Benoit getting another run, but IMHO, Regal deserves a first one way more than Benoit deserves another.

Mr.Nice Guy

Karmafaerie wrote:

That's just it.
Cena doesn't suck!
Or at least he shouldn't.

When Cena first appeared on the scene he had something.
He had the look obviously, and he had good mic skills and he worked hard.

Some of his mid card matches were really good.
His work with Taker, Big Show, Lesnar, and most of all the great Eddie Guerrero, were by far his best in the company.

Cena just got pushed too big too quick.
Vince is obsessed with the idea of making him the next Hogan.
If he'd had to work his way to the top, he'd be a much more rounded wrestler.
Look at somebody like Edge for instance. He's had to climb the ladder, pardon the pun, in order to earn his top card billing.
And he's a much, much, better wrestler because of that.
It was the same with the Rock.

I don't think he was pushed that quickly really. I agree that his WWE title win at WM21 came off as rushed but that was due to all the emphasis being on Batista at the time. Then Cena was switched to Raw and pushed very heavily and fans rejected it. However at WM20 he only opened the show and the year before that he wasn't even on the card, all he did was give a rap. Contrast that with a guy like Lashley who is in a huge spot in only his second Wrestlemania. The problem with Cena was that he had, and still has, way more charisma than pretty much everyone else on their roster right now.

Karmafaerie wrote:

You were right about how Rock was forced to do the baby face comeback while he was the face champ, but occasionally he'd pull something else out of the bag.
Plus he used to sell differently to different wrestlers.
Cena would react the same in a match with JBL as with Spike Dudly!:p
He was no concept of ring psychology, cause he's never had to work any other kind of match.

I think his psychology is very good. I'm not sure what you expect Cena to do in his matches? He can't be put in the ring with a guy like Johnny Nitro and totally beat the crap out of him because it would make Nitro look bad. The fans that follow Cena want to see him hit all his trademark moves and mount that comeback.

Karmafaerie wrote:

What sums it up for me, is that there's a WWE Champ, you gets led in every single match he's in!
I've never heard of that.
I remember a match he had on Raw a couple of years ago, against Tyson Tomko. Tomko clearly led him through everything!
Tomko, a "minder" for a then mid card (Christian) wrestler was leading the champ!:eek:
And to make it worse, Tomko even pulled off more moves than Cena!
All Cena does is punch, shoulder tackle, and if we're extra lucky an odd hip toss, untill he's setting up his finish!

In fairness to him though he has many years left in the tank to improve. Unlike Batista he seems to be willing to better himself. I don't know any babyface that has had the amount of abuse that he has took and yet he gets on with things and doesn't seem to be a prima donna.

His two PPV matches with Umaga were very watchable matches and I expect the same to be the case at WM23 against HBK.

It's not the responsibility of babyfaces to dictate a match, that's the heel's job. I've heard Bret Hart say that in numerous interviews and he was arguably the greatest in-ring storyteller.

When was the last time you watched a Cena match and thought "man, that match was sh*t." I would say it's been quite a while because while he doesn't always put on stellar matches, they don't tend to be diabolical either.

I just think people should give the guy a break. There are far worse wrestlers in WWE right now. Far, far worse.

Minto

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

When was the last time you watched a Cena match and thought "man, that match was sh*t." I would say it's been quite a while because while he doesn't always put on stellar matches, they don't tend to be diabolical either.

True, Cena is good and has passion, but he doesn't have the drawing power of say, Austin (with the exception of women and children) who was the biggest star ever IMHO. Also, Cena isn't as mainstream as Austin or The Rock were and I think it's hurting the WWE that he has been champ almost non-stop for about a week short of 2 years!

Mr.Nice Guy

Minto wrote:

True, Cena is good and has passion, but he doesn't have the drawing power of say, Austin (with the exception of women and children) who was the biggest star ever IMHO. Also, Cena isn't as mainstream as Austin or The Rock were and I think it's hurting the WWE that he has been champ almost non-stop for about a week short of 2 years!

I see what you're saying but who else is there to carry the company? He's their biggest seller of merchandise and the kids and girls love him. He's a good guy to have as the face of the company (no pun intended).

Minto

I think Edge could carry the company, but he's at his best as a heel. The same goes for Carlito. I guess really thinking about it WWE can't replace Cena just yet. I'd love to see Flair as WWE champ for a while again. He could carry the belt for a while and then give it back to Cena (or Michaels, should he win at 'Mania), just to freshen things up again. I think Punk could do the job as champ, the crowd loves him and he's good in the ring and at promos, but the problem with him is he is still a bit green (in terms of WWExperience as opposed to World title experience).

Vince135792003

Minto wrote:

True, Cena is good and has passion, but he doesn't have the drawing power of say, Austin!

But I mean God who has?! Just because Cena's not an Austin level draw, does not mean that he's not a big draw.

He's been on top for quite a while now and you could definitely make the argument he's one of their top 5 biggest babyface draws after Hogan, Rock and Austin. It really hits you when you go to the WWE shows what a superstar he is to many, especially kids. From what I've seen, many are there just to see him. The rest is just filler.

I don't think its hurting the WWE either his length on top. Its the opposite in fact and thats why he's champ! He's still making a lot of money for the company and when it begins to dry up, then is the time to take the belt off him.

It took them quite a while to find a guy like John Cena. A new superstar that drew people. So once you got him, you milk him for all he's worth.

kentonbomb

well we all know that lashley,batista and hogan were the WORST ever don't we

nacho libre

Chris Benoit and William Regal.

It is a pleasure to watch these two guys in a match against each other. It's a shame Regal has not been utilized of late.

Karmafaerie

Hey Mister Nice Guy, I'll admitt that Cenas second match against Umaga was pretty good.
But the first one was diabolical!
Did he even pull off a single move in the whole match?
All he did was lie there and get hit for twenty minutes, and then roll up Umaga.
Even the Cena fans in the arena were booing that!

Mr.Nice Guy

Karmafaerie wrote:

Hey Mister Nice Guy, I'll admitt that Cenas second match against Umaga was pretty good.
But the first one was diabolical!
Did he even pull off a single move in the whole match?
All he did was lie there and get hit for twenty minutes, and then roll up Umaga.
Even the Cena fans in the arena were booing that!

Eh? Cena was beaten down to make Umaga look like a monster. To say it was diabolical is pretty laughable and is out of step with most fan's thoughts. Here's what Dave Meltzer wrote about Cena and Umaga's match at New Year's Revolution:

This was a total Southern style monster vs. pretty boy match. Umaga beat him down almost the entire match. In the end Cena got a quick comeback, but Umaga took back over. The finish was Umaga charging into the corner but Cena got his feet up and Cena schoolboyed him for the pin. Basic match and good for what it was.

Hardly diabolical. Here is fan feedback on the match from the Observer:

I'm going to focus my comments to John Cena vs. Umaga, which I thought was AWESOME. Cena has mastered the babyface match psychology and he was outstanding in this contest. Umaga played the monster heel perfectly, too. I'll comment on some things that people had problems with during the match. Cena not being able to FU Umaga, even though he could Big Show and Viscera actually worked, because Umaga gave Cena so much damage that no one else has. The finish was great too. Cena was destroyed but battled back and came off as super tough. Cena was able to get the lucky flash pin and survive this contest. It also sets up the rematch perfectly with the question, can Cena hit the FU? I love this feud and I LOVE THAT MATCH.

I think Cena/Umaga should continue to feud for a while as I really enjoyed the main event

I figured that WWE was going to have Cena and Umaga end in a non finish
of some sort. I was wrong. Ok match for what it was. Umaga does do
some neat stuff for a man his size I must admit.

Cena/Umaga was better than expected and well thought out. Cena getting the "garbage" pin keeps Umaga strong, but gives Cena the first pin on Umaga and keeps the belt on the right waist. The only other possibility was a DQ/COR finish which would have killed the crowd.

Cena vs Umaga held my interest the entire bout and I thought it was a good match. The finish was the right one as Umaga doesn't deserve the belt just yet and the way he lost keeps him strong.

The main event was a great throwback, with an ending I did not see coming at all that kept Umaga strong and Cena looking good. Cena had a small mix of boos, but he was insanely over. It was fun seeing the crowd get hyped for Cena's comeback only to be deflated every time Umage no sold them.

The main event I largely knew what to expect again from the Cena-Umaga house show match I saw live, and they worked just as well here on PPV. Cena's strength is his selling and his facials, and that's a perfect match for a guy like Umaga. They work so well together, with Umaga just no-selling
everything Cena threw at him and destroying Cena much of the way. Many will question the ending, but I thought it was a great way to beat Umaga while keeping him strong for re-matches down the line.

And as you yourself acknowledged the follow-up match at the Royal Rumble was even better.

As I say, the Cena hatred is getting tiresome. He's not a poor wrestler, he has been putting on compelling matches. He has been gradually improving and deserves credit for that.

Out of the three world champions right now he is definitely the most able wrestler.

Karmafaerie

prowrestling.about.com wrote:

With the exception of Triple H’s injury, there is nothing on this show that anyone will remember in a month.

Professor Wrestling wrote:

WWE Title Match: John Cena (c) vs. Umaga

What Should Happen: WWE has really done an admirable job building Umaga into an unstoppable monster. Remember, this guy (real name Eddie Fatu) used to wrestle with Rosey in Three Minute Warning, and was pretty bland. This Umaga thing is a nice gimmick, but should he wear the belt? Can monsters prosper with the gold? Maybe not. But on the other hand, what has Cena truly done for the belt? The jury is out on that one, which makes it monstrous food for thought.


What Will Happen: WWE doesn't have the guts to crown Umaga champ right now. Cena will win.


What Did Happen: Cena pinned Umaga cleanly to retain his belt. Gutless. What's the sense of having an unbeatable monster if he's beaten before a huge event like WrestleMania? I scratch my head.

my.impactwrestling.com wrote:

Both wrestlers worked hard and it may not have been a wrestling classic but it was a very good match. Umaga looked strong all through the match, sadly that wasn't the case at the end of the show. The match was good but why build up Umaga for so long and have him lose to such a weak move as a roll up.

I can understand that it was done so that they can say Umaga made a mistake by taking his eyes of Cena, but the finish would have been a lot better had Cena FU'ed Umaga 3 times to win so that both wrestlers come out looking strong.

DeV&#8217 wrote: »

Umaga was dominating Cena during most of the match. Cena tried getting some offense in but it mostly came down to Umaga being too heavy to lift or knock down. Unlike his looks would say, Umaga can actually wrestle. His gimmick doesn’t allow a lot of it though. A lot of people are starting to dislike Cena. They’re saying that he can’t wrestle and there’s a lot of other negative things they say about him. I think Cena can wrestle, I disagree on that part. However, I do think that the current Cena is getting boring. You can put him in a 8 vs. 1 match and he will still win. And that IS annoying me. They need to do something different with Cena to make him interesting again. The match itself was ok, nothing special. I liked how they had Umaga dominating mostly, because when you look at him he simply looks strong and tough. You can’t have Cena beat him easily. The crowd mostly digs Cena though, so I don’t expect a change soon.

oratory.rajah.com wrote:

This was definitely a decent match. Umaga busted out some new moves and Cena played his part very well, acting as if the odds were indeed stacked very highly against him. But the finish was very underwhelming and it was pretty unremarkable on the whole.

IYH Wrestling Radio wrote:

Unfortunately the match consisted almost entirely of Umaga dominating Cena, leaving Cena unable to much but lay on the mat, and grimace in pain, although each man played his part well. Despite the good in ring work, the two couldn’t overcome the mediocre booking as the match ended without a big comeback from Cena, and instead ended with a quick roll up giving him the win.

That took me all of two three minutes, I could have given you a hell of a lot more, and from bigger sources, but I'm really not bothered, as you can find quotes on the Internet to agree and disagree with anything.

I'll agree that Cena is better than either Batista or Lashley, but that doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't be champion.
And don't forget, the Raw champion is a hell of a lot more important than either the Smackdown or especially the ECW champ.

This is the last I'm gonna say on the matter.
There are a hell of a lot of wrestlers out there who are in a better position to be champ, and IMO Cena would benefit a lot from having the weight of the title off of his shoulders so that he could spend a year developing his game and then come back into the title scene, as he definitely has the ability, just needs it fine tuned!

Mr.Nice Guy

Karmafaerie wrote:

That took me all of two three minutes, I could have given you a hell of a lot more, and from bigger sources, but I'm really not bothered, as you can find quotes on the Internet to agree and disagree with anything.

With respect, I gave you quotes from the most well-respected of wrestling sites whereas God knows where you dug those up from.

Karmafaerie wrote:

I'll agree that Cena is better than either Batista or Lashley, but that doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't be champion.

The view that Cena shouldn't be champion is not a "fact" but an opinon and one I would disagree with. He is the most over guy in the company right now and shifts the most merchandise. Shouldn't the top babyface be in one of the main events?

Karmafaerie wrote:

This is the last I'm gonna say on the matter.
There are a hell of a lot of wrestlers out there who are in a better position to be champ, and IMO Cena would benefit a lot from having the weight of the title off of his shoulders so that he could spend a year developing his game and then come back into the title scene, as he definitely has the ability, just needs it fine tuned!

No one right now is in a better position to be champ. The challenger to his title is a guy that has been around for 15 + years. There is no up-and-comer in wrestling right now that comes close to his popularity.

You can continue to denounce the guy and bash him along with such knowledgeable minds as 'DeV' (?) but you do the guy a disservice and I think that is the opinion of the majority.

Karmafaerie

Like I already said, I'm dropping this, I've no problem with you disagreeing with me.
You're the one who seems offended that so many people don't like Cena.
That's our oppinion, and we're as entitled to it as you are yours.

I deliberately looked for quotes from both blogs, and journalists, because I wanted to show you that the fans aren't over with the match.
Unless of course DeV's oppinion isn't as valid as yours?!:rolleyes:
I don't know about you, but I decide myself whether a match was good IMO, I don't wait to see what the critics think before making my mind up.
As I said in my previous post, I could quite easily find you plenty of quotes from wrestling columnists about that match, but I'm not even remotely bothered to go trawling through the reviews and articles I've read since January.

I'm sorry that the opinions of actual wrestling fans aren't what matter to you.

And to be honest, I find it more than a bit funny to hear somebody denouncing the validity of quotes, when the first one you posted is by "Dave Meltzer"!:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's a guy with the admiration and respect of the wrestling comunity!

I really am going to just ignore this thread now, because it has gone ridiculously off track.
The fact remains though, that I personally don't like Cena.
And I'm far, far, from alone in that regard.
Maybe you do, but that doesn't give you the right to tell me that I should like him.
I don't.
He's not as good as so many others out there, and he could sell all the t-shirts in the world but it still wouldn't make me entertained!
From a marketing standpoint, he's great, but in an entertainment sense, he's not at the level he could one day become, and I think that he should be allowed to develop, and not put through the same match over, and over, and over, again!
Goodnight.

Fozzy

I actually agree with a good bit of what you've said, but I've come around to slightly liking Cena now. I can put up with him a lot easier than I could a year ago. I think part of that is because I've given up hope of him actually entertaining me as much as the champ should. But I have to correct you on one thing!

Karmafaerie wrote:

And to be honest, I find it more than a bit funny to hear somebody denouncing the validity of quotes, when the first one you posted is by "Dave Meltzer"!:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's a guy with the admiration and respect of the wrestling comunity!

Meltzer is the editor of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, basically the number one guy in wrestling journalism. I don't always completely agree on his assessment of some matches (that Cena/Umaga match being one), but he's definitely got the respect of the wrestling community

Mr.Nice Guy

Karmafaerie wrote:

I deliberately looked for quotes from both blogs, and journalists, because I wanted to show you that the fans aren't over with the match.
Unless of course DeV's oppinion isn't as valid as yours?!:rolleyes:

Well I took quotes from readers who actually understand and follow wrestling whereas it seems you took views from people whose mindset is...

"LOL Cena sux. I h8 his matches. Triple H is da best wrstler evr. D-X rulz. ROFL."

Now those people are entitled to their views of course but I doubt they reflect majority opinion. If they did Cena would be getting booed out of arenas left, right and centre whereas the only time I remember him getting stick lately was in LA and those crowds are useless.

Karmafaerie wrote:

I don't know about you, but I decide myself whether a match was good IMO, I don't wait to see what the critics think before making my mind up.
As I said in my previous post, I could quite easily find you plenty of quotes from wrestling columnists about that match, but I'm not even remotely bothered to go trawling through the reviews and articles I've read since January.

Um, didn't you just do that? I don't think your view reflects the will of the majority. I cited the most reputable wrestling site when making that view while you seemed to cite a few dodgy sites and blogs.

Karmafaerie wrote:

I'm sorry that the opinions of actual wrestling fans aren't what matter to you.

But...wasn't I the one who brought up fan opinions and the first one to find feedback to the match?

Karmafaerie wrote:

And to be honest, I find it more than a bit funny to hear somebody denouncing the validity of quotes, when the first one you posted is by "Dave Meltzer"!:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's a guy with the admiration and respect of the wrestling comunity!

I would say he has their respect seeing as he is able to make a living off of the wrestling community!

Karmafaerie wrote:

I really am going to just ignore this thread now, because it has gone ridiculously off track.
The fact remains though, that I personally don't like Cena.
And I'm far, far, from alone in that regard.
Maybe you do, but that doesn't give you the right to tell me that I should like him.
I don't.

I won't be losing any sleep over who you do or don't like. I find it telling though that you were unable to answer my basic question, "who should be the champion instead of him?" It is easy to criticise isn't it?

Karmafaerie wrote:

He's not as good as so many others out there, and he could sell all the t-shirts in the world but it still wouldn't make me entertained!
From a marketing standpoint, he's great, but in an entertainment sense, he's not at the level he could one day become, and I think that he should be allowed to develop, and not put through the same match over, and over, and over, again!
Goodnight.

He seems to be entertaining most people. Even those who despise the guy get into his matches. But hey, you, 'DeV' and the LA fans can hate him all you want.

The rest of us will judge him on a fair basis and will look forward to a good match with HBK at WM23. :cool:

fatal

Fozzy wrote:

I actually agree with a good bit of what you've said, but I've come around to slightly liking Cena now. I can put up with him a lot easier than I could a year ago. I think part of that is because I've given up hope of him actually entertaining me as much as the champ should. But I have to correct you on one thing!

Your right,hes not as bad as he used to be....maybe because hes added another move or two to his old collection of 3
Only one more week of him being champ anyway.Im looking forward to great main event WRESTLING matches for a change

fatal

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The rest of us will judge him on a fair basis and will look forward to a good match with HBK at WM23. :cool:

.........only because shawn seems to be able to have good matches with anyone else,nothing to do with Cena's talent(or lack of!);)

Vince135792003

fatal wrote:

.........only because shawn seems to be able to have good matches with anyone else,nothing to do with Cena's talent(or lack of!);)

John Cena is not Shawn Michaels and he never will be.

But for the last 12 months, he's been in a lot of very good matches with different people. I don't think its been down to the other guy all the time.

cenas boy

john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena john cena

do like hardy and michaels too.love when him and HHH are together.pity he is injured

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

John Cena is not Shawn Michaels and he never will be.

But for the last 12 months, he's been in a lot of very good matches with different people. I don't think its been down to the other guy all the time.

Also, what he lacks compared to a Bret Hart or Shawn Michael's in the ring he compensates for with his mic skills. He is one of the most charimastic wrestlers on the WWE roster at the moment in my opinion. I enjoy his promos. Perhaps i'm easily amused, though;)

fatal

nacho libre wrote:

Also, what he lacks compared to a Bret Hart or Shawn Michael's in the ring he compensates for with his mic skills. He is one of the most charimastic wrestlers on the WWE roster at the moment in my opinion. I enjoy his promos. Perhaps i'm easily amused, though;)

I find his promos alot better than his wrestling.His promos have somewhat amused at times in the past.Having said that,he certainly is no Rock on the mic

Fozzy

I liked Cena's promos back when he was a heel. They were funny. Last year he just implied that his opponent was gay in every promo and it always sounded real childish. I don't think he's called HBK gay yet, it's probably part of why I don't dislike him much anymore

He does lack a good catchphrase. Good catchphrases always help a wrestler get over on the mic. The Rock was just the king of catchphrases, you could probably list off ten without thinking

nacho libre

Yes. Rock was without question one of the best at cutting a promo. I watched some of his again recently on you tube. I got a great laugh out of them. His recent promo on Raw was excellent too. It just goes to show how much they miss him right now.

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

The Rock was just the king of catchphrases

He was the king of promos full stop. Virtually everyone on the WWE roster right now looks like an amateur on the mic compared to him.

ec18

rock was the best at promos no question

Double C

Cena has his "You cant see me" thing, and his Joe rip-off "The champ is here", but he does lack something like "The millions ..............................................................and millions etc", definitely my favourite Rock catchphrase.