What is the Leadership style of Bertie Aherne?

jetsonx

I often wonder how Bertie is a leader at all.

He just seems so mild mannered . In fact he seems like a benign (but extremely cunning) auld fella up at the bar of your local pub on a Friday night enjoying a few pints while exchanging witisms with other patrons. He never did strike me as having qualities of a leader.

The guy cant even make a speech without reading it. So my question is what is his leadership stye?

ballooba

jetsonx wrote:

The guy cant even make a speech without reading it.

Even at that he mumbles and bumbles.

The guy missed his calling as a used car salesman.

InFront

I don't know, I'd say he's an excellent leader; he's probably more of a dictator than a delegator, however. There are lots of criticisms for him in terms of his party's ability to manage the smooth running of the machinery of state - especially in justice, health and education - but I think his leadership ability cannot really be criticised.

However I don't think he gets that by being Mr Nice Guy, I imagine he's a tough boss.

monument

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist".

Dave!

jetsonx wrote:

I often wonder how Bertie is a leader at all.

He just seems so mild mannered . In fact he seems like a benign (but extremely cunning) auld fella up at the bar of your local pub on a Friday night enjoying a few pints while exchanging witisms with other patrons. He never did strike me as having qualities of a leader.

Not to say that he's not genuinely like that (he could well be), but he has worked hard over the years to pronounce that image and portray himself as 'one of de fellas down de pub'.

That's why he keeps getting elected, and it's also why he is Fianna Fáil's strongest asset. He's not a threat, harmless, and the kind of bloke you'd have a pint with.

On an international stage, he has the same sort of image... Compare him with the images portrayed by other presidents and prime ministers! Chirac is a sweet old man. Putin is strong, powerful, not to be fooked with. George Bush will protect America (and he's a good Christian, too!).

Bertie is your drinkin buddy He makes Ireland look inviting, TBH, from an international point of view.

Also, imagine Michael McDowell was the Taoiseach. The image that others have of Ireland would be different I imagine.

It's also interesting to consider what Mary McAleese does for the image. My parents are mad about her cos she's a lady, she's educated, intelligent -- she has DIGNITY. She's great, lol.

Sleepy

evasive?

TBH, that's the word that comes to mind when I hear Bertie's name...

solas

I wouldn't consider him evasive, not in the sense that most politicians are.
Maybe on the exterior he doesn't appear to be a strong communicator but I'd wager that when it comes down to it and in one on one discussions he's a lot more emphatic than most of the pole up their arse politicians. A kindly diplomat if you will.

solas

DaveMcG wrote:

It's also interesting to consider what Mary McAleese does for the image. My parents are mad about her cos she's a lady, she's educated, intelligent -- she has DIGNITY. She's great, lol.

sorta had to comment. Sometimes I forget we have a president and her name is Mary McAleese. It will be a long while before any president comes anywhere close to matching the sense of dignity warmth and compassion Mary Robinson possesed and equally shared with each of us on this island.
I think it's true that the self image protrayed by our leaders reflects how we feel as a nation nd its always nice to have a good one up top.

brianthebard

solas wrote:

I wouldn't consider him evasive, not in the sense that most politicians are.
Maybe on the exterior he doesn't appear to be a strong communicator but I'd wager that when it comes down to it and in one on one discussions he's a lot more emphatic than most of the pole up their arse politicians. A kindly diplomat if you will.

What about those "loans" we heard about a while back. Wasn't he quite evasive on that topic?

solas

brianthebard wrote:

What about those "loans" we heard about a while back. Wasn't he quite evasive on that topic?

funny. I think if it were any other politician it would have been a big deal. To think of the brown envelopes that passed hands in the past and maybe still do and undoubtedly containing a whole lot more than 39,000 euro.
I don't think it was a case of him being evasive, I'm not sure a few thousand euro would be considered enough to buy anyone anymore.

(and he did repay the 'loan' in full with interest lol)

Some commentators however, maintained that they showed the Irish people drew a distinction between the Ahern affair and previous financial scandals involving Irish politicians, both on the basis of sums received and the fact that the Taoiseach had used them to repay loans, rather than for self-enrichment, unlike former Taoiseach Charles Haughey for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertie_Ahern#Admission_of_undeclared_payments

jetsonx

but his leadership style is....

ballooba

solas wrote:

I don't think it was a case of him being evasive, I'm not sure a few thousand euro would be considered enough to buy anyone anymore.

Of course he's evasive and Rory O'Hanlon makes sure he never has to answer any difficult questions. Read the Dail Sketch in the Irish Times once in a while for a funny take on it. Latest was when he was asked on monday/tuesday about the Seamus Brennan press conference last week. The one where Seamus denounced auction politics.

purple'n'gold

His leadership style is basically be nice to everyone and remain mister popular. He is fundamentally a chancer and just got lucky because the economy took off at the right time for him. I won’t say anything about Northern Ireland, we will have to wait and see.

solas

i had to do a little google to see how to compare, this is as much as i got on leadership styles


(a) Participative (democratic)
This type of style involves the leader including one or more employees in on the decision making process (determining what to do and how to do it). However, the leader maintains the final decision making authority. Using this style is not a sign of weakness, rather it is a sign of strength that your employees will respect.

This is normally used when you have part of the information, and your employees have other parts. Note that a leader is not expected to know everything -- this is why you employ knowledgeable and skillful employees. Using this style is of mutual benefit -- it allows them to become part of the team and allows you to make better decisions.



versus

(b) Authoritarian (autocratic)
This style is used when the leader tells her employees what she wants done and how she wants it done, without getting the advice of her followers. Some of the appropriate conditions to use it is when you have all the information to solve the problem, you are short on time, and your employees are well motivated.

Some people tend to think of this style as a vehicle for yelling, using demeaning language, and leading by threats and abusing their power. This is not the authoritarian style...rather it is an abusive, unprofessional style called bossing people around. it has no place in a leaders repertoire.

The authoritarian style should normally only be used on rare occasions. If you have the time and want to gain more commitment and motivation from your employees, then you should use the participative style.

and...

9c) Delegative (free reign)
In this style, the leader allows the employees to make the decision. However, the leader is still responsible for the decisions that are made. This is used when employees are able to analyze the situation and determine what needs to be done and how to do it. You cannot do everything! You must set priorities and delegate certain tasks.

This is not a style to use so that you can blame others when things go wrong, rather this is a style to be used when you have the full trust and confidence in the people below you. Do not be afraid to use it, however, use it wisely!

NOTE: Also known as lais…sez faire (or lais…ser faire) which is the noninterference in the affairs of others. [French : laissez, second person pl. imperative of laisser, to let, allow + faire, to do.]

jetsonx

wow, I can't believe this - no one seems to know what type of leader our
Taoiseach is...

hes a leader who avoids conflict at all costs...hes a leader who never speaks his mind...hes a leader who never makes proclamations of his "vision" for the country..how would you define this leadership style?

monument

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"... he added to this by confusing the **** out of them.

brianthebard

jetsonx wrote:

wow, I can't believe this - no one seems to know what type of leader our
Taoiseach is...

hes a leader who avoids conflict at all costs...hes a leader who never speaks his mind...hes a leader who never makes proclamations of his "vision" for the country..how would you define this leadership style?

Are you looking for a formal name for it? There are three main choices as far as I'm aware, Laissez-faire, charisma, and micromanager. Imo people have already defined his leadership as a mix between charisma and inability. I certainly don't feel that he leads the nation as a whole. I don't feel any connection to this government and very little of a connection to this nation. He may appear to be a leader to the FF crowd, but imo he is very much a follower of trends, popularity and to a degree Europe. Power has been taken from the national government because they didn't want to have too much in the first place. Did you want to define his leadership style??

lostexpectation

well if you lump dick roache performance in with berite their the other day FF could be called the 'sneering' party

Lou.m

I think his leadership style is democracy does matter he appointed two people without elections recenlty as you all know and there was a resignation over it.
Ever wonder why our president got a second term without an election?

That is his style democracy is not needed.

Or that is just my opinion for what it is worth anyway.

mickd

solas wrote:

It will be a long while before any president comes anywhere close to matching the sense of dignity warmth and compassion Mary Robinson possesed and equally shared with each of us on this island.

Well said, Couldn't agree more

DadaKopf

jetsonx wrote:

I often wonder how Bertie is a leader at all.

He just seems so mild mannered . In fact he seems like a benign (but extremely cunning) auld fella up at the bar of your local pub on a Friday night enjoying a few pints while exchanging witisms with other patrons. He never did strike me as having qualities of a leader.

The guy cant even make a speech without reading it. So my question is what is his leadership stye?

Do you really mean 'leadership style', or 'source of support', in other words, source of legitimacy?

I think a lot of his appeal is charismatic, and he derives his power from the Fianna Fail party membership and people who associate themselves with the FF tribe, and from people who just plain apathetic - they'll support him because he's there.

This charisma, IMO, gives him legitimacy to run the government, and gives the government legitimacy to run the country. This must explain how (outside those who have directly benefited from immediate relations with him) people can support someone intimately connected - allegedly - with corruption.

But, ya know, this is the case with lots of political leaders.

As for his leadership style - how he runs government - he seems collegiate enough. He holds a cabinet together, and we haven't seen the sort of cabinet shenanigans you get in the UK. But there's an article in the Indo today about Bertie's policy-change announced in his speech there recently. So maybe he's not so pally with the cabinet afterall.

brianthebard

I imagine there are demands being put on him from within the party and cabinet with regards the elections, that could be a source of tension for a wee while.

ronbyrne2005

A sit on the fence and hope for the best while fire fighting where necessary style. He's a chancer of the highest order afraid to take on any of the unions or to make tough descisions unless theres a general consensus on an issue. He's obviously cunning and probably ruthless within his party. Cant think of anything he has shown real leadership on, even Northern Ireland peace process was well under way before he got involved.

solas

DadaKopf wrote:

I think a lot of his appeal is charismatic, and he derives his power from the Fianna Fail party membership and people who associate themselves with the FF tribe, and from people who just plain apathetic - they'll support him because he's there.

I feel like I'm collusion with myself now. I'd probably consider myself one of the 'plain apathetic' although I haven't supported FF in any of the previous elections and voting isnt high on my list of priorities. I thought I'd expand on why, .
Ireland has a coalition Govt, therefore all elected representatives have a voice and influence in the dail, in that sense Bertie is just a figure head who imo is just 'chairing the board'. Parties aren't fighting tooth and nail to get in to power as they're practically gauranteed a place anyway and none of them seem to be promising anything new or removed from what has been on offer (or what they already are in a position to offer) for the last decade. Even if a new taoiseach is elected all that really changes is the name plaque on the table and everything motors on as before.

The only party that is offering any kind of changes that even remotely make me take a second glance is Sinn Fein and only because they are that much different.
Imagine Gerry Adams as Taoiseach

brianthebard

solas wrote:

I feel like I'm collusion with myself now. I'd probably consider myself one of the 'plain apathetic' although I haven't supported FF in any of the previous elections and voting isnt high on my list of priorities. I thought I'd expand on why, .
Ireland has a coalition Govt, therefore all elected representatives have a voice and influence in the dail, in that sense Bertie is just a figure head who imo is just 'chairing the board'. Parties aren't fighting tooth and nail to get in to power as they're practically gauranteed a place anyway and none of them seem to be promising anything new or removed from what has been on offer (or what they already are in a position to offer) for the last decade. Even if a new taoiseach is elected all that really changes is the name plaque on the table and everything motors on as before.

This seems to suggest that you think a coalition government consists of all the parties?? The taoiseach has considerable powers, look up the constitution. Also the idea that parties are guaranteed a place in power, or that a seat in the Dáil means they have power or equal power in government as the cabinet is flawed.

solas

brianthebard wrote:

This seems to suggest that you think a coalition government consists of all the parties?? The taoiseach has considerable powers, look up the constitution. Also the idea that parties are guaranteed a place in power, or that a seat in the Dáil means they have power or equal power in government as the cabinet is flawed.

no, as I understand it the Dail has considerable power, while a coalition govt merely represents to me that there are no absolutes with regard to political authority.

re the dail: It effectively has power to pass any law it wishes, and to nominate and remove the Taoiseach (head of government).

brianthebard

The Dail encompasses both the coalition government and members of opposition, so yes it does have considerable power.A coalition government merely means two or more parties had to come together to form a majority government. Irish history is littered with them, they are quite a common occurance in countries that have proportional representation. I guess you are right that there are no absolutes, but surely that's a good thing?

solas

brianthebard wrote:

I guess you are right that there are no absolutes, but surely that's a good thing?

Yes, I'm very happy that we have a system that enables power sharing, it opens up oppertunities that may not otherwise be possible and encourages participation and debate from all sides of the bench.

solas

thought I should come back and clarify, (apologies if it comes across as confusing, I did warn you I felt like I was in collusion with myself ) my apathy is with regard to the topic of Berties leadership and FF in general, I don't consider them as a kind of autocratic ruling party and consequently not so concerned about Bertie's 'leadership' style.
As 'chairman of the board' goes, he's doing an ok job, I just consider the strength of all the 'employees' is what maintains the balance and a good thing it is too.