Vista Full versus Vista OEM.

Gadgetman496

Can anyone tell me for sure what the difference between the full & OEM versions of Vista are?

My understanding is that the OEM version does not come with
1. Fancy packaging
2. Manuals
3. Support?

The OEM version of Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Eng OEM DVD 32bit is retailing @ €97.50
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=330707

The full version of Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Eng DVD 32bit is retailing @ €309
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=330354

Surely the box & the book don't cost €211.50

If you had both disc's on your desk. what is the real difference?



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Capt'n Midnight

The difference is the License.

You can only legally buy OEM with a new motherboard, usually as part of a new computer. You can't move the OEM to another PC ever. If you upgrade an OEM with a retail upgrade, then the retail upgrade can't be moved to another PC ever.

Gadgetman496

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The difference is the License.

You can only legally buy OEM with a new motherboard, usually as part of a new computer.

Ok Capt'n,

this is part of the confusion though, Komplett will sell it off the shelf on its own (no need to buy Mobo or PC)

Aside from that, you are saying that it can go on one machine & one machine only? is there any restrictions on re-installs on the original install machine?

Capt'n Midnight

Komplett shouldn't sell it without the motherboard.

IMHO Microsoft should lean on it's distributors over stuff like this, otherwise they are just criminalising the customers who don't want to pay the full Microsoft tax.

IMHO Microsoft should also lean on it's out sourced support providers to make sure they are enforcing the OEM license. Fraud is a word that comes to mind.

My main gripe here is that they have gained market share by illegal practices and turning a blind eye to piracy / casual copying and yet still insist on charging honest customers far far more than those who break the EULA's.

There just doesn't seem to be any incentive for a customer to be honest. And like our current lack of traffic enforcement, encourages people to ignore the rules.


Back in the past the retail customer got an older version of windows, the final OEM versions of both windows 95 and 98 having features not available to honest customers who paid full price. At least they seem to have stopped that.

/RANT

Gadgetman496

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Komplett shouldn't sell it without the motherboard.

Surely Komplett are a too well established company to be flaunting with elegal practices?

They will sell any of the OEM OS's on there own now.

This did not used to be the case, as Capt'n said, you used to have to purchase hardware too, but not anymore apparently.

Maybe Komplett have some arrangement with Microsoft?

Why would it be a bad idea to provide these OS's at a reasonable price to the legitimate end user, Capt'n?

aidan_walsh

Why would it be a bad idea to provide these OS's at a reasonable price to the legitimate end user, Capt'n?

He never said it was. However, licensing puts that responsibility squarely in the hands of Microsoft, not Komplett or anyone else.

Gadgetman496

aidan_walsh wrote:

He never said it was.

No aidan, he didn't actually say that but.....
If you only wanted to buy the OS and if you could only buy the OEM by means of purchasing hardware too? (as Capt'n suggested) you would be forced to purchase the full OS @ a cost of €309 as opposed to €97.50...

That is a fair price difference if the only real drawback with the OEM version is that it is tied to one machine?

You could buy a WD 500GB MyBook & tank up the car with the balance

aidan_walsh

If you only wanted to buy the OS and if you could only buy the OEM by means of purchasing hardware too? (as Capt'n suggested) you would be forced to purchase the full OS @ a cost of €309 as opposed to €97.50...

That is a fair price difference if the only real drawback with the OEM version is that it is tied to one machine?

Yes, and its Microsoft's decision. If you don't like it, don't buy Vista. The OEM license is designed for people who are upgrading their hardware at the same time as buying a new copy of Windows, not as a means for people to get a cheap upgrade whenever they want to. Failing that, you have Upgrade edition disks.

dazftw

This has explained alot to me which has made me relaxed about buying it.. which I did about 20 minutes ago I bought the OEM version for my new pc im building!

If it gets tied to the mobo thats fine with me I wont be upgrading that like!

Its not tied to anything else? Like CPU Hard Drive Graphics Card?

8T8

DeafVision wrote:

This has explained alot to me which has made me relaxed about buying it.. which I did about 20 minutes ago I bought the OEM version for my new pc im building!

If it gets tied to the mobo thats fine with me I wont be upgrading that like!

Its not tied to anything else? Like CPU Hard Drive Graphics Card?

No you should be able to change those as long as the mobo doesn't though I do not believe anyone has done any hard testing just how tolerant it is if you change everything but the motherboard however that is an unlikely scenario for the majority of people (anyway if need be you can re-activate the OEM version with the failed mobo/replaced excuse to a MS rep over the phone).

chrislad

As far as I know, the OEM has be to purchased with any hardware, not just a motherboard. I believe Komplett throw in a data cable or something with OEMs to make it legal. Correct me if I'm wrong.

seamus

The idea of an OEM licence is that it is supposed to be a copy of Windows supplied with a brand new PC from a vendor. Microsoft provides this at such a cheap cost because
a) They don't have to provide support, the PC builder does
b) It gives them a heftier market share when the likes of Dell can supply Windows OSes on their machines cheaper than buying the OS new.

OEM licences were never intended to be used by people who are building their own machines, or for installing the OS on an existing machine that's getting an upgrade of hardware. If you read the OEM EULA it details the specifics of how the licence may be used.

The old XP EULA defined a system as being its motherboard. That is, if you had Windows installed on an OEM licence, you could change whatever hardware you wanted, except the motherboard. If you changed the motherboard (excluding warranty replacement), then it was considered a new PC, and the OEM licence was gone. I assume the Vista OEM EULA is the same. I've yet to read it.

Inquitus

So to summarise.

You can pay 600 euros or more for Vista Ultimate and have a clear conscience.

You can pay 175 euros for an OEM Version and be wracked with morality issues

Either way you can move that license around as much as you like do to the oblidging people a MS CS in India.

Inqui

Capt'n Midnight

Inquitus wrote:

You can pay 600 euros or more for Vista Ultimate and have a clear conscience.

You can pay 175 euros for an OEM Version and be wracked with morality issues

Or you can pay 600 euros for a bare bones entry level PC with Vista Ultimate preinstalled.

If you live in the good ole US of A and have an old copy of windows 2000 or get one on ebay then then the windows vista ultimate upgrade license is about $250 - so you could easily get the THREE copies of VISTA for $400 ( €300 in real money )

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/familydiscount.mspx#qualify

Windows Vista Family Discount

Enjoy the security, performance, and entertainment capabilities of Windows Vista throughout your home. Purchase the Windows Vista Ultimate retail boxed product, and you can upgrade up to two additional PCs in your household to Windows Vista Home Premium for only $49.99 ($59.99 CAD) each.* Order online, and within minutes you’ll be ready to upgrade your computers at over 60% off the estimated retail price!*

Sir Oxman

Seriously I don't understand some peoples objection to another person buying an OEM Vista.
If it is on sale as OEM to me I will buy it head and shoulders everytime above an overpriced 'boxed' version.
If the 'boxed' version is the one I must have, I'll save my pennies and buy it.
Othyerwise OEm will do very nicely thank you.

Where is the problem?

aidan_walsh

delah wrote:

Where is the problem?

The license agreement.

seamus

delah wrote:

Where is the problem?

Without getting into my own personal opinion of the cost of the software, if you're going to "cheat" on the licence, then you may as well just download a cracked version and save yourself €150.

It's the same as paying €2k to insure your fiesta, only you told them it was a 1.1 not a 1.4. Why pay the money when you intend on voiding the contract?

Of course, it's easy to be righteous. I do suspect that at some point a vendor will work out an easy way to force consumers to stick to their licences, and although cracked versions will appear, they'll be crippled and painful to use.

Capt'n Midnight

seamus wrote:

Of course, it's easy to be righteous. I do suspect that at some point a vendor will work out an easy way to force consumers to stick to their licences, and although cracked versions will appear, they'll be crippled and painful to use.

Many other vendors with far less resources than microsoft have simple ways to force customers to stick to their licenses.

One I would like to see is the replacement of generic corporate serial numbers with unique serials per license. Would make counting licenses and producing proof of licenses sooo easy. Yes it would make deployments more difficult, but corporates have the resources to write the serial on a sticker on the machine or even put it in a text file along with the machines serial number. Usual rules on activations.

Since 90% of windows licenses are OEM and many of the rest are corporate volume licenses, it just doesn't make sense to me to have the retail HOME editions priced far above the OEM's.

Dongles are banned in the US ??
But you can now get usb ones - for a company that churns out millions of copies of software a hardware key would not be a major issue or even cost.

dil999

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Komplett shouldn't sell it without the motherboard.

IMHO Microsoft should lean on it's distributors over stuff like this, otherwise they are just criminalising the customers who don't want to pay the full Microsoft tax.

IMHO Microsoft should also lean on it's out sourced support providers to make sure they are enforcing the OEM license. Fraud is a word that comes to mind.

My main gripe here is that they have gained market share by illegal practices and turning a blind eye to piracy / casual copying and yet still insist on charging honest customers far far more than those who break the EULA's.

There just doesn't seem to be any incentive for a customer to be honest. And like our current lack of traffic enforcement, encourages people to ignore the rules.


Back in the past the retail customer got an older version of windows, the final OEM versions of both windows 95 and 98 having features not available to honest customers who paid full price. At least they seem to have stopped that.

/RANT

As far as I am aware, there is no longer an onus to supply acommpanying harware with and OEM version of the O/S. The responsibility is on the end user to comply with the licence agreement.

http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/licensing/faq/downloads/microsoft-windows-oem-eula-changes.doc

Inquitus

seamus wrote:

Without getting into my own personal opinion of the cost of the software, if you're going to "cheat" on the licence, then you may as well just download a cracked version and save yourself €150.

Only thing is a cracked version won't ever update with security patches etc etc, I paid 175 yoyos for my Ultimate OEM Vista. I am happy with it at that price, I as the PC Manufacturer have no issues supporting myself ^^

nearly 700 yoyos in PC World for the same software is a joke.

I know I can upgrade my computer, buy a new one and install it etc and MS CS people in India will be only to happy to oblige. IF MS don;t give a damn about these practices, which clearly they don't, then why should I?

Inqui

seamus

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Many other vendors with far less resources than microsoft have simple ways to force customers to stick to their licenses.

Well this is true. Even Microsoft would prefer someone was running a stolen version of their software than a free version from a competitor.

One I would like to see is the replacement of generic corporate serial numbers with unique serials per license. Would make counting licenses and producing proof of licenses sooo easy. Yes it would make deployments more difficult, but corporates have the resources to write the serial on a sticker on the machine or even put it in a text file along with the machines serial number. Usual rules on activations.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You mean that a corporate customer buys a licence, and then receives X individual keys for use on their machines? It would do more than make deployments difficult IMO
Afaik, a lot of corporates also don't necessarily buy a certain number of clients in their licence. For companies with 100s/thousands of machines, there seems to be a practice of auditing their machine/OS count each year, and then paying MS for that number.

Only thing is a cracked version won't ever update with security patches etc etc,

There are easy enough ways around this if someone is actually interested in keeping their cracked version up to date.

Capt'n Midnight

dil999 wrote:

As far as I am aware, there is no longer an onus to supply acommpanying harware with and OEM version of the O/S. The responsibility is on the end user to comply with the licence agreement.

http://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/licensing/faq/downloads/microsoft-windows-oem-eula-changes.doc

Criminalising the consumer while the reseller no longer has to care.


From that document, again it appears that the user of the full retail version has less rights.

Leased & Rental Hardware. For PCs with Windows XP, prohibitions on renting and leasing have been removed from the OEM Windows XP Product EULA. However, in the retail EULA you may not rent, lease, lend or provide commercial hosting services to third parties.

dil999

While I am not a huge fan of Windows pricing strategy, the responsibility is on the person who breaks the seal on the software package to use it as per the licence they just agreed to. If they don't break the seal they can return the packge for a full refund.

I used the term end user probably incorrectly. In General, there are two people who 'handle' the OEM product. First is the 'system builder' who accepts a system builder OEM licence. When you open the package "you agree that you are a system builder" After the package is open the OS must be installed on a PC/Laptop before its distributed to the the final end user. The end user cannot remove and reinstall.

If you build your own PC then you are both the system builder and the end user.

As someone who occasionaly builds custom PCs for people I need to be able to purchase an OEM licence. And as I might only build 2 or 3 in a year I need to be able to buy them off a reseller like Komplett.

There are people who legimitally purchase and use OEM licences, and need someone to sell them. Just because you can buy the product doesn't mean you have to use it in contravention of the licence agreement

Sir Oxman

Microsoft appear to not give a fig what an OEM Vista buyer does with his/her purchase - it's one more install of their OS, another notch on the bedpost as it were;)

Look at their upgrade discs - does anyone really think they mistakenly left in the workaround whereby you can buy an upgrade disc and actually clean install Vista?

MS don't rigidly enforce their own EULA's in respect to OEM and Upgrade Vista's - with that, I will purchase the cheapest option available suitable for my needs.
With OEM, if needs be I can reinstall if my mobo blows up - with Upgrade I can clean install once I have a legit XP installed first.

Retail buyers beware;)

Gadgetman496

delah wrote:

- with Upgrade I can clean install once I have a legit XP installed first.
Retail buyers beware;)

Not necessary delah,

It is very easy to install an "Upgrade" version of Vista onto a new or wiped HDD & activate it successfully with your key.

No need at all to have an earlier or existing OS installed.

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Sir Oxman

gadgetman496 wrote:

Not necessary delah,

It is very easy to install an "Upgrade" version of Vista onto a new or wiped HDD & activate it successfully with your key.

No need at all to have an earlier or existing OS installed.

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Even better, gadgetman!
I'm off to google that one. Cheers.

mloc

I will purchasing an OEM copy of vista ultimate for a new build soon. I realise it will be motherboard locked, and that's fine with me. Once I can change my CPU at some stage I'm happy.

But Captain M's point is true, if you're just going to break the licensing agreement anyway, why bother even buying the OEM version at all?

Capt'n Midnight

mloc wrote:

But Captain M's point is true, if you're just going to break the licensing agreement anyway, why bother even buying the OEM version at all?

Wasn't me , it were

seamus wrote:

Without getting into my own personal opinion of the cost of the software, if you're going to "cheat" on the licence, then you may as well just download a cracked version and save yourself €150.

mloc

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Wasn't me , it were

Ah, sorry about that!

In that case Seamas is spot on. If you're going to break the license, you become a pirate, and you might as well (in terms of legality) have just downloaded the software illegally in the first place.

mathias

But Captain M's point is true, if you're just going to break the licensing agreement anyway, why bother even buying the OEM version at all?

Updates , thats why !

Gadgetman496

mathias wrote:

Updates , thats why !

Updates are working flawlessly on the earlier mentioned option too!

Absolutely no problems.

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