Wrestlemania 23 Talk Shop

Mossy Monk

What in the **** kind of entrance is this?

Jonny Arson

Well looks like another 6 months of Cena as champ...... making HBK tap to the STFU aint good in my book

Overall I thought it was a disapointing Wrestlemania

Only high points for me was Taker beating Batista and Jeff's leg drop, the rest of the show just dragged and didn't keep my interest.

Best match I thought was Taker/Batista - Taker was out standing and made the match. Cena/Michaels was ok. MITB was good but I felt it could have had more to offer. The rest of the show was average..... Kane/Khali and Melina/Ashley were predictably horrific to watch

Not worth €22 IMO

Mr.Nice Guy

Thought it was a very good Wrestlemania. Cena/HBK was better than OK it was very good. I hope this match now puts to rest this retarded argument that Cena can't wrestle. The guy puts on compelling matches and he held his own tonight with HBK.

Batista/Taker was better than I thought it would be and Batista actually looked motivated which was refreshing. Taker winning was smart. Good stuff.

Lashley/Umaga was pretty predictable but the main draw was the finale and Vinny played it up great as I knew he would. I popped for Trump getting stunned even though it was a stunner similar to Linda's a few years back. (ie awkward)

Benoit took MVP to a very good match (I knew he would) and from what I saw of Money in the Bank it delivered.

Yes there were crappy bits but the good outweighed the bad and that makes it a good Wrestlemania in my book.

kentonbomb

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Nah Kennedy winning makes no sense. Let's go Cena!

dude he's class end of story,i am glad taker won

Vince135792003

I'd give the show a thumbs up. I didn't think it was the best Wresltemania of all time or anything like that but it was a good show.

The matches that everyone thought would be exciting were and the matches that people knew were gonna be bad were at least kept relatively short.

The positives for me were:

-'Taker versus Batista was a great match and it was down to both guys. It had an intensity about it that I loved.

-HBK versus Cena was very good too. I think if it had gone on a little more it would have been better but some of the sequences had me on the edge of my seat.

-The hair match was all about the ending and in that respect it was alot of fun. I thought Umaga was good too and worked really hard.

-The backstage skits, although a little weird were enjoyable too.

The negatives for me:

-This is probably due to the fact of the time I was watching it but the pace of the show was a little too slow for me at times. Last year they seemed to be always rushing for time and this year it seemed that there was some stalling and thats hard to handle for me at 3am in the morning.

-Its wrong to put this in the negative section but I just felt MITB wasn't as good as last year. I think I'm in the minority on this one but I just didn't think it flowed as good as previous years. I thought it was good, sometimes very good but I guess my expectations might have been too great. I'll look at it again today and probably regret posting this!

-Obviously there were a couple of matches that won't be considered wrestlemania classics!

Mossy Monk

kentonbomb wrote:

dude he's class end of story

Fantastic arguement there.

Wrestlemania as a whole was ok. there was a lot of **** there though (Kane v Khali, womens match, billionaires)

Fozzy

I enjoyed the show! I think it was the best ppv since 2005 anyway, I can't remember back much further than that

Cena had the best match of his career I think. Nice job of selling by both guys, they had me worried a bit after they went on the announce table

Taker vs Batista was as good as it possibly could have been. Taker goin over the top rope was crazy. Probably had the most exciting sequence of the night, good to see Taker win. Just hope he doesn't lose it back at Backlash. Has anyone ever kicked out of the Last Ride before? My mate was telling me no, but I was convinced someone had

Lashley vs Umaga was a fun match, I think it was Lashley's best match yet too. Those bumps the two of them took over the ropes were nasty, Umaga's mainly. Vince was brilliant as he usually is in these situations. No one took the stunner good though! And Lashley never got one!

MITB was better than the previous two, went a lot longer anyway I think. I was just excited to see Punk in such a big match! Edge looked hurt, I hope he's alright. Maybe him and Jeff had some spots planned which made the match break down a bit at the end, I dunno. Kennedy winnin is ok, I could see him losin to Cena though! Haha

I didn't really get the Benoit match. It was good, but the end didn't make sense to me. When did someone last get beaten by a diving headbutt? It made MVP look kinda weak I think, and I thought Benoit would have pulled out the Crossface, seeing as it's the biggest show of the year and he's probably got some fans in attendance who'd like to see that move

No headbutts from Khali..I was disappointed. The lumberjills looked so pointless. I'd like to see RVD and Elijah Burke feud now. That backstage dancing segment was cool, I didn't recognise Slick for a few seconds!

Definitely one of the better WWE shows

billstraighten

not a great WM IMO

the money in the bank match had so much potential ..it shudnt have been on 1st

Double C

I think the show last night was decent, at best. The ladder match lacked that Shelton element, something new that no one has seen before like he produced in the last two years. The Jeff/Edge thing was the only BIG spot and for me it happened too early in the match to eliminate both guys from the match. Punks dropkick into the ladder was pretty cool too, and I'm glad my Kennedy prediction came through(watch out Lashley!) but I was disappointed overall.
The dance thing backstage was great, if only Ron Simmons had of started dancing instead of saying "Damn"! IRS getting in on the mix too was pretty funny.
Benoit and MVP was confusing too, but it is WrestleMania, so put over the bigger name, I guess.
Same with the ECW match. I think most people here expected the New Breed to win but once they were out there, there was no way the Originals would lose.
Kane Khali was watchable, and Khali is growing on me (pun intended). Kane's slam on Khali was impressive.
Billionaires was good too, its always great to see Shane go coast to coast. The end was cool and Vince's facial expressions made it even better.
Batista and Taker was really good, and for me the only real nail-biting part of the show. Batista proved a few critics here, me included, wrong last night. Still, hopefully he f*cks off now!
I didn't love Michaels and Cena. The match was like a half told story. Cena pissed me off with his lack of selling the knee injury. The first 10 minutes of the match had Michaels dominate, annihilating Cena's knee so he could barely stand. (Michaels early domination also made it clear as day that Cena was going to win) Then when it was Cena's turn to go on the offensive, miraculously his knee got better and he was more than able to pull off all his normal offence without the slightest bit of bother. For me that made the opening 10 minutes of the match pointless. The ending was very good, especially when Michaels reversed the STFU into the inside cradle. Overall though, I thought the result was a tad too predictable.

There weren't as many mid-card matches to get excited about as there had been in previous years, hence the title match half way through which was a good move on their part. On the whole, I don't think it was as good as either of the last two years.

Dickmcsavage

I wasn't massively impressed with the event myself. If it was any other event like Backlash or whatever I would have enjoyed it more im sure but this is Wrestlemania and it has a standard to live up to.
MITB was OK I suppose but there were only like 1 or 2 big bumps. Was annoyed that Edge was taken out so quickly. I wonder was the injury planned so Edge can claim that because he wasn't able to compete in the reaminder of the match, his wrestlemain streak is still intact.
Contrary to what alot of people are saying here about the Kane/Khali match, I found the match to be fairly watchable. Im not saying it was a fantastic match by any means, its just that it was clear that Khali put in a massive effort. He pulled off more moves in that match than he has in his whole career in WWE to date. Its obvious he has mobility problems so fair play to him for putting in that effort.
Benoit V MVP was a completely standard match. Nothing special at all.
Batista and Takers match was great and the match of the night in my mind. It was also Batista's best match of his career so far.
Battle of the Billionaires was a good watch too but I thought Austin looked weak when he got knocked down TWICE by Umaga. Obvious end to this match though but good to see Vince bald.
Women's match: Crap!
Cena V Micheals. Well I thought this was VERY dissapointing. The match was sooooo slow. They spent way too much time on the ground and way too much time doing that concentrating on one part of the body lark. They should have just went for it and had a fast paced match. HBK tapping out was a load of bollocks and it makes him look weak.

If I had to rate this event out of ten I would give it a 7 (Average).

Vince135792003

I forgot to mention before that I thought the whole production and staging was really great. 'Takers entrance for example was so spectacular.

Vince and Donald on good morning America just now:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??g=8fc0198d-9cad-458b-b234-7ddcb315e54b&f=00&fg=copy

cooker3

I enjoyed it, it was a solid showing, not the greatest Wrestlemania ever but it was still entertaining none the less.

MITB was entertaining, edge hardy spot was pretty sick, it really looked good. It was as good as previous efforts although missed Shelton.
I really like the dance off, I loled a lot, especially irs appearing, how random was that.I love those sort of skits when done well.

The Benoit MVP match ended too quick for my liking, if they gave it more time it could have been really good, ending was too sudden.

The Batista Taker match was so much better then I expected, I really was in it and I really wasn't sure who was going to win up until the end, credit to both for it.

Battle of billionaires, it was entertaining, it did it's job.
The main event was a good match, you know Shawn will always put on a good show. Only disappointment was Cena winning which is a big disappointment for me but hey Cena doesn't lose.

1 thing I don't understand is putting Cena vs Michaels last and not Taker vs Batista. Surely with Cena retaining the title and Taker winning it especially when he is a much bigger fan favourite, would have been much better to end the show with him winning the title imo.

Minto

Right, I've had a bit over twelve hours to think about this and here are my thoughts on WrestleMania 23!

Money in the Bank match

Thought it was a bit short. There were too many people in it, but it was good! Not as good as others, but Hardy putting Edge through the ladder was brilliant. I just wish Punk had showcased his abilities a bit more. Also, Booker's "Tell me...." when he picked up the step-ladder and Kennedy doing the Kenton Bomb on Hornswaggle really made me laugh and prob saved the match for me!

Dance segment

Very good, WWE always seem to do something good with the legends at 'Mania, this year was no exception. Ricky Steamboat's apperance really made me mark out, lol.

Kane vs. Kahli

Better than I expected, although that doesn't say much as I expected to see a train wreck.

Vince/Stephanie segement

What a load of sh*t, they should have had the baby get sick or something.

United States Title match

Should have been longer, but was good for what it was. MVP should have got the win, but I guess WWE didn't want Benoit to lose the title twice in two 'Manias.

World Heavyweight Title match

Again, better than I expected. When Batista hit the Batista Bomb, I actually thought he'd get the pin. My heart skipped a beat when I thought the streak was over. I marked out like crazy when 'Taker won!

ECW match

What a load of sh*t! I hated it! Took up the place of many more deserving stars.

Battle of the Billionaires match

I really enjoyed this match. Austin definatly made this match. Shane O Mac going Coast-To-Coast was great. Vince getting shaved was good, he looks a lot better bald then I thought, lol. I was waiting for Austin to stun Trump. Really good match!!

Women's Title match

WWE really dropped the ball with this one! Last year's match was so much better. I really thought Ashley should have one this one tbh.

WWE Title match

This match pretty much summed up 'Mania for me, I expected so much, but I was let down. I thought the match was slow and as good as Michaels is at false finishes, I didn't really believe the match!

Overall

The stage was brilliant and most of the entrances were excellent to. Taker's could have had more druids, maybe even have them line the ramp or something. Michael's entrance was pure bullsh*t. He should have came out to sexyboy or at least have Triple H came out with him. Cena's was also very good, I loved the car. He should have came out of the car quicker though. It was obvious he swapped places with the real driver. I'm going to have to watch it again to judge it more. As it satnds, i'd give it about 8.5 out of 10 in entertainment value and about 6 out of 10 in terms of the matches. Hopefully, next year it will be better, especially if i'm there!

kentonbomb

Mossy Monk wrote:

Fantastic arguement there.

well you guys are calling me a troll and telling me not to be arguing ARN'T YA's

Fozzy

Yeah, the entrances were very good, forgot to say that. Undertaker's entrance was the best one he's ever had I thought, I loved it! I doubt that Cena swapped places with the driver there. I'd have said the bit with the car driving up was pre-recorded, because one of the camera angles was from the side of the car, but I couldn't see a camera there when Cena got out. Maybe I missed it though

I was hoping for Cryme Time to look for their tag-title shot after the main event. I'd completely forgotten about the MITB winner possibly comin out at the end, so that really would have been a shock for me, but after Kennedy won I assumed he wouldn't be coming back out. Oh yeah, and the gob****e gettin into the ring at the start of the main event, what an idiot. He pays good money and misses out on the main event. Hope Shawn blew his nose on him when he walked over to him

Ph3n0m

according to pwinsider.com

Last night after Undertaker won the World Title he told the referee to “get him out of here”, referring to Batista.

This does not look good for Batista.

Then I found this

The general consensus amongst talent backstage is that Batista is not in the wrestling business for the money, but because many believe he loves the role that he plays and the access that he has to attractive women. According to at least one backstage source, the current WWE World Heavyweight Champion is somewhat reclusive and shy and with his popularity on WWE television, he has women throwing themselves at him.

While Batista used to love watching every match on the show and would observe them in a kayfabe location at every house show and television taping to watch and study from veterans such as Triple H and Ric Flair, he has said to not do near as much since returning from his latest injury.

Perhaps his reputation hit an all time low after his backstage fight with King Booker, however, he is still seen as a guy that is not all about the money.

Credit – Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Makes you wonder whats going to happen now (apart from Kennedy vs Undertaker - yay)

Vince135792003

Ph3n0m wrote:

according to pwinsider.com

Last night after Undertaker won the World Title he told the referee to “get him out of here”, referring to Batista.

Shawn Michaels said the same thing about Bret Hart at Wrestlemania 12.

I think Batista and 'taker will rematch. Thats the way they usually do it after mania.

RebelRockChick

I thought the MITB was a good match. Some decent spots in it. Glad that Kennedy won too! Didn't think it was a good match to start off with at first but it kinda set everyone for the night.

Thought the backstage segment was funny. Class to see 'the Dragon' on tv!

Kane/Khali- the only slightest bit of excitment was Kane slamming Khali. Didn't really bother with this match anyway!

US title match- missed some of it but was I saw was good. Glad Benoit ended up winning it!

Taker/Batista- What everyone was wishing and hoping for happened...taker won. It was better than I expected tbh.

ECW match. Shocked that the originals won...even more so that RVD got the pin!

Lashley/Umaga- Highlights were Vince getting his head shaved (his face was priceless), Stunners!!! and Shane O Macs appearance

Women's match- What can I say....I'm happy Melina retained, but what a sh**e match. Compared to the women's match at WM last year it was nothing!

Cena/HBK- This match probably had my attention the most. I think the whole thing of will he retain or not kinda had me cos I was in two minds as to whether Cena would win. Good match though. HBK kept me entertained! What was with that guy invading the ring...how pointless

Also gotta say the staging looked really good, especially for some of the entrances.

Mr.Nice Guy

Ph3n0m wrote:

according to pwinsider.com

Last night after Undertaker won the World Title he told the referee to “get him out of here”, referring to Batista.

This does not look good for Batista.

I just watched the match again and yep he definitely says it. Referee Charles Robinson hands him the belt and then hops outside the ring and Taker looks at him and says "get him out of here" and Robinson scurries back in and rolls him out.

Vince135792003

WWE made the front page of the New York times today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/arts/television/04mania.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Vince135792003

Some more news:

The Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.

After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

collie1

I know this is probably a load of ****, but can anyone clarify this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adam_Copeland&oldid=119652370

Just read it and tell me what ye think. I got it off xbox.com forums.

Vince135792003

collie1 wrote:

I know this is probably a load of ****, but can anyone clarify this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adam_Copeland&oldid=119652370

Just read it and tell me what ye think. I got it off xbox.com forums.

Edge is alive.

Minto

I have to agree with Shawn there, i've watched their match again and I think it shows. Pity, cos i've sorta warmed up to their match a little more than what I posted in this thread yesterday.

Fozzy

Interesting..I watched the match back earlier and I noticed the non-selling of the leg attacks more than I did on the night. I think I was just enjoying the moment first time. It did make Shawn's offence look pointless when Cena ignored it after selling it pretty well at first

I actually said to my mate that I bet Shawn was shooting with that handshake snub, but I didn't really believe it at the time. A rematch will be interesting, I'm sure Cena would be trying his absolute hardest if he got the chance

Minto

Just read the New York Times article and I must say, I really liked it. It presented the WWE in a good light while at the same, achknowledging that it is scripted. I havn't read something that good about wrestling from a mainstream, source in ages. Props to the author!!

HorseRadish

Fozzy wrote:

Interesting..I watched the match back earlier and I noticed the non-selling of the leg attacks more than I did on the night. I think I was just enjoying the moment first time. It did make Shawn's offence look pointless when Cena ignored it after selling it pretty well at first

I actually said to my mate that I bet Shawn was shooting with that handshake snub, but I didn't really believe it at the time. A rematch will be interesting, I'm sure Cena would be trying his absolute hardest if he got the chance

True,you could tell that HBK was thick at something.

nacho libre

Vince was as good as i knew he would be. His facial expressions as he was being shaved bald were priceless! Comedy gold!
I thought the last two matches were very good but overall i felt this was not a great Wrestlemania-too many filler matches for my liking.

Cena should be squatted by Khali for not selling the knee injury. It was a good match nonetheless- but i felt the finish was not well-thought out. For me the night belongs to Taker'! I thought he was too old to fly:D
Undertaker stole the show with that one move!
Credit too to Batista for losing his inhibitions during the match- most noticeably when he went up top... He proved a lot of naysayers- including myself- wrong in this match with his performance.

Once again:Taker'!!! Taker'!!! 15-0...:D

HBK

collie1 wrote:

I know this is probably a load of ****, but can anyone clarify this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adam_Copeland&oldid=119652370

Just read it and tell me what ye think. I got it off xbox.com forums.

if you notice at the top, that that particular page is an archived version, edited by some twat...if you click 'current version' then you get the real deal.

HBK

Vince135792003 wrote:

Some more news:

The Wrestling Observer's Dave Meltzer appeared on the Live Audio Wrestling radio show on Sunday night after WrestleMania and he said that Shawn Michaels was extremely upset and unhappy with his match against John Cena. When he got backstage, he was screaming about how terrible he thought it was.

After the match had concluded, there was a spot where HBK abruptly walked away from a Cena handshake attempt which was not scripted, as they were supposed to shake hands. Michaels was red hot at Cena for not selling his leg that he spent the first few minutes of the match working on. Also, several of the agents were unhappy with Cena for that as well. In fact, you could see during the match that HBK got in Cena's face and started cutting a shoot promo on him, which is why the audio went out for a few seconds and was replaced with crowd noise.

Shawn Michaels Angry At WrestleMania Story A Fake
Date Added: April 03, 2007
Story By: Douglas Nunnally
There are internet reports being posted around saying that Shawn Michaels is furious with John Cena over "not selling the leg properly" during his WrestleMania match as well as other things with the source being attributed to Dave Meltzer on Live Audio Wrestling directly following WrestleMania.

This report is fake.

You can listen to what Dave Meltzer said yourself at http://liveaudiowrestling.com/audio/audio.php and he's on the show starting at the forty-five minute mark and there is no mention of this supposed "story." They talk about buyrates, post-Mania angles, boom periods, and some of the matches before going into MMA discussion for the rest of his time on the show.


i noticed this myself,total waste of 10mins by hbk to hurt him to a point where he couldnt stand, then he runs outta the corner does that stupid fist drop(name aludes me)..shakes the leg once..n hes fine...no wonder he gets booed out of the building...

Double C

collie1 wrote:

I know this is probably a load of ****, but can anyone clarify this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adam_Copeland&oldid=119652370

Just read it and tell me what ye think. I got it off xbox.com forums.

Edge used to wrestle as Sexton Hardcastle. That makes me laugh!

Vince135792003

Sorry for the incorrect news report.

Fozzy

I read a report on another forum (not sure of the source), but I had to laugh at one line:

According to those within WWE, Shawn Michaels was said to not be the least bit upset about losing his match to John Cena this past Sunday at WrestleMania. Michaels accepts that fact that he is getting older, he is now 42. Michaels has always argued for what’s better for the business. So he wasn’t going to put up a fuss over his loss to Cena.

However, 18 months ago when he lost to Hulk Hogan at SummerSlam, he was upset because Hogan was older than him and wasn’t a full-time wrestler. It was more of a Hogan powerplay that resulted in Michaels taking the loss at last years SummerSlam.

Slight Raw

The promo that Shawn cut on RAW, which referenced to Hogan and Bret Hart, was to dig at the two wrestlers for putting up a fuss backstage in the past when they had to lose to him. In both those situations, Shawn felt they should have lost to him because Bret was leaving the company and Hogan was just making a special appearance.

Always done what's good for the business?! He's had 12 title reigns, and only four have ended with proper matches!

I'd agree with the point of that report, Cena needed the win more than Shawn did. I'm sure Shawn is pleased with the amount of fans that Cena draws to the company too

I found out the answer to my question about if anyone had kicked out of the Last Ride before. Turns out I was right! Brock kicked out of it in the Hell in a Cell match, HHH kicked out of it at KOTR 2002 (although there was no ref at the time, so I dunno if you'd count that), and JBL kicked out of it on SD two years ago

Vince135792003

This report came from the torch apparently which I haven't read. I think until you actually read what Wade Keller wrote, its a little unfair to him as sometimes people take things out of context when they summarise them.

Minto

WWE have now posted a link to the New York Times article. Looks like they are gonna try to get more mainstream publicity.