Thursday polling day????

ninty9er

jank wrote:

Is this online?

Yes, but it's been locked

zepp

The_Minister wrote:

Weekend voting is a very bad idea, because:
1) Many students have exams on Saturdays (and Sunday is out of the question)
2) That time of year many people go on weekend breaks.
3) It makes the cost of the whole election rise by 50%

1. And what they don't have any on Thursday? They are more exams on a Thursday then a Saturday.
2. Thursday is the time of the week that people work. 66% of the poll opening time the entire workforce (more or less) is at work. Not including the time spent commuting. When are they going to vote. Many people take week breaks as well what are we going to do about all the people in benidorm.
3. Does not matter in the slightest. You can't put a price on the democratic process.

copacetic

Chakar wrote:

It has to be held before the 4th of June.

How so?
I thought it had to be within 5 years + 30 days of the start of current dail.
So that would be 6th June + 30 days - 6th July is last possible date for
the election?

ateam

copacetic wrote:

How so?
I thought it had to be within 5 years + 30 days of the start of current dail.
So that would be 6th June + 30 days - 6th July is last possible date for
the election?

You're correct.

ninty9er

Guys....students and those working away from home are entitled to a postal vote anyway so this is really a non-issue. If anything more people work and play later on a Friday (late night shopping) making Thursday a better option too.

And IT HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED THAT POLLING WILL BE ON A THURSDAY, though it is likely at this stage. Friday's have shown a falling trend.

Sunday needs more discussion though

copacetic

ninty9er wrote:

Guys....students and those working away from home are entitled to a postal vote anyway so this is really a non-issue.

A non-issue? Are you kidding?

You do know that you would have had to apply last year for a postal vote? It doesn't help one single person that may have been able to vote on a Friday at home.

If may be true that FF are happy to disenfranchise people who won't vote for them but don't make out that it is a non-issue. Absolute rubbish.

What 'falling trend' has friday shown? There is no 'trend'

E92

I believe that it will be held on a day that Bert thinks will get him the most votes, as hes entitled to of course; they're not having it on a Friday because students are more likely to vote on that day and back in 02 students were favourably disposed towards FF and of course now they either dont vote or those that day are(a lot) more likely to vote for the commies(Sinn Fein) than any other section of the electorate, as someone whos young enough to be in either ógra FF or YFG, I know well the way the winds are blowing as regards young peoples antics when it comes to voting. I know that more young people do vote Green now, which is to be welcomed(compared to voting SF, but really they should be all voting FG and Lab:D ), although regretably some of those also transfer to SF, and considering that the two parties are a lot more different than many people think,(though the Greens have the distinction that Sinn Fein in that the represent both Ireland and Northern Ireland and therefore are not 'partionist', and Trevor Sargent was up there during the assembly elections campaining for their candidate in NI), it shows that they dont know the policies and just want to give the two fingers to the 'established parties', as they're entitled to do of course, it is a democracy after all.

As I say, I welcome the shift that some people are making from SF to Green(the Greens are very much a la mode these days, they are like the Tommy Hilfigers or Ralph Laurens of the political world, something I think they've(fortunately) stolen from SF), and I would even go so far to say that they, and not FG are the ones to watch out for come this summer;remember FG lost a load of their seats in 02 by the narrowest of margins, so I dont think that it will be anything like as hard as its being made out to be for FG to get the 20+ seats they need,(Sen Michael Finucane in Limerick West, Sen Paul Bradford in Cork East, Cllr Deirdre Clune in Cork South Central for instance) especially with that poll in Waterford saying John Deasy will top the poll by a country mile, if they can do the transfers properly, FG should easily get 2 seats there, theres enough FG votes as it stands to make it happen there:D

I think that ninty9er is right about the nurses pay claims in that they're not going to call an election while that is going on and when you have muppets like John Minihan saying(who fortunately hasn't a snowballs chance in hell of getting a seat in Cork South Central(CSC), and he doesnt live in CSC either which doesn't help him) what he did in last Sundays Independent, it wont help the Government at all. (which I decided to show below as it reqiures registration),

wrote:

MAEVE SHEEHAN
A GOVERNMENT senator has launched an extraordinary attack on an eminent heart surgeon for supporting the nurses' dispute.
John Minihan, the Progressive Democrats senator from Cork, was so incensed with Maurice Neligan's calls for political intervention in the dispute that he reminded the renowned surgeon of his links to the infamous Ansbacher offshore accounts.
He claimed that when the health service was struggling in the Eighties, Mr Neligan was one of the wealthy elite whose money was channelled offshore.
Mr Neligan attracted the senator's ire when he spoke on RTE's Drivetime radio show last Wednesday.
The surgeon has been a vocal critic of the Government's command of the health service. On radio, he called on Taoiseach Bertie Ahern to intervene in the escalating industrial action over nurses' pay and working hours.
Senator Minihan said that the call for Bertie Ahern to intervene suggested a division between Health Minister Mary Harney and the Taoiseach. He said that both were in agreement that, while there was merit in the nurses' claims, they had to be resolved as part of the benchmarking process.
The sting was to come: "Back in the Eighties, the health services were forced to endure serious cutbacks at the same time as many of our richest citizens evaded paying their fair share of tax," he said. "Due to cash shortages, hospital beds were cut, while some of our most successful people kept cash offshore and out of sight of the Exchequer.
"One such person was Maurice Neligan. Inspectors examining the Ansbacher accounts accepted that funds belonging to Mr Neligan had been placed in the Caymen Islands without his knowledge.
"In 2002 Mr Neligan said he was 'amazed' to find that some his money was lodged in the account. However, he did not claim similar amazement when it came to his offshore account in the Isle of Man, where he put his earnings from overseas patients - £10,000 came in from the Emir of Bahrain alone."
Senator Minihan went on to say that Mr Neligan had told the Irish Times in July, 2002, that he was not a very financially astute person and that money was not his forte.
He said: "Sadly, it is glaringly obvious that his knowledge of industrial relations is equally deficient."

ninty9er

copacetic wrote:

A non-issue? Are you kidding?

You do know that you would have had to apply last year for a postal vote? It doesn't help one single person that may have been able to vote on a Friday at home.

If may be true that FF are happy to disenfranchise people who won't vote for them but don't make out that it is a non-issue. Absolute rubbish.

Get your facts straight have a look here

page 4 - section 12 - paragraph 2.

Page 3 - section 7 - last sentence.

You and all students have plenty of time of time to register for a postal vote. Anything else is mistruths, as peddaled by Lizzy Munnely of YFG and the other clowns behind this campaign to say no to Thursday, neither has she proven that students always return to their home constituency once their programme of study is finished.

All in all it's a smear campaign against a government that has done more than any other in the past to increase voter turnout.

copacetic wrote:

What 'falling trend' has friday shown? There is no 'trend'

When Friday polling was introduced in 1997; the turnout fell to 65.9% then to 62.57%, although it was a numerical increase of about 80,000. can't find 92 figures at the moment

copacetic

ninty9er wrote:

Get your facts straight have a look here

page 4 - section 12 - paragraph 2.

Page 3 - section 7 - last sentence.

You and all students have plenty of time of time to register for a postal vote. Anything else is mistruths, as peddaled by Lizzy Munnely of YFG and the other clowns behind this campaign to say no to Thursday, neither has she proven that students always return to their home constituency once their programme of study is finished.

All in all it's a smear campaign against a government that has done more than any other in the past to increase voter turnout.

When Friday polling was introduced in 1997; the turnout fell to 65.9% then to 62.57%, although it was a numerical increase of about 80,000. can't find 92 figures at the moment

Firstly I am not a student and never said I was. I guess you linked instead of quoted because none of what you linked says anything about how 'easy' it is to apply for postal voting. The 2 bits you pointed out don't relate at all and one isn't even relevant. You point to a section about getting on the supplement register of voters up to 15 days prior to the election but this is for people who aren't on the register, not for people who want to apply for postal voted. If you think the average student has time in the build up to their exams to wait hours for the college registrar to sign the application for them that is extremely unlikely to get procressed in time you must be some kind of nutter.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-to-ireland/introduction-to-the-irish-system/right_to_vote


You say it is a non-issue knowing well that getting people to vote is about making it easy not making it extremely difficult. This of course is exactly FFs plan. Keep saying it is a non-issue if you like. It just isn't true. It is an issue, you are just happy about it.

You'll make a good politician, pointing to non existant stats, non existant 'proof' of your point and ramblings how the other side is out to get you. I don't have any party allegiences and tbh think all of ye are as bad as the rest. So you can rule me out of that conspiracy.

copacetic

ninty9er wrote:

When Friday polling was introduced in 1997; the turnout fell to 65.9% then to 62.57%, although it was a numerical increase of about 80,000. can't find 92 figures at the moment

As for your 'trend' please post sources, I don't trust a thing you say to be honest.

Please also remember that it was Bertie who picked Friday in 2002 when everyone wanted a Saturday.

Marcais

copacetic wrote:

As for your 'trend' please post sources, I don't trust a thing you say to be honest.

Please also remember that it was Bertie who picked Friday in 2002 when everyone wanted a Saturday.

Why should it be only be one day anyway. What should be a very important decision for the country surely should be given two days!

And it should not be up to Bertie to decide what day it is on.

He can and will manipulate the decision based on which day would mean a higher turnout and whether his analysts think a higher turnout will be in his favour or not.

Anyway, Fine Gael or Fianna Fail, not much difference. Though I agree a change is needed, I would not look forward to seeing any more of Enda Kenny than I alreday see!

copacetic

Marcais wrote:

Why should it be only be one day anyway. What should be a very important decision for the country surely should be given two days!

And it should not be up to Bertie to decide what day it is on.

He can and will manipulate the decision based on which day would mean a higher turnout and whether his analysts think a higher turnout will be in his favour or not.

Anyway, Fine Gael or Fianna Fail, not much difference. Though I agree a change is needed, I would not look forward to seeing any more of Enda Kenny than I alreday see!

Well it shouldn't but looks like the very best we can hope for is Friday. Saturday was tried and proven successful at a by-election (in tipp I think). Turnout was up after a downward trend for a long time.

Of course Bertie went for Friday instead and is now claiming because he picked the wrong day then we should go back to midweek. It's farcical really.

In general FF will want a low turnout on the assumption that their supporters will turn out anyway. They will especially want to disenfranchise the young who typically are no supporter of FF.

Seth Brundle

gandalf wrote:

It obvious that Bertie doesn't want the Educated Youth to vote on their future. An extremely cynical move especially considering falling numbers of voters at the polls.

I think in this case the majority of those who would sign it are the exact reason that Bertie is trying to make it difficult for them to vote. Students, long distance commuters and all those who may have a reason to gripe but won't have the time to do it.

ninty9er wrote:

I think is't unlikely we'll see a May election now; so it doesn't really matter a whole lot.

According to a very interesting article in the current Phoenix, assuming Hazel Lawlor (Liam's widow) fails to secure an injunction against the Mahon tribunal then Bertie has just six days to call an election if he doesn't want to make a guest appearance in front of Judge Mahon about a certain 80 grand he (allegedly) received. By calling the election within this period (with a 3 week minimum notice period) would mean that the tribunal would not run for the last two weeks prior to the election.

ninty9er wrote:

You and all students have plenty of time of time to register for a postal vote.

Do you know if this fact being mentioned to the various student unions etc. in time for the election?

ninty9er wrote:

All in all it's a smear campaign against a government that has done more than any other in the past to increase voter turnout.

What have they done? Maybe many more people will go out to vote because they are angry against the FF/PD government but I don't think that was intentional.

zepp

ninty9er wrote:

G

All in all it's a smear campaign against a government that has done more than any other in the past to increase voter turnout.

Oh yes of course it is. Hence why the organisation that you have the logo of in your sig wants Saturday voting.
http://archives.tcm.ie/westernpeople/2002/04/04/story6571.asp

ateam

Just want to mention that not every young person is a student. Friday would be an awful day to hold an election for them. They work til 5 or 6, get home at 7, eat dinner, and then get ready, start drinking... Last thing on a young person's mind on a Friday night is voting. Perhaps with an elction on Thursday, more young people will actually vote.

Seth Brundle

Elections should be held on a Saturday when the majority would have time to vote

ninty9er

copacetic wrote:

As for your 'trend' please post sources, I don't trust a thing you say to be honest.

Freely available on www.environ.ie

zepp wrote:

Oh yes of course it is. Hence why the organisation that you have the logo of in your sig wants Saturday voting.
http://archives.tcm.ie/westernpeople.../story6571.asp

April 2002...you have to be kidding:rolleyes: :rolleyes: have a look atthis press release issued THIS WEEK by the highes elected officer of Ógra Fianna Fáil.

kbannon wrote:

Do you know if this fact being mentioned to the various student unions etc. in time for the election?

Yes; Dick Roche has informed Students' Unions at all third level institutions of this.

The supplemental register applies to students living away from home and cahnges in address as far as my local TD and his assistant (who has and continues to process some of the said applications to the supplemental register.

Regardless, Friday is no good for Students either and in May, the average student away form home isn't going to leave to vote when exams are looming.
At any given time of year there will be an issue with some part of society not being able to vote.

REALLY; if you actually want to vote, you will vote regardless of circumstances. There are also many students who have no intention of returning to their home constituencies once their programme of study is complete.

I don't know any commuters who wouldn't be able to vote on Thursday. my dad travels 15 miles to get to work at 7am, then backtracks a round trip of 180/200 miles a day before travelling the 15 miles home again after 6pm, sometimes after 7pm depending on how busy his day was. That commute used to be 25 miles each way and he's always managed to vote!!

I smell something in here and it ain't potassium

RANT OVER

ninty9er

ateam wrote:

Just want to mention that not every young person is a student. Friday would be an awful day to hold an election for them. They work til 5 or 6, get home at 7, eat dinner, and then get ready, start drinking... Last thing on a young person's mind on a Friday night is voting. Perhaps with an elction on Thursday, more young people will actually vote.

It's a crap day for student's too!! getting home and working

copacetic

ninty9er wrote:

Freely available on www.environ.ie


April 2002...you have to be kidding:rolleyes: :rolleyes: have a look atthis press release issued THIS WEEK by the highes elected officer of Ógra Fianna Fáil.


Yes; Dick Roche has informed Students' Unions at all third level institutions of this.

The supplemental register applies to students living away from home and cahnges in address as far as my local TD and his assistant (who has and continues to process some of the said applications to the supplemental register.

Regardless, Friday is no good for Students either and in May, the average student away form home isn't going to leave to vote when exams are looming.
At any given time of year there will be an issue with some part of society not being able to vote.

REALLY; if you actually want to vote, you will vote regardless of circumstances. There are also many students who have no intention of returning to their home constituencies once their programme of study is complete.

I don't know any commuters who wouldn't be able to vote on Thursday. my dad travels 15 miles to get to work at 7am, then backtracks a round trip of 180/200 miles a day before travelling the 15 miles home again after 6pm, sometimes after 7pm depending on how busy his day was. That commute used to be 25 miles each way and he's always managed to vote!!

I smell something in here and it ain't potassium

RANT OVER

yep, and he who smelt it delt it.

zepp

ninty9er wrote:

Freely available on www.environ.ie


April 2002...you have to be kidding:rolleyes: :rolleyes: have a look atthis press release issued THIS WEEK by the highes elected officer of Ógra Fianna Fáil.

So what changed the minds of Ogra from being in favour of Saturdays to know being not. Anything to do with Bertie's announcement. The argument posted by them and indeed made by you has yet to say why Thursday is the best day for voters. Why is it better? Why will Thursday increase the turnout over a Saturday.

As for your father travelling 15 miles and not getting back before 6 or 7. There is people travelling 50 miles in traffic and not getting home till 8-9 that is far different the 15 miles and getting home after 6.

ninty9er

zepp wrote:

So what changed the minds of Ogra from being in favour of Saturdays to know being not. Anything to do with Bertie's announcement. The argument posted by them and indeed made by you has yet to say why Thursday is the best day for voters. Why is it better? Why will Thursday increase the turnout over a Saturday.

As for your father travelling 15 miles and not getting back before 6 or 7. There is people travelling 50 miles in traffic and not getting home till 8-9 that is far different the 15 miles and getting home after 6.

And I'm sure their polling booths aren't another 50 miles from their home, or even 5 for that matter, so what's to stop them doing it on the way home and why doesn't this apply to Friday when traffic is worse in any part of the country I'm familiar with

**Bertie hasn't made an announcement as to whe the election is going to be unless I missed it:eek: :eek: :eek:

Villain

Why not have two day polling Thursday and Friday, I mean surely costs can't be that high well not as high as the money FF wasted on Eletronic Voting!

zepp

irish1 wrote:

Why not have two day polling Thursday and Friday, I mean surely costs can't be that high well not as high as the money FF wasted on Eletronic Voting!

Possibly unconstititional i believe. Something about polling day not polling days in the constitution.

zepp

ninty9er wrote:

And I'm sure their polling booths aren't another 50 miles from their home, or even 5 for that matter, so what's to stop them doing it on the way home and why doesn't this apply to Friday when traffic is worse in any part of the country I'm familiar with

If you are going to debate this issue please address the points I make. I know you have a vested interest and all but don't let that cloud you intelligence.

Firstly my posted mentioned Saturday not Friday. So traffic on friday is not relevant at all. On the idea of voting on the way home. After a hard days work where they have been commuting for so long do you think they would like the eat at all? Some of these people have not eaten for 6-7 hours. Think that might have a bearing on them. Often they have kids to pick up from the creche and kids to feed. They have been on the go all day for sometimes 13-14 hours. Do you think they would like a bit of food?

Anyway as you avoided the main point I will repeat it for you.

The argument posted by them and indeed made by you has yet to say why Thursday is the best day for voters. Why is it better? Why will Thursday increase the turnout over a Saturday.

The_Minister

irish1 wrote:

Why not have two day polling Thursday and Friday,

Because it's unconstitutional.

ninty9er

zepp wrote:

So what changed the minds of Ogra from being in favour of Saturdays to know being not. Anything to do with Bertie's announcement. The argument posted by them and indeed made by you has yet to say why Thursday is the best day for voters. Why is it better? Why will Thursday increase the turnout over a Saturday.

If the weather holds up like it has been and it is likely to, most of Limerick will be in Kilkee, most of Dublin will be in Bray or wherever.

Why is Saturday no good

• Just like any other day of the week it's a working day
• People who don't work weekends leave home on Friday and don't return until Sunday
• Check any caravan park on any weekend in May/June/July/August and there are cars everywhere....people aren't at home
• So basically saturday rules out
  • Weekend workers
  • Students with Saturday exams
  • the seaside crowd
  • need I go on...Saturday rules out MORE people than a weekday, and Sundays and public holidays are off limits for elections and referenda

zepp

ninty9er wrote:

If the weather holds up like it has been and it is likely to, most of Limerick will be in Kilkee, most of Dublin will be in Bray or wherever.

Why is Saturday no good

• Just like any other day of the week it's a working day
• People who don't work weekends leave home on Friday and don't return until Sunday
• Check any caravan park on any weekend in May/June/July/August and there are cars everywhere....people aren't at home
• So basically saturday rules out
  • Weekend workers
  • Students with Saturday exams
  • the seaside crowd
  • need I go on...Saturday rules out MORE people than a weekday, and Sundays and public holidays are off limits for elections and referenda

So you are saying that the entire population of Ireland go on holidays every weekend? Seriously. I mean Kilkee is popular but never seen 2 million people there. Very few people go on holidays at a weekend as a portion of the entire population. International research shows that weekend voting increases turnout.

Are you seriously saying that Saturday rules out Saturday workers but Thursday voting does not rule out thursday workers (which is a far far greater number)? Is that your arguement?

Far more students have exams on a thursday then Saturday. Many Uni's don't have sat exams. Like NUIG

How many people go to the seaside on a friday night? Mainly they go on a Saturday morning. When they can vote on the way. When they have just got up have not been working and travelling for 14 hours and have eaten, feed the kids etc.

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote:

If the weather holds up like it has been and it is likely to,

Can Bertie sort out the weather now?

oscarBravo

zepp wrote:

So you are saying that the entire population of Ireland go on holidays every weekend? Seriously. I mean Kilkee is popular but never seen 2 million people there. Very few people go on holidays at a weekend as a portion of the entire population. International research shows that weekend voting increases turnout.

Are you seriously saying that Saturday rules out Saturday workers but Thursday voting does not rule out thursday workers (which is a far far greater number)? Is that your arguement?

Far more students have exams on a thursday then Saturday. Many Uni's don't have sat exams. Like NUIG

How many people go to the seaside on a friday night? Mainly they go on a Saturday morning. When they can vote on the way. When they have just got up have not been working and travelling for 14 hours and have eaten, feed the kids etc.

I'd agree with all of the above, and add this observation: anyone who decides not to vote once every few years because it's mildly disruptive to their plans for a weekend away obviously isn't that deeply concerned about their democratic mandate anyway.

copacetic

ninty9er wrote:

If the weather holds up like it has been and it is likely to, most of Limerick will be in Kilkee, most of Dublin will be in Bray or wherever.

Why is Saturday no good

• Just like any other day of the week it's a working day
• People who don't work weekends leave home on Friday and don't return until Sunday
• Check any caravan park on any weekend in May/June/July/August and there are cars everywhere....people aren't at home
• So basically saturday rules out
  • Weekend workers
  • Students with Saturday exams
  • the seaside crowd
  • need I go on...Saturday rules out MORE people than a weekday, and Sundays and public holidays are off limits for elections and referenda

you probably should go on since all these points are absolute rubbish

Saturday doesn't rule out any of the people you listed. Who are these people who work all weekend and have the week off?

As Bertie said back at the NICE ref:

Later on we found out that in 2002 the Taoiseach had this to say about Saturday voting (in the Nice referendum rerun).

Interviewer: Why did you pick Saturday as polling day?
Taoiseach: The view of the government…was we should give Saturday a chance…We have never done that in this country so hopefully we can maximise a very high vote. There is a lot of third level institutions in this country now and Saturday brings them home. there is a lot of other people around the country working all week and Saturday will bring them home to their constituencies
Interviewer: Isn’t that a risk with so much apathy?
Taoiseach: This should help them, young people particularly the students unions and others have said they need to be facilitated…by going on a Saturday it gives them an opportunity to turn out