Keane questions Given approach

dbnavan

I have read and heard many comments by roy keane about the current and past irish setups, most of which I agree with but this is OTT in my opinion, Gerry Payton never got a look in in the 80's when Bonner was between the sticks.

rte.ie wrote:

Keane questions Given approach
Tuesday, 27 March 2007 10:04
Roy Keane believes Republic of Ireland captain Shay Given has played too many games for his country.

The Newcastle United goalkeeper will tomorrow night equal Pat Bonner's 80-cap record for Ireland, in the Euro 2008 qualifying match at Croke Park.

But Sunderland manager Keane claims other goalkeepers should have started friendly internationals, claiming Given has picked up caps to get 'a pat on the back'.

Keane said: 'I think players have agendas - certain players come over all the time no matter what.

'Maybe they want to get 50 or 100 caps and a pat on the back for it.

'I think Shay's one of those ones - he wants to get 200 caps.'

Given, 30, had a spell on loan at Sunderland 11 years ago, before joining their north-east rivals for £1.5million from Blackburn the following year.

And Keane continued in The Sun: 'Shay seems to have played every game - even friendlies.

'You have other keepers, who travel all the time. Then, when they do play, they're taken off.

'I've always thought, when it comes to the lads who travel all the time, "give them a game".

'Qualifiers you have to win - but with friendly matches, give the lads who travel a game and don't be changing them at half-time, give them a full game.'

Prior to Saturday's 1-0 Euro 2008 qualfying defeat of Wales in Dublin, Keane accused those in the current Republic line-up of under-performing and also claimed there was a bias against Cork-based players.

smemon

and the source is The Sun

he's probably been quoted out of context and i'm sure it wasn't a pop at Given, probably a humorous remark which some clown has twisted into an insult.

It's amazing the sort of power and voice Keane still has in the Irish set up. The papers publish his pre and post match analysis, rather than Staunton's .

BaZmO*

I was taking it seriously right up unitl I read, "And Keane continued in The Sun" and then thought :rolleyes: unless he was being interviewed outdoors on a hot day of course.

'I've always thought, when it comes to the lads who travel all the time, "give them a game".

'Qualifiers you have to win - but with friendly matches, give the lads who travel a game and don't be changing them at half-time, give them a full game.'

Although that's a fair point tbh.

nacho libre

I guess he's just defending himself since he wasn't too keen on playing friendly.;) He is a buck to have a go at Given who is one of the few players that has always been fully committed when he plays for Ireland.

Rollo Tamasi

I'm going to take those comments with a pinch of salt as I have no doubt the Sun are trying to stir up ****e.

In saying that though, if we blooded more young goalkeepers during friendly matches then Henderson probably wouldn't have made that crazy decision to run 35 yards off his line in the Cyprus game.

kraggy

Very simliar article has appeared on rte.ie and soccernet.com too so don't think he was taken out of context or misrepresented.

_blank_

Actually, the original article appeared a few days ago, in the Sindo I think.

Exact same quotes anyway.

padser

smemon wrote:

and the source is The Sun
The papers publish his pre and post match analysis, rather than Staunton's .

Considering Staunton's post match analysis was to ask for 'the same again' (relating to his own team rather then the oposition) I am an not surprised

PHB

I agree to be honest. I think international friendlies are a waste of time, unless you give young players a chance to get to grips with the set-up. Given is getting on in years and there is no need to make him travel for an international friendly, with the risk of injures and what have.

Zebra3

Is this because Roy had the Giggs attitude to international friendlies?

shane86

But sure how many friendlies do we play in an average year? 3 at most. I think (or hope) that what Keane meant was that we should be developing a talent to replace Given. He is 30 now, and given that the goalies job is less physically demanding than that of any other squad member I wouldnt think its impossible for him to be playing in 8 years. I think friendlies are still important to give the team some practice before a qualifier (though as we al know we didnt exactly keep up the momentum after Sweden)

redspider

IF Keane said what the Sun have written, and they are quite clear with his quotes so it seems like he must have said these things, it is yet another step in Roy acting the maggot and being out of order.

For one thing, why is he picking on Shay? Given is one of our better players if not the best. He has saved us on numerous occasions. Why is he specificially calling it out against him?

And why comment about friendly internationals during the gap in between back to back competitive matches? Its not relevant to whats happening now. And indeed why comment at all? What has Roy got to do with the official Irish set-up? Nothing. Are his comments helpful? No.

If you were involved in the Irish set-up, would you be happy? Indeed, as a fan, are you happy with his attitude? I'm not.

> It's amazing the sort of power and voice Keane still has in the Irish set up.

This is the problem in that people do listen to him mainly because of Saipan and other 'awkward' sitiuations that he has been involved in over the years.

He is outspoken where its not needed, perhaps he has picked that up from Ferguson. He had been relatively quiet about the Ireland set-up until very recently, so why the sudden splurge of comments. Whats his problem? Is he not getting it in the sack at home with the missus or something and is just generally mad and venting on issues?

Roy, do yourself a favour, shut the eff up .....

Redspider

~Rebel~

Saying Given shouldnt be playing the friendly's in favour of giving the younger lads a go is quite fair enough, but his comments on Given doing it for the "pat on the back" and the 200caps is bang out of order imo. Slating our most important player for turning up when he's been called up and always putting in 100% regardless of competitive or friendly match is just wrong.

The Rooster

Shay Given does not pick the Ireland team, for friendlies or competitive games.

Slagging off Shay Given for turning up for almost every friendly is an absolute disgrace.

Roy needs to take his head out of his árse.

This is the second really stupid thing he's come out with in a week (along with Liam Miller not getting picked for the senior squad because he's from Cork :rolleyes: ). If he keeps this crap up, the many good points that he does make will be overshadowed - he'll become as bad as the muppets in the FAI.

Extraordinary (though not surprising) that you'll get ManU sheep who still back him 100% when he comes out with such tripe.

Zebra3

It's obvious that through and through Dubliner Shay Given was keeping all those international quality keepers from Cork out of the team.. :rolleyes:

BaZmO*

redspider wrote:

He had been relatively quiet about the Ireland set-up until very recently, so why the sudden splurge of comments. Whats his problem?

Guide Dogs for the Blind...

stooge

Given has probably been the most consistent player we have had over the past decade. He has pulled off some huge saves and kept us in major games. I also think he comes across as a very level headed and nice guy, so I dont really think that he is pushing for a 'pat on the back' or a cap record at the expense of other keepers.

Keane is right however, in what he says about friendlies, its a chance to blood players and give them a chance. With all the fuss about top players playing too many games (which I disagree with) it'd be a welcome rest if the young lads were picked.

Overall though, I think Keanes comments were probably a little less controversial than made out by the Sun. TBH there are very few trashier newspapers you could quote from.

super_furry

It's unbelievable that a player like Keane, who was always one to pick and choose his international games, can question Shay Given.

Roy Keane isn't even a member of the Irish set-up anymore and he's STILL a negative influence on the squad. He may have been a good player but his ego is out of control - so much so that Alex Ferguson had to get rid of him because of the destabilising influence he ended up having on the United dressing room. And just look at how United's so called 'average' players have done since he's gone.

Keane has no business insulting and interferring with the Irish team and should just take his anti-Cork conspiracy theories and insults of Shay Given and 'stick them up his bollox,' as he so eloquintly put himself.

eirebhoy

Keane made these comments last week, they were in the weekend papers. The English media got hold of them yesterday.

kaisersose77

on the subject of roy keane

"Goram also spoke candidly about his early career, his time at Rangers, and his experience at Manchester United, where Irish international Roy Keane refused to speak to him when he arrived at Old Trafford."


I wonder why.......



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/6501037.stm

Fanny Cradock

PHB wrote:

Given is getting on in years

Has Football Manager 2007 taught you nothing? Goalkeepers tend to reach their peek between the ages of 32-35. Now, using my mathematical abilities, *divide the 3... carry the 1... pi R squared*, I calculate that Shay is firmly established in *dramatic voice* The 4-Year Plan. Sadly for other keepers they won't be playing any games (bar injury) until Shay passes 35. Ah, sure we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, what!

DaBreno

Mighty Keano Speaketh and Lo! There was much debate about the land. Not really. Yawn........

Sick and tired tbh. I thought his Anti-Cork bias rant hit a low point for the Cobh Gob but he has surpassed himself here. Well done Roy, always pushing yourself. An snide dig on our best player, nice one. All Im waiting for is our exalted exile to tell us how he hopes Ireland loses their next game.

"I've always thought, when it comes to the lads who travel all the time, give them a game" :rolleyes: What would you know about lads who travel all the time Sicknote? An acute Itchiness of the instep. FFS!

leninbenjamin

Fanny Cradock wrote:

Has Football Manager 2007 taught you nothing? Goalkeepers tend to reach their peek between the ages of 32-35. Now, using my mathematical abilities, *divide the 3... carry the 1... pi R squared*, I calculate that Shay is firmly established in *dramatic voice* The 4-Year Plan. Sadly for other keepers they won't be playing any games (bar injury) until Shay passes 35. Ah, sure we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, what!

one little thing to note... Shay gets injured quite a lot for a goalkeeper (i blame the Newcastle defense for making him have to work so hard). I've a feeling he won't have the longevity that we might usually expect from a goalkeeper his calibre. and i woulnd't be surprised if he does a "retire from internationals to prolong cub career job". it wont happen anytime soon, but it could happen before most might expect.

smashey

Shay Given was relatively lucky with injuries until this season. He is very committed to playing for Ireland, something Keane doesn't seem to understand.

nollaig

While I dont think Keane should have said what he did, there is an element of truth behind this. A few years back, we had Dean Kiely as out no.2. At the time, he was probably the second best goalie in the premiership behind Given and he retired from internationals because all he was doing was sitting on the bench.
Maybe, if he had been played in friendlies, then he would have stuck around and we'd have a top class no.2.
Then again, you can argue that friendlies are there to prepare and whats the point of playing a team that you wont play in a competitve match?

PHB

Given is getting on in years, and while goalies go a long time, they get injuries more frequently. VDS has been injured 3 times this year, and while they were only little ones, missing a match here and there, if that happens to Given, he will miss a set of matches, and we will be ****ed.

ntlbell

DaBreno wrote:

"I've always thought, when it comes to the lads who travel all the time, give them a game" :rolleyes: What would you know about lads who travel all the time Sicknote? An acute Itchiness of the instep. FFS!

The Anti Keanoisim on this board is getting tiresome.

Why on earth as an Irish manager would you want RK to travel for friendlies when no manager that I can remember ever used them correctly. what do you learn from playing RK in a friendly?

RK spent most of his playing career playing under two of the most successfull managers in Britain.

I agree with Roy shay plays far too many games and should never ever be seen playing a friendly for Ireland, Like Roy you know what you're going to get with shay 110% every game, playing him friendlies is moronic.

Running Bing

"Keane said: 'I think players have agendas - certain players come over all the time no matter what."


Because maybe they love representing their country and get pride out of it instead of representing a multi-million dollar public club(which Keane turned his back on the moment things got tough.)



Watching Giggs on saturday made me sick, it was an insult to the welsh fans. But I suppose Roy would agree with that becuase he is saving himself for "real football" i.e the one where you get vip treatment and get paid 80,000 a week. Gob****e of the highest order.

event

ntlbell wrote:

The Anti Keanoisim on this board is getting tiresome.

Why on earth as an Irish manager would you want RK to travel for friendlies when no manager that I can remember ever used them correctly. what do you learn from playing RK in a friendly?

RK spent most of his playing career playing under two of the most successfull managers in Britain.

I agree with Roy shay plays far too many games and should never ever be seen playing a friendly for Ireland, Like Roy you know what you're going to get with shay 110% every game, playing him friendlies is moronic.

good lord

do people not realise, keepers need to play a lot of the time

in a friendly, the manager may want to play some new members of a back four, as in a new centre half alongside richard dunne. To do thsi, he would really have to play Given, as given will have to learn how his new centre half is going to play and the new centre half will have to learn as well

you do not (or should not) play perhaps two new members of a back four, and a new keeper. then in a competive game, inroduce those new defenders to the keeper first time?

would be madness

stooge

kaisersose77 wrote:

on the subject of roy keane

"Goram also spoke candidly about his early career, his time at Rangers, and his experience at Manchester United, where Irish international Roy Keane refused to speak to him when he arrived at Old Trafford."


I wonder why.......



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/6501037.stm

you wonder why?
firstly he's an ex rangers scumbag who hates celtic.
Secondly hes a schizophrenic so you would never know which of his personalities youre talking to anyway.
Lastly, he had very close ties to loyalist paramilitary groups in northern ireland, once wore a black armband when king rat billy wright was killed and was also recorded singing loyalist songs and holding up orang order flags.

...now....i wonder why roy wasnt keane to talk to him...:rolleyes:


back on topic.... I was recently at an international friendly and was surprised to see how many of the 'big' players were not really interested. it was more of the fringe players who were giving 100%. Playing for your country is a great honour but friendlies sometimes are a bit below the big players.

Kingp35

event wrote:

good lord

do people not realise, keepers need to play a lot of the time

in a friendly, the manager may want to play some new members of a back four, as in a new centre half alongside richard dunne. To do thsi, he would really have to play Given, as given will have to learn how his new centre half is going to play and the new centre half will have to learn as well

you do not (or should not) play perhaps two new members of a back four, and a new keeper. then in a competive game, inroduce those new defenders to the keeper first time?

would be madness

Finally a bit of sense on this thread. Friendly games are not there purely to try out new players. They are also there to give the team more experience playing together so they know exactly how their team mates play. You cant go introducing loads of new players and then when it comes to a competitive game throw in one or two of those new players in with the regulars with the regulars never having played with them before. Thats just asking for trouble.

The Goalkeeper and the defence are the most important positions when it comes to this because they need to know how each other play so they can communicate properly.

Fanny Cradock

event wrote:

good lord

do people not realise, keepers need to play a lot of the time

in a friendly, the manager may want to play some new members of a back four, as in a new centre half alongside richard dunne. To do thsi, he would really have to play Given, as given will have to learn how his new centre half is going to play and the new centre half will have to learn as well

you do not (or should not) play perhaps two new members of a back four, and a new keeper. then in a competive game, inroduce those new defenders to the keeper first time?

would be madness

The point being made was that Shay does play a lot of the time. Too much in fact! Your argument about the new centre back is flawed as it could easily apply to any position on the pitch, INCLUDING the goalkeeper, which, to reiterate, is the whole point of playing someone else for a change!

By your thinking we should play Given until he gets injured or retires and then throw an untested and inexperienced keeper in and pray that he does the job in a qualifier. Now that would indeed be madness!

Kingp35

Fanny Cradock wrote:

The point being made was that Shay does play a lot of the time. Too much in fact! Your argument about the new centre back is flawed as it could easily apply to any position on the pitch, INCLUDING the goalkeeper, which, to reiterate, is the whole point of playing someone else for a change!

By your thinking we should play Given until he gets injured or retires and then throw an untested and inexperienced keeper in and pray that he does the job in a qualifier. Now that would indeed be madness!

No your missing the point. Keane was giving out that Given comes over for every friendly and gets his game. There is nothing wrong with starting Given and then bringing on the new guy for the last half hour or so. Keane seems to have a problem with that though for some unknown reason. As I said you need to play your regulars with the new guys so that they can build up an understanding. Your asking for trouble if you start playing players who have never played before in competitive games.

ntlbell

Kingp35 wrote:

No your missing the point. Keane was giving out that Given comes over for every friendly and gets his game. There is nothing wrong with starting Given and then bringing on the new guy for the last half hour or so. Keane seems to have a problem with that though for some unknown reason. As I said you need to play your regulars with the new guys so that they can build up an understanding. Your asking for trouble if you start playing players who have never played before in competitive games.

Friendlies are no more than a glorified training session and are probably less competitive than a training ground match.

Kingp35

ntlbell wrote:

Friendlies are no more than a glorified training session and are probably less competitive than a training ground match.

But your still playing against an opposition that you wouldnt usually play against so your obviously going to learn more playing against unfamiliar players than among yourselves.

eirebhoy

stooge wrote:

you wonder why?

http://www.uloc.de/screenshots/a/aabf18_sarcasm_detector.jpg

Fanny Cradock

Kingp35 wrote:

As I said you need to play your regulars with the new guys so that they can build up an understanding. Your asking for trouble if you start playing players who have never played before in competitive games.

So you concede that you need to add new players at some stage, but at the same time you seem to think that the goalkeeping position is sacrosanct and should never be replaced. I don't believe anything but friendlies had been mentioned, so why mention competitive games ?

Fanny Cradock

Kingp35 wrote:

But your still playing against an opposition that you wouldnt usually play against so your obviously going to learn more playing against unfamiliar players than among yourselves.

Explain to me what it is exactly are you going to learn about someone like Shay (or any established member) from a friendly game against >insert opposition here< that you haven't learnt in his previous 80 outings?

super_furry

As was said before if Keane burnt down an orphanage, people here would still be saying: "Well fair play to Roy, he's done well in pointing out that their fire safety standards weren't up to scratch."

ntlbell

Kingp35 wrote:

But your still playing against an opposition that you wouldnt usually play against so your obviously going to learn more playing against unfamiliar players than among yourselves.

You learn very little.

If you're a striker your movment/running off the ball isn't very well tracked in friendlies, your not tested in anyway you learn _nothing_

You would learn as much by inviting local school boy teams to train with you.

pointless.

ntlbell

super_furry wrote:

As was said before if Keane burnt down an orphanage, people here would still be saying: "Well fair play to Roy, he's done well in pointing out that their fire safety standards weren't up to scratch."

Yes, pointing out the flaws in the FAI, causing huge changes to how things are run now and for the kids of Irelands future and in the mean time missing out on his last chance to play in a world cup like he did for untied by putting the team first and missing out in playing the champions leage final for the TEAM is exactly like burning an orphange.

Well played sir.

herbieflowers

Maybe Given just likes reprenting his country...regardless, I know I would

kaisersose77

stooge wrote:

you wonder why?
firstly he's an ex rangers scumbag who hates celtic.
Secondly hes a schizophrenic so you would never know which of his personalities youre talking to anyway.
Lastly, he had very close ties to loyalist paramilitary groups in northern ireland, once wore a black armband when king rat billy wright was killed and was also recorded singing loyalist songs and holding up orang order flags.

and heres me thinking he was a famous celtic goalkeeper.... :rolleyes:

Fanny Cradock

I know I shouldn't have, but the Celitcs supporter's jibe of 'there's only two Andy Gorams, two Andy Gorams...' did make me laugh.

Kingp35

Fanny Cradock wrote:

So you concede that you need to add new players at some stage, but at the same time you seem to think that the goalkeeping position is sacrosanct and should never be replaced. I don't believe anything but friendlies had been mentioned, so why mention competitive games ?

Of course you have to add new players but as i said you need to play your regulars with them as well so if you were bringing in lets say two new centre back you would be better off starting your regular goalkeeper so he gets some playing time with that new centre back and then if you have a new goalkeeper that you want to try out as well then bring him on for the last half hour or so. That way all your basis are covered. Both the new centre back and goalkeeper have got a chance and your regular goalkeeper also has some insight into how the new centre back plays in a proper game. Do you not think that makes sense? I mentioned competitive games because friendlies are the "practice" matches for competitive games and should be used as practice games but in the right way.

Fanny Cradock wrote:

Explain to me what it is exactly are you going to learn about someone like Shay (or any established member) from a friendly game against >insert opposition here< that you haven't learnt in his previous 80 outings?

Look use some sense here. If there are no new defensive players playing in the friendly game then I see no harm in playing another goalkeeper and maybe you should give another keeper a chance. However if there are new defensive players playing then Given should be getting playing time so he can learn about that new player. Its not what we learn about Given but its what Given learns about the new player.

The Muppet

super_furry wrote:

As was said before if Keane burnt down an orphanage, people here would still be saying: "Well fair play to Roy, he's done well in pointing out that their fire safety standards weren't up to scratch."

Possibly , but on the other hand if he built an orphanage there would be the usual people on here putting a negative spin on it. As someone else said above the anti keane bias on this alledged soccer forum is boring.

Keane is just as entitled to express his opinion on the Irish setup as the rest of us.

event

Fanny Cradock wrote:

Explain to me what it is exactly are you going to learn about someone like Shay (or any established member) from a friendly game against >insert opposition here< that you haven't learnt in his previous 80 outings?

its not about learning anything about shay, its about building up a relationship with the new members of a defence

if there is a new member of a defence being played, shay should play

if not, i agree he someone else should play