Man Running for Women's Officer

elmyra

pretty*monster wrote:

If they want one, though I haven't noticed racism to be a problem on campus.
One could argue that since the irish students in ucd are overwhelmingly white (and the international students already have an international students officer) there aren't enough black or traveller students to generate work for a 'black officer' or 'travellers officer'.

yeah and there aren't enough downtrodden women to generate work for a women's officer

panda100

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Yes, The welfare isnt a councillor either. They're more of a directory of services.

They raise awareness of issues and liaise with relevent authorities.

Which is exactly what the womens officer is. Neither the welfare officer or women officers are 'councillors'.Neither would be able to consult a women or man through a serious crisis. All they are there for is guidance, direction of services and a sympathetic ear/shoulder for a student to lean on. To have only one officer to provide 22,000 students with that service though is unfair on the students and the welfare officer. The welfare officer needs the womens officer as backup and to delegate other serious camapigns/personal cases too.

I do agree that the title of the role should be altered but not to 'equality officer'. The welfare office needs more suport and the womens officer provides this.

Tricity Bendix

pretty*monster wrote:

Here's the press release of the ERSI's research of the gender pay gap among graduates.

http://www.esri.ie/news_events/press_releases_archive/2005/degrees_of_equality_gende/index.xml

Several key points:
Within the private sector female graduates were found to earn 8% less per hour than male graduates. Within the public sector there was no significant gender difference in hourly pay.

A higher proportion of men than women have received bonuses from their employers in the last 12 months. 42% of male graduates received bonuses compared to 32% of female graduates. This was mainly but not entirely due to men’s higher concentration in the private sector.

The value of bonuses received was 25% higher among male graduates.

Subject choice and working in female-dominated occupations are found to play a significant role in the gender pay gap in the private sector.

Men in the private sector also receive higher rewards for their qualifications and better returns to previous experience, which could not be explained by difference in personal, educational or organisational characteristics and points to the possibility of indirect discrimination.

What can a Women's Officer do to effect change? What happens following graduation hardly falls under the remit of a SU officer. In fact, even those women who manage to hold down a job and go to college would be far better off seeking advice from the Equality Authority. The only role for a Women's Officer in this scenario would be to act as a liason with the EA.

mloc

panda100 wrote:

Doesn't that make the welfare officer defunct too?

In terms of providing one to one counselling for individuals, yes, it does.

But that's not what its there for. It's there to raise awareness of issues in the broader sense. And my point is, if that's what the women's officer does for women, why isn't there a men's officer counterpart?

TheVan

Good Jesus!

Two things....

1. There seems to be two threads going....Chakar and some other people banging on about something that should be in the politics forum, and the legitimate discussion.....lads....feck off!!*

2. Does anyone here actually know Dave Jones?! Really, if you do, you should realise he's probably doing this for some attention/bet/to start rows like this/prove a point to someone!

And anyway, erectile dysfuntion is a "man's issue" and we don't have an officer for us? Any "women's issues" can be covered by the Welfare Officer and student advisers and if women want to protest against some injustice UCD has served on them we have things like...Employment Appeals Tribunal etc....which of course the Welfare office could tell you about!








* said in the least personal and abusive manner possible!

elmyra

TheVan wrote:

Good Jesus!

Two things....

1. There seems to be two threads going....Chakar and some other people banging on about something that should be in the politics forum, and the legitimate discussion.....lads....feck off!!*

2. Does anyone here actually know Dave Jones?! Really, if you do, you should realise he's probably doing this for some attention/bet/to start rows like this/prove a point to someone!

And anyway, erectile dysfuntion is a "man's issue" and we don't have an officer for us? Any "women's issues" can be covered by the Welfare Officer and student advisers and if women want to protest against some injustice UCD has served on them we have things like...Employment Appeals Tribunal etc....which of course the Welfare office could tell you about!








* said in the least personal and abusive manner possible!

Yep, I know him.

TheVan

wrote:

Yep, I know him.

Rhetorical Jim, rhetorical

elmyra

TheVan wrote:

Rhetorical Jim, rhetorical

I know, I was being flippant.

I was also toying with 'Can anyone ever really know David Jones? Really?!'

Sangre

Sure women have it terrible altogether, no wonder they're always committing suicide.

Byrno

Sangre wrote:

Sure women have it terrible altogether, no wonder they're always committing suicide.

OK, I will presume this is your twisted sense of humour but :eek:

Women have a higher rate of "attempted" or para- suicide, men have a higher rate of "successful" suicide. Suicide is also a major killer, especially in the college-going age group. In fact suicide rates are higher than road deaths.

gubbie

panda100 wrote:

Which is exactly what the womens officer is. Neither the welfare officer or women officers are 'councillors'.Neither would be able to consult a women or man through a serious crisis. All they are there for is guidance, direction of services and a sympathetic ear/shoulder for a student to lean on. To have only one officer to provide 22,000 students with that service though is unfair on the students and the welfare officer. The welfare officer needs the womens officer as backup and to delegate other serious camapigns/personal cases too.

I do agree that the title of the role should be altered but not to 'equality officer'. The welfare office needs more suport and the womens officer provides this.

So basicly they're a complete random stranger that you might as well stop in the street and tell (well I suppose you do have to ring ahead) The only difference between them and the WO is the WO has been told not to tell anyone

Red Alert

Minority Support Officer?

The big problem with the women's officer is that it is saying that I a as a male student should support this position even though by its very definition it does not support me. In fact, some of the more militant proponents of the women's officer like pretty*monster, wish the office to address wider perceived injustices in society. Not worth a sabbat office IMHO.

hullaballoo

Byrno, at the rate you report posts, and notably Sangre's posts, I think you should reconsider what the internet is about. I mean, if you can't handle something slightly drole or facetious, you really shouldn't be here.

dajaffa

hullaball&#250 wrote:

Byrno, at the rate you report posts, and notably Sangre's posts, I think you should reconsider what the internet is about. I mean, if you can't handle something slightly drole or facetious, you really shouldn't be here.

If you're referring to the suicide comment I'm with Byrno on this one, completely insensitive.

panda100

Before continuing to contribute to this thread I should say that I,Elisa O'Donovan/Panda am running for womens officer this year.

Some of you may be suprised by this as I have been avidily against this position for many years now. However over the last year I have been thinking more and more of this position and its function in UCD life.Its become clear to me that I do believe there is a desperate need for this officer in Belfield but It has never been used properly and effectively so far in its history.

I think before we do anything crazy like abolish this position or naively change its name to 'equality officer' for good we should use the position to the best of its ability.This means stepping beyond the womens officers job Desription in the SU constitution and for once really tackle the problems that face women in Irish Society today.

Over the last three weeks as I have collected my signatures around the mater hospital I have been amazed at the positive reaction the womens officer postion has recieved. Both male and female students who have never heared of the position before have been enthusiastic and positive about what this position can acheieve.

It is my aim that by the end of May 2008 to not abolish the position but change its function as written in the su constitution to make it more then just a position that flogs personal saftey alarns and holds a fundraising event.

One thing I decided along time ago is that Im not going to lie to the students of UCD in these elections. Im not going to pack my manifesto with unachievable goals and empty promises that we see year in year out from every other person running for a union position. I am runing on 4 core acheivable Issues.
1)Stricter legislation for crisis pregancny agencys
2)Positive body image campaign (in assoc with Dove)
2)More,better,stronger and more evident mental health campaigning and hopefully making it easier for people to talk by being the first executive officer to hold evening hours.
3)Fundraising for Bodywhys,The only eating disorders agency in Ireland that receives no funding from the goverment,yet deals with over 3000 male and female victims of bullimia and anorexia each year.

Along side these I hope to run a big event for womens day and throughout the year where inspirational women such as Mary Robinson,Derval O'Rouke,Miriam O'Callaghan and other positive role models speak to the women of UCD.

I think the fact that in the last 10years there has been only 7 female sabbatical officers and a staggering 35 male officers that there is a desperate need for more womens representaion within the union.

Red Alert

Noble aims, but where does the bill for this plan to come from? Should those who are not represented by this office foot the 'bill' for it? (By bill i'm not simply meaning money - i mean the resource bill for it)

All of the other officers represent areas of interest which are applicable to most UCD students. The women's officer by its definition restricts itself to one (large) subset of the UCD population.

The_Minister

Byrno wrote:

Women have a higher rate of "attempted" or para- suicide, men have a higher rate of "successful" suicide.

Yet another thing that men are better than women at.

panda100

panda100 wrote:

I think the fact that in the last 10years there has been only 7 female sabbatical officers and a staggering 35 male officers that there is a desperate need for more womens representaion within the union.

What barriers currently exist to running in the sabbatical elections that are based on gender? If people decide not to run, then they decide not to run. Similarly, the 42 officers above were democratically elected by men and women of UCD.

Red Alert

Presumably one wouldn't want to pervert democracy by forcibly including women!

pretty*monster

Myth wrote:

What barriers currently exist to running in the sabbatical elections that are based on gender? If people decide not to run, then they decide not to run. Similarly, the 42 officers above were democratically elected by men and women of UCD.

Straw man. Panda did not suggest that the male officers were not democratically elected. Nor did she suggest that women are activly barred from running for office. However I cannot understand why an indivudual with a mind capable of speculative inquiry would not look at the situation and ask, why is it that women tend not to run for sabatical positions? or Why is it that when they run they tend to be beated by their male opponents?
These are questions that deserve more attention.

Red Alert wrote:

The big problem with the women's officer is that it is saying that I a as a male student should support this position even though by its very definition it does not support me. In fact, some of the more militant proponents of the women's officer like pretty*monster, wish the office to address wider perceived injustices in society. Not worth a sabbat office IMHO.

It's not a sabatical possition.
Most problems that occure in univesities have their root in the wider world, things don't happen in a vacume. In order for the women's office to function effectivly it must engage with the wider world in one way or another.
Your argument about the womens office shows an amazing level of selfishness when applied to the wider world.
I mean, good heavens, the accomodation office doesn't support me since I live with my parents, and yet I am expected to support is, the nerve! The international students officer, the lgbtro, complete madness! Down with this sort of thing!

b.ie curious wrote:

What can a Women's Officer do to effect change? What happens following graduation hardly falls under the remit of a SU officer. In fact, even those women who manage to hold down a job and go to college would be far better off seeking advice from the Equality Authority. The only role for a Women's Officer in this scenario would be to act as a liason with the EA.

I don;t expect her to sweep in like Wonder Woman and set things to right, but she should make sure that this information is out there. I mean, hands up, who else on this thread was aware of the report I cited? It got a tiny mention in the Irish Times when it came out and I certainly never heard of it again.
Students should be made aware of these things in university, if nothing else fore-warned is fore-armed. Nothing is likely to change if famle students continue to be complacent about the gender gap, perhaps once more people are informed some bright spark will come up with a solution.

tintinr35

was there not a massive thread about this, probably exactly the same time last year no?

Blowfish

panda100 wrote:

I think the fact that in the last 10years there has been only 7 female sabbatical officers and a staggering 35 male officers that there is a desperate need for more womens representaion within the union.

I'd put that down to women having more sense.
>_>

The_Minister

tintinr35 wrote:

was there not a massive thread about this, probably exactly the same time last year no?

I went back to ayear ago, just to see if I could find it. There are so many great threads that I had forgotten:
1)The scraggs rumour mill
2)UCD Supermodels http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054919653
etc
I'd forgotten what a little brat I was here:D I can't believe I ever typed "Enda (excuse the capital) Duffy.

EDIT:I even found the post that got me involved in the union! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=50955978&postcount=41
Edit: My first thread on boards http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054886761
EDIT: Found the funniest thread ever! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054876968

EDIT:!!!Found it!!!!

themole

pretty*monster wrote:

However I cannot understand why an indivudual with a mind capable of speculative inquiry would not look at the situation and ask, why is it that women tend not to run for sabatical positions? or Why is it that when they run they tend to be beated by their male opponents?
These are questions that deserve more attention.

Why?

Maybe most women are not interested in running for the SU, why is that a bad thing? Does that suggest there is a problem?

My position in the current thread is that there may well be a need for a womens officer, but there is also a need for a mens officer. If you can see there being a difference between men and women, so much so that there should be a position devoted to womens needs, then how can you not see that there is also a real need for an officer devoted to mens needs.

Trying to overcome prejudice and inequality by introducing more inequality but in the opposite direction is hardly progress.

Your argument about the womens office shows an amazing level of selfishness when applied to the wider world.
I mean, good heavens, the accomodation office doesn't support me since I live with my parents, and yet I am expected to support is, the nerve! The international students officer, the lgbtro, complete madness! Down with this sort of thing!

The point he is making is that n most of the other situations there is a possibility of him using the other officers, but no possibility, barring a sex change, of requiring the assistance of the womens officer.

tintinr35

bla bla bla who cares if its a man or a woman doing the job anyway, its pointless and ineffective, (like most of the SU positions)

Dontico

dajaffa wrote:

If you're referring to the suicide comment I'm with Byrno on this one, completely insensitive.

He was highlighting a very serious problem that is being neglected by both the gov and the SU.

dajaffa

Dontico wrote:

He was highlighting a very serious problem that is being neglected by both the gov and the SU.

True, but the way it was phrased was extremely distasteful imo

Dontico

The idea of David jones running is good, but I dont think he is actually running.

Stabshauptmann

pretty*monster wrote:

Straw man. Panda did not suggest that the male officers were not democratically elected. Nor did she suggest that women are activly barred from running for office. However I cannot understand why an indivudual with a mind capable of speculative inquiry would not look at the situation and ask, why is it that women tend not to run for sabatical positions? or Why is it that when they run they tend to be beated by their male opponents?

A rare example of a double straw man, that is, attributing a straw man argument to your opponent in a bid to confuse everyone and distract them from your own misrepresentations.:p

I think you've drawn some extreme conclusions from a rather innocent post.

Panda cited the statistical under representation of women at sabbat level as a problem the Women's Officer needs to address, and all Myth said was "why?".

Since all sabbats are elected, Myth made a fair point, What barriers currently exist to running in the sabbatical elections that are based on gender?
The lack of women at the top [sic] of the SU isnt evidence of discrimination in and of itself.

While men and women definitely deserve equal opportunities and rights, I dont think we should forget that men and women are different and there are a lot more and better answers as to why few women run for sabbat than gender discrimination.

I dont think the % of women in ucd who intend to become stay at home mothers is a problem the women officer needs to address.

tintinr35

in a Uni with c20,000 students when only one person even runs for president etc i think it shows how indifferent the majority of the student body feel about the SU and what they claim to do.