Future of the Setanta Sports Cup

gimmick

As its looking like, barring a minor miracle, only one NI team will contest the semis again, does the Setanta Cup, in its current format have a future?

Now, given the manner of some of the defeats administered by LOI teams to IL teams, and the poor attendences in the North, will the IL teams, apart from Linfield, even want to compete in this competition? Cork City scored 11 without reply against a supposedly decent Portadown team. SPA scored 3 against them in the first game. Somehow Dugannon scored twice at home to SPA, but normality came back when SPA put 5 past them without reply the other day.

Linfield seem to be the only Northern team capable of anything from that league. They are currently behing Drogs and ahead of Derry in their, admittedly way tougher, group. Even at that though, ther eis a very real possibility of the 4 LOI clubs contesting the semis.

Any suggestions?

_blank_

Well, it was a week of bad results for the NI teams, that's all.

I mean, Linfield have won this competition, so it's not as these type of scorelines happen every week.

Maybe if it was at a different time of the year it might work better?

The Irish League needs to move to Summer Football though.

Actually, the best solution is to scrap the SSC and go with an All-Island league. But the buffoons that run football both North and South of the border won't let that happen.

DerekD Goldfish

Solutions
A)Give northie teams a 2 goal lead
Southern teams start with 10 players
C) Allow Welsh teams in so the northies can win the odd game

gimmick

The tables dont lie, and they didnt either last season.

The fact that in the 3 years, only Linfirld have caused any problems to the LOI teams suggests that the others are going nowhere. Add the fact that this competition is being played at a time when the LOI teams are still getting back to full fitness, suggests that the gap is getting bigger.

Also, there were 150 people at the Portadown / City game on Monday, 30 of which were City fans. The attendences have been awful up north, and so far, not great at The Cross (less than half the league gate Vs Galway).

DerekD Goldfish

Indeed it was a nice idea but it doesnt seem to be working Pats got 1200 at home against dungannon down 600 from the previous friday and thats even with us in great form and our first time in the competition.
Just scap it so Pats can go down as the last ever winners of the Ill fated setanta cup.

_blank_

The fact that it's on on Monday and Tuesday night isn't helping attendances imo.

Yeah, get the Welshies in too.

Zebra3

They shouldn't have allowed us to withdraw.

That would have balanced it up a bit!!!

Dr Galen

is there any reason we couldn't get the Welsh involved? Would they even be interested, admittedly i know next to nothing about Welsh league football. does anyone here? whats the standard like?

John_C

Is this not why we're entering our first division / league cup winners?

eirebhoy

seansouth wrote:

The fact that it's on on Monday and Tuesday night isn't helping attendances imo.

I never understand that. I can think of a few things I'd be doing on a Friday night but what would the fans be doing on a Monday or Tuesday night when they don't go? Watch teletext? Week days are great nights for football. Breaks up the week and you're not just looking forward to the weekend.

KdjaCL

John_C wrote:

Is this not why we're entering our first division / league cup winners?

That was a carrot to vote for the FAI merger.

The SSC is fine if your on this side of the border we actually give a **** pats attd is 400 less than on a friday. Corks was fairly high when we played them so its not us thats killing it.

Nordie teams just arent arsed in improving themselves, i was worried we would have fitness or lack of match fitness issues but we have coped well

Setanta getting people to watch the games but lack of other matches goals is stupid, the only thing i can see to improve it is for it to be on weekend nights. Weekdays suit me pats twice a week is deadly but not everyone agrees mainly the nordies.

Altho Gimmick mentions Linfield getting into semis i would be hoping to avoid them as the IL teams are poor, Linfield would beat any EL team (even cork :O).


kdjac

gimmick

I certainly wouldnt like a trip to Belfast to play Linfield in a semi, but we are all assuming they will win their group. With 2 games to play, its wide open still.

I would like to see them come to Cork, but the only problem there, predictably, is the muppet situation in their Celtic jersies etc etc etc.

KdjaCL

So the future of the SSC is mainly an IL problem.

The celtic gimps bit is correct but it has to happen and it has to be controlled by the police as it is the biggest obstacle to an all ireland league and the future of SSC. I know Pats schooligans number will quadruple if we get linfield at home but it has to be controlled.

Great thing is us being in it has changed it completley the teams in it are usually very solid defensivley and the games really were poor, but our idea of a solid defence is throwing Maguire at any ball coming into the box and trying to play passing attacking football, granted we wont beat a good solid team but we entertain trying.



kdjac

Bateman

The only future for football on either side of the border in the country is for an all-Ireland league. How long it is going to be before we have one is anyone's guess, but hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later, relatively speaking.

KdjaCL

Bateman wrote:

The only future for football on either side of the border in the country is for an all-Ireland league. How long it is going to be before we have one is anyone's guess, but hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later, relatively speaking.

How do you figure that? It would be good but the EL would survive without the IL. Its if the IL is ambitious enough to want to raise their own standard that matters.

I dont think any EL side would be better for it but i think some IL teams would get better if they played better teams every week.

Bohs Cork Drogs and Derry Athlone Dundalk Galway etc will be move forward regardless of any IL involvment.


kdjac

Bateman

KdjaCL wrote:

How do you figure that? It would be good but the EL would survive without the IL. Its if the IL is ambitious enough to want to raise their own standard that matters.

I dont think any EL side would be better for it but i think some IL teams would get better if they played better teams every week.

Bohs Cork Drogs and Derry Athlone Dundalk Galway etc will be move forward regardless of any IL involvment.


kdjac

"Surviving" isn't enough though. Maybe some clus are moving forward maybe they're not, either way if they are moving forward they're not moving fast enough.

Töpher

eirebhoy wrote:

I never understand that. I can think of a few things I'd be doing on a Friday night but what would the fans be doing on a Monday or Tuesday night when they don't go? Watch teletext? Week days are great nights for football. Breaks up the week and you're not just looking forward to the weekend.

Perhaps, but a trip from Cork to Belfast (or something) on a Monday night would require time off work on the Monday, and involve a wretched Tuesday (result depending! ).

That said, thats what they get for being so far away!

Bateman

Einst&#252 wrote: »

Perhaps, but a trip from Cork to Belfast (or something) on a Monday night would require time off work on the Monday, and involve a wretched Tuesday (result depending! ).

That said, thats what they get for being so far away!

Change of avatar?

loyatemu

all-ireland league might be a good idea but I don't think it would make massive difference. you're not going to suddenly get 5-figure attendances just because Linfield and Glentoran are involved.

Maybe we should follow the US and Australian model - scrap the current leagues and sell 10 franchises for a new all-ireland league. Say, 2 Dublin, 2 Belfast, Cork, Derry, Galway, Waterford and 2 others. Get corporate sponsorship, put up decent prize money.

There were 70000 people in Croke Park on wednesday, and hundreds of thousands following the EPL and SPL. Theres a market there, but the LOI and IL will never get these fans into their grounds. Obviously existing fans would hate this idea though.

_blank_

loyatemu wrote:

Maybe we should follow the US and Australian model - scrap the current leagues and sell 10 franchises for a new all-ireland league. Say, 2 Dublin, 2 Belfast, Cork, Derry, Galway, Waterford and 2 others. Get corporate sponsorship, put up decent prize money.

lol.

loyatemu wrote:

There were 70000 people in Croke Park on wednesday, and hundreds of thousands following the EPL and SPL. Theres a market there, but the LOI and IL will never get these fans into their grounds. Obviously existing fans would hate this idea though.

The 70,000 people won't come to domestic football, no matter how you wrap it up and package it.

At the moment you have about ten thousand people who regularly attend proper live football matches in the two divisions in this country, why, oh why, do you want these people just thrown by the wayside.

I certainly wouldn't support Shelhemians, Bohsrock Rovers, St. Oliver's Athletic, North Dublin County, South Dublin Buccaneers, The Liffey Pirates, Dublin City or any other makey up team you can think about.

What happens to the club with HUNDREDS OF YEARS of history?

Franchise football is soulless, I can tell you that from first hand experience of the A-League.

Tell you what, if you want EPL and SPL type football, why don't we import one of the teams form there to play in the EPL?

Töpher

Bateman wrote:

Change of avatar?

Needed, but too lazy!

Zebra3

loyatemu wrote:

all-ireland league might be a good idea but I don't think it would make massive difference. you're not going to suddenly get 5-figure attendances just because Linfield and Glentoran are involved.

Maybe we should follow the US and Australian model - scrap the current leagues and sell 10 franchises for a new all-ireland league. Say, 2 Dublin, 2 Belfast, Cork, Derry, Galway, Waterford and 2 others. Get corporate sponsorship, put up decent prize money.

There were 70000 people in Croke Park on wednesday, and hundreds of thousands following the EPL and SPL. Theres a market there, but the LOI and IL will never get these fans into their grounds. Obviously existing fans would hate this idea though.

We already have four franchise teams in the league. That's enough.

bohsman

Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool and London should also scrap their clubs, imagine how many would turn up to a Glasgow v London match.

Zebra3

bohsman wrote:

Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool and London should also scrap their clubs, imagine how many would turn up to a Glasgow v London match.

Why not scrap every club and just have Europe versus the Rest of the World play each other every week? Imagine the demand to get tickets for those games!!!!

Raskolnikov

I think the competition should be abolished to be honest. I'd much rather see Setanta throw a few quid sponsorship in prize money for the FAI Cup. A place in Europe and lucrative prize money would be better for Setanta then some worthless, invented, cross-border trophy.

Also, Northern Ireland's league is going nowhere, infact, I'd even go as far as saying it's going backwards. You only have to look at their miserable performace in Europe this year http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/ccoef2007.html, they're ranked 50th out of the 52 UEFA members. Say what you like League of Ireland but at least we're making some bit of progress. On the other hand, the Northerners won't even play Sunday football because the religious right told them not to :rolleyes:

bohsman

In fairness Setanta are putting money into showing EL games aswell so if they want their own comp with good prizemoney all the better.

loyatemu

I'm not necessarily saying franchised football is the answer but something radical is needed. As you said - the 70000 from Croke Park will never attend a LOI match, but why not?

Even if only half of them regularly attended, it would still be a major improvement on the present situation. Other small countries manage to maintain viable leagues. The existing fans may be loyal but they haven't managed to prevent the clubs regularly running into financial difficulties, or to keep young players from emigrating to england and scotland.