Outragous hidden speed camera on the N3

Golferx

G-bo is hiding behind the word "illegal".

It is illegal to drive at 101kph in a 100kph zone, in fact it is as illegal to drive at 100kph as it is 201kph, if you want to look at it from a cold point of view.

It is also illegal to do many other things, for example, crossing a continuous white line (whether or not it is put down correctly) and , that old chestnut, driving with front fogs on in conditions other than fog or snow.

To berate one for exceeding the 100kph limit is showing an absolute ignorance of what constitutes safe driving. The recent accidents on the M9/M7 showed how accidents can happen when drivers were driving much too fast, without breaking any speed limits.

Marcus.Aurelius

Greebo, if you stick to your cherished speed limits so well, perhaps you should not be on a speed camera thread.

Valentia

Saruman wrote:

i mean its a dual carriageway and i doubt there have been too many fatal accidents there.

Unfortunately not true.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Golferx wrote:

G-bo is hiding behind the word "illegal"...

To berate one for exceeding the 100kph limit is showing an absolute ignorance of what constitutes safe driving...

What about the ignorance of thinking that each individual driver can decide what constitutes safe driving?

MAOLEARY wrote:

Greebo, if you stick to your cherished speed limits so well, perhaps you should not be on a speed camera thread.

I don't think it's purely a thread to alert those driving outside the speed limit that they may get caught at a particular location, but a discussion on the use of speed cameras be they fixed, mobile or covert. As such those who adhere to the speed limits, applaud the use of speed cameras, and delight in the increase in hidden cameras on our roads are as entitled to their opinion as any other road users. Or does that not apply here?

Mitch Connor

I have made my feelings on this matter clear at various points in both this, and other speed related threads.

However, I would love to hear what the full solution everyone else would offer up is? I mean a workable system that will catch dangerous drivers, people driving at an 'inappropriate' speed, the lot of it.

I have been trying to think of one, but there are flaws in every idea.

We all want the 'perfect' system, but i don't see how one can be created - the lione will always have to be drawn somewhere, and the law can not be a completely subjective entity.

So, for those unhappy with the current system, what would you replace it with? This is not a "put up or shut up" post - i am genuinely curious as to what people would propose, and if what they propose would actually be workable.

OldmanMondeo

The current system is only flawed because there is not enough Guard's and Camera's out there. As pointed out, most cameras are on Dual Carrigeway / motorways. The Check points are usually in the same places.

With regard to speed limits, yes some may well be inapproaite for that particular road, but most are fine are are usually discussed at council level if the issue is raised, usually because a number of accidents have happened on that section of road.

Stark

Tauren wrote:

So, for those unhappy with the current system, what would you replace it with? This is not a "put up or shut up" post - i am genuinely curious as to what people would propose, and if what they propose would actually be workable.

www.speedbandits.dk - Not Work Safe

Mitch Connor

OldmanMondeo wrote:

The current system is only flawed because there is not enough Guard's and Camera's out there. As pointed out, most cameras are on Dual Carrigeway / motorways. The Check points are usually in the same places.

With regard to speed limits, yes some may well be inapproaite for that particular road, but most are fine are are usually discussed at council level if the issue is raised, usually because a number of accidents have happened on that section of road.

This is part of my question though - how would people decide on a new appropriate speed for each section of the road? Without have a speed limit sign, displaying a new limit, every couple of hundred metres? What would they increase/decrease the limit to, and in what areas? What criteria would they use to decide on all this, and how would they deal with people who still transgress, but by small margins - and then where would the cut off point of that margin be?

OldmanMondeo

Tauren wrote:

This is part of my question though - how would people decide on a new appropriate speed for each section of the road? Without have a speed limit sign, displaying a new limit, every couple of hundred metres? What would they increase/decrease the limit to, and in what areas? What criteria would they use to decide on all this, and how would they deal with people who still transgress, but by small margins - and then where would the cut off point of that margin be?

Each new road should be set at a "considered" speed limit to suit the area. Should this limit seem inapproaite, ie. to slow or to many accidents, then it should be reviewed. Most, but not all, roads have a speed limit sign as you enter the road, this should be enough, changes alon the road shold be clearly signposted, not with those stupid little road signs, possibly road marking as well.

But hey, I'm no expert, just someone trying to get from A-B in a quick and safe mannor....

Marcus.Aurelius

OldmanMondeo wrote:

Each new road should be set at a "considered" speed limit to suit the area. Should this limit seem inapproaite, ie. to slow or to many accidents, then it should be reviewed. Most, but not all, roads have a speed limit sign as you enter the road, this should be enough, changes alon the road shold be clearly signposted, not with those stupid little road signs, possibly road marking as well.

But hey, I'm no expert, just someone trying to get from A-B in a quick and safe mannor....

well said. Review the N4 80 kph and upgrade the limit. Review half the roads in Kerry and downgrade!

Doesn't that make sense Bertie?

Mitch Connor

maoleary wrote:

well said. Review the N4 80 kph and upgrade the limit. Review half the roads in Kerry and downgrade!

Doesn't that make sense Bertie?

once you have done that, how will you police the roads? What measures would you change, or are the current ones acceptable - just the limits are wrong? Would you continue to issue fines and penalty points? Would you allow a margin of error with relation to speeding, if so, where would it be allowed, and what percentage? Or would the rules but hard and fast?

OldmanMondeo

maoleary wrote:

well said. Review the N4 80 kph and upgrade the limit. Review half the roads in Kerry and downgrade!

Doesn't that make sense Bertie?

This is were the problems will arise, I think the 80kph on the N4 is suitable, because the amount of deaths and accidents on that road over the last number of years and the fact that there is a lot of Farms / Houses on that road. You will have people complaining about any changes. Any changes will need to be carefully considered and explained to the public.

OldmanMondeo

Tauren wrote:

once you have done that, how will you police the roads? What measures would you change, or are the current ones acceptable - just the limits are wrong? Would you continue to issue fines and penalty points? Would you allow a margin of error with relation to speeding, if so, where would it be allowed, and what percentage? Or would the rules but hard and fast?

Extra Garda and extra camera. No margin, the limit is there, people should not be exceeding it. No excuse if the limits are clearly signposted and limits are set to suit the road.

People tend not to speed when they know the presence is there, take the N4 camera at Lucan, most people slow down below the limit.

Golferx

Tauren wrote:

This is part of my question though - how would people decide on a new appropriate speed for each section of the road? Without have a speed limit sign, displaying a new limit, every couple of hundred metres? What would they increase/decrease the limit to, and in what areas? What criteria would they use to decide on all this, and how would they deal with people who still transgress, but by small margins - and then where would the cut off point of that margin be?

How about looking at the rural roads in New Jersey, where each stretch and bend has it's appropriate speed limit posted?

W.r.t. the cost? We are forever being told how much each incident costs, so there's money to be saved and invested properly in Engineering our roads safely.

A speed limit, like any Law, should be a tool for use by the Authorities to enforce safe roads. A good Policemen/Garda would be able to differentiate between someone making safe progress and one who's driving endangers others. A bad Policemen/Garda will pull someone purely on the basis that the number on his gun exceeds some pre-defined number.

Educating drivers should be a priority. In Ireland, it is not. We have a Govt who pay lip-service to Road Safety, they don't really care. We have a Traffic Corps who are statistics driven, not safety driven. If they were Safety driven they would be at the side of our roads, in High visibility Cars and Clothing, instead we have them hiding behind bushes hoping people are speeding.

If they were Safety Driven there would be a 30kph limit outside all schools, rigorously enforced.
If they were Safety Driven they would be checking all school-going traffic for proper child-seats and seat-belts.
Has anyone ever been punished for non-wearing of a seat-belt in a school bus?

Look at our Drink-driving statistics. Apparently 400(odd) drivers were arrested last weekend. According to the Gardai that's 40% up on last year and a shocking statistic. Hell, 40% would be a big percentage if it wasn't for the fact they were working off a pitiful low number the year before. We have over 10,000 pubs in Ireland and the Gardai only apprehended 400 errand drivers? Tell me they are being rigorous in their enforcement.

Not one mention was made, by the advocates of strict speed limit application, about dangerous driving and the fact that accidents are caused by inappropriate speed, i,e, driving too fast for road conditions/traffic density etc. By, heck, it's all to easy to fall in behind the mantra that exceeding a speed limit is inherently dangerous. I said before, the best driver could safely negotiate from one end of the country to the other without having to look at a speedometer.


Until we have the relevant people recognising what actually constitutes dangerous driving we will continue to have inadequate policing and inadequate safety.

Marcus.Aurelius

Tauren wrote:

once you have done that, how will you police the roads? What measures would you change, or are the current ones acceptable - just the limits are wrong? Would you continue to issue fines and penalty points? Would you allow a margin of error with relation to speeding, if so, where would it be allowed, and what percentage? Or would the rules but hard and fast?

The government is there to listen to the will of the people, not the other way around. How you police it is irrelevant to me. I would drive within any sensible speed limit

Golferx

OldmanMondeo wrote:

Extra Garda and extra camera. No margin, the limit is there, people should not be exceeding it. No excuse if the limits are clearly signposted and limits are set to suit the road..............

Do you insist all Rules should be equally applied?

Do you agree all limits are "set to suit the road" ?

OldmanMondeo wrote:

.......................

People tend not to speed when they know the presence is there, take the N4 camera at Lucan, most people slow down below the limit.

Is that speed limit appropriate? Was is designed to take into account the road width, surface, camber?

Is 5kph over that limit dangerous?

Is 10kph over that limit dangerous?

Mitch Connor

OldmanMondeo wrote:

Extra Garda and extra camera. No margin, the limit is there, people should not be exceeding it. No excuse if the limits are clearly signposted and limits are set to suit the road.

People tend not to speed when they know the presence is there, take the N4 camera at Lucan, most people slow down below the limit.

but the question is aimed more at the posters (myself included) who feel some limits are too low. No matter how the limit is decided upon, there will be people that will feel going slightly over that, depending on the conditions, is not automatically unsafe - they obviously feel there is some margin of safety there, and i'm wondering how they would approach this, if they had the power to do so.

OldmanMondeo

Golferx wrote:

Do you insist all Rules should be equally applied?

Do you agree all limits are "set to suit the road" ?



Is that speed limit appropriate? Was is designed to take into account the road width, surface, camber?

Is 5kph over that limit dangerous?

Is 10kph over that limit dangerous?

Sorry my answer was spread over several posts. All road would need to be reviewed, taking everything into account, road condition, Houses, schools etc. If this was done, then the limits would be correct for the road.

But you would still have people saying its to low/high...