Is my gaphics card shagged?

Ronan H

Howayis... I can barely see the screen as i write this so excuse my spelling mistales if there are any. Would ye mind having a look at the pictures below and tell me if theres something wrong with my gpaphics card or whats going on? Sometimes the screen is like this, sometimes its not, when i restart it sometimes changed my display settings to 800x600 instead of 1024x768... Lots of weird stuff like that, i imagine it has to be the card but im not sure so any opinions would be great thanks.



Head

8T8

What operating system is that linux or some shell over Windows ?

OMcGovern

A few ideas...

Your monitor may not support the resolution plus refresh rate you selected. So try experimenting with the screen refresh rate.

Have you tried downloading the latest drivers for the card?

Is it Windows Vista ?
Maybe there aren't any Vista drivers for it.

Did you install any hardware recently in your PC?
Maybe your power supply is underpowered.
Or you may have knocked the graphics card out of the motherboard slot a little.

Does your graphics card have a fan attached? Is it working?
Maybe the fan failed, and it's overheating.

Oh, your graphics card could be shagged too... but I'd rule out all the other stuff first.

regards,
Owen

Ronan H

@ 8T8: Its Windows XP Home SP2 with some products from Stardock to customize the appearance. Im sick of the standard Windows "look"...

OMcGovern wrote:

A few ideas...

1. Your monitor may not support the resolution plus refresh rate you selected. So try experimenting with the screen refresh rate.

2. Have you tried downloading the latest drivers for the card?

3. Is it Windows Vista ?
Maybe there aren't any Vista drivers for it.

4. Did you install any hardware recently in your PC?
5. Maybe your power supply is underpowered.
6. Or you may have knocked the graphics card out of the motherboard slot a little.

7. Does your graphics card have a fan attached? Is it working?
Maybe the fan failed, and it's overheating.

Oh, your graphics card could be shagged too... but I'd rule out all the other stuff first.

regards,
Owen

Legend Owen thanks for that...

1. Its the same resolution and refresh rate ive been using for 4+years on the machine. Nothing has changed there...

2. Yes but it still happened...

3. No, see text at the start of this post to 8T8...

4. / 5. / 6. No, no changes there either...

7. Dont know about that, its a laptop so never have seen the card...

Im thinking the card is on its last legs because just a few minutes i got a blue screen (first one EVER on this machine, 5 years approx). Of course i couldnt read it coz of the lines on the screen though. I had to power off and re-boot to last known good configuration and then the Microsoft Error Reporting tool gave me the option of reporting to Microsoft, which i did, and it directed me to http://wer.microsoft.com/responses/Response.aspx/271/en-us/5.1.2600.2.00010300.2.0?SGD=145b1e65-21e5-4892-b82e-0c316f71652d which confirmed that it is an NVIDIA issue. Incidentally the screen is perfect now as i type this. So im gonna try once more on the updated drivers and see how that goes and then go and back up everything, just in case it goes belly up altogether.

Must say im impressed with the microsoft support on it, right on the money...

Thanks again, ill be back with more info as i get it...

Head

8T8

Well it may be a software issue if it is now okay prior to this problem had you updated the display drivers recently ?

As NVIDIA mobile GPU drivers can be very odd and require specially tweaked drivers in order to run properly e.g on Toshiba notebooks this is a common problem and newer drivers can cause all sorts of visual problems.



If it were a hardware problem:
If the machine is a laptop then you are in a bit of trouble as the GPU is usually integrated into the motherboard and is not removable.

It could be the cooler has failed on the graphics chip and it is overheating which is why you are getting the graphics corruption.

But it could also simply be some component related to the GPU is defective to which that cannot be repaired so you would need to send the laptop away for repair.

Ronan H

8T8 wrote:

Well it may be a software issue if it is now okay prior to this problem had you updated the display drivers recently ?

As NVIDIA mobile GPU drivers can be very odd and require specially tweaked drivers in order to run properly e.g on Toshiba notebooks this is a common problem and newer drivers can cause all sorts of visual problems.



If it were a hardware problem:
If the machine is a laptop then you are in a bit of trouble as the GPU is usually integrated into the motherboard and is not removable.

It could be the cooler has failed on the graphics chip and it is overheating which is why you are getting the graphics corruption.

But it could also simply be some component related to the GPU is defective to which that cannot be repaired so you would need to send the laptop away for repair.

Thanks for all that 8T8. Since my last post I've had another blue screen with the same Microsoft Reporting Tool thing. I have a question about that actually, when it blue screens the screen is also garbled, and this is about 20 seconds after the machine has been switched on after being off all night. Would that rule out overheating of the graphics chip as it has only been switched on?

Also just now i got a complete black screen and everything stopped. The DELL boot image came up, then the Windows XP loading screen with the progress bar, and then the screen went black and the hard drive activity stopped completely and nothing would respond. On this occasion the screen was perfect. I had to force the power off (10 seconds on the power button) and then switch on again and then everything loaded perfectly. This makes me wonder if the hard drive is acting up also because all activity stopped when the screen went black?

I'm trying to notice common events with each crash and i think that theres something else too. Theres a program called DesktopX from Stardock that i use to make icons and widgets etc... for the desktop and i am fairly sure that since the first time this happened, that program doesn't load on startup anymore. As in, my wife alerted me the first day the screen went funny, at this point DesktopX would have been loaded. I forced a power off and when the machine booted up DesktopX didn't load and seems to have been removed from the Startup List. This makes me think that that program has something to do with it? What you think? Is there such a scenario where Windows will stop a program from loading if it causes problems?

Im leaving DesktopX unloaded for now to see if i get any more garbled screens and ill see how that goes. However the black screen just now happened even with DesktopX unloaded...

Anyway, you seem to know your stuff about this kinda thing so if ya could stick with me on this thread for a bit that would be great. Ill keep bringing back more info. as it occurs. Thanks a million for your help...

And yes it is a laptop (

Ronan

Incidentally the NVIDIA website doesnt have drivers that support my graphics card any more, they referred me to manufacturer DELL and the driver they have is the most up to date one that i can find.

Ro

8T8

Yeah NVIDIA don't supply driver updates to mobile parts you have to use unofficial drivers altered to support them but if you are just using whatever Dell supply then it doesn't look to good.

If things are okay before loading the display driver that is an indicator something may be wrong with the GPU itself as the higher level functions of the GPU are only enabled when the driver is installed so it looks like something is not working.

Desktop X I am familiar with and is unlikely to be related or the cause of the problem.

Check the RAM of the notebook with Memtest+ use Imgburn to burn the ISO to a CD and boot from the CD. This will test the system RAM for errors in case something is wrong with it as this would be far more preferable as RAM is easy to replace (leave it run for 3-4 hours if a single error is logged then the RAM is bad).

Also as you have nothing to lose at this stage try a more recent NVIDIA display driver like this one download the "driver" file and the "modded INF" and over ride the INF in the extracted driver folder and run the setup.exe and see if the latest driver makes any difference, in all likely hood it wont.

Ronan H

8T8 wrote:

Yeah NVIDIA don't supply driver updates to mobile parts you have to use unofficial drivers altered to support them but if you are just using whatever Dell supply then it doesn't look to good.

If things are okay before loading the display driver that is an indicator something may be wrong with the GPU itself as the higher level functions of the GPU are only enabled when the driver is installed so it looks like something is not working.

Desktop X I am familiar with and is unlikely to be related or the cause of the problem.

Check the RAM of the notebook with Memtest+ use Imgburn to burn the ISO to a CD and boot from the CD. This will test the system RAM for errors in case something is wrong with it as this would be far more preferable as RAM is easy to replace (leave it run for 3-4 hours if a single error is logged then the RAM is bad).

Also as you have nothing to lose at this stage try a more recent NVIDIA display driver like this one download the "driver" file and the "modded INF" and over ride the INF in the extracted driver folder and run the setup.exe and see if the latest driver makes any difference, in all likely hood it wont.

Hello again...

Latest is as follows:

DesktopX ruled out as the problem as i got a garbled screen just a minute ago despite it not being in the hallowed statrup list...

Just now im going to try the updated driver with the modified INF file that you suggested and ill see how that goes for a few days or until i get errors, ill be back then... Thanks again for all your help with this!

Update: That didn't work. I installed as instructed and i got a garbled screen on restart, another one bites the dust!

Heres another thing that might be pertinent. When i get a blue screen error, switch off, and switch back on i get a screen giving me the option to load last known good configuration, and every time i choose that everything loads perfectly. Why is this i wonder? Whats different about when things boot up that way as opposed to a cold boot up from scratch? There must be different information being passed around in either situation, one works and the other causes a garbled screen... What do you make of that malarkey?

Ronan

8T8

Last known good config still works well that is odd.

Do you have system restore enabled ?

If so use the last known good config option at boot press F8 and it will display the menu go into system restore and look for a restore point that the system was okay prior to this problem occurring and restore to that point.

Don't worry you wont lose your personal data, now see if the system is okay on the next normal boot.

Ronan H

8T8 wrote:

Last known good config still works well that is odd.

Do you have system restore enabled ?

If so use the last known good config option at boot press F8 and it will display the menu go into system restore and look for a restore point that the system was okay prior to this problem occurring and restore to that point.

Don't worry you wont lose your personal data, now see if the system is okay on the next normal boot.

Yeah the last known etc... works consistently, every time i have a blue screen and i reboot, it boots perfect from the LKGC screen, that does seem a bit odd. It would be interesting to be able to trace what variables are flying around in both cases as im sure it would give some insight into whats happening...

Ive switched off System Restore a few years ago, it was taking up about 6GB of my hard drive and my system has always had rock solid stability so i figured i never needed it... Until now i had never had a blue screen!

I might run a virus check for the crack too, just in case, you never know what sort of madness people will come up with to cause hassle...

I hate those bloody onboard GPU ****e yokes, but i supose thats what you can expect for having the convenience of a portable machine... Is there any laptops these days that have separate graphics cards like desktop machines or is it all integrated now?

Ill have a go at the MemTest thing you suggested and see how that goes.

Ro

8T8

Yes do Memtest+ that is important to check.

Also back up your personal data with the last know good config option.

This is a very difficult one to nail down it could be a hardware problem or it could be some part of Windows is corrupted.

With your data backed up blow away the existing Windows install if you have the XP install CD or a recovery disc for the laptop so you get a clean install of Windows that will rule out whether it is a software or hardware problem once and for all.

As for laptops with removable GPU's well they do exist but not really practical as it is near impossible to get replacement units so it just means you would be sending the laptop away for repair anyway.

Ronan H

Tis a difficult one alright, with the mountains of resources out there on the net and help from people here i have always found it doable enough to sort out my laptop issues without much bother but this one is mad. Its the inconsistency of what is happening that makes it harder to nail down...

Anyway, MemTest+ has run for almost 4 hours without any errors so thats the RAM ruled out, a great little application by the way, thanks for the heads up on it!

Yeah i agree at this stage the next stage is to format and re-install everything. I have done so numerous times in the past just to keep things fresh and un-cluttered so its no bother, i just hate backing up everything, what a pain in the hole! Especially those bloody MP3s!

Anyway, it should give us a more or less definitive answer either way so ill get stuck into that ASAP and report back as per usual... Really appreciate you sticking with me on this!

Ro

Ronan H

:mad: I have spent the last few hours buying an external hard drive, backing up everything, formatting ze hard drive and reinstalling Windows XP. It installed perfectly and there was no garbled screens so i set about getting the machine up to date with Windows Update. The first set of updates, 4 in all, went OK, no garbled screen. The second set, 62 updates in all, took about an hour to install and after it had done so i was prompted to restart. When i did the machine came back on with a garbled / blue screen, as per the last few days... Nooooooooooooo!

I really thought it had worked!

Anyway, one of the updates was NVIDIA related so im uninstalling that currently and i will see how things go without it. Something tells me this is a hardware problem nonetheless and that uninstalling this NVIDIA stuff wont make any difference, but ill try anyway...

Assuming its a hardware issue, what are my options regarding getting it fixed? Is it even possible to get it fixed or does it mean a new mobo? I have no service contract with DELL at present but if i thought it would be expensive to fix i might get a year contract and fix it that way maybe? I dunno, its such a pity as this was an animal machine in its day!

Boo!

Ro

8T8

Well do if you can the clean install again but once the system is up and running go to windows update through the web browser (select custom) and look at the updates it lists and untick any driver updates or ones related to NVIDIA it could be something is coming down the pipe through Windows update.

If it is hardware you will have to call Dell and see how much it costs to reapir hard to give a figure the GPU if it is the problem and is on a MXM module is easy to replace (if you have the spare parts) if it is integrated into the motherboard then the mobo will need to be replaced.

Ronan H

Yeah i reckon i will try the clean install once more and filter out all the NVIDIA stuff. Having said that, the drivers i have been using for the past few days are the same ones that i have been using for years. I have uninstalled and reinstalled them many times over the past few days so the drivers themselves cant be at fault as i have got them from a couple of different sources so again it unfortunately points towards a hardware problem :mad: .

Ill get on to DELL and see what they say. What do you you reckon about PC World for repairs? Are they any good at all? Any other repair facilities you know of?

Woe is me, i am weary from all this...

R

8T8

Dell really are the only ones who would have the parts necessary this is not typical replace with off the shelf stuff.

Ronan H

OK so finally i have a definitive answer. Ive done another fresh format / install of Windows XP and after XP initial setup was completed the machine restarted into a garbled screen. No updates whatsoever have been downloaded and the machine is as it was when it arrived from DELL all those years ago. Its definitely a hardware issue at this point so all thats left is to inquire into how much it will cost to be fixed and the best way to go about it.

Ill post more information as i get it, ive gone this far with the thread so i might as well keep going until the issue is resolved one way or another. It might help others at some point too as you have pointed out some useful ways of ruling out different possibilities etc... in relation to graphics cards.

Once again thank you very much for sharing your expertise on the matter. It was very useful and helpful for me and will give me loads of info. to pass on to whoever will be fixing the machine.

Ive decided to buy a new laptop in any case as ive got great miles out of this one, but i still want to get this one fixed because apart from the graphics card its running excellently and is very stable so im going to keep it as a music player for around the house or something like that.

So thats it for now. Hope ya had a decent Easter, be talking to ya soon.

Ro

Ronan H

Further Update: Ive just spent a half hour chatting to a guy in India via the DELL Live Chat Support thing. I gave him some information and he suggested connecting the laptop to an external monitor to see if the problem is still present, as he said it could be an issue with the LCD screen or the LCD cable...

I had never thought of that so ill give it a try and see how it goes. It does make sense i have to admit. No harm giving it a try anyway im sure... Maybe theres nope yet...

Ro

8T8

Worth a go but replacing the LCD display may actually cost more than replacing a GPU so out of the frying pan & into the fire.

Ronan H

Very possibly indeed. Ive to get back to yer man with feedback once i try the laptop on an external display and then someone will call me to discuss the problem and give me a quote etc... Fingers crossed!

Ro

Ronan H

No luck with the external display. Been back to the guy to let him know so now just waiting on a call from someone with a view to getting it repaired... Almost at the end of the saga now!

Ro

Ronan H

Just got a call from DELL. Mr. Engineer is coming to fix my laptop onsite for €209.00. Not such a bad price in my own opinion. I had been expecting a higher cost so thats good! Ive taken out a 2 year warranty too just in case of future issues...

Will let you know how it goes.

Ro

8T8

€209 isn't too bad at all could have been higher hopefully the repair guy can get it sorted, fingers crossed.

Ronan H

Done and dusted at last. Took the guy about 15 minutes. He reckons its a well built machine and probably just as well it was that bit older as the new ones are a bitch to replace parts on and cost a hell of a lot more. So there ya go. End of story, literally...

Thank you very very much for all your help, it is much appreciated and helped make the whole situation go a lot more smoothly than it might have otherwise!

Tis people like yourself that make places like this a great success. The idea of the Internet bringing thousands of people together in one place like this is great in itself but when people are willing to share their knowledge and give some of their time to help others like you do then it makes it that little bit extra special, so thank you and well done!

Kind Regards,

Head

8T8

No problem

What it just the GPU he replaced same part as before I take it ?

Ronan H

Yeah just the card, its about 1.5 inches square, small thing really. He reckons it was overheating and that was why it only caused trouble sometimes and not others... Quite a simple job too i might add, i definitely could have done it myself. It was interesting to see the inside of the machine and how things are set up. If anything happens in future i wouldnt have as much fear about popping the hood and having a look inside.

So im back in action again now and dont need to buy a new laptop!

Ro

Dublin_Gunner

I know you have an engineer coming out to fix it now.

But for future reference, if the screen is like that, and a screen shot also displays the same thing, its your GFX card.

Screen Shot data is taken from the frame buffer on the GFX card (usually the front buffer depending on the software used for the scren shot) so its quite easy to diagnose.

Therefore, if the scren shot is also messed up, its your card causing the problem.
That sort of garbled display you posted is generally due to corrupt / damaged or overheating video ram.

Glad you're getting it sorted.

Ronan H

Thanks for that Gunner. Ive learned loads over the last few weeks about my machine and graphics cards in general, again a tribute to this website and 8T8 in particular. I had not thought of how a screen grab worked actually and where it got its data from, thats another nugget of information for the back of my mind in case i need it in future!

Overheating seems to have been the issue according to the engineer, and now that i think of it, my machine is WAY quieter than it was prior to the chip being replaced. Usually the fan would have been going full blast loads of the time blowing hot air out of the back of the machine but now it doesnt happen half as much. Actually that had been happening for a long time so maybe the card was overheating for ages and only reently combusted... Hmmm... Interesting thought...

Thanks again for your post!

Head

Dublin_Gunner

No probs, glad you got it sorted.

It would make perfect sense that if it had been running too hot that eventually permanent damage would occur.

Out of curiosity, did they replace it with the exact model of GPU, or did you get a nice new one?


**EDIT
Speaking of having valuable fora on the 'net, I've only just joined this place after searching for a solution to a problem with Eircom.

Never even knew this place existe, and its HUGE!

I'm a regular on www.hardwareanalysis.com & the forums at www.guru3d.com & xtremesystems.com

There's bundles of info on those sites also, and should compliment what you've learned here nicely.

Ronan H

Excelent Gunner, sounds like a plan! Thanks again...

Ronan

Dublin_Gunner

nay a bother!

Best of luck with yuor newly fixed lappy!