Scumbags

Deliverance

Sorry scojones for a start this is a very bad situation. How to deal with it ins such a way as it does not happen again is the real issue ie: the perpetrators need to be punished in such a way as it never happens again and the example set deters further possilbe action against good people like yourself.

The problem should not be on your or your sisters shoulders being victims, the problem should be put on the shoulders of the perpetrators as things stand this will not happen, taking matters in your own hands in any way is not an option and should be avoided at all costs, scumbag law is their own law which they have made for themselves and it actually works for them, it is more effective for them than it is for people with a genuine outlook on life for themselves and their families.

As I have heard from many people and threads on this forum it is a common problem. The problem is rife in Ireland all over the country, these 'scumbags' live in a world outside the law they enjoy antagonising the law through individuals whom they attack through the lack of or even ignorence of civil law.

I think your best bet is to use the media to the fullest extent possible to highlight a general problem which we all have being in a position to do so. Your initial drive may not seem to you to make a difference in this sense, but it is the individual who makes the difference over time. It is about time that the decent folk get together in some way and tackle these 'scum' or even the cause of these 'scum' and make them realise that they can't behave this way without consequece.
I do not feel that the solution is local, it is national, to me I think that we should cut the money they are given and make them work for a living, radical I know but it would force them into employment and therefore a realisation of other people.

I am working in the media and plan to highlight this situation over time as it strikes me more and more as a problem.

As an idealist it makes me sad to realise that maybe a social welfare system which is very good in this country allows the degenrates a law unto themselves, and to me the only way they can be held into check is by taking away the very rights which I believe in on principle. This is only a part solution by me, It goes deeper than that but it is definately an abuse and worth considering.

coffee_cake

jonny24ie wrote:

I would advise getting onto the super in the station and tell him that your sister seen the people do this yet nothing is going to be done about it cause their mothers lied for them!! If you can get another witness to say they were there then it makes your case alot better!! Surely a neighbour looked out and saw them there at that time!!

I thought he said a few neighbours had seen this happening in which case they should maybe be asked to talk to the gards too?

Kimbot

bluewolf wrote:

I thought he said a few neighbours had seen this happening in which case they should maybe be asked to talk to the gards too?

I agree, if neighbours saw those people there then their alibies go up in smoke and the gardai can deal with it with the additional charges of lying during the course of an investigation!!

scojones

The story made the front page of the Clare Champion yesterday. There were a few things wrong with the story but we were instructed not give away too much details. The mayor of the town, along with several local politicians have gotten involved. The local sergent is now leading the case and he is adamant about making an example of the lads, or so he says anyway. As I said, I'll be sending in the pictures to the Clare Courier, with a complete story.

Kazooie

scojones wrote:

The story made the front page of the Clare Champion yesterday. There were a few things wrong with the story but we were instructed not give away too much details. The mayor of the town, along with several local politicians have gotten involved. The local sergent is now leading the case and he is adamant about making an example of the lads, or so he says anyway. As I said, I'll be sending in the pictures to the Clare Courier, with a complete story.

Good luck with it dude. I seee this type of scum every day. Very brave when in a group. Quiet as f*ck though on there own. Hope they get what they deserve.;)

Calibos

Clare Champion ya say. Cool. Have this on order for a customer. I'm sure he won't mind me reading the front page.

Agamemnon

scojones wrote:

The story made the front page of the Clare Champion yesterday. There were a few things wrong with the story but we were instructed not give away too much details. The mayor of the town, along with several local politicians have gotten involved. The local sergent is now leading the case and he is adamant about making an example of the lads, or so he says anyway. As I said, I'll be sending in the pictures to the Clare Courier, with a complete story.

That's good news. When a case like this gets a high media profile, the guards will work harder to get evidence for a conviction. A judge will also be less likely to let them go with a slap on the wrist because of the outrage it would cause. Best of luck with it, scojones.

scojones

Cheers lads. I'll keep ye updated when I have more info.

smokie78

GARDAI ALL THGE WAY.....you cant expect them to arrest blokes w/out any evidence.....if nothing happens then...beat the **** out of them......or tell them u want money

Deliverance

scojones wrote:

The story made the front page of the Clare Champion yesterday. There were a few things wrong with the story but we were instructed not give away too much details. The mayor of the town, along with several local politicians have gotten involved. The local sergent is now leading the case and he is adamant about making an example of the lads, or so he says anyway. As I said, I'll be sending in the pictures to the Clare Courier, with a complete story.

Well done scojones, the most effective way to deal with the scumbags has been highlighted in this thread by the result so far. Hopefully justice will be done and these guys will get done, If they do it will be an example to others of the same nature to realise they can't live by their own law anymore.

_Kaiser_

First off, my sympathies to the OP and his sister and hopefully it will get sorted out now.

HOWEVER.. you should be prepared for the very real possibility that once the current media attention dies down, the Gardai will go back to sitting on their hands - as they seemed to be doing prior to you getting the story in the paper (naturally they had to say SOMETHING when they were asked for comment, right?)

My mother lives in a large north-Dublin council estate and has been putting up with the sort of scumbags you describe for almost 20 years now. It all started because the family next door wanted our house (it's an end house with a side gate and larger gardens) and the Corporation wouldn't give it to them.

Being typical scumbags, they saw a woman on her own with two young kids and figured they'd run her out (side note to others: these people are always cowards - tough in groups when hassling easy targets like my mother or the OP's sister, but will ALWAYS run when faced with a real threat. I mention this as suggestions of a war starting if the OP did take the law into his own hands are unlikely. I'm not condoing or suggesting he do so, but I can see why he'd be sorely tempted). Unfortunately (and I half mean this seriously) my mother isn't that easily intimidated.

Anyway, over the course of the last 20 years:


- We've been broken into. They took a pedigree Rottweiler pup we'd been forced to buy early on for security reasons - left TV, video, money - and when mam was lucky enough to recognise the dog on the street several months later, the cops suggested that she "let him (the guy that had her - coincidentially a police informant as it turns out) keep her". It was only because my grandfather knew the then Minister for Justice that they eventually seized the dog, but the guy in question wasn't even charged with receiving stolen goods.


- We've had almost every front window in the house smashed (they're now filled with unbreakable Macrolon panes) and the front garden used as a rubbish tip by these scumbags.


- We've had my own and other people's cars damaged. My aunt once left her car in the driveway and kids were up jumping on the bonnet not 20 minutes later. The passenger window was then smashed that night.

My last car was involved in an incident when one of the neighbours came tearing up the road at speed while leaning on the horn, clipped the wing mirror and drove on (hit and run). Despite me presenting a video tape of the incident and making a statement to the local Gardai, they refused to do anything saying I was "wasting their time" on an incident that "didn't happen" - but more on this later.


- My mother has been assaulted both physically (kids throwing stones on the street) and verbally (in the middle of the Shopping Centre).


- The front door was kicked in one Sunday morning by the same scumbag that damaged my car. I arrived home to find the cops at the door and yer one screaming "yea I f*cking did it!!" over the wall. When asked what the Gardai intended to do, the officer's response was "I don't want to go down the road of charging her" - and he didn't (took us 3 weeks to get the door fixed though!)


- My mother rang me one night at quarter to 12 (I was out of town at the time with no way home) to tell me one of the neighbours had been banging the front door down and roaring threats and abuse for half an hour. She'd rang the Gardai but no response (which is generally the case with the station in question). I rang and got the usual runaround, then rang 999 to get the call escalated. After still nothing 20 mins later, I rang the district station for the area.

I got Garda who seemed very helpful, and told me he'd see what was happening. He then put the phone down (his mistake - didn't put me on hold) and I could hear him LAUGHING about it with the lads from the other station on the 2nd line. Then he came back to me with an attitude. After shouting at this p*ick for 5 minutes, I eventually got an inspector who promised to get a car out.

By this stage of course, the neighbour had gone in. Gardai called to his door, the girlfriend tells them yer man is "sorry and won't do it again. He's in bed" (admission of guilt incidentially). Mam asks the cops if they'll even bring him in for questioning - "we don't want to get him out of his bed!" they say, and went off on their merry way.


- One night, while on the phone to a Garda sargeant about stones being thrown at the windows by some of the local kids, two officers turn up at the door sent by the crowd we were ringing about!

I ask them to wait - they didn't - so I go back to the phone and ask what they wanted. "I don't know" says the sargeant. I suggest he put me on hold, get on the radio, and find out. "I've no way of contacting them" he says. "Riight" I reply "you're telling me you've Gardai driving around with no radio, or mobiles in the car?". "Yea.." he answers - not just lies, but STUPID lies.

- When the scumbag who damaged my car/kicked the front door in had her own car stolen one night, 2 Garda cars showed up in 5 minutes. Her car was returned in an hour, then 2 cars and a van turned up to see if she was happy with the service presumably. One of these cops can be clearly heard on video (the house at home has multiple audio-capable CCTV cameras installed as our word apparently isn't good enough for the Gardai) saying in a smart-assed tone "well sure maybe (my mam) got it on tape!".


- Gardai have regularly turned up to our door threatening to charge my mother with various things, or to kick the door in and search the house - often with no numbers on their uniforms, and refusing to give their names when asked. Neither my mother (or any of us) has never been in trouble with the Gardai in our lives, but this is what goes on.

I could go on and on (there's 14 years of records and 10 years of video) but I trust you get the point. These scumbags operate in groups and are usually young enough that the Gardai either can't - or won't - do anything. Plus they keep the hassle to a low enough level that it makes it a nightmare to live in, but not serious enough to force any real consequences. Naturally they all back each other up too, as the OP has seen with their allibi stories.

By the way.. we've gone the whole radio, TV (Prime Time almost 2 years ago), local TD, Dublin Corporation/City Council route too but noone has EVER been charged, never mind questioned about any of these incidents despite a wealth of audio, video and written (statements) evidence given to the Gardai - indeed it seems that as a result of that very first incident, the local Gardai are determined to in fact be as bad, if not worse than the local scumbags.

Anyway... good luck to the OP in getting this sorted, but be prepared that it may be a long wait and against massive opposition to get anywhere.

gurramok

Jayzus, that sounds like corrupt gardai on the payroll i bet of the intimidators.

It dont sound like 'normal' policing at all, i think i remember that issue on prime time back then, surprised it wasn't followed up afterwards.
Maybe goto every newspaper/tv not just one, goto every TD, councillor from every party not just one.
Most powerful weapon you have is cctv evidence and those 14years of evidence, maybe pursue a civil case against corpo for not doing anything about anti-social behaviour when they should be, the cops for doing nothing and been biased as well as intimidatory.
A new garda ombudsman is being setup and operational very soon, make a serious complaint and have legal backup when you bring your issue to them

If it was me, i'd post that criminal damage stuff on youtube or another website for all to see the nightmare your parents go through and then the media\authorities might take heed, more publicity the better.

Remember the ballymun 'happy slapping' case, it got huge media attention because it was on youtube hence my advice to go down this route.

You need to get legal on all those involved imho.

D-Generate

Why not get a solicitor? The Gardaí will probably be lazy as **** in regards to a normal citizen but when solicitors get involved it makes them act as they have clout.

Chakar

D-Generate wrote:

Why not get a solicitor? The Gardaí will probably be lazy as **** in regards to a normal citizen but when solicitors get involved it makes them act as they have clout.

Now thats the best suggestion I've heard. You can utilise criminal and civil law in this respect if you're so inclined. Its certainly a better idea than taking matters in your own hands.

Steffano2002

If that had happened to my sister I would sort it out personally I have to say... When it comes to my family I take no prisoners. I'm like the Hulk! However, you know deep down what needs to be done... Leave it to the Guards and hope they nail the bast@rds good and proper.

nlgbbbblth

Would strongly advise against taking on these people physically mainly because the legal system in this country tends to punish retaliatory violence far more greatly than instigated violence.

i.e. Mr A throws stones at Mr B's car. Mr B gets out and beats Mr A so badly that the latter is paralysed.

Mr B is charged with causing grievous bodily harm.
Mr A is not charged or punished for throwing stones in the first place.

phantom_lord

nice example.

Sam Vimes

Kaiser2000, i don't understand why the gardai would do this? i'm not doubting you, i'm just wondering wtf they're playing at.

are the neighbours friends of the local gardai? are they informants? do they pay off the gardai? did you ever go into the local station and piss in their cornflakes? do they have something against you or do they just not want to go after them? if not why not?

that's the kind of situation where you need to put up a sign saying "trespassers will be shot" and carry out on the threat

_Kaiser_

Commander Vimes wrote:

Kaiser2000, i don't understand why the gardai would do this? i'm not doubting you, i'm just wondering wtf they're playing at.

are the neighbours friends of the local gardai? are they informants? do they pay off the gardai? did you ever go into the local station and piss in their cornflakes? do they have something against you or do they just not want to go after them? if not why not?

that's the kind of situation where you need to put up a sign saying "trespassers will be shot" and carry out on the threat

Believe me I'd LOVE to know why the local Gardai won't do the job. As i said, neither myself or my family have ever been in trouble with them, and frankly we'd be just as happy to never have to deal with them at all.

I can only assume that when they were made do their job all those years ago that it pissed them off (although one of the 2 detective sargeants involved at the time was later implicated in drug-running through Dubln airport so I'm not that surprised really). In fact, until the trouble started, mam hadn't even spoken to the neighbours (something that the kids have an issue with apparently - that she's not in the pub with the rest of the parents every night).

Similarly, she has regularly been worken at 6am by people looking for the scumbag next door, and used tinfoil has regularly been thrown into the back garden from that house so draw your own conclusions there. The same bunch are also running a garage out of the house and the most recent thing is to block our driveway, or park just close enough to the gates that I can't get my own car anywhere near it, never mind in the driveway itself. When you ask them (politely - no pont lowering yourself to the same level) to move it, you get told to "f*ck off and get into your house!"

One of the locals was caught on camera telling his 6 year old that "we're gonna get her (my mother) done", and this same guy exposed himself from his back window to my mother one night, and threatened to kill both my sister and myself (this latter bit was on the PrimeTime segment and directly into the camera). According to the Gardai however, our word isn't enough. Even when they're given video evidence as backup, they still refuse to do the job.

Brendan Hayden from Dublin City Council sat on PrimeTime agreeing it was totally inappropriate behaviour, and saying that he and his department would definitely take action against these people if they were identified to him. Well nearly 2 years on, and they haven't taken ANY action, never mind evicted even one of these people, despite them being in numerous breaches of their tenancy agreements.

The behaviour of these neighbours would indeed suggest that they are "potected" by the local Gardai. As I say, in almost 20 years now, noone has EVER been even questioned about any of the incidents that have happened. They're all aware that there's 24 hour CCTV coverage, yet they even play to the camera (witness a kid standing up on the back wall, spitting at my mam over it - also shown on PrineTime). Clearly they're not worried at all about possible reprocussions from the authorities. Indeed, the local Gardai seem to be actively participating in the harassment.

gazzer

@Kaiser2000. I remember seeing your poor mother on Prime Time.. I could not believe what those little ****s are getting away with. I remember one of the kids mothers been shown footage of what her little darling was doing and she couldnt be less interested.

They should take all dole and other allowances away from scumbag families.. Put them all out on an island and let them do away with each other. I dont care if people think it is inhumane or the bleeding heart brigade talk about their rights.. These scumbags give up their rights as far as I am concerned as soon as they start to ruin other people life and way of life.. Why should they be giving any of the benefits of our society when they show nothing but contempt for ordinary decent people?

Why are we letting these scumbags get away with it?.. I see it out my way as well. Kids out playing till 1, 2 in the morning while their parents piss their dole money and childrens allowance up against the wall on alcohol.. Junkies out of their heads are allowed raise kids. The outside of methadone clinics are full of junkies off their nut pushing kids around nearly getting run over by traffic.. ou cant even give out to a child now and their whole family decend on your door looking for a 'straightener'.

Kaiser2000.. I know your mother has probably done all this already but would you consider protesting outside the council office, the dail, send video footage to the newspapers and other media.. Ring Joe Duffy, Ring Gerry Ryan.. Bombard all the TD's with emails, letters.. God I am so angry reading about what is happening to your family.. Its sounds like there is inbred scum living around you...

Dyr

BTW scojones, i have family who went/go through a similar thing in clare with scumbag neighbours (dare we say trahvellers? yes we dare). Gardai were useless, didnt want to know. One of them at least had the honesty to tell them that it was probably only a matter of time until particular delinquent kills someone but they still wont/cant touch him.

And then people sneer when "gardai are useless" threads show up :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

For anyones who's interested - entire Primetime show here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1128/primetime.html

Our bit is about 30 minutes in, but as you can see it's a growing national problem.

Unpossible

Kaiser2000 wrote:

For anyones who's interested - entire Primetime show here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1128/primetime.html

Our bit is about 30 minutes in, but as you can see it's a growing national problem.

Wow, quite shocking, Im surprised more people aren't taking the law into their own hands, but then its probably only a matter of time.

That young fella that got the beating acts as if he did nothing wrong, that robbing people and assaulting them are only "mickey mouse" things

hottstuff

Jesus , a national problem is an understatement.
It is a problem that will get worse in this country.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

For anyones who's interested - entire Primetime show here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1128/primetime.html

Our bit is about 30 minutes in, but as you can see it's a growing national problem.

Idbatterim

sorry to hear about your problems OP. I really think the course of action depends on whether you live in a scumbag area, and where they live in relation to you and how old they are, and how far they will go etc. If anyone is going to do anything, where scumbags are involved, you need to know you have people who are going to back you up. I honestly cant imagine how people put up with it, is moving an option? is the situation bad enough to warrant moving? The situtation at the moment has to be life wrecking?

Fighting Irish

balaclava and a 9 iron

Mahatma coat

MOVING!!! AN OPTION!!! EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

movealonggetalongmovealonggetalonggomoveshift

dey dony own anytjing yous may have a claim on somebit

NeMiSiS

I'd move, life's is too short, but I'd sabbotage the house they want so badly first.... like leave the gas on... "by accident" ..
TK

_Kaiser_

Unfortunately moving isn't an option as it's a council house (she doesn't own it and wouldn't have the money to just move anyway) and my mother has a lung disease so needs to be close enough to Beaumount Hospital.

Besides, is that not only ignoring the problem? Move and let someone else have to put up with it? Why can't the Gardai/Dublin City Council just do their jobs is the better question?

Ruu_Old

Kaiser2000 wrote:

For anyones who's interested - entire Primetime show here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1128/primetime.html

Our bit is about 30 minutes in, but as you can see it's a growing national problem.

Thats rough, how long have the neighbours been living beside your Mam, since she moved in or before?