How do you find mechanics, generally?

Archeron

And I dont mean in the golden pages :-)

I know this may be a bit of a contentious issue, so apologies in advance if anyone is offended by any part of this, but I wanted to see how people feel, generally, about mechanics in Ireland.

I've been driving now for 14 years, and in my time, have had a lot of work required on various vehicles for various reasons, as would we all. Sadly (and I hate top admit this) but I am not very mechanical, and would tend to leave the majority of things to a professional mechanic.
I have found in my many years that the vast vast majority of mechanics that I have dealt are unprofessional rip off merchants who fleece people and I honestly think, sometimes do more damage to cars than repairs.

If I can justify this statement with a couple of examples.
My current car was unused for a long period, and needed a major service to get it roadworthy. I paid a mechanic to do this for me. He gave me the car back, saying it was fine and perfect, and on closer inspection I realized:
All of the brakes were siezed and the only way to actually stop the car completely was with the handbrake.
The radiator was empty of water entirely, as was the screen wash. He told me he replaced the wipers, and when I first used them, they put a lovely bright green smeer of moss across my wipers, from when they sat unused. The rear wiper was the same, and there was a fairly serious problem with a coolant pipe in the engine. I sorted this out with him, but it an example of what I would generally find is the standard level.

I'm sure many of us can recount serious, and worse tales of horror.

Now I feel lucky, as having just been ripped off again this morning, I decided to go to a good garage near home that has done some work for me, and the work has been spot on, fair pricing and nice staff. I honestly feel lucky to have found a garage like this, as most of my mechanical requirements are normally met with someone tutting and mumbling to themselves about how expensive and difficult a job its going to be, whereas here they just carry out the work for a fair price without the dodgy amateur dramatics.

Again, I dont intend to tar people with a big brush here, as I know that there ARE good mechanics out there, but we all know that there are an awful lot of con artists too, so just to get a feel for how other people have found this industry in Ireland.

peasant

Woeful, to be honest ...

As a customer, I'm a mechanics nightmare
I usually know what's wrong and I know what needs to be done ...I just can't do it myself

The good experiences that I've had with mechanics can be counted on one hand ...the bad ones are plentyful.

One of the reasons why I keep hanging on to my current car is that the dealer that services it has the best and most professional garage so far, they do an excellent job, including things like ringing you before they do something out of the ordinary, giving you the replaced parts (if you want them) explaining the perfectly itemised bill, etc, etc ...

On the other hand I've come across con artists who said they replaced parts and never did, or they used second hand ones, billing me (or trying to:D ) for new ones and so on.


But, if that's any consolation, mechanics in Germany weren't one bit better.

Seems like a good one is as hard to find as a diamond.

bo-bo

i suppose i am very much in the minority but ive been using an independant mechanic just down the road from my parents house for years. i find his work top class and he has always quoted extremely reasonable prices. hes even helped me out on a few issues with a classic i own. i know mechanics seem to have a bad name in general, but guys like this and mentioned in the above post are around and its well worth asking around to find them.

gyppo

There are excellent mechanics out there - and woeful mechanics out there. I tend to find independant mechanics who depend on your return business more thorough, competent, and reasonable. Conversely, mechanics within a dealership give the impression that they don't really give 2 f**ks. This might be seen as a sweeping generalisation, but read the bit below.

A good friend of mine bought a almost new VW Bora TDi about 2 years ago from a non VW garage. A few weeks later, he noticed a misfire/stutter at 1800rpm. The garage he bought it from said fair enough, and acknowledged the fault, and organised it to go to a VW dealer for diagnosis and repair, as it was under manufacturers warranty, and the VW garage would have the necessary parts and expertise to sort it out.
The VW garage examined the car, checked the ECU for logged faults, found nothing, and declared the car to be fault free.
So, a cycle started, going from the original garage to the VW garage, with no resolution. In sheer frustration, he went to an independant mechanic who correctly diagnosed a faulty turbocharger after about 30 minutes. Back to the VW garage, who laughed in his face.
Next stop was VW Ireland, who organised the car to be inspected. Low and behold, they diagnosed a faulty turbo, and had it replaced. It only took about 6 months to get to this stage.

Guess where he goes now to get it serviced:)

Moral of the story - if you find a good mechanic, treat it like you found a precious diamond.

_Kaiser_

Maybe an idea for a sticky/list of good mechanics by location and what brands they'll deal with?

Fey!

Firstly to Gyppo; at least the garage he bought off acknowledged and tried to sort the problem!!! Doesn't always work like that.

I'm blessed with the mechanic I have; he really knows his stuff, doesn't rip me off, and won't let me do stupid things to the car!!! He also one the Jaguar Worldwide top mechanic competition this year, which he hasn't let go to his head. I suppose that it helps that he's a really good friend (although that makes it more difficult to book the car in with him!!!).

Compare him to my original mechanic from when I bought my first car, who broke the radiator whilst fitting a new clutch; or a garage I bought off which was supposed to have an accelerator pedal and an airbag sensor fitted before I picked it up, but hadn't done the pedal and the airbag light came on on the way home (I bought in Dublin and had gotten the train up from Galway). Moral of that story was to buy local (or at least not off a Kerryman or in Dublin!)

crosstownk

Like all trades, there are good and bad mechanics and it's really just a matter of trial and error until you find the right one. In a lot of cases you don't get to deal with the mechanic - this is the case in a main dealer or a large multi-franchise outfit where you deal with a 'service adviser' or 'service receptionist'. You are relying on this person to relay your faults to the mechanic, and, tbh, some of these advisers don't know one end of a car from the other.

I deal with hundreds of garages/mechanics nationwide and at this stage I have a good idea of who is competent and who isn't - but it took years to whittle it down to a short list.

Wishbone Ash

gyppo wrote:

I tend to find independant mechanics who depend on your return business more thorough, competent, and reasonable

Yes, I agree. I've been using the same independent mechanic for the past 12 years so I don't think it would be in his interst to rip me off. Mrs Wishbone Ash also gets her car serviced there and we've recommended him to others. If he discovers something out of the ordinary, while doing a routine service, he will make contact before carrying out potentially expensive work. He also knows the limitations of his expertise and will (albiet rarely) refer me to a main dealer. The other main advantage is that he is within walking distance of my workplace so I can drop the car off before work and collect it that evening.:)

Mike07

Would agree with crosstownk---like any trade there is good and bad out there--- I've always taken one on recomendation from someone else.

BrianD3

Some garages are variable. Good service one day, poor the next. Often a deterioration in service seems to correspond with a member of staff (eg the service manager) leaving and his replacement being less competent/experienced. Same thing can happen with any business.

rebel.ranter

I hate being asked to recommend a mechanic when friends ask. I do nearly all my own work & only use mechancis when I'm really stumped. There are various so-called specialists & "good" mechanics about but I would be afraid to recommend any of them because I have equally bad reports about the very same mechanics other rave about.
I have a friend who was a mechanic in a Main Ford Dealer for a number of years, he even did his apprenticeship there. Yet he is probably the weakest mechanic among our circle of car enthusiasts.
Another mechanic I know is great for figuring out a way to get any problem fixed but it is normally not how the manufacturer intended, neither is he a tidy guy, you'll have oily fingers all over the place. So how could I recommend this guy?
I would really like to see a sticky on recommended mechanics.

cormie

Any chance of those who posted about good mechanics giving a name, number and location please:)

cold_filter

A friends brother is a mechanic and does all my work and very cheaply too, i cant fault him he's been looking after my cars since i started driving

smash

I recently had a peugeot 206cc and dropped it to a main dealer to get a small problem fixed.... there was a split wire and the front right headlight indicator wasn't working!

They told me they'd call when it was sorted, 3 days later I was getting annoyed and called them and they said they were just putting the car back together... I asked what they meant and was told they had to take out the dash and parts of the engine to find the split and that it would cost €700+ so after a long arguement they let slip that they hadn't actually replaced any parts and so dropped the price to €560!

They were comlpetely incompetent in my opinion. How can a main dealer with trained staff for their vehicles take a car from a customer with a small problem like that, dismantle it and look for a split wire for 7 hours and then repair it without replacing it? I will never go back there again, and have warned off friends who were thinking of buying new vehicles from them.

cormie

That's mad. I thought you have to be quoted price before the work is done by law and any further costs should be written out and be made known to you or you should be contacted first. That's how it should be. I wouldn't pay E560 for a split wire to be fixed:eek:

Did you actually pay it?

I rang up a load of places when I had to get my clutch on my transit replaced. The cheapest was:

Byrne Eamonn Kilcoole Ind Est Kilcoole Wicklow (01)2876145

Seems like a very nice man and rang me up before going ahead with any job. I told him I was a bit tight on cash but needed a new clutch and brake shoes. He told me on the phone the clutch alone would be about 400 and the brake shoes about 90, including fitting and VAT. The ford garages I rang, were charging even more than this for the clutch alone!

So he rang me up and said it'll be 400 for the clutch and the brake shoes will be fine for some more use that he'll just give them a clean. So the total price was E400 for new clutch and cleaning up the brake shoes:)


There's also a guy in Industrial Yarns, Bray, Ryan and O'Brien the place is called. He couldn't do the job on the transit because it was too big for his place and his lift thing but he did work on my cars before and gave good prices and is a nice guy too.

JMSE

Modern cars are so much computerised that even the good mechanic who is efficient and quick on his feet is up against it. He can handle the maintenance alright but when a diode on your dash lights up and says 'check engine', theres lots of new sensors and solenoids and vacuum pipes and valves, not to mention immobiliser issues.

@ cormie...."Clean brake shoes" ???? how does that work?

slipss

Yeah what most people said. It's no different than any trade, (I mean I've seen a load of plumbers do a lot of uneccesary work over the years) you will get some mechanics that take great pride in thier work and are extremely honest and you will get some that are always on the look out to rip off easy targets. I know a lot of mechanics and the vast majority are the former. But thier are very easy steps you can take to avoid getting screwed over by the latter. Take a basic car maintanence course, always use a mechanic that comes recommended by someone you know personally, test the car out before you hand over a penny, tell them that you and all your mates were using a great mechanic but he emmigrated and that now you are all looking for a new one and you'll give them his number if he does a good job ect.

slipss

JMSE wrote:

@ cormie...."Clean brake shoes" ???? how does that work?

Give them a light rub with emory paper and clean them off with carb cleaner and a cloth.

Andrewf20

Theres a guy just outside Kells called Robert Furley. He is the best mechanic by a country mile that I know of. Decently honest, bloody good at his job, charges very respectably and hands back your replaced parts for good measure.

gyppo

JMSE wrote:

Modern cars are so much computerised that even the good mechanic who is efficient and quick on his feet is up against it. He can handle the maintenance alright but when a diode on your dash lights up and says 'check engine', theres lots of new sensors and solenoids and vacuum pipes and valves, not to mention immobiliser issues.

I agree. Unfortunately, lots of mechanics rely solely on the car diagnostics to tell them whats wrong, rather than putting their brains into gear. Modern diagnostic sytems are there as an aid, not a replacement to fault-finding.

Darragh29

peasant wrote:

As a customer, I'm a mechanics nightmare
I usually know what's wrong and I know what needs to be done ...I just can't do it myself

In my experience, this is one of the most frustrating problems that a customer can present for a professional mechanic, the customer who thinks they know what needs to be done but in reality actually doesn't.

For example, in my garage, we have a set of operating protocols that dictate how we approach every job. The sole purpose of these protocols is to provide the highest standard of technical service to our customers. An example of these protocols are:

(1) Wipers are always replaced during a service, non-negotable.

(2) Water pumps are always replaced if a timing belt is replaced, non-negotable.

(3) Once a timing belt is removed, it is binned, regardless of whether or not it was fitted two days ago, non-negotiable.

(3) Every car that is serviced is valeted, non-negotable.

(4) Brake discs are either resurfaced in-situ or replaced with brake pads, non-negotiable.

(5) If any headlamp/side lamp or brake lamp bulb needs to be replaced, the corresponding bulb on the other side of the vehicle has to be replaced, non-negotiable.

(6) Wheel cylinders are ALWAYS replaced with brake shoes, non-negotiable.

These are just some examples, but running a garage in this manner means customers don't have to come back with problems because their problems are fully solved when there arise or more importantly are attended to pre-emptively when their vehicle is in our garage.

We often find that a customer will say to us "look, I know what needs to be done, so just replace the part I said I want to get replaced". The truth is the the customer doesn't know what needs to be done. I've a policy of turning away customers who start telling me how to do my job. If a customer does not trust my best advice, I don't want that customer coming to me. I'd rather that customer went to a grease monkey down the road and wasted their time instead of mine. I don't need a customer who wants to get work done on the cheap and then comes back 3 months later with a complaint when they refused to listen to my advice previously. An example is a customer who is driving a 1997 car and wants brake shoes replaced but doesn't want to get the wheel cylinders replaced. 3 months later, there is a hydraulic leak and the customer is back complaining that they only had their brake shoes replaced a few months back and the job musn't have been done right.

We explain in detail why we use these protocols and my experience has been that when people take our advice and trust us to go the extra mile to attend to their needs, they save themselves and ourselves a lot of hassle and inconvenience.

Its important to note that these protocols are not profit driven, they were developed as a result to us putting the customer at the very centre of our business operations and we ammend and create new protocols on a weekly basis.

BostonB

Darragh29 wrote:

....

(1) Wipers are always replaced during a service, non-negotable.

(2) Water pumps are always replaced if a timing belt is replaced, non-negotable.

(3) Once a timing belt is removed, it is binned, regardless of whether or not it was fitted two days ago, non-negotiable.

(3) Every car that is serviced is valeted, non-negotable.

(4) Brake discs are either resurfaced in-situ or replaced with brake pads, non-negotiable.

(5) If any headlamp/side lamp or brake lamp bulb needs to be replaced, the corresponding bulb on the other side of the vehicle has to be replaced, non-negotiable.

(6) Wheel cylinders are ALWAYS replaced with brake shoes, non-negotiable.

....

I can appreciate why you would want to avoid muppertry but some of that makes no sense. Sounds like you are making the service more expensive for no good reason. I can understand why you'd change some parts together, like fitting shocks in pairs, a clutch release bearing at the same time as the clutch. But minor stuff like valet, wipers, bulbs is just a means to add more to the bill. Usually this stuff is charged at top dollar too, even if its not OEM parts. Someone at work recently had a main dealer service done as part of the warranty conditions, and they charged him something like €15+ vat just for filling up the wiper bottle. I agreed a price with a main dealer for some work, only to find out they didn't use OEM parts!

I have a problem the attitude aswell, I'm interested in my car how it works and would know a decent amount about it, I usually do all the minor servicing myself. I know my cars history. if a mechanic is not interested in that or doesn't find it useful, then I'm not interested in going to a jobsworth either. Asking to see old parts is either to see has the part actually been changed, or to see the wear on the part which might demonstrate what was actually the problem. If you've an actual "policy" of not showing customers old parts, thats very strange.

In my experience its getting harder to get a good mechanic. Most main dealers are just woeful. Any time I go to a main dealer (and I usually avoid it) the quality of their technical knowledge and their customer service is abysmal. They usually try to inflate the price, overcharge you for parts and labour, sometimes charge you for work not done, or work that was never even discussed. I've ordered one specific part in main dealers 4 times now and they've still not ordered it.

Theres lots of bad independents, but then theres some good ones. When I need to I generally use the same couple of guys. I tend to find them very busy though as everyone knows they are good. However like many trades it seems the standards are dropping overall.

BrianD3

I also think it's OTT changing wipers at every service and making it "non negotiable". Wipers are not something to get particularly excited about when it comes to preventative maintenance. I service my car every 10k and do nearly 40k per year, Darragh29 are you saying that if I brought it to you for servicing you'd insist on changing the wipers 4 times a year and if I didn't agree you'd refuse to do the rest of the service?

I'd have the same view on the "non negotiable" valet. Unless the valet is free of course

The comments on timing belts and water pumps I fully agree with. It's a pity more garages don't have a policy like this. Many do but plenty don't

Wheel cylinders always replaced at the same time as brake shoes, again I disagree with the non negotiable bit. Wheel cylinders can last anything from 20k to the life of the car. The replacement cylinder that you fit as part of preventative maintenace may leak in 1.5 years while the old ones may have been there for 8 years and been good for another 8. How would you explain that to a customer? Do you know the full history from new of every car that comes into your garage. IMO it would be preferable to advise the customer that it *may* be an idea to change the cylinders as part of preventative maintenance and clearly state on the invoice for the brake shoes that this advice has been given. The customer can then decide whether he wants to take the advice or not and if he comes back 6 months later to bitch about how his cylinders have started leaking (and contaminated the recently fitted brake shoes) he hasn't a leg to stand on as you can produce the documentation.

That's just my opinion, I am not questioning your credentials as a professional in the motor trade or saying I know more than you because I don't. There's also an element of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" to this and there are bad customers as well as bad mechanics out there

Darragh29

BrianD3 wrote:

I also think it's OTT changing wipers at every service and making it "non negotiable". Wipers are not something to get particularly excited about when it comes to preventative maintenance. I service my car every 10k and do nearly 40k per year, Darragh29 are you saying that if I brought it to you for servicing you'd insist on changing the wipers 4 times a year and if I didn't agree you'd refuse to do the rest of the service?

Well it depends on how you want to look at it. For a full/major service, we replace all the items I listed in my last post for the amount stated. For this price, we know of no other garage who is even providing what they call a "standard" service. As I said originally, this is not profit driven, its customer service driven. The vast majority of our customers come to us once a year for an annual full service and would not be doing the mileage you are doing. We have fleet customers who we deal with differently obviously because their needs are totally different. They buy a different product from us and we designed that product to suit a completely different customer. For our retail, average mileage customers, we provide a fixed price service product where we replace servicable items as standard, over and above our competitors and for less than our competitors are charging. Think about this for a minute, how much would your garage charge you for the following:

Emissions test.
Digital brake, sideslip & suspension test.
Full service, including oil & filter change, air filter, plugs, lights, levels, windscreen wipers, (replacement of bulbs incuded in price).
Full vehicle inspection.
Service valet & exterior wash.
3 page vehice service report.

Would you rather have this done for 185 Euro or have a service done by another garage for well over 200 Euro if not 300 Euro, with only a fraction the items above included in the price, and haggle with him over a set of wiper blades???

I recently rang Belgard Motors who quoted me 330 Euro plus VAT for an oil & filter change & air filter change for a 01 Golf. In all seriousness, which do you think represents better value for money???

Darragh29

BrianD3 wrote:

Wheel cylinders always replaced at the same time as brake shoes, again I disagree with the non negotiable bit. Wheel cylinders can last anything from 20k to the life of the car. The replacement cylinder that you fit as part of preventative maintenace may leak in 1.5 years while the old ones may have been there for 8 years and been good for another 8.

Well again, you have to look at the reasoning behind this. We had a number of customers some time ago coming back within a year complaining that they had an oil leak or in one or two cases, had failed an NCT due to brake imbalance caused by a brake drum oil leak, and due to their lack of knowledge, they associated this with work done by us. We sat down and looked at what we could do to ensure that we never again had a customer coming back to us with a complaint like this. It reality in wasn't a valid complaint, because it wasn't something we had to stand over at the time as we had not replaced whele cylinders as standard, but all the same, from the customers point of view, rightly or wrongly, they had a valid complaint. We sat down and looked at this and the only way we could eliminate perceived complaints relating to this problem was to replace wheel cylinders along with brake shoes. Now we never have a customer coming back with this perceived complaint. There are customers out there that no matter how I try to explain to them that their wheel cylinders leaking, or for that matter their water pump bearings that are screaming 1 month after a timing belt having been replaced, are not my problem, due to their lower level of technical knowledge they have, they will leave thinking I'm just trying to fobb them off. I'd rather deal with 100 problems pre-emptively than one coming back as a complaint. That's me, I know other garages are different, at the end of the day we have loyal customers who reccommed us again and again, and thats the acid test I use.

peasant

Darragh29 wrote:

Emissions test.
Digital brake, sideslip & suspension test.
Full service, including oil & filter change, air filter, plugs, lights, levels, windscreen wipers, (replacement of bulbs incuded in price).
Full vehicle inspection.
Service valet & exterior wash.
3 page vehice service report.

Would you rather have this done for 185 Euro ...

If you did all this for 185, fair play to you.

But as soon as you put things like windscreen wipers, washer fluid atc (which I regularly replace and service myself) on the bill on top of the 185,
I'd have an argument with you that would give a whole new meaning to the term "non negotiable"

BrianD3

Certainly 185 euro is extremely good value for all of that. I agree that a main dealer would charge 300+ for less with many Dublin main dealers charging closer to 400.

Darragh29

peasant wrote:

If you did all this for 185, fair play to you.

But as soon as you put things like windscreen wipers, washer fluid atc (which I regularly replace and service myself) on the bill on top of the 185,
I'd have an argument with you that would give a whole new meaning to the term "non negotiable"

Well, read my last mails... We don;t charge extra for these items, the price is a fixed, all inclusive price...

peasant

Darragh29 wrote:

Well, read my last mails... We don;t charge extra for these items, the price is a fixed, all inclusive price...

My last service contained:
oil + filter, plugs, air filter, break clean, full inspection
no valet, no wipers, no bulbs

But then again, it only cost 137.80 incl VAT at a main dealers.

For roughly fifty Euro (+ VAT) I can still valet, wipe and bulb meself

JoeA3

Darragh29 wrote:

(3) Every car that is serviced is valeted, non-negotable.

I appreciate much of what you say, but this "non-negotiable" stuff puts me right off... I've yet to come across a dealer which "valets" a car to my satisfaction. In fact, I recently collected a new car, and during the PDI, the guys doing their so called valet scratched my door - using brushes on a brand new car! A quick dealer wash may suit the majority of joe soaps, but not me. I'm afraid I will absolutely insist that my car is never washed by a dealer/garage again - and I assure you that's non-negotiable :rolleyes:

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote:

(1) Wipers are always replaced during a service, non-negotable.

(2) Water pumps are always replaced if a timing belt is replaced, non-negotable.

(3) Once a timing belt is removed, it is binned, regardless of whether or not it was fitted two days ago, non-negotiable.

(3) Every car that is serviced is valeted, non-negotable.

(4) Brake discs are either resurfaced in-situ or replaced with brake pads, non-negotiable.

(5) If any headlamp/side lamp or brake lamp bulb needs to be replaced, the corresponding bulb on the other side of the vehicle has to be replaced, non-negotiable.

(6) Wheel cylinders are ALWAYS replaced with brake shoes, non-negotiable.

These are just some examples, but running a garage in this manner means customers don't have to come back with problems because their problems are fully solved when there arise or more importantly are attended to pre-emptively when their vehicle is in our garage.

Hi Darragh,

Waterpumps, T/Belts and Wheel Cyls I would agree with. There are very valid safety and quality related reasons for these.

The rest I think are wrong.
Bulbs. Why replace the one on the opposite side? There is no valid reason for that? Or is there? What would make it more likely to blow than any of the other bulbs in the car?

Wipers. If they are worn then replace them but if not worn then why?

Brake Disks. Why should they be resurfaced or replaced unless the surface is worn?

Valet? Should this not be the customers choice?

How can you possibly service any/every car at that price? Do you do long life VAG diesels at the same price as a 10 year old Fiesta? Or any car that needs new platinum plugs at the same price as the same car that is not due them?