Fine Gael Ard Fheis 2007

Dave!

Hey folks,

Just watching Enda Kenny's speech on RTÉ at the moment. What do ye think of it?

I still don't know if I can picture Inda as Taoiseach, but it's a decent enough speech. Looks like the idea he's gonna be going with for the election is that the mandate given when you vote for Fine Gael is your signature on a contract, and it's up to them to keep their own side of the contract by delivering everything the promise. He says that any minister seen to be wasting tax-payers' money will be dismissed, and he says that if he does not deliver on the promises he makes upon becoming Taoiseach, that he'll walk away from politics.

I thought it was quite good and better than the last one. What ye think?

ps. Anyone know if I missed Labour's Ard Fheis? Or is that coming soon?

brianthebard

I like Enda, he's a very good speaker and has a strong presence in talks that comes across on tv. He made no promises that he could renege on, which was refreshing. I feel he has far more charisma and intelligence than the present Taoiseach and I don't really understand how people can still say that he doesn't. He's come a huge way since he became party leader.

Trotter

I'd give him a shot at the job. Pity for me its a case of voting for John Deasy if it happens. I dont think FG are very pro South East though.. thats making me think twice.

IronMan

I found it impressive also. Its not like he can break these promises if he gets in, his entire speech was built around it being the fundamental reason for voting for them. It was different than the usual rubbish spouted by politicians. Seems like a decent skin as well, if not a bit 'country'.

brianthebard

Lolz just cause he's from Mayo is no reason not to vote for him! Although I feel some people in Dublin think of Bertie as one of them and Enda as a thick culchie. I hope that image doesn't prevail.

Dave!

Well the latest opinion poll shows FF support in Dublin is down 5% whereas FG's is up 4%, so it seems you may get your way

Extranjero

I'd vote for him. I think he'd make a better Taoiseach than a politician... in that he seems genuine and intelligent even if he isn't Mr. Charisma, you would think people might see past charisma in politicians by now!

Ah I've seen it all before.
Usual stuff.
Promises promises.
Give it a year or two into their administration and it will be all complaints about them.
There is no perfect world.

Shine the contract lads if ye want to.

mickd

brianthebard wrote:

Enda as a thick culchie.

thats because he is. The man is about as inspiring as a clam. I would rather see Pat Rabbitte as Taoiseach before Enda Kenny. If the alternative is to succeed then it would make a refreshing change to have Labour provide the leadership as opposed to being a mudguard for FG.

Peter C

Enda came across very well last night. Give him a chance as Taoiseach, I am sick to death of Bertie and Co. wasting tax payers money etc. etc.

If Enda cant keep his promises when in power, then he said he will go and if he is honourable as he says he is, he will go.

Give the guy a chance, time for new ideas and fresh faces!

brianthebard

mickd wrote:

thats because he is. The man is about as inspiring as a clam. I would rather see Pat Rabbitte as Taoiseach before Enda Kenny. If the alternative is to succeed then it would make a refreshing change to have Labour provide the leadership as opposed to being a mudguard for FG.

Can you give me an example of how he has shown himself to be a thick culchie then?

Múinteoir

When have intelligence and charisma ever had anything in common? I'd say a lot of the most intelligent people in the world have very little charisma and quite often very little social skills. Yet plenty of people who are thick as a brick have charisma and charm. Some people really need to read the dictionary more to understand the definitions of these words.

I think Enda came across as sincere in his speech, which I think was the most important thing.

[Jackass]

FG have got my vote this election. I think the frustration at all ther spin from the current government has takin it's toll on me and I don't think the country is in nearly as good a state as we're led to believe.

As said above, I think it's time for a change of government. New faces fresh ideas. I hope FG take the reigns, but I'm not sure it will happen unfortunatly, but one things for sure, I've had enough of bertie and the boys. (not that I was ever mad about them in the first place)

is_that_so

As a speech I thought it was very well-delivered. He had a simple but not simplistic theme and included his vision, what FF/PD are doing wrong and what FG will do right. Tonic for the troops as they say.
With no more Ard Fheis to come he may also have got the timing spot on. Of most interest to me last night was the lack of emphasis on how much they will spend. Of course some of their plans will involve large amounts of money anyway but he focussed on ideas and visions. And we need some of that right now.

I am actually more convinced now that he stands a good chance of becoming the next Taoiseach, than I was a year ago.
Either way it's going to very, very close.

mickd

Peter C wrote:

If Enda cant keep his promises when in power, then he said he will go and if he is honourable as he says he is, he will go.

No FG Taoiseach has ever been re-elected so one should look past silly utterances masquerading as being honourable.

mickd

brianthebard wrote:

Can you give me an example of how he has shown himself to be a thick culchie then?

Most of his speeches for a start, I mean the arrogance of quoting JFK everytime he appears on tv. He must be a thick culchie or else he would know his place.

brianthebard

What a wonderful contribution. :rolleyes:

mickd

mickd wrote:

Most of his speeches for a start, I mean the arrogance of quoting JFK everytime he appears on tv. He must be a thick culchie or else he would know his place.

A galway man calling a mayo man a thick culchie.lol

I thought the speech was good.Hope the election occurs before I head off t the states.

mickd

brianthebard wrote:

What a wonderful contribution. :rolleyes:

glad you agree!!

mickd

Deleted User wrote:

A galway man calling a mayo man a thick culchie.lol

Your point being?

I was merely illustrating the fact that we is way out of his depth quoting speeches by JFK which he heard as lad in Mayo, when he has yet to display anything remotely akin to leadership. His appearance with his wife on TV3 political party this afternoon was yet another cringeworthy performance.

is_that_so

I think you've made the point at this stage that you won't be voting for him.

OPENROAD

M&#250 wrote: »

When have intelligence and charisma ever had anything in common? I'd say a lot of the most intelligent people in the world have very little charisma and quite often very little social skills. Yet plenty of people who are thick as a brick have charisma and charm. Some people really need to read the dictionary more to understand the definitions of these words.

I think Enda came across as sincere in his speech, which I think was the most important thing.

Yes but correct me, and forgive me if I am wrong but I would say that you have links in some way to FG. Enda Kenny has to convince the rest of us that FG /he would do a better job. He has to put across and convince the public that FG policies are what the country needs, so how Enda comes across is actually important, while I do see where you are coming from re charisma, it does play a part, can Enda catch the publics imagination, is he a charismatic speaker, can he put across a convincing argument to vote FG and sorry at the moment I am not convinced by the guy, sorry, still plenty of time before poll day though. Also considering the amount of problems FF have had over recent years i.e. Bertie scandal, perception of huge waste in spending have the opposition put a serious dent in FF that they should have done?
One final thing, and personally was not a fan of his, but Bill Clinton was a charismatic speaker, he tended to draw huge crowds during his public speeches throughout his terms in office and still tends to now, when he spoke people tended to listen

hairymary

What is this a Fine Gael love in?

What are Fine Gael's policies on health or the economy?Are they any different to conservative Fianna Fail.Looking after big business and the middle class elites.
Who bank rolls Fine Gael?
Enda Kenny represents everything that wrong with politics in Ireland - holding a hereditary seat(50% of TDs).We're suppose to live in a democracy yet the political elites maintain all their privileges.How are Fine Gael candidates selected.How many right wing parties does this country need.Does Fine Gael have any enlightened progressive policies in social or economic areas.Have they ever enacted any law that helped to create a more equitable society?
Enda Kenny is the epitome of old style law and order rural Fine Gael conservatism.

Fianna Fail - very conservative/reactionary
Fine Gael - ultra conservative/reactionary
Progressive Democrats - uber conservative/reactionary

Time Magazine

hairymary wrote:

What is this a Fine Gael love in?

Seems the country is at it at the moment.

What are Fine Gael's policies on health or the economy?

With regard Health the big one is an introduction of free primary screening (GP care) for the poorest 40% of the country to get them out of A+E and have them seen in the doctor around the corner. Links to more detailed Health policies can be seen here.

With regard to the economy the big ones are cutting the lower rate of tax to 18% and reforming stamp duty. Also there's a big emphasis on gaining value for money for State money, it was FG and Labour's first joint-policy release. Links to more detailed economic policies can be seen here.

Are they any different to conservative Fianna Fail.Looking after big business and the middle class elites.

FG are seeking to go into government with Labour and the Green Party. FF are in with the PDs. Draw your own conclusion as to who has less allegiance to big business.

Who bank rolls Fine Gael?

The vast bulk of its funding comes from its members. There's a "Superdraw" every year where cars are up for grabs, etc. There are also constituency-based days out like golf classics.

Enda Kenny represents everything that wrong with politics in Ireland - holding a hereditary seat(50% of TDs).We're suppose to live in a democracy yet the political elites maintain all their privileges.

Although he took his dad's seat, he has been re-elected every time since. Assuming he is elected in 2007, he will be the most re-elected TD in the country.

How are Fine Gael candidates selected.

Every FG candidate is ratified by an election by the members in that constituency.

How many right wing parties does this country need.Does Fine Gael have any enlightened progressive policies in social or economic areas.

The revamp of stamp duty is progressive. The free health care for all kids under 5 is progressive. The call for publication of annual audits of schools is progressive.

Have they ever enacted any law that helped to create a more equitable society?

FG were in power when free third-level education was brought in.

K-9

Ibid wrote:

Every FG candidate is ratified by an election by the members in that constituency.

FG were in power when free third-level education was brought in.

IMO, free third level education is not equitable. That goes for FF too. Noel Dempsey suggested reforming it but it was dropped because it's a sacred cow:)

How is a Solicitor/Accountant/Property Developer earning €250,000 a year getting free education as equitable as a Nurse/Guard/unemployed person. The Wealthy person will pay the fees anyway because they can afford them. Some sections of society need them just to give their children a chance to go to 3rd level.

It was a great Pr exercise but no real substance.

There should have been a reasonable cut off point and the money saved diverted to increasing the actual 3rd Level grant.

IMO, it actually favours middle/upper class sections because they are more likely to go to 3rd Level than the lower class of society.

On candidate selection, what about Mareaid McGuinness in Louth? Not getting at FG, all parties are guilty of it.

oscarBravo

Seanies32 wrote:

How is a Solicitor/Accountant/Property Developer earning €250,000 a year getting free education as equitable as a Nurse/Guard/unemployed person. The Wealthy person will pay the fees anyway because they can afford them.

Can I take it you'd advocate the re-introduction of fees for secondary school? Primary?

Time Magazine

Seanies32 wrote:

IMO, free third level education is not equitable.

I'd tend to agree it hasn't been a great success and could be looked at. Nonetheless the question was, I quote, "Have they ever enacted any law that helped to create a more equitable society?"

The abolition of third-level fees is a perfect example of a scheme that will help create a more equitable society.

hairymary

Ibid wrote:

Seems the country is at it at the moment.


With regard Health the big one is an introduction of free primary screening (GP care) for the poorest 40% of the country to get them out of A+E and have them seen in the doctor around the corner. Links to more detailed Health policies can be seen here.

With regard to the economy the big ones are cutting the lower rate of tax to 18% and reforming stamp duty. Also there's a big emphasis on gaining value for money for State money, it was FG and Labour's first joint-policy release. Links to more detailed economic policies can be seen here.

FG are seeking to go into government with Labour and the Green Party. FF are in with the PDs. Draw your own conclusion as to who has less allegiance to big business.

The vast bulk of its funding comes from its members. There's a "Superdraw" every year where cars are up for grabs, etc. There are also constituency-based days out like golf classics.

Although he took his dad's seat, he has been re-elected every time since. Assuming he is elected in 2007, he will be the most re-elected TD in the country.

Every FG candidate is ratified by an election by the members in that constituency.

The revamp of stamp duty is progressive. The free health care for all kids under 5 is progressive. The call for publication of annual audits of schools is progressive.

FG were in power when free third-level education was brought in.

I take it then that Fine Gael has no enlightened or progressive policies that might create a more equitable society.

Why are so many poor people entering AE - what are the underlying problems that have created such a divided society and how will Fine Gael tackle these injustices?How can you provide better services and reduce income tax at the same time?

Can you supply me with a list of the big personal and corporate donors and the amounts that they donate to Fine Gael?

I asked how Fine Gael candidates are selected not how they are ratified.

Is it Labour and/or the Green Party that you expect to supply the enlightened and progressive dimension to any new coalition government.

Why are Fine Gael not seeking to go into coalition with Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats their ideological friends?

Have Fine Gael any policies that are targeted to help the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable people in Ireland?

How many Fine Gael TDs/candidates are women?

How many Fine Gael TDs hold hereditary/family seats?

Fine Gael were in power when free third level education was brought in.

Is that it?

Time Magazine

hairymary wrote:

I take it then that Fine Gael has no enlightened or progressive policies that might create a more equitable society.

I quoted you reform of stamp duty.

Why are so many poor people entering AE

Probably because they're unwell. And there's not that many people entering A+E relative to European averages; we're just terrible at looking after in-patients. Thus FG's plan to get people to go to their local doctor unless it's an emergency.

what are the underlying problems that have created such a divided society and how will Fine Gael tackle these injustices?

The underlying problems that created a divided society are many and plentiful. I'm not going to list them and set out relevant FG policies on each of them because it would take approximately three years. And even if I sat here for three years and typed away you'd still come up with more problems. List some, and I will tell you how they're going to be addressed individually.

How can you provide better services and reduce income tax at the same time?

The Laffer Curve. We're spending of plenty of money. We can get get value without spending another penny. (But FG still want to spend more money as well.)

Can you supply me with a list of the big personal and corporate donors and the amounts that they donate to Fine Gael?

Define big and I'll see what I can do. Be reasonable here, big is not €100.

I asked how Fine Gael candidates are selected not how they are ratified.

I don't know. I'll check for you.

Is it Labour and/or the Green Party that you expect to supply the enlightened and progressive dimension to any new coalition government.

I expect it to be a coalition where all three are used.

Why are Fine Gael not seeking to go into coalition with Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats their ideological friends?

Because FG feel FF are incompetent in government and feel that a better job could be done. Getting value for public money is not a matter of ideology. With regard to the PDs, I disagree that they're idealogical friends. The PDs are liberals, FG are Christian Democrats.

Have Fine Gael any policies that are targeted to help the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable people in Ireland?

Yes. I'd consider children to be the most vulnerable. FG want a constitutional ammendment to allow soft-information to be properly distributed among relevant authorities. I consider the poorest to be those in the lowest quintile of the income scale. FG plan to remove stamp duty for a house that they seek to buy. Also if they get a medium-paying job (say €20,000 a year) FG plan to tax them at lower rate than the current administration. Who do you define to be the weakest? The PDs?

How many Fine Gael TDs/candidates are women?

I am not of the opinion that this matters one bit. The best people are democratically chosen by the members each constituency and the public elect who they believe to be the best parliamentarians. If women don't show an interest, that's their choice. Nonetheless, in the area I'm familiar with (Dublin), FG are running five women.

How many Fine Gael TDs hold hereditary/family seats?

Nobody in Ireland holds a hereditary seat.

Fine Gael were in power when free third level education was brought in. Is that it?

Obviously not. You asked for one and I gave you one. There are fifteen ministries in this State. Name specific areas you want to hear progressive policies in and I will tell you.

Time Magazine

Ibid wrote:

I don't know. I'll check for you.

This strongly suggests any member may put themselves forward for selection at a Declaration Convention. Members of the constituency then vote at the Selection Convention. Also, with regard to women's influence, you might want to have a look at these efforts to improve female participation in the party.

ballooba

What party do you support Hairy Mary?

How do they tick the boxes you list above?