Fine Gael Ard Fheis 2007

K-9

oscarBravo wrote:

That second quote wasn't from me - I've corrected it for you.

Appreciated, late nite;)

ballooba

Ibid wrote:

When you go and hide and spiel waffle about how people are bored with politics, what's to be expected?

I don't see why you are humouring her criticisms when she can't give an example of what she sees as a better party. I wouldn't bother giving her 'arguments' oxygen.

K-9

Ibid wrote:

The abolition of third-level fees is a perfect example of a scheme that will help create a more equitable society.

Ibid wrote:

The problem was/is that the poorest say 10% of society had free fees anyway. Making it free for the other 90% may be equitable if you are in the top 10/20% but it actually does nothing whatsoever for that bottom 10%.

Dempsey did suggest reform, but it is a scared cow now.

Ibid wrote:

The poor, agrieved hairymary has failed to respond to any of my substantive points and had now resorted to "I don't like the way you play this game" whinging.

I went out of my way to address each and every single one of her points and questions, in doing so linking to several policy sites and going so far as to list all the declared donations to each FG TD, yet she responds with stuff like "Apparently the height of Fine Gael ambition is to be no better than Fianna Fail" and the above quote.

I think the problem is you did go out of your way to meet each point, instead of making sweeping generalised statements.

Hairymary wrote:

A political group who are virulently anti-worker and anti-unions.

What party/parties introduced one of the highest minimum wages in Europe with no tax or PRSI on it?

I'm not a PD supporter but you have to give them credit for it to. Anti-worker?

It could be argued that the wealthiest party in the state is not a neo-conservative right wing party:)

BOOZY

He's improving, but still over-rehearsed and overdramatic.

I like this interpretation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTVSUyfdq_I

ballooba

BOOZY wrote:

I like this interpretation

I thought it was funny too. It's all we have in terms of political satire at the moment. So it will have to do.

His Mary Harney one was hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4lHpkbOi2A

K-9

BOOZY wrote:

He's improving, but still over-rehearsed and overdramatic.

He has improved but:

The interview with him with his wife on TV3 was cringeful. P Flynn came to mind:)

Thank God it was TV3 and nobody was watching.

The family values thing didn't work for Albert Reynolds and it won't work for Enda either.

They should have learned from the Bertie payments scandal that people have sympathy for personal issues, whether they thought Bertie was correct in taking the payments or not.

Bertie has the personal touch, Enda has to concentrate on what he does best.

brianthebard

I don't think they should be trying to play FF at their own game though with personal issues and what not, they should be trying to show themselves to be a viable alternative, not the "I can't believe its not FF" election choice.

Dave!

Yeah he should avoid the personal issues game.... Bertie's much better at it, he's much more... cuddle-able lol

Maybe Enda should concentrate on trying to seem strong and trying to be a leader. Bertie kinda represents a sorta sentimental Ireland (in my opinion), with a diddly-aye-diddly-aye image. That's not to say that's the Ireland he or his party are creating or trying to create, but he's successfully cultivated the image of Bertie-down-the-pub, and I think people vote for him because of that, because he's harmless.

But now we've got some serious issues to be concerned about, with the deaths on the road, and the drink-driving; the growth of gangland violence and gun crime; the problems with the health service; etc. If Bertie continues to stick to the "harmless" image he's been using for the past 10 years or so, then he may appear impotent to the voters. Whereas if Enda swoops in and seems like a strong leader who is capable of taking on these issues, then FG could do well.

I'm not saying it would work necessarily, but it could be a good tactic. I like his idea of culpability and the contract, but is that enough to see him elected? Perhaps a combination of the two would be a decent plan.
A strong leader who can take on all the issues at hand, and whom rules his party with an iron fist.

That's what I think anyway

K-9

DaveMcG wrote:

Maybe Enda should concentrate on trying to seem strong and trying to be a leader. Bertie kinda represents a sorta sentimental Ireland (in my opinion), with a diddly-aye-diddly-aye image. That's not to say that's the Ireland he or his party are creating or trying to create, but he's successfully cultivated the image of Bertie-down-the-pub, and I think people vote for him because of that, because he's harmless.

I wouldn't say Bertie has an image of being harmless. I think most people realise he wouldn't be where he is unless he had a tough streak to. He has the common
touch. Not quite the Bill Clinton factor:), he wishes:), but a certain type of charisma.

DaveMcG wrote:

Whereas if Enda swoops in and seems like a strong leader who is capable of taking on these issues, then FG could do well.

I'm not saying it would work necessarily, but it could be a good tactic. I like his idea of culpability and the contract, but is that enough to see him elected? Perhaps a combination of the two would be a decent plan.
A strong leader who can take on all the issues at hand, and whom rules his party with an iron fist.

That's what I think anyway

I do think thats the way for them to go. Offer an alternative to the Bertie approach. On the contract, I think it's a matter will the electorate believe that he will actually resign if that contract is not fulfilled and will the usual political excuses be dragged out 5 years from now. Is it actually a fresh approach or a PR exercise.

irish_bob

hairy mary thinks that fine gael , fianna fail and the pd,s are ultra conservative reactionaty parties
she should take a trip abroad

in my opinion thier are no ultra right wing political partys in this country
most partys are so central , thier a white line in the middle of the road
compared to the republican party in the usa , the pd,s are pinko libs

thier are no ultra right wing partys in ireland because thier is no votes in being ultra right wing or ultra left wing for the most part in ireland
politically were a very moderate people by and large , were not idealogical to the extent americans are on the right or the way the french are on the left
and i for one applaud that in us

as for the pd,s being anti worker , we had 20% unemployment in the mid eighties as a result of high taxation which discouraged private enterprise
the pd,s made it thier goal to reform taxation and as a result weve unemployment at less than 5% . how is that anti worker
the reasons for poverty in rich countries are not simply down to the better off having it too good , poverty is cultural in many ways , thier is a wellfare , an underclass out there , the state can only do so much
were we to allow the state to micro manage things in an attempt to create complete and categortical equality , then that would come at a price
our freedoms would have to be curbed and that would be political suicide for any party
even sinn fein for all thier talk , oh and they are by far the richest party in the land will eventually move more to the centre , they know thier brand of communism lite plays well within student politics etc but deep down know it will not wash with what eoghan harris refers to as moby dick ,

while i would not like to see ireland become like the usa where being poor is the biggest crime thier is and everything has a price , i think we have a better idea here then the french with thier 35 hr week and 15% unemployment rate

as regards fine gael, im not a supporter of any party in particular , i think fine gaels biggest problem is that enda kenny is a charisma free zone
reichard cooper observed brilliantly on the late late the other night that hes like a castlebar prince charles

nesf

irish_bob wrote:

hairy mary thinks that fine gael , fianna fail and the pd,s are ultra conservative reactionaty parties
she should take a trip abroad

in my opinion thier are no ultra right wing political partys in this country
most partys are so central , thier a white line in the middle of the road
compared to the republican party in the usa , the pd,s are pinko libs

thier are no ultra right wing partys in ireland because thier is no votes in being ultra right wing or ultra left wing for the most part in ireland
politically were a very moderate people by and large , were not idealogical to the extent americans are on the right or the way the french are on the left
and i for one applaud that in us

To an extent I'd agree (though France has a well developed right tbh), sometimes I bemoan the lack of left or right ideology in the main parties, it tends to muddy the policy waters just a bit. Though attitudes like "right wing = anti-worker" and other such nonsense goes a long way towards explaining why tbh.