Great Video, but...

cormie

Here's a very informative video. Just one thing, do we have the same rights here in Ireland?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Seth Brundle

over 45 minutes long - is there a short version as I couldn't be bothered watching it

Seth Brundle

I can't believe that i watched about 10 minutes of it!
Im going to move it to the legal forum.
Off the top of my head I believe that the gardai can search you if they have reason to believe that you may be carrying drugs but the legal minds will help you out better.
Worried about something?

OfflerCrocGod

Very interesting video, good post I have no idea if we have the same rights as in the US (I sure hope we do) but there are still lots of helpful tips given in the video which we can use in Ireland (doors closed behind you, don't incriminate yourself etc) Do we have an equivalent of the ACLU in Ireland?

cormie

I was going to repost it here actually because I had only watched the first 10 mins of it when I posted it and thought it was just car related. If anyone finds any more similar ones, please post them:)

I've heard about the "reason to believe" thing before. But according to the video, they need to see evidence to give reason to believe?

There is also the situation where you could come across a garda who's actually nice and just checking up on things and would have let you away with whatever it was if you did play the "ah it's only enough for me, you know yourself" game, but if you get all "lawyer kid" with him, he might take it further.

cormie

Anyone know about this?

johnnyskeleton

Do you think you could summarise your query? That video is quite long, and if you want a definitive answer, I would suggest reading Criminal Proceedure by Dermot Walsh, or Evidence by Declan McGrath, both of which you should be able to get in a college library or in the national library.

OTK

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Do we have an equivalent of the ACLU in Ireland?

Irish Council for Civil Liberties http://www.iccl.ie

besty

Very informative stuff for our American counterparts.

OTK

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Do you think you could summarise your query? That video is quite long, and if you want a definitive answer, I would suggest reading Criminal Proceedure by Dermot Walsh, or Evidence by Declan McGrath, both of which you should be able to get in a college library or in the national library.

I guess the questions that arise from the video include:
Under what circumstances do the police in Ireland have the right to
*search your car
*search your house
*search your person
*request proof of identity

Also do you have the right to remain silent in Ireland without this silence being interpreted by the police as evidence against you justifying for example a search or detention?

johnnyskeleton

Before I start, this is a MASSIVE area of law, so I will only give at best a few cursory details as examples only. There is much more law on it than there is below, and much of it is subject to exceptions and to judicial discretion. As I said earlier, to know the full law on this area, you should read the textbooks named above.

OTK wrote:

Under what circumstances do the police in Ireland have the right to
*search your car

Under s.23 of the Misuse of Drugs act, "A member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that a person is in possession in contravention of this Act of a controlled drug, may without warrant—
...
( b ) search any vehicle, vessel or aircraft in which he suspects that such drug may be found and for the purpose of carrying out the search may, if he thinks fit, require the person who for the time being is in control of such vehicle, vessel or aircraft to bring it to a stop and when stopped to refrain from moving it, or in case such vehicle, vessel or aircraft is already stationary, to refrain from moving it"

What constitutes reasonable cause is a matter for the trial judge. I don't think that stopping people randomly counts, but if the car was driving dangerously, or if there was a smell of hash smoke coming from the car, I think he might then have reasonable cause.

If a garda gets a warrant then they are entitled to search it. For different offences there are different garda powers of search and seizure.

However, I think it usually goes like this: the garda will ask to search your car, if you refuse, he must tell you which power he is searching your car pursuant to. If he does not tell you the valid power, that might be a good ground to exclude any evidence found as a result, when it gets to court.

*search your house

Pursuant to a valid warrant (typing errors generally don't invalidate a warrant), if they suspect you are committing or have just committed an arrestable offence under the Criminal Law Act, 1997, they may enter and search your house in accordance with s.6 of that act, or pursuant to exceptional overriding cirucmstances such as to protect the life of a potential victim, to preserve evidence where there is a real risk it will be destroyed, or if they enter the premises in hot pursuit of a criminal.

*search your person

Under s.23 of the Misuse of Drugs act, as quoted above, a garda can "( a ) search the person and, if he considers it necessary for that purpose, detain the person for such time as is reasonably necessary for making the search"

I think there is also a common law power to search a lawfully arrested person and the surrounding area.

*request proof of identity

They can request ID, but it is not a crime in itself to have no ID generally (although it is an offence not to have a driver's licence when in control of a vehicle, etc). However, there are offences of giving false information to a garda, and I think possessing a false document is a criminal offence under s.29 of the Theft and Fraud Offences Act, 2001.

Also do you have the right to remain silent in Ireland without this silence being interpreted by the police as evidence against you justifying for example a search or detention?

Regarding the right to remain silent, ask me again in a few weeks time (i.e. the Criminal Justice Act, 2007). At present there are some circumstances where a jury can draw adverse inferences from an accused staying silent. In any case, if you do not account for something which might or might not be lawful, e.g. carrying a chef's knife, I think it is reasonable for a garda to arrest you. Realistically, if you were a chef going to work, why wouldn't you tell them that? In such a situation, they might arrest you, bring you to the station and detain you, but when you prove to them that you are a chef, they probably wouldn't bring charges.