Just heard - new increases in VRT??

NBar

And they plan to spend less on roads and more on public transport

:rolleyes:

Stark

More on public transport? Now I know they're making false promises

cantdecide

but seriously guys...

how do we raise these issues?

we are unanimous- further tax being piled on is nothing resembling a solution to the cited problem (which isn't actually as big a problem as they'd have you believe). Yes it is ripoffsville and there's no point in us bellyaching about it here as previously posted.

where is the point of information- i would love to know how much we pay to motor in this country compared to our fellow europeans.

surely some of the techy people here could organize an online petition to reduce the ripoffs that are rife in motoring and make it the huge election issue it is.

we must also do something about the state of the roads- driving in the UK recently- they're B roads are better than our dual carrriageways and it's not like we're not paying enough to expect decent roads. i'm fed up of pummeling my car on dirt tracks that aren't fit for a pony and trap.

Stark

cantdecide wrote:

surely some of the techy people here could organize an online petition

To quote someone else from this forum:

"Online petitions aren't worth the paper they're printed on".

overdriver

what_car wrote:

fianna fail...............wot a joke
hope they get booted at next election......

I sincerely hope so. Shower of absolute clowns. The minister asked for submissions, did he? Why, so he can look like he gives a sh1t what we think? It's quite clear he doesn't. What's amazing me is this getting out BEFORE an election.

cantdecide

let's not rant any more, political allegences aren't going to be swayed on motoring issues alone. i can say that as a petrolhead as most others can.

as a humble motoring forum, i think we're better off sticking-to-the-knitting.

so how can this be raised to an appropriate level?

ninty9er

The idea is to keep revenue the same but reduce the burden on the average punter with up to 2.0l cars especially if they pollute less...in fairness....you can never keep everyone happy...last time I looked most people were complaining about big 3.0l and 4.0l gas guzzlers (and there are a lot of those V8s in Suburbia what car). Now it's "poor rich people with their big cars getting taxed" FFS

Tipsy Mac

ninty9er wrote:

Really

Could have sworn I've seen Cyril McHugh and other SIMI spokesmen on TV over the past few years damning the levying of VRT

Every election VRT is going to be an issue 2002, 1997.....yet I don't remember it ever reaching campaign level or for that matter getting support from any other party...remember that FG introduced it in the first place!!

edit: apologies 1992 election was originally included, however VRT was introduced after this time

They made it an issue? , all they need to do is go to the EU if they want rid of it but they don't, it suits them to have it in place, it's all a cartel between them and the government to control car sales within the country.

Stark

ninty9er wrote:

The idea is to keep revenue the same but reduce the burden on the average punter with up to 2.0l cars especially if they pollute less...in fairness....you can never keep everyone happy...last time I looked most people were complaining about big 3.0l and 4.0l gas guzzlers (and there are a lot of those V8s in Suburbia what car). Now it's "poor rich people with their big cars getting taxed" FFS

Will there be tax reductions on cars that have smaller engines but more safety features?

overdriver

It was the brainchild of the muppet-in-chief Mr Aherne, as a backbencher originally, I seem to recall. It should not exist here under EU law, full stop.

Tanabe

I totally agree with you.

ninty9er

overdriver wrote:

It was the brainchild of the muppet-in-chief Mr Aherne, as a backbencher originally, I seem to recall. It should not exist here under EU law, full stop.

It shouldn't, but it does, and if the EU wanted rid it would be long gone....70% of our laws are EU originated

overdriver

They DO want it gone, and have told the Clowns Army that they want it gone. So far, Feel And Fall have been slow to take heed..

Fairer, stronger Ireland my hole.

ninty9er

So you know for a FACT that Pat Rabbitte with Trevor Sergeant at his side and Enda Kenny behind him is going to bin VRT if he gets elected to government. Don't think so...If they can reforem stamp duty throwing the housing market into recession and still come up with the €1.3bn in lost VRT revenue fair play...but it just won't happen.

Take the example of a 1.0l Yaris Luna as we know it in Ireland...in Finland it's the same price as here, in Sweden it's €2k cheaper, in Denmark it's a whopping €10k more expensive, plus you pay a whole raft in income tax

When any other party comes around here and says their programme for government includes the abolition of VRT then you can slate FF on it until such time please refrain from political slander:p (joking take it lightly)


VRT IS A PAIN IN THE ASS AND I DISAGREE WITH IT (at the extent...I think €50 would be enough on a small less than 1.0l that practically emits more pure ****** than Co2)
I personally agree that an extra 2% on the standard rate of tax would be better than VRT, but unfortunatley that's a pill the general public aren't willing to swallow

overdriver

That's the thing isn't it? We're constantly told that if it's abolished it will have to be replaced with something else. THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!! We shouldn't accept an unfair and illegal tax because we fear it may show up elsewhere. Whatever money they make off it is illegally obtained, and therefore it should not be tolerated.

As for slating FF, there's loads of things they can be slated on, besides VRT, but that would take up more bandwidth than boards.ie has. Suffice to say their days are numbered, please God.

MadsL

Will there be tax reductions on cars that have smaller engines but more safety features?

There had better be - I'm sick of paying for the 300cc my car does NOT have....praying for emissions based (Smart Car)

ninty9er

I know ther was an MCD issue on boards but o-x-y-g-e-n is an English language word and not the correct spelling for the event so why is it blocked as in my post above

astraboy

One post before I go to sleep. I never understood why VRT is placed on optional safety features. This is a scandal, yet rarely mentioned. Mistibushi released a new car recently and the base model does not have EBD, electronic brake distribution as it would raise the price too much with VRT. England gets the same base model with EBD. A disgrace.

ambro25

cantdecide wrote:

i would love to know how much we pay to motor in this country compared to our fellow europeans.

Well, I'll use the hard facts I know from the UK and France:

UK

2006 Impreza 2.0 R Sport (collecting it Thursday, yayyyyy! )

1st reg'd Mar2006, 8000 miles on clock, main dealer demonstrator. Spec-wise, everything and more on it (except a turbo): metal, recaros, 16 inchers, ABS, airbags everywhere, autoaircon, front fogs, heated mirrors, this-that-the-other. Did I mention it has Subaru's new engine design as well? £10k bags you one of them.

Tax per year: £180 (same for any car above 1,5L)
Insurance: £350 fully-comp with European roadside, protected NCB, courtesy car
Petrol: more or less 20% higher
Tolls - none
MOT (NCT) - yearly, about £20 (excluding any work/services)

Main driver 7 years NCB on UK license, me as named with French license (held 15+ years), both licenses clean.

France
(i) 2002 Citroen C5 1,9 HDi

New in 02, about 200,000 miles on it now, between €3 and €5k spent on it for various bodywork/mech.problems since (on insurance).

Tax per year: none
Insurance: €250 fully-comp (2 years NCB, and a string of metal bending near misses, total write-offs and a few drunk driving convictions (not my convictions btw))
Petrol: comparable to IE, 25% cheaper than IE over in Luxembourg 30 miles away (worth the weekly trip)

(ii) 2000 Renault Twingo 1,1L

New in 00, about 70,000 miles on it now, about €2k spent on it for various bodywork/mech.problems since (on insurance).

Tax per year: none
Insurance: €95 fully-comp (5 years NCB + the above individual and my brother (himself a few metal bending near misses) as named drivers)
Petrol: as for citroen above

Contrôle Technique (NCT): every 2 years, about €30

Tolls - very rare in the area, only paid if going to Paris (about €15 all-in for a 300kms/180 miles trip, first class M'way recently resurfaced, usually deserted) or Strasbourg (about €7 all-in for a 110kms/70 miles trip)

Oh, and if bought over in Luxembourg (30 miles away), either a new or a used car works out 2nd cheapest in Europe (with maxed-out spec). With no VRT when putting it on FR plates.

Ice_Box

astraboy wrote:

One post before I go to sleep. I never understood why VRT is placed on optional safety features. This is a scandal, yet rarely mentioned. Mistibushi released a new car recently and the base model does not have EBD, electronic brake distribution as it would raise the price too much with VRT. England gets the same base model with EBD. A disgrace.

This is the biggest scandel. The government are well aware of it but Roche is too lazy to do anything about it.

Ferdia O'Dowd on the Sunday Business Post often brings it up in his articles.

Seth Brundle

ninty9er wrote:

The idea is to keep revenue the same but reduce the burden on the average punter with up to 2.0l cars especially if they pollute less

This suggests that environmental benefits are a bonus and not really the target of the changes.
Anyhow, I know of no proposal to reduce VRT for smaller cars - just to increase it for larger cars.

The increase also shows the ignorance within the government towards larger vehicles. As has been said several times before, it should be completely consumption based and not this half arsed attempt at pretending to be concerned about the environment.

I realise that this will in all probability be followed up with increased in motor tax for larger 'polluting' vehicles. My 2.5L car will then be subjected to higher annual charges. Should I go out and get a new small less polluting car instead? But then what about the carbon footprint caused by manufacturing the new small less polluting car - more pollutants are emitted from the manufacturing process than from driving the vehicle!

ninty9er wrote:

It shouldn't, but it does, and if the EU wanted rid it would be long gone....70% of our laws are EU originated

The EU allows each member state to decide its own taxes. This recently started changing with the abolition of duty free but there is a long way to go.
VRT is against the EU spirit of free movement of goods. It also has been widely shown that manufacturers deliberately remove safety devices to keep the overall retail price down in Ireland (e.g. the new golf and its missing airbags). Has this tax resulted in deaths?

sneakyST

Im amazed that nobody has even mentioned the fact that man made global warming has not be proven scientifically, yet we still have to pay for it- yes the sheep will follow

Ice_Box

From Irish Independent

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1805226&issue_id=15449


SUV drivers to be hit with 15pc more tax in new green plan

MOTORISTS and householders are to be hit with new green taxes.

Owners of gas-guzzling SUVs and bigger cars will pay up to 15pc more in Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) and road tax. This takes effect for all new cars from the start of next year.

A tax on ordinary light bulbs is also being introduced.

However, the Government's climate-change plans were described as inadequate by opposition parties and environmental groups.

Under the plans outlined yesterday, engine size will continue to play a key part in how much VRT and road tax a person must pay.

A car's emissions ratings will add or subtract an expected 10-15pc from that basic amount.

From January 2008, there will be a flat rate of VRT and road tax on all new cars. But vehicles with high emissions will be hit by an extra 10-15pc, according to government sources.

Those with lower emissions can look forward to reductions on a similar scale. That means there will be a tax carrot for owners of greener cars and a levy stick for those with more polluting vehicles.

As first revealed in the Irish Independent vehicles with most emissions will be levied with biggest vehicle registration tax (VRT) and motor tax.

The announcement was made by Environment Minister Dick Roche who unveiled the new Climate Change Strategy in Government Buildings. The environmental levy on low-efficiency light bulbs will be finalised following a period of public consultation.

And from 2008 the carbon emissions generated by the foreign travel undertaken by government ministers and department officials are being offset by a contribution to a special emissions fund. The Department of the Environment has calculated that air travel by its officials in 2006 would have given rise to a contribution of €5,000.

New 'smart meters' are being installed in all new and existing homes to allow householders monitor their electricity usage.

Mr Roche said the climate measures would account for 80pc of the effort Ireland would need in order to meet its Kyoto obligations.

He said the measures would reduce emissions by almost 14m tonnes. A total of €270m has been allocated under the National Development Plan to pay for carbon credits to make up the remaining 20pc.

However, An Taisce complained that the strategy was "vague, lacking in detail, and with no target dates".

Friends of the Earth described the proposals as "tinkering when what we need is transformation".

Fergus O'Dowd, Fine Gael's environment spokesman, said Ireland missed all its Kyoto targets and had presided over "10 years of broken promises".

Ciaran Cuffe, Green Party environment spokesman, said the new strategy was "too little, too late".

"They have failed to grasp that we cannot simply buy our way out of the problem. The minister has designated €270m to purchase carbon credits abroad and trots out the argument that a tonne of carbon credits purchased in India fulfills our obligations under the Kyoto protocol," he added.

Labour spokesman Eamon Gilmore said Ireland could not hope to reach existing Kyoto targets - much less those set for 2020 - without more ambitious reductions in the energy and transport sectors.

Treacy Hogan

Ice_Box

"Those with lower emissions can look forward to reductions on a similar scale. That means there will be a tax carrot for owners of greener cars and a levy stick for those with more polluting vehicles."

So can we expect a luxury car like a BMW 520D to fall in value because it does 47mpg?

nialler

Well said Kbannon. This has been a major bugbear with me over the last year or so and this new VRT on larger engined cars is totally ridiculous. I know it will not affect us now as we've already got them but future purchases it may.

Anyway I pay just under €1,400 per year car tax, €70 approx in petrol I averaged last year about 15,000 miles, now when I hear the "Polluter Pays" principle I yelp with joy, perfect solution, drop the car tax, drop the VRT, stick the tax on the petrol/diesel and let the salesmen/taxi's/chauffeurs and ordinary joe soap (€75 tax per year commercial) who do 60/70k miles per year pay at the pumps, I have no problem with seeing a 20c/30c increase in fuel charges but as ever government is making to much money out of it.

An again this is another example of costs going UP in Ireland, why not LOWER the VRT on smaller or greener cars eh? Another point Pearse Street into a single lane with a filter light at Macken Street (how stupid was that) so when trying to get out of sandymount/irishtown/ringsend you're stuck in traffic going 2mph now that's when you see a car eat petrol, get traffic moving and we'll be all better off and much more fuel efficient.

Oh another point just to finish off, I have one 3.2L saloon, next door has a 1.8 and a 1.2, house around the corner has 2 2.5L vans, a 2L car & a 1.8L car, why should I pay more tax than them, fecking houshold is an environmental nightmare (that's 8.8L in the one house) I'm being punished as usual.

rant over.

Tipsy Mac

Unlikely anything that has good mpg will fall, most likely it will a done where a 2 litre is a 2 litre and punished for that rather than the actual mpg or emissions it puts out. A 10-15% reduction or increase isn't going to do a whole heap either way to someone with 50k to spend on a car, this again is to stay in bed with SIMI.

Tanabe

kbannon wrote:

VRT is against the EU spirit of free movement of goods. It also has been widely shown that manufacturers deliberately remove safety devices to keep the overall retail price down in Ireland (e.g. the new golf and its missing airbags). Has this tax resulted in deaths?

Absolutely! The 'skimming' of a vehicles safety features which are there to save lives should be illegal, no excuses.

If the muppets in government in this Country even gave half a shyte about the serious amount of road fatalities occuring day after day, they would use the money they robbed from the motorists in the first place and put in into improving our infrastructure.

yop

sneakyST wrote:

Im amazed that nobody has even mentioned the fact that man made global warming has not be proven scientifically, yet we still have to pay for it- yes the sheep will follow

Aye, remember Y2K bug!!

Just in summary these are the proposed changes

Cars VRT Rate
Up to 1,200ccs 15%
1,201 to 1,400ccs 20%
1,401 to 1,900ccs 25%
1901 to 2,400ccs 30%
2,401ccs and over 35%

Biro

yop wrote:

Aye, remember Y2K bug!!

Just in summary these are the proposed changes

Cars VRT Rate
Up to 1,200ccs 15%
1,201 to 1,400ccs 20%
1,401 to 1,900ccs 25%
1901 to 2,400ccs 30%
2,401ccs and over 35%

Such a pile of shyte from the know-nothing fools that call themselves our government. Basing "green" tax on engine size is like judging a football player on how tall he is. "Ooohhh.... he's 7 feet tall - he must be the best player!".
What gobsh!tes. It really annoys me that stupid tax system.
An Accord 2.2 diesel is greener than an Avensis 2.0 diesel, but yet the good old tax system will convince you otherwise.

Stark

sneakyST wrote:

Im amazed that nobody has even mentioned the fact that man made global warming has not be proven scientifically, yet we still have to pay for it- yes the sheep will follow

:rolleyes:

I could get started but really, we're talking about a whole other thread.

yop wrote:

Aye, remember Y2K bug!!

The reason the Y2K thing was such an anti-climax was because of all the preparation for it. Millions were spent ensuring a smooth transition into the new year so that everyone waking up on January 1st, 2000 could say "well, what the hell was all that fuss about?". If no preparation was done, it would have been a different story.