Provisional Driver needing to use Motorways

ambman

lol n1 wishbone;)

wet-paint

ambman wrote:

if you are only driving 3 months then you should not be driving on your own...

Where'd you get three months from? I thought it was that as long as you're on the 1st provo, you're not allowed to be on your own?

Wishbone Ash

wet-paint wrote:

Where'd you get three months from?

ambman was referring to the opening post.......

Fizman wrote:

I'm driving 3 months

wet-paint wrote:

I thought it was that as long as you're on the 1st provo, you're not allowed to be on your own?

You must be accompanied by a relevant full licence holder for your 1st, 3rd and subsequent provisional licenses (except for categories A,A1,M & W).

Mitch Connor

Stark wrote:

There are plenty of dual carriageways around. Many of them are full motorway standard. People could be trained/tested on these.

if a dual carriageway is seen as a suitable replacement for a motorway in a training situation - why not just let learner drivers on the motorway? IMO it is far easier to drive on a motorway then a dual carraigeway - no traffic lights, less variable speedlimits and no right turns.

I really don't understand how a DC is safe to drive on while a motorway is not.

Heinrich

What drivel some folk come up with!

It is illegal for L drivers to drive on the motorway. Suggesting plate removal or going anyway is downright stupid! Is it really surprising that we had that colossal pileup in Nass recently? We blame the fog and lack of signage and the "other drivers" speeding. It the car in front is doing 20 kpm then you cannot speed behind him. Simple.

Other countries do not let L drivers drive unaccompanied and insist on a certain amount of professional lessons with a registered driving school.

Jimoslimos

Tauren wrote:

if a dual carriageway is seen as a suitable replacement for a motorway in a training situation - why not just let learner drivers on the motorway? IMO it is far easier to drive on a motorway then a dual carraigeway - no traffic lights, less variable speedlimits and no right turns.

I really don't understand how a DC is safe to drive on while a motorway is not.

QFT! Changing the colour of road signs from green to blue doesn't make it any less of a DC. My biggest problem is that learner drivers are being further inconvienced because some muppet of a minister wants to say he's created 1000km of "new" motorways in his upcoming election manifesto.:mad:

Comparing this with my experience of doing the test in England. Motorway driving is also banned for L-drivers, HOWEVER part of my potential test-route was on a three-lane national A road where you would be expected to maintain progress up to the speed limit of 70mph or fail.

jackofalltrades

why not just let learner drivers on the motorway? IMO it is far easier to drive on a motorway then a dual carraigeway - no traffic lights, less variable speedlimits and no right turns.

I really don't understand how a DC is safe to drive on while a motorway is not.

I have a friend who has absolutley no driving experience, if learner drivers were to be allowed on motorways, I could legally bring him to the on-ramp of the busiest most dangerous/craziest junction on the M50 and let him at it, do you think that would be safe? and remember being the country were in and the drivers we have, somebody out there would try it.

OP, if you are going to drive on motorways id suggest, avoiding the M50 completely and busy times on other motorways as the sudden accelerating and braking that you can get on them can be very draining on your concentration.

Cerdito

This thread has reminded me of something I read in the Irish Times last week related to this. It speculates about what will happen to any provisional drivers caught up in the M7 fog pile up:

Originally Posted by Irish Times

Gardaí investigating the pile-up have yet to confirm if any drivers involved had a provisional licence. If a provisional driver was involved, he or she is likely to face difficulties when making a claim. According to [Michael Horan, manager of non-life insurance with the Irish Insurance Federation] a car struck by a provisional driver on a motorway would be fully covered.

"That won't affect the rights of the person who was run into because it is not his fault the learner driver was outside the terms of his licence," he says. "However, if a provisional driver is struck by someone else, or damaged their car during an evasive manoeuvre, the fact that they were driving outside the terms of their licence could have a bearing on their claim and it could be refused."

Mitch Connor

jackofalltrades wrote:

I have a friend who has absolutley no driving experience, if learner drivers were to be allowed on motorways, I could legally bring him to the on-ramp of the busiest most dangerous/craziest junction on the M50 and let him at it, do you think that would be safe? and remember being the country were in and the drivers we have, somebody out there would try it.

OP, if you are going to drive on motorways id suggest, avoiding the M50 completely and busy times on other motorways as the sudden accelerating and braking that you can get on them can be very draining on your concentration.

you can bring them to on on-ramp for a dual carriageway with a limit of 100kph and let them at it - is a motorway really any more dangerous? I personally don't think it is, for the reasons i have mentioned previously

Fizman

For those interested, I travelled yesterday up and back on the M7 and M50. Stuck to the limit for the journey and there were no worries. Took me 3 hours to get up and 4 to get back (I hope i don't have to frequent that M50 on too many more bank holiday weekends).

Oh and i kept my plates up. Only time I got a bit worried was when I was on the way up and on the M7, was in the right lane overtaking (only doin bout 110-115) when i see in my rear view mirror a nice shiny police car up my arse. After over-taking I pulled straight in to the left lane and gladly saw them tear past me at about 140-150 easily. Other than that a pretty uneventful journey, although now I realise that a car without air con (my 00 Golf) stuck in traffic on a sweltering day can be a pretty uncomfortable experience. Although I spent much of the time on the M50 alongside a very nice Alfa Romeo Brera (first i've seen) so I just admired that for a while.

Thanks for the replies, and apologies to the two lads who got banned for their responses to my post (pretty harsh I felt).

Seinas

If you applied for your test you should have got a letter from your employer showing that you actually need a full licence for driving to work..

Posy

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Probably because the 'know it alls' have read the OP's post. At no stage does he say that he is driving unaccompanied.

But if he's driving with someone who has a full licence, he could just swap seats before they get to the motorway so he's obviously driving on his own or this wouldn't be a problem.

I don't think learners should be allowed on motorways but I think driving schools should be allowed drive on the motorway. An Irish School of Motoring instructor, for example, would not bring someone onto the motorway before they're ready, plus it'd be safer as most driving school cars have dual controls. Just a thought.
It must be strange for someone on a full licence driving an L plated car on the motorway (if their son/daughter/partner is learning) as it does look like they're breaking the law but they are perfectly innocent. :rolleyes:

Chakar

You can't drive on the motorways OP.

Its the law anyway. I guess you'll have to get your driving test done so.

Mitch Connor

Karyn wrote:

It must be strange for someone on a full licence driving an L plated car on the motorway (if their son/daughter/partner is learning) as it does look like they're breaking the law but they are perfectly innocent. :rolleyes:

Technically, i think they are breaking the law. I'm fairly certain a full licenced driver is required to remove the L plates when they are driving.

I would be shokced if you got pulled in and done for it, but i think it is a requirement.

Posy

Does anyone know this for certain? I'd find it strange if people have to pull over to unpeel the L plates before driving on the motorway. You'd need a good supply of spare L's.

Wishbone Ash

Tauren wrote:

a full licenced driver is required to remove the L plates when they are driving

That view is trotted out here fairly occasionally but no one is able to give any supporting evidence. I've never seen any prohibition in any of the Statutory Instruments.

Chakar

Tauren wrote:

Technically, i think they are breaking the law. I'm fairly certain a full licenced driver is required to remove the L plates when they are driving.

Its not against the law for a licensed driver to have a L plate while they're driving. I don't know where you got that idea.

Just think about it, if it was illegal it would be an insanely stupid law. There are so many scenarios involved in its enforcement if it was a law.

OP are you still driving on the motorways on a provisional licence?

Stark

I think people are getting the idea that a fully licenced driver isn't allowed display L-plates from UK law. It is illegal up North and in Great Britain to display L-plates when there's someone with a full licence in charge of the vehicle.

Btw, the AA shops sell L-plates that you can easily put on and peel off.

Idbatterim

the chance of being stopped on a motorway is very slim, as has been said many full license drivers share with learners and they dont get hassled. Even if you got stopped youd probably get away with a warning.

Royale with Cheese

Magnetic plates are the way to go. Although I have to take them off everytime I park in public cos some pikey scumbag would just nick them eventually.

Posy

Hmm.. I might get them magnetic plates. I had the peel off ones but they kept peeling off! I'd be driving and notice the L sliding onto the dashboard, d'oh! I have the sticky on ones now but they're a pain when washing the car, plus my car is borrowed occasionally by a fully licenced driver who's 'morto' to be seen with L's! Where do they go, down near the registration plates?

pigeonbutler

I'm on a 2nd provisional, named driver insurance on parents Yaris and waiting 11 months for a test. The first time I had to drive from Athlone to South Dublin I obeyed the motorway prohibition and vowed never to do that drive again. The old N4/N6 is an absolute deathtrap of a road. When motorway was built the limit was dropped from 100k to 80k but anyone driving at 80 would be bullied onto the hard shoulder all the way along it. Now I'll take the motorway all the time.

If a guard ever pulls me over I'll explain how long I've been waiting for a test and tell him I'd gladly take a fine rather than accept the much higher risk of a fatal accident on the old road. Compare the stats for accidents on single carriageway national routes versus Motorways/DCs and in my view risking a fine is a small price to pay for being able to walk at the end of my journey.

Marcus.Aurelius

Tony Danza wrote:

If I was you I'd go for it, doubt anything would happen if you did get pulled over.

Violating the terms of your license means mandatory court summons.

There is no fine or points, its summons!! Don't chance it, I've seen a few L platers arrested for it.

EDIT: I don't think motorways are more dangerous, but if there was a sudden braking, L-platers are slower to react and less experienced and may cause more accidents. If you are an L-plater and you have an accident on a motorway, your insurance company (and the third party's one) do not have to cover you (whether you're in the right or wrong) because you're driving outside the terms of your license. Traffic Corps will not be kind if they spot you.

Stark

Your insurance has to cover you for third party even if you're driving outside the terms of your licence. They are however entitled to turn around a sue you to reclaim their costs. Your comprehensive insurance will be void.

Royale with Cheese

Karyn wrote:

Hmm.. I might get them magnetic plates. I had the peel off ones but they kept peeling off! I'd be driving and notice the L sliding onto the dashboard, d'oh! I have the sticky on ones now but they're a pain when washing the car, plus my car is borrowed occasionally by a fully licenced driver who's 'morto' to be seen with L's! Where do they go, down near the registration plates?

I just stick the front one near the front of the bonnet and the back one on the right hand side just next to the reg plate. You can put them anywhere you want though as long as they're visible. I had the front one just where the roof meets the windscreen once and was stopped to check for tax and insurance and the gards didn't say anything about it... nevermind driving on my own without a full licence.

cson

There's some sort of anomoly in the law regarding that AFAIK. The guards never seem to pursue any course of action against someone who is driving unaccompanied.

Stark

There's no anomaly in the law; the gardaí just can't be arsed.

Wishbone Ash

pigeonbutler wrote:

If a guard ever pulls me over I'll explain how long I've been waiting for a test and tell him I'd gladly take a fine rather than accept the much higher risk of a fatal accident on the old road.

Like many young drivers you seem to have adopted an 'invincible' attitude. Whether you are stopped by Gardaí is irrevelant. The crux of the matter will evolve if you are involved in an accident. You insurance company may legitimately claim that you are driving beyond the legitimate limits of your licence and therefore forfeit your insurance cover (excepting 3rd party).

Chakar

pigeonbutler wrote:

I'm on a 2nd provisional, named driver insurance on parents Yaris and waiting 11 months for a test. Now I'll take the motorway all the time.

Pigeonbutler that is the law. If you cannot obey the law which is there for a good reason then you will be caught. You are actually justifying breaking the prohibition over speeding on the 'old road'. If people want to overtake you then they may do so at the appropriate time according to road conditions.

bonkey

Chakar wrote:

If you cannot obey the law which is there for a good reason

It doesn't matter whether the law is there for a good or bad reason.

The law is there and thats all that matters.

If you can't obey it, particularly as a learner, then you shouldn't be on the road.

ETA: My first thought when I read the thread title of this....A learner needing to use the motorway? Is there actually somewhere that you can only get to by motorway in Ireland?