Nurses Strike?

purple'n'gold

Public pay is out of control, mainly due to benchmarking. That is a licence to print money. If the nurses get more money, over and above benchmarking, the teachers and others will just piggyback. It’s all got to stop somewhere. Don’t forget, no public servants actually produce anything. I’m not knocking nurses or teachers, just stating facts.

Glenbhoy

Seanies32 wrote:

I think the Govt. know that yes of course the nurses have public sympathy but if the strike goes on that will lessen.

I haven't met anyone who has any sympathy with them - now I've only discussed it with 5/6 others, 3 of them health professionals and 3 rabid capitalist scum. Do the public really have sympathy?

If anybody had seen the adds in the paper for new recruits in the Civil Service they would have seen that the starting salary is only 400 euro a week (before tax)

There won't be any tax on these jobs if that's the salary.

sovtek

purplengold wrote:

Don’t forget, no public servants actually produce anything.

And what does Michael O'Leary produce? They provide a service...exactly what a public SERVANT is supposed to do .

gazzer

There won't be any tax on these jobs if that's the salary.

Not true.. Whilst not a lot of tax would be paid out of 400 a week around 12 euro would be taken for tax and 11 for PRSI. Now im basing that tax figure on a single person living at home.

purple'n'gold

sovtek wrote:

And what does Michael O'Leary produce? They provide a service...exactly what a public SERVANT is supposed to do .

They can provide the greatest service on the planet, but at the end of the day they make no money for the country. And, if the service Michael O’ Leary is providing is not working out he goes out of business. Public servants never go out of business.

CiDeRmAn

Can't believe someone actually places value on labour according to what they produce? What the hell type of thinking is that?
So, unless you generate wealth directly your labour is worthless and rights forfeit?
The efforts by the nurses and all those working in the public service is to create and support the society structure itself, if the public services didn't exist it would have to be created, providing for all citizens, not just those who can pay for private services.
Therein lies the rub, we are getting so used to paying for things that should be alread covered by our taxes, paying for private health, private childcare, extra tuition, paying charges for water, bin charges, road tax, Vrt etc.
These taxes subvert the various hikes in wealth the population has recieved, rendering most pay increases nominal, trying to keep up with the cost of living at best.
As a nurse I see that folk have assumed our jobs are non essential, I hope now those people are quietened, I hope they see that the work of the nurse is just as precious as that of the wealth producing classes, which is another aspect of this, a class issue, as a nurse I am not "beneath" anyone else, I am well trained and skilled, I simply choose to employ my skill in an area that profits society in ways that can't be counted on a balancesheet, not that the HSE isn't trying.
I deserve a wage increase because the type of labour I do has changed immeasurably since I started this lark in '90.
I have far more duties and find the work far more demanding than ever before, why shouldn't I have my income represent that?
I have the absolute right to strike, all of us do, you want to take that away? then pay me my due.

El Stuntman

question to Ciderman: would you consider changing career into one wehere you will be better rewarded financially?

is_that_so

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Can't believe someone actually places value on labour according to what they produce? What the hell type of thinking is that?
So, unless you generate wealth directly your labour is worthless and rights forfeit?
The efforts by the nurses and all those working in the public service is to create and support the society structure itself, if the public services didn't exist it would have to be created, providing for all citizens, not just those who can pay for private services.
Therein lies the rub, we are getting so used to paying for things that should be alread covered by our taxes, paying for private health, private childcare, extra tuition, paying charges for water, bin charges, road tax, Vrt etc.
These taxes subvert the various hikes in wealth the population has recieved, rendering most pay increases nominal, trying to keep up with the cost of living at best.
As a nurse I see that folk have assumed our jobs are non essential, I hope now those people are quietened, I hope they see that the work of the nurse is just as precious as that of the wealth producing classes, which is another aspect of this, a class issue, as a nurse I am not "beneath" anyone else, I am well trained and skilled, I simply choose to employ my skill in an area that profits society in ways that can't be counted on a balancesheet, not that the HSE isn't trying.
I deserve a wage increase because the type of labour I do has changed immeasurably since I started this lark in '90.
I have far more duties and find the work far more demanding than ever before, why shouldn't I have my income represent that?
I have the absolute right to strike, all of us do, you want to take that away? then pay me my due.

With respect , if all you can measure your job by is the number of duties you carry out , it may be time for another job. I don't begrudge anyone an increase, but they need to convince me that they are actually worth it beyond a basic cost of living increase. As they say where's the bang for my buck?

Benchmarking has not done this. For those in the public service, it has been free cash with no strings attached. What the nurses and other public servants forget is we are all paying for it. If this dispute were in the private sector , the company would have closed its doors by now.

CiDeRmAn

No, I love my job, I've been providing care to people with a mental handicap since my teenage years, i started doing voluntary work when I was 14, then when I left school I went to the US to do voluntary work on a summer camp for people with learning disabilities, then I went to Sligo and did my nurse training for 3 years, as it used to be then, that was in 1990, I cane back to Dublin and have been attached to a major service for those with a learning disability since then.
Basically my life, thus far, and that of my wife has been spent caring for those folk, those that the state has entrusted in my care.
I love my job, I don't really pay all that much attention to money in truth.
My wife is the best damn nurse I know, going way above the call of duty to care for those in her charge.
The things I have seen and had to do in my years of service have been at times hard but always rewarding in their own way.
And while I have been offered a clinical nurse manager post in a service an ex-colleague established I choose to continue where I am, where I know I can do good work, and make a real difference.
This is what we don't have in common with those in the private sector, a recent post assumed because we produced no wealth we somehow are lesser, we should have lower expectations, however taken from another angle, we labour for all of you, we provide the hard graft in an area most people find intimidating and frightening, we enrich the lives of the clients in our care and try to provide the type of support they need to widen their choices, choices they wouldn't otherwise have, a life they wouldn't otherwise have.
Ask any family of someone in residential or respite care if the nurses are worth it and you'll get the same answer, yes.
I shouldn't expect people with no contact with this sector of Irish life to understand at all what we do or its intrinsic value.
So, no I wouldn't want to change career, not ever. I would, in fact, always find a way to work in this field, even if it was for nothing.

sovtek

purplengold wrote:

They can provide the greatest service on the planet, but at the end of the day they make no money for the country.

Yes they do! You think keeping people healthy, educating the population...planning infrastructure..etc etc doesn't make money for the country?

And, if the service Michael O’ Leary is providing is not working out he goes out of business.

That's assuming a healthy competative climate in the respective industry...which is lacking at the moment.

Public servants never go out of business.

Not until civilisation as we know it ceases to exist.

sovtek

is_that_so wrote:

If this dispute were in the private sector , the company would have closed its doors by now.

All the more reason unions are needed now more than ever.

El Stuntman

sovtek wrote:

All the more reason unions are needed now more than ever.

the companies whose business built this tiger economy (Dell, Microsoft etc)would run a mile out of here if unionisation was to be suggested in their facilities

and their employees still seem quite happy

so I disagree....

El Stuntman

CiDeRmAn wrote:

No, I love my job, I've been providing care to people with a mental handicap since my teenage years, i started doing voluntary work when I was 14, then when I left school I went to the US to do voluntary work on a summer camp for people with learning disabilities, then I went to Sligo and did my nurse training for 3 years, as it used to be then, that was in 1990, I cane back to Dublin and have been attached to a major service for those with a learning disability since then.
Basically my life, thus far, and that of my wife has been spent caring for those folk, those that the state has entrusted in my care.
I love my job, I don't really pay all that much attention to money in truth.
My wife is the best damn nurse I know, going way above the call of duty to care for those in her charge.
The things I have seen and had to do in my years of service have been at times hard but always rewarding in their own way.
And while I have been offered a clinical nurse manager post in a service an ex-colleague established I choose to continue where I am, where I know I can do good work, and make a real difference.
This is what we don't have in common with those in the private sector, a recent post assumed because we produced no wealth we somehow are lesser, we should have lower expectations, however taken from another angle, we labour for all of you, we provide the hard graft in an area most people find intimidating and frightening, we enrich the lives of the clients in our care and try to provide the type of support they need to widen their choices, choices they wouldn't otherwise have, a life they wouldn't otherwise have.
Ask any family of someone in residential or respite care if the nurses are worth it and you'll get the same answer, yes.
I shouldn't expect people with no contact with this sector of Irish life to understand at all what we do or its intrinsic value.
So, no I wouldn't want to change career, not ever. I would, in fact, always find a way to work in this field, even if it was for nothing.

wow, excellent.

I wish I was so fulfilled in my career

LuckyLloyd

El Stuntman wrote:

the companies whose business built this tiger economy (Dell, Microsoft etc)would run a mile out of here if unionisation was to be suggested in their facilities

and their employees still seem quite happy

so I disagree....

This is 100% reality. A move back towards greater Unionisation of the general work force would start us down the magical road back to an unproductive, uncompetative and low employment economic environment.


I would just like to opine that in terms of healthcare workers, the fact that they do not produce wealth or tangible product in an economy should not enter into a discussion of their importance to the economy or an assessment of a fair rate of pay for what they do (as raised above by a different poster than El Stuntman). Frankly, such a suggestion is ludicrous. As noted by a poster above, they are an integral part of a neccesary Public service that helps to maintain the productivity and well being of the general work - force; and as such they contribute in a very real way to the general efficiency of the Irish economy.

Any arguments against increased pay on the basis that work carried out be Nurses every day work does not directly increase the quantifiable outputs of the Irish economy are pure twaddle.

El Stuntman

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

I would just like to opine that in terms of healthcare workers, the fact that they do not produce wealth or tangible product in an economy should not enter into a discussion of their importance to the economy or an assessment of a fair rate of pay for what they do (as raised above by a different poster than El Stuntman). Frankly, such a suggestion is ludicrous. As noted by a poster above, they are an integral part of a neccesary Public service that helps to maintain the productivity and well being of the general work - force; and as such they contribute in a very real way to the general efficiency of the Irish economy.

who let you out of the poker forum? remember the mustard debacle

good point though - and there is a mechanism for setting such a fair rate of pay, it's called benchmarking. This is an opportunistic smash 'n grab outside of that process and if the government don't hold the line here, we will all (public sector/private sector alike) be worse off in the long run.

This in no way diminishes the vital role that nurses play in our society...

(excellent article by Marc Coleman in today's IT, I'd be indebted if anyone with an online sub would copy and paste it here)

K-9

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Therein lies the rub, we are getting so used to paying for things that should be alread covered by our taxes, paying for private health, private childcare, extra tuition, paying charges for water, bin charges, road tax, Vrt etc.
These taxes subvert the various hikes in wealth the population has recieved, rendering most pay increases nominal, trying to keep up with the cost of living at best.
As a nurse I see that folk have assumed our jobs are non essential, I hope now those people are quietened, I hope they see that the work of the nurse is just as precious as that of the wealth producing classes, which is another aspect of this, a class issue, as a nurse I am not "beneath" anyone else, I am well trained and skilled, I simply choose to employ my skill in an area that profits society in ways that can't be counted on a balancesheet, not that the HSE isn't trying.
.

We don't have great services because we are a low tax economy.

If we want free health, childcare subsidised etc. we will have to pay high taxes like the 80's of 35-55%.

Or else as in Germany everybody gets 14% of their wages deducted to go directly to the health system. If we want the great services you chat about be prepared for maybe giving 40/50% of your wages over to the Govt. like in Germany and Sweden

Lemming

CiDeRmAn wrote:

The efforts by the nurses and all those working in the public service is to create and support the society structure itself, if the public services didn't exist it would have to be created, providing for all citizens, not just those who can pay for private services.

Therein lies the rub, we are getting so used to paying for things that should be alread covered by our taxes, paying for private health, private childcare, extra tuition, paying charges for water, bin charges, road tax, Vrt etc.
These taxes subvert the various hikes in wealth the population has recieved, rendering most pay increases nominal, trying to keep up with the cost of living at best.

I'm surprised that nobody has (apparently) spotted this. Because this, I believe, is a fairly central point around public sector pay.

The question that should be asked is _why_ are we so used to paying over the odds for private this, that and t he other, when public alternatives are in place? In short, public sector pay is one of the core drives behind inflation in this country. As more and more gets sunk into it, we get less and less for our (being private) money and thus have to then start looking for more and more private options because the public sector finance doesn't exist due to inept planning/lack of cash/top-heavy-salary-costs/whatever.

Do I think the nurses should be heard? Absolutely. Do I think that pay rises should be granted. If justifiable. Nobody "deserves" pay rises. N.O.B.O.D.Y.

But with any strike agreement must come a political will from all sides to actually gut (I'm of the opinion the health services in this country are far beyond "easy correction") and rebuild the health services effectively. And that includes whatever decisions are necessary no matter how unpalatable.

El Stuntman

Lemming wrote:

But with any strike agreement must come a political will from all sides to actually gut (I'm of the opinion the health services in this country are far beyond "easy correction") and rebuild the health services effectively. And that includes whatever decisions are necessary no matter how unpalatable.

excellent point, I would argue similar is required in relation to the ESB and all public transport arms

what do you see as these 'necessary decisions'?

purple'n'gold

Seanies32 wrote:

We don't have great services because we are a low tax economy.

If we want free health, childcare subsidised etc. we will have to pay high taxes like the 80's of 35-55%.

Or else as in Germany everybody gets 14% of their wages deducted to go directly to the health system. If we want the great services you chat about be prepared for maybe giving 40/50% of your wages over to the Govt. like in Germany and Sweden

If we in Ireland were to pay these sort of percentages in tax, the government would simply give it back to the public servants, for the same level of service we now “enjoy” (this is called benchmarking, the biggest con job since the sting)

Antonin Yuram

I would, in fact, always find a way to work in this field, even if it was for nothing.

and yet you're working to rule, and possibly going to strike, looking for more money and fewer hours :rolleyes:

Lemming

El Stuntman wrote:

excellent point, I would argue similar is required in relation to the ESB and all public transport arms

That goes without saying, but we're speaking in the context of the nurses strike. Since they're all public bodies, they're all going to have to be tackled at some point.

what do you see as these 'necessary decisions'?

I wrote about this ages ago, but the general gist (some of it anyway) is as follows;

1: Cull the health boards.

There are wayyyyy, wayyyy too many of them given both the size of this country and its population. Each health board has its own 'board' drawing board-level salaries. The problem here is that each health board is really only a branch, yet they are being treated as seperated entities. Thus each has its own CEO-equivalent, head accountant, head this that and the other. Treat them as branches - close, amalgamate, ditch the top-heavy-managerial-administrative costs associated with the huge number of boards.

2: Cull the HSE.

It is utterly inept and self-serving. And I speak from personal dealings with the HSE at a professional level. There are some very good people in there. Unfortunately, they seem to be somewhat a very small minority ....

3: Hospital management.

There is a massive amount of waste within the hospitals. Whilst each hospital is its own entity, i think there needs to be a strong look at the administrative vs. patient-care costs in hospitals. With that also comes tackling some of the various self-interest groups within the hospitals head-on. For example, consultants cherry-picking private patients and handing their public patients over to junior doctors whilst also getting paid for it.


Perhaps gutting the HSE as it stands, and amalgamating all three of my points into one overall body, called the HSE might be an idea. Regional branches would deal with catchment areas, with hospitals as a seperate arm of the HSE, thus still semi-autonomous, but answerable to higher powers without politicians sticking their oar in.

it'd free up a lot of wasted money that could moved to where its needed - providing services for patients that aren't verging on the US model.

On top of this, the concept of benchmarking, as it stands, needs to be thrown right out the window.It's simply not working and causing far more damage to this country's long-term outlook than any short-term crisis.

CiDeRmAn

Antonin Yuram wrote:

and yet you're working to rule, and possibly going to strike, looking for more money and fewer hours :rolleyes:

Yeah, well let me tell you about my strike yesterday, or rather the 1 hour work stoppage, because of shortages I was the only nurse on duty on my unit so I couldn't down tools, therefore the clients were taken out for their lunch, as their lives don't stop just because the unions say we do.

Don't be so bloody cynical.
This is what I do and to a large extent now what I am too, a nurse caring for those with a learning disability, the very last thing I ever want to do is walk away leaving my unit short and unable to function, its against my and my colleagues better nature.
Don't think we just choose to use industrial action lightly, and watch how that industrial action has been the most limited way.

I still, however, want to paid my due.

Why is it that people expect services that are naturally labour intensive to cost nothing?

Perhaps if the budgets are what concerns folk they would be better to direct their anger towards the joke that is the HSE and to the health minister who seems to have set them up to redirect blame for the disaster that is her remit.

mickoneill30

CiDeRmAn wrote:

I still, however, want to paid my due.

Why is it that people expect services that are naturally labour intensive to cost nothing?

That's the point isn't it. People don't mind paying for services. They do mind giving a 10% pay increase plus a 10% hour reduction.

And you are being paid your due. The wages have been listed over and over again on these forums.

I don't blame the INO nurses though. If I was one I'd go along with the strike. What would I have to lose? If they lose they've lost nothing (except public support but that doesn't pay the wages) but if they win they're much better off. Worth a gamble in my opinion. I can't really see them winning though. They'll get the 35 hour week. The governments already said they'll talk about that but they won't get the 10% pay increase. Even the opposition aren't for that and they normally promise the sun moon and stars for a few votes.

metrovelvet

Lemming wrote:

That goes without saying, but we're speaking in the context of the nurses strike. Since they're all public bodies, they're all going to have to be tackled at some point.



I wrote about this ages ago, but the general gist (some of it anyway) is as follows;

1: Cull the health boards.

There are wayyyyy, wayyyy too many of them given both the size of this country and its population. Each health board has its own 'board' drawing board-level salaries. The problem here is that each health board is really only a branch, yet they are being treated as seperated entities. Thus each has its own CEO-equivalent, head accountant, head this that and the other. Treat them as branches - close, amalgamate, ditch the top-heavy-managerial-administrative costs associated with the huge number of boards.

2: Cull the HSE.

It is utterly inept and self-serving. And I speak from personal dealings with the HSE at a professional level. There are some very good people in there. Unfortunately, they seem to be somewhat a very small minority ....

3: Hospital management.

There is a massive amount of waste within the hospitals. Whilst each hospital is its own entity, i think there needs to be a strong look at the administrative vs. patient-care costs in hospitals. With that also comes tackling some of the various self-interest groups within the hospitals head-on. For example, consultants cherry-picking private patients and handing their public patients over to junior doctors whilst also getting paid for it.


Perhaps gutting the HSE as it stands, and amalgamating all three of my points into one overall body, called the HSE might be an idea. Regional branches would deal with catchment areas, with hospitals as a seperate arm of the HSE, thus still semi-autonomous, but answerable to higher powers without politicians sticking their oar in.

it'd free up a lot of wasted money that could moved to where its needed - providing services for patients that aren't verging on the US model.

On top of this, the concept of benchmarking, as it stands, needs to be thrown right out the window.It's simply not working and causing far more damage to this country's long-term outlook than any short-term crisis.

And to add to that- stop consultants getting private fees on the back of the public health system. Make them pay rent for their offices and for using the facilities and supplies of public health resources which are paid for by Irish tax payers.

Wurly

hmmm wrote:

Nurses keeping a straight face while talking about it just being a work to rule are trying to make out the public are fools. I've nothing in my contract about using computers, answering phones or writing using pens that don't contain invisible ink, but that doesn't mean it isn't part of my job.

I was actually rooting for you when I sad that, not going against you. Shouldnt have bothered eh! haha

fly_agaric

CiDeRmAn wrote:

therefore the clients were taken out for their lunch

I just love that management/economics jargon term for "patients" or "residents" or whatever it used to be! Cash for services rendered.:)
When I read it, it gives me that warm glow a banker might get from running handfuls of filthy lucre through his greasy fingers.
I see you must be quite attached to it too!

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Don't be so bloody cynical.

Why not? Nurses and their unions have been plenty cynical.
Cynical in the serendipitous timing of this industrial action.
Cynical in the extremely large demands they are making (obviously they think they may yet get more "buck for their bang" out of our jellyfish politicians because of that excellent timing!).

CiDeRmAn wrote:

I still, however, want to paid my due.

What is that exactly? Who would you compare yourselves to?
I mean, plenty of people in other arguably far less critical professions earn more than nurses do. How did the union come up with the 10 % anyway?
(I know it sounds more reasonable than 23 % [assuming no reduction in earnings due to a shorter week?] I suppose)

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Perhaps if the budgets are what concerns folk they would be better to direct their anger towards the joke that is the HSE and to the health minister who seems to have set them up to redirect blame for the disaster that is her remit.

How will the nurses action make the health service run better?

Is it because if the demands are met nurses will be so over the moon they'll do the divil and all until by a miracle all the problems are solved? Maybe they'll become wonder-workers, willingly doing all kinds of stuff that would formerly have met with a "not in my job description"! :eek:

Glenbhoy

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Yeah, well let me tell you about my strike yesterday, or rather the 1 hour work stoppage, because of shortages I was the only nurse on duty on my unit so I couldn't down tools, therefore the clients were taken out for their lunch, as their lives don't stop just because the unions say we do.

So, if i understand what you're saying correctly (and i'm not sure that i do), whilst your unit could not afford to let anyone down tools for one hour, a number of other units could, and were still able to function adequately, does that mean there's overstaffing?? Maybe that's what Harney should do, allocate the same money as before, but cull the numbers, hence the likes of yourself would get the money you deserve. Or maybe, there's no deadwood in the nursing sector?

E92

From RTE.ie: Meanwhile, the Irish Nurses Organisation has said the move by other health service workers to seek a 35-hour week is unhelpful.
The full story is here http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0415/nurses.html
Why is it unhelpful?
I do feel sorry for the nurses, my old man is a doctor, so I realise what their job entails, but I think that the INO have shot themselves in the foot by saying that the move by other health service workers to seek a 35-hour week is 'unhelpful'. This will all be music to the ears of Bertie Ahern(and more importantly the government), who strangely has said nothing at all on it, nor is he involved in trying to sort out the problem to my knowledge, which is most unlike him; well I suppose its amazing what the prospect of an election coming can do, he must be figuring that the public are not with the nurses in their claim, and to be honest after saying what they did, I've lost a lot of my sympathy for them; you can't have it both ways, its a bit like Animal Farm (with the INO saying what they did) 'all animals are equal but some are more equal than others' now it seems.

K-9

E92 wrote:

From RTE.ie: Meanwhile, the Irish Nurses Organisation has said the move by other health service workers to seek a 35-hour week is unhelpful.
The full story is here http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0415/nurses.html
Why is it unhelpful?
I do feel sorry for the nurses, my old man is a doctor, so I realise what their job entails, but I think that the INO have shot themselves in the foot by saying that the move by other health service workers to seek a 35-hour week is 'unhelpful'. This will all be music to the ears of Bertie Ahern(and more importantly the government), who strangely has said nothing at all on it, nor is he involved in trying to sort out the problem to my knowledge, which is most unlike him; well I suppose its amazing what the prospect of an election coming can do, he must be figuring that the public are not with the nurses in their claim, and to be honest after saying what they did, I've lost a lot of my sympathy for them; you can't have it both ways, its a bit like Animal Farm (with the INO saying what they did) 'all animals are equal but some are more equal than others' now it seems.

Bertie knows its to his political adavantage to appear strong against the unions. Prudence etc. is the buzz word now. And before the Nurses Unions moan about politics, why are they striking with an election coming up?

http:///www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS+FEATURES-qqqm=nav-qqqid=22726-qqqx=1.asp

I know its the Business post, but they make a good point about can the Nurses depend on public support with an election and more important subjects than a particular unions pay claims coming up.

Another link:

http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/News/Comment&id=65903&SUBCAT=Tribune/News&SUBCATNAME=News

It seems because the Nurses Unions didn't argue there position very well at the last benchmarking and only got the same increases on average as everybodyelse (well except for the guards and prison officers who got less) well, they can go on strike now.

IMO, Nurses are getting a lot of bad publicity because of benchmarking etc. Unfair? Yes. It's not their fault? Yes. Yet but they have chosen an election to make their point, so tough! Nurses ballotted on this strike, so you's had your choice, for better or for worse.

Nurses are saying they are not happy with benchmarking. Well so is everybody else outside of the public sector and even some of the unions within it.

Maybe give the Nurses there demands now and exclude them from benchmarking 2 coming up. They don't believe in benchmarking, fair enough, give them their demand now and exclude them from the extra 10% they will get from benchmarking.

Of course it doesn't work like that. If they get their demands, next thing it will be, Nurses: sure we didn't get benchmarking: Employers: well you didn't want it: Nurses:Ah but thats unfair, And by the way we need more nurses because we work less hours: Etc. etc. etc.

redspider

I was in an A&E at a major acute hospital over the weekend for an extended period of time (8 hrs, not for myself I might add), and here is some anecdotal evidence that sheds some light on Nurses, Consultants and the Health service in general.

For one, we all know that Nurses and Doctors do a good job. However, the bottleneck seems to me to be access to Doctors and expertise, NOT Nurses.

If anything, the A&E wards had too many nurses. They were just sauntering around, walking around at a snails pace. I've seen busier McDonald's 'kitchens' on a regular basis, indeed much busier. And there was a queue of people waiting to be seen outside many of them in pain most likely.

Granted, it wasnt the busiest period (such as a Sat night past midnight), but if anything there was within this 8 hr sample too many nurses. They had far too much time for chatting with patients and themselves for my liking.

The deficiency in this part of the system was access to Doctors. Junior Doctors were scarce on the ground. Consultants were a rarer beast and a specialist in a particular area was rarer still if available at all, given that it was a weekend!

Some solutions:

1. More Doctors, NOW --- ship them in, Junior ones, and the next level up.

2. Consultants - lay down the law that 200K is the best and FINAL offer. That is more than enough for anybody, and appoint more of them (but see 3).

3. Outsource Consultancy - in MOST cases there is no need for a Consultant (expert) to physically see the patient. A phone-call and a description of the situation from the Junior Doctors is all that's necessary to finalise the diagnosis and course of action. So, rather than having Consultants work in a physical hospital, they can telecommute and be on the end of a phone line and be shared across the country. Akin to shared services in other sectors. Also, they do NOT need to be even based in Ireland. I am sure that there are consultants that are available with expertise at a cheaper rate than 200k per annum somewhere else on this planet, think India/Poland, etc, and be available at all hours as well as being MUCH cheaper if off-shored.

4. Nurses - join the queue, look at yourselves, work harder, 'train' in /observe a busy McDonald's for a while. If other workers are working 35 hrs then you should be granted this and it could be brought in in time, BUT within the benchmarking process, which has given public sector workers a better deal than the commercial sector (40% of all employees in this country are working on the minimum wage).

5. Junior Doctors should have a 35 hr week brought in asap, and Public Consultants should be forced to work a 35 hr week on public patients only. What they do in their spare time is a matter for themselves, whether it is private work or golf is immaterial.

Of course there are problems with the HSE, with administration, etc, and these need to be tackled too.


just my observations ...

Redspider