The Nurses.

ellenmelon

nevf wrote:

Let no-one come here and say that nurses are the criminals, they're just the victims working harsh hours and under faulty management...

amen. that pretty much sums it up. overpaid and faulty management.

Rev Hellfire

Well as someone who had to go through the A&E department on Saturday morning with my daughter I'll have to say I didn't notice a huge drop in the efficiency of the place. The impression that some people have of the nurses sitting around chewing the cud and doing nothing certainly wasn’t evident from where I was. The main delays we experienced where in actually was in waiting for a member of the surgical team to be freed up and able to deal with us, who was called four times. When the surgeon did arrive, the main impact of the strike was that it was he who had to go down to see if they had button rather than send a nurse.

It certainly seems like there is quite a bit of scaremongering on the part of HSE going on from what I can see.

K-9

nevf wrote:

Well, if they stopped spending millions of euro on stupid budgets and emplying people through political Pull as management of the HSE, it would sort out a lot of the problems with HSE and the like.

Agreed, sort out the waste first.

nevf wrote:

Or maybe how a staff nurse with 9months nursing experience can become a Director of Nursing in a nursing home with little more qualifications of a driving licence and absoloutley no management skills what-so-ever, and beat(by 1%) a Clinical Nursing Manager with all management courses completed, and 27years experience.

Well, how a inexperienced nurse can become a Director of Nursing in a nursing home is the issue here not the wages and hours of 40,000 Nurses.

nevf wrote:

Could you imagine how much better off we would all be if they got rid of all those major glitches in the HSE, if they straightened the HSE and the hospitals out once and for all, they could easily save up to €2billion a year easily, and stop making crap decisions by un-qualified "professionals", they could easily afford to pay nurses for what the nurses deserve, and still have money to straighten out the A&E and all those other problems.

Exactly cut the €2Billion waste and the nurses demands could be financed easily.

nevf wrote:

Let no-one come here and say that nurses are the criminals, they're just the victims working harsh hours and under faulty management, and it's them bastards in Fianna Fail and the HSE that are promoting the nurses as being bad people when they flaunder money to all their political pull homies that they have scattered across the HSE in all the regions.

Bertie agrees with the 35 Hr. week. It has to implemented (which will take serious organisation) and planned first. Or would you prefer to give them the the demands from tomorrow and plunge the Health Service into more chaos.

K-9

It seems from newspaper articled that a lot of Nurses don't actually work 39 Hours. They also have flexi time and family friendly times. There are far worse inequities in the Health System.

Maybe the Nurses should be moved down the waiting list:)

FlutterinBantam

Listen....I have the answer...We'll throw a few more million of taxpayers money into the health service,and watch in awe as it is easily absorbed into the morass of ineptitude and unionised vested interests,where the different grades excel themselves in promoting their own interests with a total disregard for the poor slob who is paying for all this----Me!!! and YOU!!!

K-9

Or lets cut the wages of all the overpaid administrators etc. etc. that everybody is on about and give the money to the Nurses.

The Unions would love that.

sam34

nevf and ellenmelon - since when is a 39 hr wk considered "harsh"??? most people in this country work that, if not more. granted, nurses work night shifts, which im not denying are tough, but so do loads of people in factories etc, and the junior doctors in this country work continuous day-and-night shifts eg from 9am monday through to 5pm tuesday. nurses do 12 hr or maybe 13 hr night shifts, and in most places after coming off night duty they get time off to compensate. sounds cushy not harsh to me.

FlutterinBantam

Seanies32 wrote:

Or lets cut the wages of all the overpaid administrators etc. etc. that everybody is on about and give the money to the Nurses.

The Unions would love that.

And watch the absenteesim rate rise off the clock as the nurses don't worry about coming in as they are paid over and above the going rate.

Judt

My brother is considering training for the ambulance service. He tells me that he'd rather do that than go to college because, as he worked out and was told by the people at the careers fair, you get paid far more than a nurse and practically speaking, get a lot less s**t. Oftentimes literally.

Nurses are an essential part of our workforce. Yet so few Irish people go into nursing we have to bring them in from countries far and wide. Now pray tell, why would an Irishperson in this modern economy not go into a job many have gone into previously?

Money and working conditions.

Nurses do a better and more valuable job than I do, yet I get paid double what nurses my parents age get. Odd, huh?

FlutterinBantam

You obviously get paid far too much.

Judt

FlutterinBantam wrote:

You obviously get paid far too much.

Obviously you know what I do for a living and how much money I earn for the people I work for. But I still don't save lives.

In a capitalistic society somebody is always going to earn more than you. But it's the measure of those gaps that tells us where the differences lie.

nesf

Judt wrote:

Nurses are an essential part of our workforce. Yet so few Irish people go into nursing we have to bring them in from countries far and wide. Now pray tell, why would an Irishperson in this modern economy not go into a job many have gone into previously?

Eh, the CAO application numbers for Nursing are, in fairness, very healthy. There are a lot of young Irish people who want to go into nursing and train in it. The issue seems to be with keeping them and the gap between graduates and nurses a few years down the line.

The flip side of it is that it very much is a vocation, and really is the kind of thing that you are either cut out for or aren't. It isn't a sector we can simply "push" people into, like we did with IT etc.

K-9

sam34 wrote:

nevf and ellenmelon - since when is a 39 hr wk considered "harsh"??? most people in this country work that, if not more. granted, nurses work night shifts, which im not denying are tough, but so do loads of people in factories etc, and the junior doctors in this country work continuous day-and-night shifts eg from 9am monday through to 5pm tuesday. nurses do 12 hr or maybe 13 hr night shifts, and in most places after coming off night duty they get time off to compensate. sounds cushy not harsh to me.

They often work 4 or 3 day weeks as well, though obviuosly long shifts buts thats their choice if the want 3/4 days of a week. You'd think they where forced to work long shifts.

Some work 70/80 hours a week and then get the next week off. It's personal choice, not slave labour.

Judt wrote:

My brother is considering training for the ambulance service. He tells me that he'd rather do that than go to college because, as he worked out and was told by the people at the careers fair, you get paid far more than a nurse and practically speaking, get a lot less s**t. Oftentimes literally.

Nurses are an essential part of our workforce. Yet so few Irish people go into nursing we have to bring them in from countries far and wide. Now pray tell, why would an Irishperson in this modern economy not go into a job many have gone into previously?

Money and working conditions.

Nurses do a better and more valuable job than I do, yet I get paid double what nurses my parents age get. Odd, huh?

The ambulance is a tough job to and they have their issues over working conditions to. If they are overpaid then cut their wages and give it to the nurses.

So are you suggesting that you either half your wage or that we double nurses wages?

Judt

So are you suggesting that you either half your wage or that we double nurses wages?

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

K-9

Judt wrote:

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

Then how come Public sector wages are higher than private sector.

http:///www.rte.ie/business/2005/0223/cso.html

Figures are 2 years old but no substantial change since.

Of course 43% is a generalisation and there are anomalies but overall this would show that Public sector wages are a serious problem, not private sector wages.

nesf

Judt wrote:

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

You want private sector wages combined with public sector tenure? Seriously, that should never happen.

FlutterinBantam

nesf wrote:

You want private sector wages combined with public sector tenure? Seriously, that should never happen.

Nesf!! I'm surprised.

Doran and his ilk never ever ever mention public service tenure. NEVER

What they want is the index linked pensions, the security of tenure AND as much and more than the pvt sector.

they want their cake AND eat it

ExoduS 18.11

DarkJager wrote:

Whinging about not having a 35 hour week and wanting more pay again, even though they succeeded with a similiar protest a few years back. Money grabbing bastards the lot of them, they make me absolutely sick with the whining they go on with.

Bit Harsh don't you think? Whats your occupation?

FlutterinBantam

His occupation has nothing got to do with it.

He is spot on in my opinion.

FlutterinBantam

Judt wrote:

Obviously you know what I do for a living and how much money I earn for the people I work for. But I still don't save lives.

In a capitalistic society somebody is always going to earn more than you. But it's the measure of those gaps that tells us where the differences lie.

Holy God.... Give the religious 600k pa ...they save souls.

get real sunshine.

K-9

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

Bit Harsh don't you think? Whats your occupation?

Exactly, this is nurses thread.

Anyway looking at the Business Post seems a lot of Nurses don't work 39 hours, by choice.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=22569-qqqx=1.asp

Seems the Unions want to have their Cake and eat it.

Reduced working week for the minority that actually work 39 Hours plus increased wages for those on flexi time/ part time/ family friendly rosters.

Those HSE slave drivers. Forcing Nurses into part time and family friendly rosters.

mikemac

"No, no, no Lisa. When adults don't like their jobs they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do a half-assed job. That's the American way."

Homer Simpson:)

ucd_guy

From RTE News:

Liam Doran, General Secretary of the INO, said that all essential and emergency care would be maintained during the stoppages.

Breda Kavanagh, General Manager at South Tipperary Hospital in Clonmel, said she expected that the work stoppages would result in the cancellation of some surgery and out-patient appointments.

Yeah, because of all the people going around having unnecessary and unessential surgeries. Fools! What are those cancer patients thinking?

In fairness can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if a friend or relative had an operation delayed in Vincent's or Tipperary because the nurses were going out on strike on the side of the road for an hour....

Hobbes

is_that_so wrote:

I would have a lot of concern about any group who demands 10% and a 35 hour week.

I hate percentages. I really hate percentages.

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

As it stands now Nurses do their own work, clerical work and some Doctors work as well (where approved to), yet are expected to work for crap wages?

Government was able to offset this some years ago by basically farming out the work to immigrants but even those people will take so much crap for so long.

What is interesting is the government worked the average Nurse wage at €56,000. That is an average, considering most nurses are poorly paid I'd very much like to see the spread of the wages.

But the one thing to realise in this is that most of the time demands are not what they actually want. Anyone who goes into a negotiation with a fixed demand is not going to get anything. Better to ask for more then you want and you can compromise later.

ExoduS 18.11

FlutterinBantam wrote:

His occupation has nothing got to do with it.

He is spot on in my opinion.

Your of the opinion that nurses are Money Grabbing Bastards..? Glad to see the discussion has turned into derogatory bull**** in record time. My mother has been working as a nurse for 35 years, and let me tell you, she has done far more hours than 35 a week. At the moment she is doing only what she is paid to do. For example she is a Psychiatric nurse, so she doesnt answer the phones or do the office work that a secretary should be employed to do. She is regularily switched from hostel to hospital (which she has been threatened with knifes needles and what not 4 times during a ten year period) due to lack of security in these places. So frankly i can imagine why she is a tiny bit pissed off at the moment. And FlutterinBantam look at me i can put irrelevant words in bold too

PeakOutput

Hobbes wrote:

I hate percentages. I really hate percentages.

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

.

when you count the reduction in working hours it is alot more than a 10% increase its closer to 25% on their hourly wage. couple this with the drop in service the average punter will be getting for their money and it quickly turns into an unreasonable request at this time

K-9

Hobbes wrote:

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

What, Nurses are on the average industrial wage not the minimum wage.

Hobbes wrote:

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

Yeah, the majority don't work 39 hour weeks.

K-9

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

My mother has been working as a nurse for 35 years, and let me tell you, she has done far more hours than 35 a week. At the moment she is doing only what she is paid to do. For example she is a Psychiatric nurse, so she doesnt answer the phones or do the office work that a secretary should be employed to do. She is regularily switched from hostel to hospital (which she has been threatened with knifes needles and what not 4 times during a ten year period) due to lack of security in these places. So frankly i can imagine why she is a tiny bit pissed off at the moment. And FlutterinBantam look at me i can put irrelevant words in bold too

Actually, I think the PNA have done their members a disservice by going with the INO on the demands.

Pschy. Nursing is a dangerous job but I think they are paid more than General Nurses to compensate. But off course, there is the argument that if you didn't realise working in the Pschy. sector wasn't going to be dangerous well then you shouldn't really be there.

Also, I'm sure she got paid extra for doing more than 35 hours.

Also, I've heard Pschy. nurses laughing about going on training days to hotels and getting paid for them. Free lunches as well.

Judt

ucd_guy wrote:

From RTE News:



Yeah, because of all the people going around having unnecessary and unessential surgeries. Fools! What are those cancer patients thinking?

In fairness can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if a friend or relative had an operation delayed in Vincent's or Tipperary because the nurses were going out on strike on the side of the road for an hour....

How would you suggest nurses put their point across when other means fail, pray tell?

K-9

Judt wrote:

How would you suggest nurses put their point across when other means fail, pray tell?

In fairness, other means have failed in their opinion.

Pay agreements, benchmarking etc. that other unions have signed up to.

ExoduS 18.11

Seanies32 wrote:

Actually, I think the PNA have done their members a disservice by going with the INO on the demands.

Pschy. Nursing is a dangerous job but I think they are paid more than General Nurses to compensate. But off course, there is the argument that if you didn't realise working in the Pschy. sector wasn't going to be dangerous well then you shouldn't really be there.

Also, I'm sure she got paid extra for doing more than 35 hours.

Also, I've heard Pschy. nurses laughing about going on training days to hotels and getting paid for them. Free lunches as well.

Well in my opinion everyone has the right to safe enviroment to live and work, standards which are not meant to be kept by the employees, but the employer. Yes but the argument of nurses "skiving" off on 35 hours a week is ridiculous! Well if training days could be held in the hospital , i.e. proper facilities were in place, then im sure hotels could be cut from the equation. Free lunches? even nurses have to eat too

FlutterinBantam

Nurses are losing the PR battle hands down. yesterdays papers sowed it into them and imo rightly so.

Doran had led them up a cul-de-sac and hopefully Harney and Ahearn will have the balls to shout stop before the Public service pay bill bankrupts the country.

they have my vote if the stand up to greed and selfishness.

ucd_guy

Judt wrote:

How would you suggest nurses put their point across when other means fail, pray tell?

I agree a strike is the next step but think it shouldn't affect theatre, A&E, ICU and other essential areas.

hobbes wrote:

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

As it stands now Nurses do their own work, clerical work and some Doctors work as well (where approved to), yet are expected to work for crap wages?

35 hour working week is grand. Let them off, why not. 10% pay hike seems a bit much, but whatever. The two of them together is a bit Irish though.

And as for the whole bull**** of not answering phones, this is the most annoying crap of all. Phones are an essential tool for doing a job. Doctors do clerical work, pharmacists, physios, radiographers - even the cleaners have to fill out a form here and there for ****s sake. As it is the nurses are refusing to answer any phones, except for critical matters directly related to patient care, which begs the question, how do they know if it's a critical phone call or not? What'd happen if a doctor refused to use pens and papers because they aren't covered in their job description?!

(There's a big problem with this mentality in the health service in my opinion - people refusing to do tasks like wheel a patient down the hall or pick a bloody tissue up off the floor because of the old mantra of "it's not my job". But that's a whole other issue.)

K-9

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

Well in my opinion everyone has the right to safe enviroment to live and work, standards which are not meant to be kept by the employees, but the employer. Yes but the argument of nurses "skiving" off on 35 hours a week is ridiculous! Well if training days could be held in the hospital , i.e. proper facilities were in place, then im sure hotels could be cut from the equation. Free lunches? even nurses have to eat too

But how can you guarentee employees safety in a high security, lock down Pyschiatric ward. Bye it's nature it isn't safe. They are dealing with dangerous people, often pyschotic or people on suicide watch. Again, if you don't think you aren't going to come across these type of people in your job/training as a Pyschiatric Nurse well then you are in the wrong job. What next, we have to guarentee Guards/Prison wards safety.

On the training I didn't say it was for 35 hours. Whether you hold them in hotels or Hospitals doesn't really stop some nurses laughing about how a training day is so cushy.

ucd_guy

Seanies32 wrote:

Also, I've heard Pschy. nurses laughing about going on training days to hotels and getting paid for them. Free lunches as well.

Nothing wrong with that - everyone I know is in good form if they get a cushy training day!

SimpleSam06

Judt wrote:

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

Absoloutely. Private sector wages should be increased to match the wages of nurses, especially directly out of college, then increased by another 30% so that the equivalent in pension benefits can be earned by private sector workers. Also it should be made impossible to fire private sector workers, no matter how lazy or incompetent they are. That should even the scales.

Oh no wait, we can't do that, all employers would vacate Ireland so fast you wouldn't see them for dust, and those precious taxes that pay for those public service benefits and wages would dry up, and then the nurses would all leave because we can't pay them, and we'd have to import nurses from places like the Philippines, as we did in the 80s.

Hmmm...

K-9

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Absoloutely. Private sector wages should be increased to match the wages of nurses, especially directly out of college, then increased by another 30% so that the equivalent in pension benefits can be earned by private sector workers. Also it should be made impossible to fire private sector workers, no matter how lazy or incompetent they are. That should even the scales.

Oh no wait, we can't do that, all employers would vacate Ireland so fast you wouldn't see them for dust, and those precious taxes that pay for those public service benefits and wages would dry up, and then the nurses would all leave because we can't pay them, and we'd have to import nurses from places like the Philippines, as we did in the 80s.

Hmmm...

Couldn't have put it better myself

There seems to be no grasp of economic realites with public sector pay and nurses demands.

The Public sector is paid on average 43% more than the private sector. Lets pay the nurses more to increase that difference.

That seems to suggest that public sector pay isn't the issue here. Give Nurses there 35 hour week and 10% increase. Then wait for all those other public sector unions to say, wait a minute we're undervalued and underpaid to. We want 10% as well.

Interesting link on public sector pay:

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10006397.shtml

These suggests that the last thing we should be considering is increasing some public sector pay rates but actually reforming some of the overpaid workers first and then considering wage increases.

41% of the Public sector pay bill is on health already. What do we think maybe 45 or 50% is fair. You are talking those sort of figures if the Nurses get their demands and we have to employ something like 4,000 extra nurses to cover the loss in job hours.

If the nurses get their demands, the next thing from the INO will be, we need more nurses to cover our shorter week and extra responsibilities and work practices that we agreed to.

FlutterinBantam

Excellent post there Seanies...all points covered.

Give in to this and as sure as eggs is eggs Doran will be on with the never ending mantra of his,more this ,more that, never a Maxi mentch about actually producing more productivity from the nurses,reducing absenteeism,weeding out the malingerers and generally putting the Health sector on a sound efficient footing.

thebitterpill

Hobbes wrote:

I hate percentages. I really hate percentages.

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

Right. Everyone wants more money. Have yet to meet someone who wants their pay reduced rather than increased. The real question is, are there salaries so severely dire and out of sync with the rest of the Irish population that it justifies a strike?

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

Sure it's reasonable. But 39 hours a week is not a crippling stint by any means. If you really want to worry about working hours then maybe you should consider that many junior doctors are doing in excess of 100 hours per week often with little rest. Now that is a critically dangerous situation that MIGHT justify a strike. BUt going from 39 to 35 hours is more of a want, that while reasonable, cannot be used to justify a strike.

As it stands now Nurses do their own work, clerical work and some Doctors work as well (where approved to), yet are expected to work for crap wages?

Nurses are not exclusive in this regard. Junior doctors for example do the work of a phlebotomist, sometimes the work of nurses, the work of porters as well as clerical work in addition to their own duties as trained medical doctors. It's a sucky situation and needs to be fixed all around, but how is their wage 'crap?' That part is demonstrably false. 55k average a year is not crap by any means. (junior doctors have the same basic pay as that of nurses)

What is nursing after all? The word itself implies to me to provide aid to those who are ill and to 'nurse,' them back to health. I would say that providing a communication link between a sick individual and their family would be a vital part of that process. Maybe the definitions need to be established more clearly, but they aren't as blurred as some might think.

What is interesting is the government worked the average Nurse wage at €56,000. That is an average, considering most nurses are poorly paid I'd very much like to see the spread of the wages.

How do you knowthat most nurses are poorly paid? From what I've seen, most nurses' basic pay is around the same as th basic pay of non-consultant doctors with similar experience. I'd say the pay even scales to the top level, with senior most nurses being paid around 120-150k per year, which again is the same basic pay as a consultant.

But the one thing to realise in this is that most of the time demands are not what they actually want. Anyone who goes into a negotiation with a fixed demand is not going to get anything. Better to ask for more then you want and you can compromise later.

We can't read there minds and debate about what they might be thinking they really want. All we can see is the demands they make and judge them according to the current situation.

arybvtcw0eolkf

PeakOutput wrote:

no because apparentyl they do get paid less than the unqualified health care assistants that they work beside which is not fair imo thats why i think they should get the money

shorter week.....its laughable

Is that so?.


Well its pretty much the same the Guards and the Army.

I'm a member of the Defence Forces and sometimes have to work alongside civilian's in the army who are getting paid more than me, without the hassle's of 24hr duties, oversea's service, exercises etc etc etc... The Guard's operate with pretty much the same BS where some guards get paid more for working less etc... But to get to the point I'm going to make..

If the Defence Forces & the Police are considered essential services, and the nurse's paint themselves in the same light, then they (the nurse's) like the Army & Guards shouldn't be allowed to strike.

Simple as!. Legally I'm not allowed to strike because I'm considered to provide an essential service to the state.

Oh, and 35hr week and the money the nurse's are earning!. Wouldn't that be a nice one for us all?.

thebitterpill

Well a reduction of 4 hours in their work week with even the same wage as now is already more than a 10% increase in their wages, and that's in addition to whatever benchmarking throws out.

tinner777

Seanies32 wrote:

Actually, I think the PNA have done their members a disservice by going with the INO on the demands.

Pschy. Nursing is a dangerous job but I think they are paid more than General Nurses to compensate. But off course, there is the argument that if you didn't realise working in the Pschy. sector wasn't going to be dangerous well then you shouldn't really be there.

Also, I'm sure she got paid extra for doing more than 35 hours.

Also, I've heard Pschy. nurses laughing about going on training days to hotels and getting paid for them. Free lunches as well.

your having a laugh the only training days most psych nurses in cork get are on their days off, no pay and the joke that is time due in return, and i doubt a couple of stale sandwiches should be a reason against a pay rise!!!

ExoduS 18.11

ucd_guy wrote:

And as for the whole bull**** of not answering phones, this is the most annoying crap of all. Phones are an essential tool for doing a job. Doctors do clerical work, pharmacists, physios, radiographers - even the cleaners have to fill out a form here and there for ****s sake. As it is the nurses are refusing to answer any phones, except for critical matters directly related to patient care, which begs the question, how do they know if it's a critical phone call or not? What'd happen if a doctor refused to use pens and papers because they aren't covered in their job description?!

Well frankly, if its a work to rule, they have to not answer the phones to let the point of the whole thing get through. They have to not do something to do something, (thats makes sense right ?? ). Not that they dont answer the phones anyways before this industrial action? A ward clark is meant to be responsible for answering the phones and other such work.

FlutterinBantam wrote:

they have my vote if the stand up to greed and selfishness.

Heil FlutterinBantam!! *duckmarches*

ucd_guy wrote:

(There's a big problem with this mentality in the health service in my opinion - people refusing to do tasks like wheel a patient down the hall or pick a bloody tissue up off the floor because of the old mantra of "it's not my job". But that's a whole other issue.)

I agree with this, but dont only tie it to the health service, in fact its fair to say this can be applied to nearly all areas of work in this country. Provided different examples are used. i.e shop worker refusing to pick up a paper off the floor, as it is the janitors job.

K-9

tinner777 wrote:

your having a laugh the only training days most psych nurses in cork get are on their days off, no pay and the joke that is time due in return, and i doubt a couple of stale sandwiches should be a reason against a pay rise!!!

Well you should get on to your union then.:)

They must be treated better in Donegal.

thebitterpill wrote:

Well a reduction of 4 hours in their work week with even the same wage as now is already more than a 10% increase in their wages, and that's in addition to whatever benchmarking throws out.

Same wage for a shorter wage wouldn't be good enough. They need 10% extra as well. Though probably for the nurses that work less than 39 hours. The Unions have to give them something to.

Doctors are not allowed to strike in public hospitals, why should nurses?

Why should they get 10% wage increase without mentioning the generous above inflation pay increase in benchmarking. And without any linking to increased productivity?

Fighting Irish

I say give them they're 10% rise and have them keep their 39 hour week.

Isn't this like the teacher strike where teachers were not getting paid for lunch hours etc

Fighting Irish

Anyone know how much nurses start on?

PeakOutput

Fighting Irish wrote:

Anyone know how much nurses start on?

around 30-32k

SimpleSam06

Fighting Irish wrote:

Anyone know how much nurses start on?

Jesus Christ man read the discussion. Third person to ask this since I posted the exact wage. It just occurred to me, the nurses can keep working their current 39 hour week with no changes, business as usual, except they get paid overtime for the last four hours.

Plus a 10% pay rise!

PeakOutput

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Jesus Christ man read the discussion. Third person to ask this since I posted the exact wage. It just occurred to me, the nurses can keep working their current 39 hour week with no changes, business as usual, except they get paid overtime for the last four hours.

Plus a 10% pay rise!

if they agree to this it kinda flies in the face that there claim is anything other than money driven