Fixed charge offences

kieran0426

If one was to recieve a fixed charge notice for a motoring offence and the address were the alleged offence was not only misspelt but infact did not even exist would that person be legally intitled to challenge same in court.

morbo

You will not win. All they have to show is that the fine was intended for you. The fact that the address was mistakenly written is just a clerical error.

kieran0426

How can an alleged offence take place in a imaginary place.

padser

You are of course correct, you can challenge it and have the the name of the place correctly identified and spelt.


Incidently I am mistified at how a someone could 'misspell' and imaginery place. Does the imaginery place have a 'correct' spelling?

timmywex

you can challenge anything but you might not win.......or pronably wont

Victor

kieran0426 wrote:

If one was to recieve a fixed charge notice for a motoring offence and the address were the alleged offence was not only misspelt but infact did not even exist would that person be legally intitled to challenge same in court.

Well first you should have to tell the Garda that you aren't accepting the fixed charge notice. If it ends up in court, you just might find a judge willing to have the summons corrected.

Jo King

Have a look at order 38 of the District Court Rules:
(1) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) hereof, in cases of summary jurisdiction no variance between the complaint and the evidence adduced in support thereof, as to the time at which the offence or cause of complaint is stated to have been committed or to have arisen, shall be deemed material, provided that such information or complaint was in fact made within the time limited by law for making the same; nor shall any variance between the complaint and the evidence adduced in support thereof, as to the place in which the offence or cause of complaint is stated to have been committed or to have arisen, be deemed material, provided that the said offence or cause of complaint was committed or arose within the jurisdiction of the Judge by whom the case is being heard, or that, the accused resides or in the case of an offence was arrested within such jurisdiction. In any such case the Court may amend the summons, warrant or other document by which the proceedings were originated and proceed to hear and determine the matter.

[Defects]
(2) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (3) hereof, no objection shall be taken or allowed on the ground of a defect in substance or in form or an omission in the summons, warrant or other document by which the proceedings were originated, or of any variance between any such document and the evidence adduced on the part of the prosecutor at the hearing of the case in summary proceedings or at the examination of the witnesses during the preliminary examination of an indictable offence, but the Court may amend any such summons, warrant or other document, or proceed in the matter as though no such defect, omission or variance had existed.

[Court's discretion]
(3) Provided, however, that if in the opinion of the Court the variance, defect or omission is one which had misled or prejudiced the accused or which might affect the merits of the case, it may refuse to make any such amendment and may dismiss the complaint either without prejudice to its being again made, or on the merits, as the Court thinks fit; or if it makes such amendment, it may upon such terms as it thinks fit adjourn the proceedings to any future day at the same or at any other place.

rossbeag

The report of the Garda in court that you committed whatever offence is what counts, location details aren't all that vital if they dont actually affect the alleged offence itself. The Guard could always issue an amended notice with correct details after cancelling the original if you complain in time. Very little chance that the judge will rule against say speeding or whatever offence just because the name place is wrong.

Our man in Havana

If the location of a offence is wrong and the garda gives the same wrong location as his evidence then the case is fatally flawed.

rossbeag

May well be flawed but judge could wonder why the defendant did not bring this to the Garda's attention six months plus earlier. If that had happened the Garda could have simply reissued a new one with correct location before summons time. Judge may not be too pleased it came to court. Its a gamble that may cost you more:eek:

Our man in Havana

What could he judge do? Nothing except dismiss the case. It is the states job to build a case against you ie the burden of proof is on them, you are not obliged to assist them. If the state can't be bothered to do the paperwork correctly, that is not the defendants problem.

rossbeag

"State not bothered to get the paperwork right"! Don't think many judges share your opinion:D In reality the Garda/judge are the law and the defendant has an uphill battle:cool: To suggest otherwise to someone with a summons to answer is simply unfair.

Our man in Havana

Why? I am sure the legal eagles in here would argee with my opinion.

johnnyskeleton

Judges generally don't like laziness or incompetence, and they tolerate it no more from a garda than they do from an accused. I would possibly go as far as to say that many treat Gardai a lot worse than the accused when their papers are not in order, because Gardai should be on top of these things.

445279.ie

Bond-007 wrote:

Why? I am sure the legal eagles in here would argee with my opinion.

yeah but a judge might not. All the Garda has to do is make an application to amend the summons and the defendant has no say in the matter

yayamark

from experience i've seen some judjes go with the defendant and some judges go eith the state.
it depends on the judge and the extent of the error

hope that helps

Our man in Havana

Not after he has read the wrong information into the record as his evidence. I have loads of experience from prosecuting cases in the district courts.

yayamark

Bond-007 wrote:

Not after he has read the wrong information into the record as his evidence. I have loads of experience from prosecuting cases in the district courts.

i see what ur saying but the judge still has a decision whether to take the error into account