Dangerous Driving

Keith C

randomer wrote:

Can you define "slow drivers" for me?

I sometimes drive slowly, but I do not understand how I "make people take changes" and "cause crashes".

For example, if I am driving on a motorway I sometimes drive at between 75km/h and 100km/h. I drive in the left lane. How does this cause a problem?

Why would you drive 75km/h when the speed limit is 120km/h on a motorway? Granted if theres traffice in front of you, but if you had a clear road in front of you, you would drive at half the maximum speed limit???

Keith C

pclancy wrote:

In reference to the overconfidence thing causing so many deaths...

Proper training is needed for events that you cannot plan for to happen but if you've experianced them before can have a much better chance of dealing with.

For example, You could go a whole year or more after starting driving before having to do an emergency stop in rain/fog, driving in snow or ice, proper overtaking technique, having cars pullout in front of you, knowing what to do when you car starts to skid....all these things should be taught by instruction or some kind of simulation system, you can never know how to deal with these things until it happens and it seems thats why there are so many deaths!

Pilots train hard for several events that they will probably never enounter but when it does, they are able to properly handle then (eg engine failures, fire, birdstrikes etc). Im not saying every driver should be made sit in a simulator for hours every six months but surely there could be training brought into the driving instruction curriculam, it could be taught in schools or even some government/AA/ISM/ issued guidlines on what to do?

It seems a little more work to make people better drivers would save so many lives....

What your suggesting would involve using a test track and hiring profesional instructers. The cost would be massive & the backlog would be even worse then current driving test waits.
Nice idea on paper but impossible to impliment. a driving lesson is what €30?? add this in & your looking at €100 easily. back to the drawing board

seamus

Keith C wrote:

Why would you drive 75km/h when the speed limit is 120km/h on a motorway? Granted if theres traffice in front of you, but if you had a clear road in front of you, you would drive at half the maximum speed limit???

Because he can?
Although it's not illegal, I personally believe that the above mentioned circumstances would show a massive disregard for other road users, and to be poor roadcraft in general.
My reason being that if you are unable/unhappy to drive in accordance with the prevailing traffic and conditions, then you avoid them. That is of course unless all other options are unreasonable - you wouldn't pull a trailer on a motorway at 30km/h, but you wouldn't have an option if the only road available to you has a 100km/h limit.

hermit

Keith C wrote:

Why would you drive 75km/h when the speed limit is 120km/h on a motorway? Granted if theres traffice in front of you, but if you had a clear road in front of you, you would drive at half the maximum speed limit???

Half the maximum speed is 60km/h in 120 zone not 75.

This is like saying everyone should run around rather than walk just because we are able to run. Ridiculous.

Believe me when conditions prevail I usually drive at close to the speed limit. But everyone must take into account other issues not just road/weather conditions. i.e. personal circumstances. For example, I was driving on a stretch of the N2 awhile ago at night - the limit on this particular stretch is 120km/h - i stayed in and around 90km/h - I had spent the day in work (starting at 7.am then went to college and I was wrecked - so given those circumstances I didn't feel comfortable doing 120Km/h.

Also, lets not forget that now, motorways are not built just solely because you can do higher than usual speed and you can get where you are going quicker (in theory), they also represent direct routes that save time - not just that you can go faster.

unkel

hermit wrote:

This is like saying everyone should run around rather than walk just because we are able to run. Ridiculous

Or it is like saying everyone should walk rather than crawl using their left knee and right elbow only

hermit

unkel wrote:

Or it is like saying everyone should walk rather than crawl using their left knee and right elbow only

Ha ha if you say so - i'll try it out and let u know how i get on

pclancy

No not a test track, how about something PC based? We allready have trucks and test centres fitted with the Driver theory test PCs, why not a similar setup with PC based driving simulators to give people a chance to learn how to cope with difficult conditions or unexpected situations, how to control a skid, how to scan for hazards etc?

It wouldnt cost much compared to the money saved that is spent on insurance, AandE and emergency services that come out of every accident? The government has money to blow on plenty of schemes every year that dont save lives why not throw a few million at something that would save lives?

How about this for an example of a simple system....

http://www.driverinteractive.com/virtual_trainer.shtml

peasant

You can not learn to drive / handle difficult driving situations on a PC.
On a multi-million simulator maybe, but not on a PC.

All the feedback you get through your arse-meter for example is very important for making the right decisions.

Your behind will tell you much quicker if your car is slipping than your eyes ...you cannot simulate that on a PC.

pclancy

Okay but you cannot argue that at least some experiance, even if it is PC based sitting on your arse watching a screen and using a sim is better then none at all?

People dont know what to expect, they dont know how to handle things that they've never experianced or have been trained for, why not give them some kind of training by use of something like that?

I blame a huge amount of the deaths on our road at the crap training drivers get in Ireland. It shoudl at least be taught in some fashion in schools. People die because theyre inexperianced and dont know what they're doing or are going to fast or drunk/drugged up.

peasant

Basic driver training should be improved a lot.

Trained and tested instructors in dual control cars spring to mind.

Advanced driver training is a bit of a double edged sword, tbh. I remember one county in Germany with an above average accident rate offerd free advanced driver training to young drivers.
The end result was that about 50% of the participants drove safer afterwards, the other 50% used their newly acquired "skills" to drive even faster and now waaay over their capabilities instead of just right on the edge :eek:

pclancy

Yeah overconfidence is a big problem allright. Its just frustrating the way so many people die for nothing.

Altreab

GreeBo wrote:

or driving a modifed car due to a disability and they are not comfortable driving at 80kph on a backroad?

The drivers of cars modified due to their disabilities that i know are VERY comfortable at 80kph on backroads

[/QUOTE]Do we even have roads with 100kph that are only 1 lane in both directions and dont have overtaking sections? i.e 2 and 1 roads?[/QUOTE]

N59 From Galway to Clifden for one

randomer

seamus wrote:

Because he can?
Although it's not illegal, I personally believe that the above mentioned circumstances would show a massive disregard for other road users, and to be poor roadcraft in general.
My reason being that if you are unable/unhappy to drive in accordance with the prevailing traffic and conditions, then you avoid them. That is of course unless all other options are unreasonable - you wouldn't pull a trailer on a motorway at 30km/h, but you wouldn't have an option if the only road available to you has a 100km/h limit.

How does driving at 80km/h on a motorway in the left lane show a "massive disregard for other road users"? I am not preventing someone passing me.

If you are talking about someone driving in the overtaking lane at this speed when the left lane is clear then I would agree with you.

What speed would you pull a trailer on a motorway?

Altreab

randomer wrote:

How does driving at 80km/h on a motorway in the left lane show a "massive disregard for other road users"? I am not preventing someone passing me.

If you are talking about someone driving in the overtaking lane at this speed when the left lane is clear then I would agree with you.

What speed would you pull a trailer on a motorway?

I think the poster who talked about "slow drivers" was not talking about motorway or dual carriage way driving but more the 2 lane roads where a single driver driving at a speed much slower than the road would safely allow can easily cause a tail back of traffic numbering scores of cars.
It is a lack of consideration for others that causes the frustration in the drivers following behind.
In the USA isnt it a traffic offence to not let following traffic by when you have 7 or more cars behind you?

jmayo

>> In the USA isnt it a traffic offence to not let following traffic by when you have 7 or more cars behind you?
Did not know that ??

If you brought that law in here half the country would be fined and I not talking about just older people either.
This issue would not be an issue if the government had gotten off it's ass and actually put passing lanes in every few kms on primary routes.
Look at Eurpoen countries, Australi, New Zealand etc.
Later these could be expanded into dual carraiageways depending on location.
The only places there are passing lanes is on hill climbs but of course the Irish drivers all stay in the overtaking lanes since they believe the left lane is only for tractors and trucks.

legs11

slow drivers are a pain in the a**
on any given day on our rural roads (ie most of ireland) it can be guranteed there are stupid ignorant drivers holding up several cars troddling along at 40 mph......
who refuse to pull over at all. and some of these tossers flash at you when you pass them out.

from experience most of these cars are hyundais, fords,daewoos or cars like that.

no one can deny this , it happens and i bet its also a factor in road accidents. having to take risky manouvers to pass out said drivers.

i was driving one day in the sticks and saw a car ahead, i nearly drove into it when i approached it, it was doing about 15mph, no kidding.

ZiabR

legs11 wrote:

slow drivers are a pain in the a**
on any given day on our rural roads (ie most of ireland) it can be guranteed there are stupid ignorant drivers holding up several cars troddling along at 40 mph......
who refuse to pull over at all. and some of these tossers flash at you when you pass them out.

from experience most of these cars are hyundais, fords,daewoos or cars like that.

no one can deny this , it happens and i bet its also a factor in road accidents. having to take risky maneuvers to pass out said drivers.

i was driving one day in the sticks and saw a car ahead, i nearly drove into it when i approached it, it was doing about 15mph, no kidding.

You have a point in there buried among "over-reacting". I have said this earlier but as man people have stated, if you take the chance and are the cause of a crash, then you along are the reason for the crash and are at fault. I agree with you that "excessive slow" drivers do cause people to overtake and take chances, but NO one is forcing you to do it.

To say that all slow drivers are in Ford/Hyundi/Daewoo, thats complete bull. I drive a Mondeo and i am not an excessive slow driver. I agree with your root point but you are going about expressing it the complete wrong way.

Vikings

On my way in to work tonight leaving Lucan heading in the direction of strawberry beds I was behind a lunatic who decided he would take the first couple of blind corners with all 4 of his wheels completely on the wrong side of the road... I could not believe my eyes!

Needless to say I slowed right down...

Then when passing westmanstown gym i saw an almighty row of brake lights start to light up and thought here we go again, must have been a tail back of at least 15 cars all dawdling along at 20km an hour all the way to clonsilla.

Two cases of driving slow there, where I was driving slow it was purely out of fear for my own safety, where the other driver was driving slow... who knows but it was annoying.

And when drivers get annoyed they would like to overtake, leading to accidents. In an accident the overtaking driver would be of course at fault however there is still a certain amount of "blame" to be put on a driver who is driving well below the posted limit. This of course is assuming conditions allow

Andrewf20

legs11 wrote:

i was driving one day in the sticks and saw a car ahead, i nearly drove into it when i approached it, it was doing about 15mph, no kidding.

This is the single biggest annoyance I have when it comes to driving. Back road trundlers doing 30-35mph on a 50 mph backroad in good conditions, but with the twists, bends, humps in the road and oncoming traffic it can be almost impossible to pass sometimes.

DeBeere

Andrewf20 wrote:

This is the single biggest annoyance I have when it comes to driving. Back road trundlers doing 30-35mph on a 50 mph backroad in good conditions, but with the twists, bends, humps in the road and oncoming traffic it can be almost impossible to pass sometimes.

This could be the reason for their reduced speed...

Maybe they just can't drive as fast as you.

oleras

Wow, its been a while since i read so much crap in one thread.

Old peopls are to blame ! slow drivers are to blame ! people in fords ! why cant i drive at 50mph on a backroad with twists and humps and just about enough space for 2 cars to pass without some old person doing 35mph....

I would love to know how many of these slow old ford drivers are causing accidents at 3am at the weekend when some statistic wraps himself around a tree ?

gyppo

legs11 wrote:

no one can deny this , it happens and i bet its also a factor in road accidents. having to take risky manouvers to pass out said drivers.

What a load of s**t. Nobody has a gun to their head to take out a risky manouver to pass another driver. Put you life and the lives of others in danger so you can get to the next set of traffic lights/holdup/whatever before the slow driver?? :rolleyes:
If a driver takes a risk overtaking, and it goes wrong, then its the overtaking drivers fault - no-one elses.

pclancy

Nothing wrong with just crusing at 40-50 behind a "slow" driver until the next town or safe overtaking area. The world isnt going to end if you end up driving an extra 20 minutes to where you're going. What the hell is everyones rush? I drive at the speed limit most of the time but if someones going a bit slower im not going to risk my life or others just to get home slightly earlier!

NeMiSiS

"Nothing wrong with just crusing at 40-50 behind a "slow" driver until the next town or safe overtaking area. The world isnt going to end if you end up driving an extra 20 minutes to where you're going. What the hell is everyones rush? I drive at the speed limit most of the time but if someones going a bit slower im not going to risk my life or others just to get home slightly earlier!"

That's all well and good, long as you leave sufficent room for another driver to overtake you, and then the driver which you will not overtake, which is very often not the case. You see conveys of cars doing 70 kmh or so, all up one another holes. There is no "rush", just people who wish to make.. faster progress.. within the legal limits, and conditions permitting..

TK

GreeBo

pclancy wrote:

Okay but you cannot argue that at least some experiance, even if it is PC based sitting on your arse watching a screen and using a sim is better then none at all?

How about we teach people to avoid skidding as much as possible?
Its a lot harder and much safer to skid at 50kph than it is as 120kph.


I think its funny that so many people are talking about driver over-confidence being the cause of accidents and yet so many have an issue driving at the speed limit because "I can drive faster than the limit becuase I am a good driver".

Does no one else find that a bit of a contradiction?

franksm

Anyone been in Phoenix Park the past few days ? Some of the roads are *covered* in tyre marks - wheelspinning and handbrake turns.

On Military Road (the windy one on the south part of the park), there's even two streaks leading up to a blind corner which drops off into a ravine... the tyre marks don't actually go over, so whoever it was had a close call.

Must be some scumbags racing there at night-time

Pherekydes

franksm wrote:

On Military Road (the windy one on the south part of the park), there's even two streaks leading up to a blind corner which drops off into a ravine... the tyre marks don't actually go over, so whoever it was had a close call.

Perhaps not:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1809571&issue_id=15488

patrickc

on 2 occasions over the weekend i was overtaking, in both cases a truck and a car in front of me, and both times I had started overtaking when the way was clear and the car's both pulled out in front of me one forcing me right into the opposite hard shoulder, (I won't give away the gender of the drivers!!:) ) but my god people do you know what your mirrors are for??

franksm

LIGHTNING wrote:

Well the phoenix park is used as a race track once a year, and from driving in one of these races I can tell you its the race cars that put all those marks on the roads.

Nope - these are fresh marks. There's a difference between racing-car marks, and the sort of stuff scumbags leave on the roads. These are on the backroads of the park too, not the main area where the races normally go

Pherekydes

franksm wrote:

Nope - these are fresh marks. There's a difference between racing-car marks, and the sort of stuff scumbags leave on the roads. These are on the backroads of the park too, not the main area where the races normally go

People who skid, crash and die are not all scumbags.