Licence Fee Increases - Shooters Quite Unhappy.

Sparks

Ah, okay Dvs, that's different. Yes - so long as we weren't demanding something that was unsafe - you'd be seeing me there.

Dvs

Sparks wrote:

Ah, okay Dvs, that's different. Yes - so long as we weren't demanding something that was unsafe - you'd be seeing me there.

Glad to hear it.

But, would you consider,
Game shooting,vermin shooting,
centrefire rifle shooting,centrefire pistol shooting,
or practical shooting disciplines,
that are presently taking place,
here in the Republic of Ireland to be unsafe

And therefore not something you would support?

Dvs.

Sparks

I've seen some examples of fullbore pistol shooting that I thought were very unsafe Dvs, but those were down to the instructors involved, not the sport itself. (And I've seen the same from some hunters, some target shooters, in fact there's often a bad apple in every barrel - that doesn't mean we need to start banning apples).

I haven't seen any shooting in Ireland so far where I thought it was so unsafe that that discipline would be something we'd be better off without. I've had concerns about PR images from some, but not safety.

Dvs

In that case Sparks,
If and when any protests take place,
in support of any of the aforementioned shooting sports,
I look forward to meeting you there.

Dvs.

Sparks

And back on topic (finally!), the NARGC's press release made it to page two of this morning's Irish Times...

sidneyreilly

Right so, when are we marching. It needs to be a weekday to be effective so most will have to arrange a day or half day off. How about, lets say Thursday 26th?

edit: Anyone know what the proceedure for this is? Notify authorities etc..?

Maybe this should be moved to its own thread?

silver haze

i recenly bought my first shotgun for €60, and got a bit of a surpise when the super told me to drop €25 over to the barracks.
i wasnt overly concerned until i read the thread about the increase in fees.
can anyone explain as to why its €25 for me but my brother and father only pay €7.
i hold a licence for a rifle but no other firearms, i am aware of limited and unlimited licences but am unsure of the differences between them and why i have an unlimited as opposed to a limited.
wwith this new change in fees it definately does not make economic sense for me to keep this gun.

Clare gunner

You mean more like a picket line?As no doubt we wont get more than maybe 200 people [being optimistic ]at such short notice.Also we need to get this message out to those who are non board readers,or Irish Times readers.Like maybe a advert in the ISD?? Who pays for that???[On that note,hence the reason I did the flyer for those who have not got computors,ISD,Irish Times etc.Drop a few into your local gunstore,as it does concern gun dealers as well.]
From where to where we marching?As it does help to inform the Gardai and not inconvience the general pouplation with traffic jams etc.
Who is going to be media spokesman or PRO, demo marshal,etc.Who,what when ,where do those of us from outside the capital meet up etc.how will the established shooting bodies take this?Wil theypermit their members or elected reps to attend?ETC ,ETC.
That and a few thousand other details need to be sorted out,before we go anywhere.:(
Indeed would second this onto a seperate thread.

sidneyreilly

No idea how we go about CG. Last time I marched in anything was so long ago I cant remember what it was!! However it can be done given some thought, are there any radical types who are experinced at marching that could give us a few pointers? I'm fed up doing nothing and grabbing my ankles all the time:mad: . The date in question was just thrown in to give an aimpoint by the way and has no real significance. No problem advertising this in the digest either. The farmers should surely be having a fit over this as well?

Vegeta

Ok I have a question regarding the issue of licenses

lets say you buy a gun in say May 2009, when does your 3 year license come up for renewal.

currently if you license a gun in May you'll have to pay the license again in August of that year.

flight93

Why not email and / or phone TDs ? there is an election very soon. It cant hurt.

Even if you just do it as just as an individual.

Bananaman

Remember that when the hammer fell in Britain - it took out all disciplines - olympic or not they were all equally worthless in the eyes of the powers that be.

When it comes to the governments view of legal holders of firearms of any form - I personally think there should be a united front.

To distinguish between Olympic sports and Non-Olympic sports is not helpful and will only lead to what DVS referred to as "Them and us".

From the Governments point of view there should be no distinction between a kid on a training license for a 20 bore shotgun, a girl with an air rifle in olympic competition and a guy with a .45 calibre pistol in IPSC competition - they are all competitors under the umbrella of shooting sports.

For this reason, while I agree with the sentiment of SPARKs press release and understand that it is the opinion of a specific group, I tend to agree with FLAGs assertions with respect to all shooting sports.

I understand that a group should only comment on the views of the group but there is also room for commenting based on your own opinions (look ma - we is all growed up now) and, where specified, what you "believe" the opinion of a group to be.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE......

I believe, everyone in the Republic or Ireland, who holds
a firearm license, regardless of affiliation, feels they are
being ripped off.

I think you could make a press release with that in it and not piss anyone off.

sidneyreilly

Think this is the first time i've started a thread as I normally shy away from that but this time I am really, REALLY piss*d off:mad:

The sneaky dirty nature in the way the powers have rear-ended us is beyond beleif.

Because of the nature of the sport we have tended to maintain low profiles, well no more! Time to come out of the shadows ladies and gentlemen.

I'm proposing a protest march as soon as is feasible with as many as possible, familly, friends anyone!

I have no idea how one organizes such a thing but I'm bloody well willing to learn and fast.

It'll doubtless mean an organizational nightmare but hell, what isnt. It will also mean a lot of people (myself included) having to take a day or half off work to descend on the capital.

Any takers?

Clare gunner

sidneyreilly wrote:

No idea how we go about CG. Last time I marched in anything was so long ago I cant remember what it was!! However it can be done given some thought, are there any radical types who are experinced at marching that could give us a few pointers? I'm fed up doing nothing and grabbing my ankles all the time:mad: . The date in question was just thrown in to give an aimpoint by the way and has no real significance. No problem advertising this in the digest either. The farmers should surely be having a fit over this as well?

Ok,first off you need a date that gives us all time to clear our diarys for the day and get properly organised. Would realistically say 3 months. We are going to need ; a marshal,PR/media contact,stewards ,Garda liasion etc etc.
Advertising,bussing in people to Dublin from all counties, a meeting up point a,jump off point,a route and especially who are we going to be demo ing outside of? Now,already I see problems;Who wants the job of organising and being held accountable,and is going to put their all into organising this???? Hands up!!!....Thought so!!Not many..As a matter of fact I think THIS is now where the shooting organisations of Ireland should be putting this idea up to their members and organising this,not individuals.Be intresting to see will they.
Personally,I dont think we are going to get thousands on the street about this,let alone hundreds knowing us and demoing about things :rolleyes:
So lets say we get a hundred people,methinks we would be better off showing up at two certain ministers clinics offices and or homes.A "Surge "demo is a much better way of getting the message across than a huge street march with very few people. The trick is to keep it polite,orderly,and have any media quieries directed to handled by ONE person.Of course this person must be non biased towards any aspect of shooting. There is plenty of other tactics that can be used,but it takes time,dedication and people willing to do this.
I still think a mass emailing and faxing of all political canditates is still the cheaper and quicker option at the moment.They cannot afford at the moment to have their email system and phone lines blocked with the same repititious messages.

Umiq88

Can we bring the guns along;)

Seriously though it is a bit of a disgrace at the prices they are proposing however i'm not sure if your going to get enough people to start any sort of a protest maybe there are better ways of approaching it.

Umiq88

Limited are only allowed shoot vermin not game and have 25 cartridge limit

The new laws coming in quite simply are insane.

Also if you hold 2 shotguns the first license costs 25 and the second is 6

Sparks

psittacosis wrote:

Can we bring the guns along

Better idea might be to show up wearing targets pinned to shirts...

flight93

Good idea Sparks!

civdef

200 people turn up for a "protest march" = no-hoper fringe noise-makers.

Sparks

Yeah, but you can say the same about 250,000 hippie peaceniks too civ.

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Better idea might be to show up wearing targets pinned to shirts...

How about some logos?Thinking of the old NRA slogan adapted to now?
"I am an Irish shooter,and I VOTE!" ?
Civs right.
200 of us on the street isnt enough. 2000 possibly be listend to,20,000 plus,getting places ,40k upwards,we have their attention.
100 each picketing outside dept of Finance and Justice,much better.
200 emailing and faxing all canditates,brilliant.

civdef

200 emailing and faxing all canditates,brilliant

Damn right.

Clare gunner

Got to say the Irish Councils Against Bloodsports website is a brilliant source of info on how to bother your TDs and Senators.:D

[The Art of War,live of your enemies provisions and equipment ]

For example phone your TD or Senator 01 6183000 calling within the Dublin area
1890337889 for TDs, 1890732623 for Senators,if you are calling outside the Dublin area.
Is a phone call too time consuming to defend shooting??
Dont know who your local TD or senator is? Their handy link to Irishgov.ie will tell you.
Looking for an idea to format a letter?Take their letter writing campain sample letter and adapt to shooting.

NOTE.Can somone format a 4 paragraph letter outlying our problems and post it here so we can use it as a template???

So thanks,Aideen, Philip &Co.You have been most helpful!!!:D

Should add,we would want to get somthing on paper and begin soon as the Dail rises in about 3 weeks for the election

Our man in Havana

Someone write a letter to the times and the indo.

Terrier

The Irish Independent today 11/04/07

GUN enthusiasts are up in arms over "exorbitant" licence-fee hikes and have threatened to take their grievance to the polling booths next month. They say the new fee structure, which includes increases of up to two-thirds for certain categories of licence, is a direct attack on their sport and a crude attempt by the Government to discourage new members.

Currently a typical shotgun licence costs €25 for one year. However under a new system which sees licences issued for three-year periods, hunters and target shooters will pay €115 - an increase of 53pc. A yearly licence for a rifle will rise from €38 to €170 for a three year licence - a hike of almost 50pc. Meanwhile a licence for a second shotgun will increase by a staggering 66pc.

Des Crofton, director of the National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC) which has 27,000 members and is also a Seanad nominating body, said the fees have already become an election issue.

"Unfortunately politicians and civil servants based in Dublin do not understand how important game shooting and the like is on a parish level in rural Ireland.

"The increases are perceived by shooting people as an open and naked attack on shooting and its supporters and a pure Government rip-off.

"It's an extremely popular sport and growing in popularity all the time. This is nothing more than a crude attempt to discourage new members from joining," he added.

David Brennan, chairman of the Irish Gun Trade Association, warned the Government parties that people's anger will be reflected at the polling booths. He added that the country's 250,000 shooting and fieldsports enthusiasts are particularly aggrieved as there was no consultation with them before the addition of the new fees to the Finance Bill 2007.

Mr Crofton also slammed the new training licence fee saying it was a "tax on education". Under the new proposals learners would have to fork out €115 for a shotgun licence and €170 for a rifle licence without being able to own a firearm.

Other new charges include €1,000 for a target shooting club to be authorised and another €1,000 for a shooting range to be authorised. Mr Crofton said the fees were an attempt to strangle the sport by putting it out of the reach of ordinary rural people.

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thelurcher

I remember the local Garda telling me about the 3 year license ages ago - why is it a surprise to Crofton and co?????????
It was obviously a prime time for a price rise.

Why didn't Crofton chase the dept. on what was going to happen - no they couldn't do that it would hurt their pride too much - the horse has bolted now.

Those shooting organisations are rotten to the core - his name will be all over every article about this - as if he's doing something about it - that's a lot more beneficial to his ambitions and ego than hammering out a deal behind the scenes BEFORE the **** hits the fan :mad:

Come renewal time I'm going to offset the rise in the license fee by dropping my NARGC membership. I have more permission than my local gun club anyway!

Sparks

From today's Indo:

Gun fans all fired up over licence fee hikes

GUN enthusiasts are up in arms over "exorbitant" licence-fee hikes and have threatened to take their grievance to the polling booths next month.

They say the new fee structure, which includes increases of up to two-thirds for certain categories of licence, is a direct attack on their sport and a crude attempt by the Government to discourage new members.

Currently a typical shotgun licence costs €25 for one year. However under a new system which sees licences issued for three-year periods, hunters and target shooters will pay €115 - an increase of 53pc.

A yearly licence for a rifle will rise from €38 to €170 for a three year licence - a hike of almost 50pc. Meanwhile a licence for a second shotgun will increase by a staggering 66pc.

Des Crofton, director of the National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC) which has 27,000 members and is also a Seanad nominating body, said the fees have already become an election issue.

Attack

"Unfortunately politicians and civil servants based in Dublin do not understand how important game shooting and the like is on a parish level in rural Ireland.

"The increases are perceived by shooting people as an open and naked attack on shooting and its supporters and a pure Government rip-off.

"It's an extremely popular sport and growing in popularity all the time. This is nothing more than a crude attempt to discourage new members from joining," he added.

David Brennan, chairman of the Irish Gun Trade Association, warned the Government parties that people's anger will be reflected at the polling booths.

He added that the country's 250,000 shooting and fieldsports enthusiasts are particularly aggrieved as there was no consultation with them before the addition of the new fees to the Finance Bill 2007.

Mr Crofton also slammed the new training licence fee saying it was a "tax on education". Under the new proposals learners would have to fork out €115 for a shotgun licence and €170 for a rifle licence without being able to own a firearm.

Other new charges include €1,000 for a target shooting club to be authorised and another €1,000 for a shooting range to be authorised. Mr Crofton said the fees were an attempt to strangle the sport by putting it out of the reach of ordinary rural people.

Sparks

Bond-007 wrote:

Someone write a letter to the times and the indo.

No, not "someone" - do one yourself, and have others do letters as well.
The whole point of a grassroots movement is not to wait for someone else to do it, but to put pen to paper yourself.

civdef

Interesting time to choose an attack- particularly as it's totaly wrong headed. We all knew 3 yr licences were coming, but noone was told the fees were going top be increased so much.

stevoman

what is the protest against?