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History Research Topic

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    #32
    Haven't a Clue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Haven't a Clue


    I'm pretty sure the review doesn't count as part of the essay. Our teacher said it didn't anyway. Jesus, it better not, otherwords I'm about 150 over the limit and I've it handed up.


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    #33
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    Haven't a Clue wrote:
    I'm pretty sure the review doesn't count as part of the essay. Our teacher said it didn't anyway. Jesus, it better not, otherwords I'm about 150 over the limit and I've it handed up.
    I sure hope it doesn't.I mean its only 2% of the entire exam, but every little helps!!Why the **** is this info not easily available to us?They should have all this stuff up on the CAO website or something.It really is a pain in the ass.Can't imagine what a nightmare it would have been doing the project last year.


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    #34
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    The review is counted as part of the essay, but apparently last year they didn't seem to care if you went over the limit. It appears to be simply a loose guideline.


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    #35
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    The review is counted as part of the essay, but apparently last year they didn't seem to care if you went over the limit. It appears to be simply a loose guideline.
    Ah but last year was the first year for the exam.Nobody really knew how to approach the exam, so they were marked very easily (if I remember correctly there was a fall in the number of A1s earned, but a large rise in honour grades earned).I'm just worried that the review will be counted as part of the extended essay, making me well over the FINAL word limit (1650) and the project will be discounted, thus throwing away 20% of the marks.....Which would be absolutely devestating.


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    #36
    Haven't a Clue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Haven't a Clue


    Enemy Of Fate wrote:
    Ah but last year was the first year for the exam.Nobody really knew how to approach the exam, so they were marked very easily (if I remember correctly there was a fall in the number of A1s earned, but a large rise in honour grades earned).I'm just worried that the review will be counted as part of the extended essay, making me well over the FINAL word limit (1650) and the project will be discounted, thus throwing away 20% of the marks.....Which would be absolutely devestating.
    It'd mean certain failure for me. And a bullet in the head of my history teacher.


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    #37
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    Haven't a Clue wrote:
    It'd mean certain failure for me. And a bullet in the head of my history teacher.
    While it wouldn't mean certain failure for me (I mean 80% of the exam is for the written part, i'm sure I could at least scrap a pass from it) but yes my history teacher would certainly receive a few blows to the back of the head with a metal bar if that were the case.I've decided i'm going to go over the limit........But only just.I'll make my review as small as humanly possible, and lie about the word count and hope for the best.


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    #38
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    They won't just discount essays over 1500 words. Mine is c. 1650 and I'm happy with it.


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    #39
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    They won't just discount essays over 1500 words. Mine is c. 1650 and I'm happy with it.
    We'll we've actually been told that they'll accept essays that are up to 10% over the limit (so for honours that would be a REAL limit of 1650), but apparantly if its over that they don't count it at all.........which is why this damn review thing worries me greatly.


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    #40
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    We haven't been told that... In fact a girl in my class's one is like 1900 words and my teacher said that they mightn't be too hard on her if it was all very good and solid...

    I just checked my essay's length on Word and it's 1532 words without the review of research process. I should be OK it seems....


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    #41
    Selphie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭Selphie


    Mine's 1470 without the review. It was way above 1500 and my teacher told me it had to be underneath that. She also said that the review, which I haven't written yet, doesn't count as a part of the essay.
    Isn't it funny how different teachers say different things.


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    #42
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,226 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    What teachers say isn't worth a damn unless they know what they are talking about.

    If your teacher is involved in correcting, by all means listen to them, if not, then they are just some randomer who is guessing as to what counts.

    Same goes for any teacher who 'knows' what is likely to come up on the exam - no they do not 'know' unless they were involved in setting or drafting the exam, in which case they will get into a lot of trouble for giving out information.


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    #43
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    Selphie wrote:
    Isn't it funny how different teachers say different things.
    No.No it isn't.In fact in a situation like this its nowhere near funny.Its absolutely ****ing ridiculous and shows both a severe lack of knowledge about the exams and the course, and the incompetence of quite a large number of teachers.For instance my teacher never even mentioned the review part!!Not even once!!Shows how good she is.


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    #44
    Kurtosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    Now I did History last year, but I'm gonna try and remember things as best I can.

    First of all, my history teacher is a member of the History Teacher's Association of Ireland and quite an active one at that. Also, any time while we were doing the normal course and completing our research topics, if any of us had a problem or a question which she couldn't answer, she either brought it up at a HTAI meeting or phoned a contact she had in the exams commission and put the question to them.

    The review is most definitely part of the word count for the essay and the recommended word limit for it is 200-250 words. I took a look at mine just there, 206 words long. The way I structured it was recounting the process I went through in searching for sources, evaluating each source and actually writing the report with a sentence or two at the end of each paragraph commenting on the value of performing these tasks (e.g."I familiarised myself with the library system through carrying this out." or "I found my editing skills improved through having to identify which parts of my report to cut down")

    That actually leads onto the discussion of length of essay. The upper world limit is 1500 words, including the review. Now last year, there was never any mention of including a word count anywhere in out booklet. Unless that has changed the examiner will not know what your word count is exactly (they aren't going to waste time counting every single word). So depending on the size of your handwriting, you'll probably get away with about 10% over the limit as the examiner wouldn't be able to tell whether you're within the limit or not. Essays the examiner knows are over the word limit are not going to be just thrown away, however they will take this into account when marking you. I'm not sure of the terminology but 40% of the marks go for the overall impression of your report. Now if you're way over the word limit, this will show the examiner that you lack the editing skills to evaluate the information and cut out what is less worth while, and their overall impression will go down as such, as you are not exhibiting the skills of a good historian.

    Wow, sorry about that little (or not so little) blurb. I got an A1 in the exam last year by the by, can't say how much of that is due to the research topic or not though. A classmate of mine however did check his script and found out he actually received full marks for his research topic, so our teacher's guidance must have had some value! I'd say if you're still unsure, take a look at the marking scheme on the exams commission website to give some idea at what the examiner will give marks for etc.

    Hope this was of some help and best of luck.


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    #45
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    penguin88 wrote:
    Now last year, there was never any mention of including a word count anywhere in out booklet. Unless that has changed...
    It has :(

    There's a box on the front where you have to write the word count....


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    #46
    Kurtosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    Ah...that does make things trickier :p


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    #47
    Mushy
    Registered Users Posts: 21,388 ✭✭✭✭Mushy


    Could ya not just write down something thats between 1200-1500 words then in that box? Make it look like you counted, despite using MS word to do it for you.


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    #48
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    There is a box for word count- for the extended essay ONLY, not the review. Mine was sealed before Easter there.


    IT'S NOT INCLUDED IN THE WORD COUNT THIS YEAR.


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    #49
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    ^The review is part of the extended essay and yes it is included in the word count.

    Mine was c. 1800, I wrote 1700 on the cover of it and it was sealed today.


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    #50
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Mushy wrote:
    Could ya not just write down something thats between 1200-1500 words then in that box? Make it look like you counted, despite using MS word to do it for you.
    The examiner will have read loads of essays and will be able to tell approx how many words are in an essay.


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    #51
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    ^The review is part of the extended essay and yes it is included in the word count.

    Mine was c. 1800, I wrote 1700 on the cover of it and it was sealed today.


    We do it seperate actually, though I know you're allowed integrate it. But extended essay actually means- just the essay, and that's what we were told, that they only want the word count for the essay.


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    #52
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    I do it seperately too, but the word count is for both. If it wasn't then there'd be a seperate heading for the review. Extended Essay = Essay + Review whether it's integrated or not.


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    #53
    Steve01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭Steve01


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    ^The review is part of the extended essay and yes it is included in the word count.

    La la la can't hear you la la la la :rolleyes:


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    #54
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    We were told the word count is just for the essay, o_0


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    #55
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    The lack of definite information about this research project is absolutely astounding.Stupid Department of Education.


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    #56
    Kurtosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    Don't you mean State Examinations Commision? :p


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    #57
    Haven't a Clue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭Haven't a Clue


    penguin88 wrote:
    Don't you mean State Examinations Commision? :p
    They're all bastards really.

    :)


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    #58
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    Enemy Of Fate wrote:
    The lack of definite information about this research project is absolutely astounding.Stupid Department of Education.
    Don't worry, they won't mark you down this year due to word counts.


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    #59
    Enemy Of Fate
    Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Enemy Of Fate


    JC 2K3 wrote:
    Don't worry, they won't mark you down this year due to word counts.
    Lets hope not.Anyways !I've finally finished everything on the project, including the outline plan, the evaluation of sources and that ****ing research of review section.Took the last 2 and a half hours but I'm finally finished!!And i'm actually really pleased with it!!Hurrah!!All thats left now is to write it into the actual booklet, and then lie gratuitously about the word count. Assuming the research project is included in the word count (which no-one seems to be actually 100% sure on) its about 1750 words (and only leaves about half a page of space left in the entire booklet), but i'm going to say its only 1624........and hope they don't figure out that i'm lying.Still though i'm so glad I finally finished it..I feel like a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders.........but now I still have to go and finish my ****ing LCVP formal report.It never ends dammit.......

    *Sobs*
    ---


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