Is is a good idea to suppress evidence to the contrary?

nesf

Dragan wrote:

Aare,

one of the main arguments against the Weightloss forum at the time was once again the Medical issue.And it still is.

Everything is covered in fitness from healthy eating to excercising..... if that does not work for someone then we are looking at all sorts of endocrinal and medical problems and that is not what we deal with on message boards.

Exactly. That's pretty much what I was getting at above (though obliquely). It seems that reason doesn't work with you Aare, there are good reasons to restrict weight loss discussion purely to what's in the scope of the fitness forum. Dragan's and Daveirl's action seem to be in the best interests of the forum, which is not something that they should be criticised for.

Smellyirishman

The only problem I see is the "Medical freak" bit. If it is the case that Aare has a serious medical problem, then this could have been worded in a lighter tone. However, it's unclear that this is the case, as I can't see a post of what Aare has done previously (I did see one post about spending a least a year hopping from one fad diet to another, claiming to be doing the "right thing").

humbert

This has become nothing but a pestle for aare to vent deluded indignation. Other than the use of the word freak, and after reading this thread I can imagine anyone becoming exasperated trying to reason with aare, I think the reasons for locking the thread have been fully justified.

Dragan

With regard to use of the word freak, i meant it is in an abnormal phenomenon, anomaly, aberration kind of way, not in a monster kind of way.

As such, if thats what caused the offence then i do apologise, but no insult was intended.

aare

ecksor wrote:

Hang on, where exactly is the personal abuse that you're referring to? Link to the specific post(s).

According to several people I have shown the two links I already posted there should be sufficient personal abuse in those links alone to satisfy anybody. Those people included two clinical psychologists.

ecksor wrote:

Do you see why running that into one long sentence is unclear? )

No, and neither can anyone else I show it to, it is a run on sentence, but the meaning is clear to them.

ecksor wrote:

Do you accept that there's a reluctance to deal with anything that might be touching upon medical advice on the boards?

I believe there SHOULD be, but I do not accept that there is. How can I when the fitness board constantly holds forth, aggressively, with any quasi medical advice that suits their personal credo, and abuses in quasi medical terms with impunity whenever somebody challenges them?

To suggest that such behaviors are based on a "reluctance to touch medical advice" is proposterous.

To bully and attempt to indoctrinate people with serious weight problems into believing that any failure to lose weight through healthy eating and exercise is due to their own laziness or lack of willpower is incredibly dangerous (and grossly inaccurate) medical advice, but they sling it around every chance they get, even so.

Boston

Who are these people you are showing the posts to? You seem intent to read what you want into posts.

Talliesin

If aare arranges with an insurance company to underwrite all possible malpractice liability and pays for it (shop arround and it might be less than 6-figures) I will take up his cause and heavily lobby all the admins that his lipotrim fanboy ramblings be allowed up to and including abusing my knowledge of their phone numbers to do so.

In the meantime I can't help but wish he would STFU with the disingenious twisting of a straightforward moderator action.

Asok

I thought you people were supposed to be jolly

aare

Boston wrote:

Who are these people you are showing the posts to?

Do you seriously think I am going to give you the names of my personal friends on an internet bulletin board?

Perhaps you would like their phone numbers as well?

Mastercard numbers?

Amex?

Boston wrote:

You seem intent to read what you want into posts.

I should have thought it was pretty obvious that I have shown these threads to real people I know, trust and respect to doublecheck that I was NOT doing that, wouldn't you?

Talliesin wrote:

If aare arranges with an insurance company to underwrite all possible malpractice liability and pays for it (shop arround and it might be less than 6-figures) I will take up his cause and heavily lobby all the admins that his lipotrim fanboy ramblings be allowed up to and including abusing my knowledge of their phone numbers to do so.

And are you going to pay all possible malpractice liability for the poor kids with desperate weight problems who get constantly bludgeoned with the erroneous insistance that they are lazy, weak, liars simply because, through no fault of their own, the weight will not go away?

Talliesin wrote:

In the meantime I can't help but wish he would STFU with the disingenious twisting of a straightforward moderator action.

Well I stand corrected, I always assumed slightly better of boards than to see a moderator with a personal beef, provoking and abusing a poster and then closing a thread to be a "straightforward moderator action", but I am sure you know more about what is the acceptable norm around here than I do.

Incidentally, I am a woman, and, as far as I can recall, we know each other socially.

aare

Asok wrote:

I thought you people were supposed to be jolly

No, honeychile, I is the other kind of nigguh...the kind with SOUL.....

Boston

aare wrote:

Do you seriously think I am going to give you the names of my personal friends on an internet bulletin board?

Perhaps you would like their phone numbers as well?

Mastercard numbers?

Amex?


I should have thought it was pretty obvious that I have shown these threads to real people I know, trust and respect to doublecheck that I was NOT doing that, wouldn't you?

That there is perfectly resonable beahaviour. I often run my posts through my friends and ask "am I being a mad sob", to which they reasure assure me. Your posting style reminds me of someone. Are these people as highly strung as you?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Talliesin

aare wrote:

And are you going to pay all possible malpractice liability for the poor kids with desperate weight problems who get constantly bludgeoned with the erroneous insistance that they are lazy, weak, liars simply because, through no fault of their own, the weight will not go away?

We cannot be sued for malpractice for saying "go to a doctor" (that doctor might get it in the neck if they screw up, but that's not our problem). We can for acting like doctors. This is very simple.

Now, either we are talking about a general fitness regime (in which case the original statements hold) or we are talking about a medical issue (in which case come up with the malpractice liability insurance first).

aare wrote:

Well I stand corrected, I always assumed slightly better of boards than to see a moderator with a personal beef, provoking and abusing a poster and then closing a thread to be a "straightforward moderator action", but I am sure you know more about what is the acceptable norm around here than I do.

Doing something that can get this site sued is the ultimate in not acceptable around here.

aare wrote:

Incidentally, I am a woman

Damn, the one time I don't use gender-neutral pronouns in ages. Aw well.

aare wrote:

as far as I can recall, we know each other socially.

That makes me sadder that you expect us to publish medical advice. I certainly wouldn't ask anyone I know socially to condone such a risk being taken with anything they were involved with

aare

Boston wrote:

That there is perfectly resonable beahaviour. I often run my posts through my friends and ask "am I being a mad sob", to which they reasure assure me. Your posting style reminds me of someone. Are these people as highly strung as you?

They are, currently, people who cannot believe that I am still trying to reason with people who are so far detached from reason that they do not even suspect that there should be a red flag when an admin jumps up and *accuses* someone of accusing him of steroid use and advocacy (it's called "protests too much 101")...

...in fact I can't believe it myself...

Boston

But you did accuse him, you admitted you did. In fact you accused him again. jesus I feel a head ache coming on.

aare

Talliesin wrote:

We cannot be sued for malpractice for saying "go to a doctor" (that doctor might get it in the neck if they screw up, but that's not our problem). We can for acting like doctors. This is very simple.

Perhaps you should experiment with reading issues before commenting on them in future, because my problem is that they don't say "It's not your fault, you should probably see a Doctor"...

They say "You are lazy and weak willed, you should follow my diet, let me dictate your exercise routine because that is the ONLY way anybody ever loses weight".

That is simple, very cruel, abuse.

Talliesin wrote:

Now, either we are talking about a general fitness regime (in which case the original statements hold) or we are talking about a medical issue (in which case come up with the malpractice liability insurance first).
Doing something that can get this site sued is the ultimate in not acceptable around here.Damn, the one time I don't use gender-neutral pronouns in ages. Aw well.

That makes me sadder that you expect us to publish medical advice. I certainly wouldn't ask anyone I know socially to condone such a risk being taken with anything they were involved with

As I said, perhaps you should experiment in reading the issues to find out what they are, before attacking people over them in future.

aare

Boston wrote:

But you did accuse him, you admitted you did. In fact you accused him again. jesus I feel a head ache coming on.

However, I did not bring it up on this thread...he did...I'd actually forgotten all about it.

Personally, I would be more inclined to feel an headache coming on because people are more concerned about who accused who than they are about whether he is actually doing it...

In front of the cart is usually the most efficient place to put the horse.

Dragan

aare wrote:

They are, currently, people who cannot believe that I am still trying to reason with people who are so far detached from reason that they do not even suspect that there should be a red flag when an admin jumps up and *accuses* someone of accusing him of steroid use and advocacy (it's called "protests too much 101")...

...in fact I can't believe it myself...

Aare,

I am not accusing you of anything. I am reminding you that you basically tried to tear my name on the board to shred by implying everything i do and have acheived is due to anabolic steroids and then proceed to PM with your opinions about how i must have an eating disorder.

Don't get me wrong, in todays modern world i do eat abnormally. I eat a healthy balanced diet which seems to be far from the norm.

I repeat. I was not accusing you of anything. I was reminding you and informing others that you had done this.

Why inform them i hear you say? Because i think it offers a valuable insight into your posting style, which is to hinge on tiny fragments that you feel suit yourself and ignore anything which you don't like.

I'm actually delighted that this thread occured in the first place, as other mods, an Admin and random posters ( hi Boston, nice to meet you the other night actually even if it was very brief! ) seem to feel the same as i did. That you are fond of making moutains out of molehills.

I have given my reasons against the overt discussion of Lipotrim and it's because for people who really need it it's a medical issue, and for people who healthy diet and excercise does not work for it's also a medical issue. This is not a difficult concept.

Boston

aare wrote:

Personally, I would be more inclined to feel an headache coming on because people are more concerned about who accused who than they are about whether he is actually doing it...

You have fact Vs fiction issues. I suggest you see a doctor.

end line carriage return.

Ps nice meeting you to Dragan.

aare

For the benefit of those who felt the urge to comment before they felt the urge to familiarise themselves with what had actually happened.

Last year people were asking about Lipotrim so I posted my own, wholly positive experience with it up to that point.

So far, so good...

Shortly afterwards I developed some unpleasant side effects in that my hair started to fall out at 14 weeks, (which they do warn may happen). So, in the name of honestly and full information I returned to update what I had posted before with that fact, as well as the fact that for me, it had still been worth it to lose 4 stone that I could not lose in the 7 years since I gained it by any other means.

It was from that point that I was subjected to constant abuse. I was assured that I must be lying about how hard I had tried with no results, I was informed that I should have done certain things I had already tried and then accused of lying or "not doing them properly" when I tried to point out that I had already tried those things to no avail.

Given the reality that I was just being honest, the whole experience was absolutely soul destroying, even for me, who frankly has learned not to expect much better from boards.

Remember, I posted on the board to share information that people were requesting, NOT seeking advice at all.

I watched other, younger people, subjected to similar abuse and it horrified me.

Even so, I tried it half their way, with healthy eating and exercise for over 6 months...again, I did not lose a pound, so I went for the advice commonly given that a person cannot lose weight because they are undereating, and very carefully raised the nutritional and carbohydrate content of my diet...to discover that I was GAINING weight rapidly.

The fitness forum do not mind you posting about Lipotrim at all, they are quite happy to post endless quasi medical advice too...

What they refuse to tolerate is anybody daring to post anything that draws attention to the fact that they do not know everything and that their way is NOT going to work for everybody.

Dragan

Actually, I am particularly proud of the way that I "tore your name on the board to shred" by PM'ing my very genuine concern that you are sublimating a serious eating disorder into unhealthy fitness fanaticism, privately, without ever mentioning it to anyone else...

ALL THE WHILE KNOWING THAT ONE DAY YOU WOULD FINALLY LOSE CONTROL AND ANNOUNCE IT TO THE WORLD YOURSELF...after I kept it to myself no matter how much you provoked me...

Muh-huh-huh-huh...

Oh GROW UP and get real...

I caught you admitting and advocating steroid use on another discussion on fitness and remarked it...I don't know whether you ever really used the stuff (I hope to god not) or whether you were just trying to sound smart...

I cannot imagine that you would bring it up again without first getting somebody to go over the databases and edit out your exact quote, but my references to it should still be on the board I posted a link to requesting a Lipotrim forum...and if you have edited THOSE out it begs the question of exactly where you are accusing me of accusing you of this???

What do you expect me to do? Lie and deny catching you out like that - as a "strategy" to "win the game" perhaps? That's your style not mine.

Until you brought it up again I had forgotten about it, until you abused me and closed that thread so that I could not address what you had said about me, to be honest, I had also forgotten all about you.

But reminded, I am utterly horrified that anybody would allow you to moderate the fitness forum. Even before you reminded me of the steroid question, You are just too fond of head games and personal abuse for that.

...and there is plenty of both in the two threads I already posted a link to.

ecksor

aare wrote:

I caught you admitting and advocating steroid use on another discussion on fitness and remarked it...I don't know whether you ever really used the stuff (I hope to god not) or whether you were just trying to sound smart...

Post the URL.

I cannot imagine that you would bring it up again without first getting somebody to go over the databases and edit out your exact quote, but my references to it should still be on the board I posted a link to requesting a Lipotrim forum...and if you have edited THOSE out it begs the question of exactly where you are accusing me of accusing you of this???

Ok, post that URL then.

Blowfish

aare wrote:

If that is what you believe, DaveIrl, then why are people being berated, mocked, bullied and abused instead of being told that you think they should seek medical advice?

And don't you think it might be more healthy if, in future, the mocking bullying and abusing were abandoned in favor of polite suggestions that they seek medical advice? As that is what you believe.

Ok, here's from one of the threads you linked to.

Dragan wrote:

Not really, despite what some people are posting human biology is human biology for the most part and 99% of the time they same rules apply to all of us.

If anyone does have any food intolerances of issues of a medical nature they should be talking to there doctor.

Seems pretty clearcut to me.

aare wrote:

I caught you admitting and advocating steroid use on another discussion on fitness and remarked it...I don't know whether you ever really used the stuff (I hope to god not) or whether you were just trying to sound smart...

Since you haven't linked to the post you claim was Dragan admitting and advocating steroid use, I will.

Dragan wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2054999684
I find that pretty funny to be honest. All the people they use in the show were idiots....Michalek was well know for going above and beyond in her use of steroids...what he was doing was not sane.

I also find it funny that anabolic compounds that can be prescribed to the terminally ill and effort to cure them can cause instant cancer/heart attacks in the healthy.

I suggest some study into the actually effect of anabolics on the body, as opposed to simply believing a show on tv.

After you quoted that on the weight loss forum thread (bringing it in from a thread about something completely different), some confused people asked you why you did, to which you started the whole thing about saying that you were 'genuinely worried about Dragan'.

If you really do believe that is him admitting and advocating the use of steroids then IMO you have put two and two together and come up with 784.

aare wrote:

I cannot imagine that you would bring it up again without first getting somebody to go over the databases and edit out your exact quote, but my references to it should still be on the board I posted a link to requesting a Lipotrim forum...and if you have edited THOSE out it begs the question of exactly where you are accusing me of accusing you of this???

Conspiracies abound...

Dragan

Aare,

please. I understand that as this is the internet it is often required that we deal with those who are pretty far removed from reality. You appear to be just that.

As a side note, i love the way you KNEW i would bring it back up. Of course you did. The only way you knew that is because it's a ridiculous jump that you have made. As such it was always coming back up as an example of how ludicrous your posting behaviour was around that time.

Anyway, i'm done. I'm sick of being told that i do steroids. I actually find the whole idea to be highly annoying at this point.

At the moment your not banned from fitness, but keep up your pointless trolling and you will be, as i am simply not willing to see a repeat of this fiasco.

You offer nothing valuable to Fitness, plain and simple.

Dragan

aare wrote:

But reminded, I am utterly horrified that anybody would allow you to moderate the fitness forum. Even before you reminded me of the steroid question, You are just too fond of head games and personal abuse for that.

Oh yeah, and the dozen of people that we help over there, and the hundreds that i have helped since i first logged on to boards would, i imagine, all disagree with you.

Also, as a note to all the Admins, yes, i am the person who asked you all the remove all evidence of my "steroid use" from the board. :rolleyes:

Boston

I have to say I love the quote.

Dragan: People that use steroids are idiots.

Dragan: steroids give you cancer.

Dragan: steroids will kill you.

aare: So you're saying you use steroids and I should use steroids to?

TerrorFirmer

This thread is ricdiculous, and it was ridiculous the other time it was done too. I'm sure you can appreciate the fact that you seem to be the only person on not only the entire fitness forum but the entire site that finds Dragan lacking in any way, let alone unsuitable for the job.

I'm sure you've by now convinced yourself that we're rallying around the mod in the face of logic, and to be honest this actually does happen form time to time unfortunately but it is definately not happening here, and again, it certainly did not happen last time either.

Lipotrim has no place on a 'fitness' board, but like most things, it is open to reasonable discussion. But not this, which in all fairness is essentially a pisstake. Something like .5% of the population are 'obese' due to medical rather then nutritional reasons, and, seeing as you're completely convinced you fall within your category, your answer does not lie within a product like Lipotrim. After all, you said you couldn't shift a pound through the traditional, Dragan advocated approach. So what makes you think things are going to be different when you come off Lipotrim, or do you plan drinking liquid for the rest of your life.

You're either in denial or you need to see a doctor. Either way, please let this be the last time we have to hear this again....and genuinely, I wish you good luck, all else aside I appreciate your situation but at the same time, I don't think you have a footing in this argument.

Jumpy

Wait a sec there Havok, anything to do with Fitness, good or bad has a place on the Fitness forum.
The opinions you will get on the bad stuff though may not be sugar coated however (excuse the pun)
As a regular reader. Dragan has little or no reason to be brought up on Feedback about his modding style.
Mods are human and have their own views on things.
Watty on the CABLE MMDS IPTV likes his satellites.
Billy the Squid on Limerick City wont take anti-traveller comments.
Everyone mods their own way.
That said, the Fitness forum is not for borderline psychotic ranting, at least not from what I have read, its not for making accusations about what someone does or does not do either.

Jumpy

Dragan wrote:

Oh yeah, and the dozen of people that we help over there, and the hundreds that i have helped since i first logged on to boards would, i imagine, all disagree with you.

Also, as a note to all the Admins, yes, i am the person who asked you all the remove all evidence of my "steroid use" from the board. :rolleyes:

I dont think it should be removed, you have denied it and I am pretty sure most people would believe you.

Actually you should use 'roid rage' as an excuse when you ban people.

I am one of those hundreds, by the way. THe forum helped me big time.

TerrorFirmer

Sorry, I didn't phrase that so well. I meant it when I said it was open to discussion, but when I said it has no place I meant so in the sense that regular posters won't give much attention to any 'merits' of, nor encourage the use of, Lipotrim over a regular and well maintained diet combined with an actual physical regime. Which, in 99% of cases is fully sufficent, so hence the general negative attitude towards it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.