Champions League Quarter Finals Leg 2

Take it

PHB wrote:

United vs. Chelsea in the FA Cup, CL, and then in the 2nd last match in the premiership. Could be incredible

I wasn't aware that Chelsea beat Liverpool in the Semis already?

Dave!

United v Liverpool would be an amazing final

God I woulda loved to be there tonight .... wearing riot gear, so the ultras don't get me!

smemon

i think a Utd - Chelsea final would be a better advertisement for the game.

Whatever about liverpool winning it a couple of years ago, winning it twice in 3 years would make a bit of a mockery of the Champions League.

Barcelona restored some nornality last year when they won it deservedly. Previous to that, the Porto and liverpool victories de-valued the competition imo.

So i'd prefer to see a Utd - Chelsea final and one of those two win it.

besty

But the intensity of the United/Liverpool rivalry would be out of this world if it was showcased as a Champions League final. I actually don't want to think about it too much because I'm already getting excited and it's by no means guaranteed...

Guy:Incognito

smemon wrote:

i think a Utd - Chelsea final would be a better advertisement for the game.

Whatever about liverpool winning it a couple of years ago, winning it twice in 3 years would make a bit of a mockery of the Champions League.

Barcelona restored some nornality last year when they won it deservedly. Previous to that, the Porto and liverpool victories de-valued the competition imo.

So i'd prefer to see a Utd - Chelsea final and one of those two win it.

Whereas , tonights result aside, Uts have been demolishing all before them in amazing displays of footballing genious for the last 7 years?

As for Chelsea? How many threads are there on boards whinging about Chelsea grinding out results in poor games?

Devalued my hole, Liverpool deserved to win it.In the knockout stages they beat the top two Italian side, the English Champions and a team that hammered Madrid in the group stages. Wasnt an easy group on paper either.

This season they've come by Barce. Who else should they beat before thery are worthy of winning a cmpetition that is only good when won by the likes of Utd? Especially considering the very strong possiblity that if they do win it they will have beaten Utd in the final having beatenb Chelsea in teh semi's.

smemon wrote:

So i'd prefer to see a Utd - Chelsea final and one of those two win it.

I'd be amazed if one of them didnt win that final.

~Rebel~

smemon wrote:

liverpool victories de-valued the competition imo.

hmmm what a silly comment about the team who won it in what will probably go down as one of the very best finals ever. not like it was an easy run or anything, what with juventus and chelsea.

or is it just because it was liverpool. in which case its a really really silly comment.

would you prefer if they put in a rule that only a nice fashionable big name is allowed to win it?..just silly...

Royale with Cheese

It's a cup competition. Everybody who makes the knockout stages has an equal chance of winning it. De-valuing the competition? Rubbish.

cousin_borat

smemon wrote:

Barcelona restored some nornality last year when they won it deservedly. Previous to that, the Porto and liverpool victories de-valued the competition imo.

Seriously, get back in your box.

MisterAnarchy

DaveMcG wrote:

United v Liverpool would be an amazing final

I doubt it would.
There hasnt been a decent match between these two in over 5 years.

RasTa

smemon wrote:

Whatever about liverpool winning it a couple of years ago, winning it twice in 3 years would make a bit of a mockery of the Champions League.

Barcelona restored some nornality last year when they won it deservedly. Previous to that, the Porto and liverpool victories de-valued the competition imo.

What an idiotic comment to make.

fade2black

This thread has been full of idiotic comments...eirebhoy's gem that man for man roma are better than united will have me laughing into my corn flakes tomorrow morning.

I won't bother quoting all the idiotic predictions for united's match tonight, just like I won't bother quoting all the pre season predictions. Just stop trying to knock United, you'll only end up getting egg on your face. Same thing happened in 2005 with Liverpool.

zAbbo

There's a small matter of the semi's first lads, Utd and Liverpool are well capable of sub par performances and getting dumped out, Liverpool have been better in Europe over the last few years, no doubt about it.

_blank_

smemon wrote:

Previous to that, the Porto and liverpool victories de-valued the competition imo.

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

But seriously.

LOL.

RE*AC*TOR

Who let Bayern and AC Milan into the FA Cup?

griffdaddy

Who let Paul Scholes into that Michael Carrick costume??:D

yom 1

zabbo wrote:

There's a small matter of the semi's first lads, Utd and Liverpool are well capable of sub par performances and getting dumped out, Liverpool have been better in Europe over the last few years, no doubt about it.

There's the small matter of the Liverpool making the the semi's first! We aint there yet but hopefully will be tonight.

I expected united to win last night but not so convincingly. Roma were just awful. Thought or rather hoped Valencia would win as I would prefer to play them in the semi's than Chelsea(providing we finish the job tonight). A quality strike from Essien, but did i see right on the highlights last night, is Essien suspended for the first leg of the semi final? Could be a big loss for Chelsea because imo he has been far and away their best player this season.

Jimboo_Jones

ace game - congrats ManU you played them completly off the park

PHB

lol
Still we descend into rivalry when we all agree that United were great, Chelsea were great, and Liverpool were/will be great.

Any all English final would be incredible, incredible.
If I had to choose, I'd rather play Liverpool than Chelsea, just because we've got a much better record against Liverpool in the recent past.

Just to get in there, since we're still in all 3 comps, I want to win the premiership the most. So if we lose the league, and win the CL and FA Cup, I'll still think that the winners of the league are a better team than United.
Whoever wins the league is a better team imo.

I'll be extremely happy to get to the final, but I knew we would, since I had tickets and I can't go, so it was almost inevitable.

I think this is the start of an English domination of the CL for a while.
Three teams that have shown their worth in the CL, and who are only getting better. Next year, does anyone believe that United, Chelsea, and Liverpool are all going to become a better team again? Then theres Arsenal, who if they qualify, are still possibly of getting to the latter stages.

A couple of years at the top for English football in the CL will be incredible, and it's great, cause I think its the reason that Ronaldo/Xabi Alonso/Fabregas will stay at the English clubs, and why the next Ronaldinho will want to play in England.

p.s. Chelsea were amazing

PHB

Oh yeh, btw, Chelsea will have two very very tough ties against Liverpool, ties which are normally incredibly difficult, especially in workload, so it's not like that makes their run in any easier.

p.s. If we can do this to Roma, wouldn't you hate to be in Watford's dressing room right now?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

RE*AC*TOR

English teams have ahd a great record this year, but its almost been too easy. Where has the opposition come from. Barcelona folded so easily against Liverpool. AC Milan barely beat Celtic - and no offense to Celtic but that should have been relatively straight forward for one of the biggest teams in Europe. Real Madrid out early, Inter out. I can't accept that English teams have come on that much so quickly. The standards in Spain and Italy especially seem to have dropped. No one expects the dutch or french teams to be world beaters, but you do expect the big spanish and italian teams at least to play some decent football. Valencia burnt out by half time in both legs against Chelsea. Roma could only beat ten man UTD 2-1 in Rome, then got the kind of beating that is usually reserved for Dagenham and Redbridge in early rounds of the FA Cup. Liverpool are third by quite a distance in the Premiership (not too far ahead of the likes of Bolton), yet we brushed past Barcelona without too much fuss.

Perhaps the fear is gone, if Liverpool with Djimi Traore could win the CL, with a team that finished 5th in the Premiership that season, surely the great of Europe are no longer the imposing figures they once were to the lowly pedestrian English high flyers (mixed metaphors galore!!!).

Honestly, I'm dissapointed somewhat, while it is great to see the team we support do so well, at what point does the lustre of Big Ears start to fade? When UTD won against Bayern Munich it was the first time in a long time, when Liverpool won against AC Milan it was against all odds, but how significant will it be if year in year out the last 4 become dominated by the big four?

Guy:Incognito

PHB wrote:

p.s. If we can do this to Roma, wouldn't you hate to be in Watford's dressing room right now?

In fairness I dont think Watfords outlook will change.

UTd last night had one of those days where everything they hit went in. This normally wouldnt happen and was helped by the Roma keeper being on the edge of his 6 yard box for every shot, the angles were much bigger.

On another day, with a decent keeper Utd would have won 1 or 2 nil and nothing would be thought of it. How many games go like this? Not a lot.Roma as a whole were poor, but not 7-1 poor, the keeper made up the rest of the difference. Say for instance Schmeicel had been in goal for Roma, it wouldnt have been near 7-1.


I'm not knocking Utd. it was a great win, but be realistic, you cant pick this result over the rest and suddenly the team has been great all season. Everyone, Utd fans included have been talking about how poor the performances have been of late, one freak result doesnt really change that.

herbieflowers

Fergie was right when he said that this team respond to defeats (Arsenal, West Ham), so hopefully it is not just a flash in the pan and it will spur them on - it will certainly give them the confidence - in the title run-in.

PHB

Everyone, Utd fans included have been talking about how poor the performances have been of late, one freak result doesnt really change that.

Two poor performances, that's it
One of them was because we went down to ten men, one was just a freak result.
Before that, we beat Blackburn 4-1

Personally, I'd hate to be in Watford's shoes right now

Raskolnikov

eirebhoy wrote:

Did you actually see them play counter attacking football? I didn't. I said I believed they're the best team I've seen playing that type of football but they didn't actually get a chance to do it.

Oh come on now, if anyone is the best counter attacking team, it's Manchester United. They absolutely tore Roma to ribbons last night on the break.

Before anyone give me the spiel about me not knowing what I talk about, I acutally watch a Serie A game a week. There is a huge chasm between the quality of the top 6 teams in the league and the rest. Roma are a decent team who are made look better in Serie A than what they are because the likes of Chievo and Ascoli are rubbish.

As for Roma not deserving to be beat 7-1? I agree, the goal they scored flattered them.

loyatemu

Raskolnikov wrote:

Before anyone give me the spiel about me not knowing what I talk about, I acutally watch a Serie A game a week. There is a huge chasm between the quality of the top 6 teams in the league and the rest...

and that differs from the Premiership, how?

PHB

Hey, that goal was ****ing incredible, De Rossi scored what I'd consider the goal of the tourney. He basically scored the goal while running away from it, and kick it backwards, with incredible curve to get it into the net. Was an amazing goal. The reason people don't see it as such was that it was so good people just didn't know what to do, kinda like Tiago's goal against United a couple of years ago.

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

Hey, that goal was ****ing incredible, De Rossi scored what I'd consider the goal of the tourney. He basically scored the goal while running away from it, and kick it backwards, with incredible curve to get it into the net. Was an amazing goal. The reason people don't see it as such was that it was so good people just didn't know what to do, kinda like Tiago's goal against United a couple of years ago.

Yeah it was a fantastic goal. ITV after the match put together a kinda jokey Goals of the Match countdown but surprisingly enough they didn't include the Roma goal.

Paul Tergat

p_larkin99 wrote:

Getting really excited about tonights game now but think we're in big trouble

i reckon Roma will score and therefore we'll need 3 - which im not sure that we are capable of without saha/scholes

Giggs will be very important for us tonight - the rest of the front 6 (except Ole) have little CL experience at this stage of the competition

COME ON UTD

by the way - dont care about the other results!

I called it

What a performance, great to see those idiots on RTE having to admit that we were just too good....

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

Two poor performances, that's it
One of them was because we went down to ten men, one was just a freak result.
Before that, we beat Blackburn 4-1

Personally, I'd hate to be in Watford's shoes right now

no doubt richardson is going to start though, so watford will have a great chance.

PHB

Why would Richardson start
I think Fergie is putting him in the shop window, desperately trying to get his price up. Bringing him on at the end of a 7-1 victory, I think was him hoping that he would score, that way his value would go up, but he just seems to be utterly **** now. Giggs will defo be rested against Watford I'd imagine.

astrofool

I think eirebhoy is busy getting a bigger shovel to dig himself out with. Can't be easy sharing it with the RTE "panel".

Also, Roma had 54% of the possession, which is an interesting stat. (according to the after match stats).

BaZmO*

astrofool wrote:

Also, Roma had 54% of the possession, which is an interesting stat. (according to the after match stats).

Most of the 54% was used up by their keeper taking the ball out of the back of his net.

bucks73

Whatever about 54% last night and do f all with it they had 56% last week against ten men and did nothing with it. They got a lucky winner last week thanks to VDS.

An average team from an average league.

Raskolnikov

loyatemu wrote:

and that differs from the Premiership, how?

It doesn't. That's why the real test of a teams ability is the Champions League. Roma were given a lesson in how to play football to which they had no answer.

PiE

Every coupla years one country seems to excell in the CL/Uefa cup and people start spouting how they're gonna dominate for the next few years. Never happens. Wouldn't be surprised if none of the English teams make the semi's next season.

Also I miss the days before Sky when playing a European team was like a trip into the 'here be dragons' part of the footballing map.

LegacyUser

Where is Seaneh when you need him with his OTT italian football fetish??????

Fanny Cradock

PHB wrote:

Hey, that goal was ****ing incredible, De Rossi scored what I'd consider the goal of the tourney. He basically scored the goal while running away from it, and kick it backwards, with incredible curve to get it into the net. Was an amazing goal. The reason people don't see it as such was that it was so good people just didn't know what to do, kinda like Tiago's goal against United a couple of years ago.

I flicked onto ITV to see their crap post game analysis. They had put the goals of the game into order of their greatness - De Rossi's wasn't even mentioned.

::Edit::

Woops, already mentioned by BaZmO*

aidan24326

bucks73 wrote:

Whatever about 54% last night and do f all with it they had 56% last week against ten men and did nothing with it. They got a lucky winner last week thanks to VDS.

An average team from an average league.

I agree. Well almost, Roma on their day would be a bit better than average but overall the Italian League is really not great at the moment. Inter have won 25 and drawn 5 out of 30 Serie A games yet we've seen from the Champions League that they're nothing special. In days gone by a team would have had to be superb (a la Milan circa 1990) to go 30 games unbeaten in Serie A. It's almost unheard of. Would Inter be 30 games unbeaten in the premiership right now? No chance. And Bayern will fancy their chances of dumping AC Milan out tonight.

The current weakness of the Italian league (not helped by all the scandal) coupled with a disappointing effort from the Spanish teams has led to this year's English dominance. Lyon also flopped after looking red hot earlier on. The break came at the wrong time for them. But as others have said it could all change again next year.

padser

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Perhaps the fear is gone, if Liverpool with Djimi Traore could win the CL, with a team that finished 5th in the Premiership that season, surely the great of Europe are no longer the imposing figures they once were to the lowly pedestrian English high flyers (mixed metaphors galore!!!).

I think that is exactly the reason why someone commented earlier that teams like the liverpool of two years ago winning the competition on a regular basis de values the competition.

If 4 teams in England finsihed ahead of liverpool in a year long comprehensive league format but are 'champions of Europe' it suggests that the competition certainly doesn't turn up with the best team (or anything like it) in Europe as its winner.

While no one is suggesting that only 'big names' should be allowed win it, it certainly does imo de value the competition if second rate teams regulary win it or make the final.

Think of it like this, if Watford won the FA cup this yr, and Bradford the year before that and Ipswitch the previous year would be value of the competition be diminished?????

LuckyLloyd

padser wrote:

Think of it like this, if Watford won the FA cup this yr, and Bradford the year before that and Ipswitch the previous year would be value of the competition be diminished?????

I think that a string of results like that would be neccesary if the FA cup is to ever regain it's previous stature and place of importance within the game.

PHB

It's a cup. What devalues the competition is if you value it as a perfect test of skill

BaZmO*

padser wrote:

I think that is exactly the reason why someone commented earlier that teams like the liverpool of two years ago winning the competition on a regular basis de values the competition.

If 4 teams in England finsihed ahead of liverpool in a year long comprehensive league format but are 'champions of Europe' it suggests that the competition certainly doesn't turn up with the best team (or anything like it) in Europe as its winner.

While no one is suggesting that only 'big names' should be allowed win it, it certainly does imo de value the competition if second rate teams regulary win it or make the final.

Think of it like this, if Watford won the FA cup this yr, and Bradford the year before that and Ipswitch the previous year would be value of the competition be diminished?????

So in your view the only teams worthy of winning it since they introduced the system of the top team in each league qualifying, are the teams that that have qualified because they won their domestic league the year before?
Below is a list of teams that have won it since they changed the qualification rules with their final position the previous year in their respective leagues.

05/06	Barca	         1     1
04/05	Liverpool	 4     5
03/04	FC Porto	 1     1
02/03	AC Milan	 4     3
01/02	Real Madrid	 1     3
00/01	Bayern Munich    1     1
99/00	Real Madrid	 2     5
98/99	Manu	         2     1
97/98	Real Madrid	 1     4

edit- I put in an extra column showing which teams achieved the double that year of winning the CL and their Domestic league. Only 4 teams managed it. And only 3 teams managed to win their Domestic league the year before and then go on to do the double. Interestingly enough one of those teams was Porto, a team that was accused of devalueing the competition by winning.

BaZmO*

padser wrote:

Think of it like this, if Watford won the FA cup this yr, and Bradford the year before that and Ipswitch the previous year would be value of the competition be diminished?????

I think you're missing the point of the FA Cup. It's not supposed to be a Champion of Champion's League, it's supposed have lower league putting it up agianst the big boys.

Guy:Incognito

padser wrote:

I think that is exactly the reason why someone commented earlier that teams like the liverpool of two years ago winning the competition on a regular basis de values the competition.

If 4 teams in England finsihed ahead of liverpool in a year long comprehensive league format but are 'champions of Europe' it suggests that the competition certainly doesn't turn up with the best team (or anything like it) in Europe as its winner.

While no one is suggesting that only 'big names' should be allowed win it, it certainly does imo de value the competition if second rate teams regulary win it or make the final.

Think of it like this, if Watford won the FA cup this yr, and Bradford the year before that and Ipswitch the previous year would be value of the competition be diminished?????

How can it be devalued when Liverpool win it? The we in it with the so called bigger teams, including the 4 that finished above them in the league, but got further than anyone else.

So lets get this straight from whats been said in the thread. Utd winning it wouldnt delvalues the competition, despite them not being English champions, yet Liverpool, who finished 1 place and what, 3 point, behind them in the league would? Get over yoursleves.


IIRC, where Arsenal not English champions when Utd won it in 99? Poxy Utd devaluing the sacred competition that should be held only for teams like Liverpool who had won it 4 times.

BaZmO*

Stekelly wrote:

IIRC, where Arsenal not English champions when Utd won it in 99? Poxy Utd devaluing the sacred competition that should be held only for teams like Liverpool who had won it 4 times.

You have to remember who said that though.

Necronomicon

Well I'm late commenting on the amazing display last night, so everything has been said already.
Absolutely incredible performance, hopefully one which will put United's consistent sub-par European performances of recent years in the past. There were 8 terrific goals scored, De Rossi's and Smith being my two favourites. De Rossi just showed incredible technique, but the build up to Smith's, capped by the great finish, was just sublime.
Now I can look forward to the other semi tonight between Munich and Milan, very tough one to call but I predicted Munich when the draw was made so I'll stick to it.

Finally, I shouldn't even be drawn on the RTE panel, but I can't help myself. It was just a joy to hear them try to cover their asses after the game and make themselves sound less foolish. Fair play to Bill O' Herlihey for really sticking it to them. I don't mind Brady so much, but Giles and Dunphy were really taking the piss.
Edit: Apparently Dunphy called Ferdinand a 'tramp' before the game. Now that's the height of professionalism. :rolleyes:

PiE

Liverpool won the CL despite having Traore in the team, not because. I think that alone means Liverpool's triumph is the greatest win in the history of any sport ever.

Unless Utd win it with John O'Shea of course.

Guy:Incognito

Was just thinking there, does Solskjear ever score when he starts? I mean Utd got 7 last night bu the didnt get 1. It seemed nailled on when you saw him come off the bench that he'd score, you could put your house on it. But then when Fergie started putting him in the team from the start, the goal seemed to dry up. He needs to go back to being Roy of the Rovers:)

cson

He could be lining out against United in the prem next season for Sunderland if rumours are to be believed. (Which they most certainly are not )

Apparently Roy is after Diego Forlan of all people as well, bringing back all his old buddies to Sunderland! Could we see Seba Veron line out in the red and white stripes next season ? :eek: