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I don't want an abortion debate but...

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  • 09-04-2007 9:40pm
    #1
    Cnoc16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭


    I don't want another slagging match over abortion in this thread. Everyone has their views, and them views are for another day.

    However, It is an issue that I consider when voting, and want to know what the party lines are, in particular Fianna Fail.

    I've purposely not stated which side of the argument I'm on as this is not what the thread is about, and I hope others that respond will do the same.

    Here is what I can make out, but I want people to help clarify things:

    FF - Majority are anti abortion, some are not pushed.
    FG - I'm unclear on the position.
    Labour - Traditionally have not got involved, but newer members of Labour youth and candidates such as Ivana Bacik are high profile abortion supporters.

    SF - Although SF seem to toe the 'Catholic' line in the north, as far as I can remember, they promoted abortion in the 26 counties

    Green - I think that they have 'let members decide' and not taken an official line

    Socialist - Would like to see abortion on demand in most circumstances



    How right or wrong am I here?

    Again, I don't want to turn this into a debate about the rights or wrongs of abortion, but if anyone has any facts or statements from the parties, I'd love to read them.

    Thanks.


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    #2
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Maybe this would be better in the General Election Forum.

    I don't think abortion is much of a live issue; any change has to be by referendum, and we all know how mickey-mouse the last one was.

    Besides, I think most of the major parties want to brush it under the carpet, so even if they express an opinion either way, it is unlikely to result in a referendum.


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    #3
    wb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭wb


    johnnyskeleton wrote:
    Maybe this would be better in the General Election Forum.

    I don't think abortion is much of a live issue; any change has to be by referendum, and we all know how mickey-mouse the last one was.

    Besides, I think most of the major parties want to brush it under the carpet, so even if they express an opinion either way, it is unlikely to result in a referendum.

    Yep, perhaps the thread may be best placed elsewhere.

    So what you are saying is that you believe the main parties who form the next government wont take it head on?


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    #4
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    wb wrote:
    So what you are saying is that you believe the main parties who form the next government wont take it head on?

    It's possible, but unlikely. I also think that most of the big parties don't want it to be a big issue. At present we have a typically Irish solution: if you want an abortion, but you're not dying, feel free to go to England.

    If politicians can get away with it, i.e. unless they have to go into government with a few pro life/pro choice independents, then I don't think it will come up.


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    #5
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    It was mentioned before in another thread, but perhaps phrases such as "abortion supporters" should be avoided, it makes quite a charged and bias statement and that isn't the point of the thread. Not trying to be anal about semantics but you should probably just ask if a party is pro choice or pro life.


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    #6
    MontgomeryClift
    Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭MontgomeryClift


    brianthebard wrote:
    It was mentioned before in another thread, but perhaps phrases such as "abortion supporters" should be avoided,
    Their sensitivity about language tells us a lot about these abortion supporters and the lawyer-ish language games they play to make the reprehensible acceptable.


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    #7
    Cnoc16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Cnoc16


    Ok, Ignoring that my language may not be politically correct (No matter what phrases are used, it wont be acceptable to everyone) have I got it about right:

    FF - Majority are anti abortion, some are not pushed.
    FG - I'm unclear on the position.
    Labour - Traditionally have not got involved, but newer members of Labour youth and candidates such as Ivana Bacik are high profile abortion supporters.
    SF - Although SF seem to toe the 'Catholic' line in the north, as far as I can remember, they promoted abortion in the 26 counties
    Green - I think that they have 'let members decide' and not taken an official line
    Socialist - Would like to see abortion on demand in most circumstances


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    #8
    MontgomeryClift
    Registered Users Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭MontgomeryClift


    Have you checked their policy websites? Greens I think put it in terms of 'the people decide.'


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    #9
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Progressive Democrat policy on abortion is roughly in line with the Greens - It's up to you.


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    #10
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    FF - No position.

    PD - Pro-choice.

    FG - Pro-life.

    Labour - Mostly pro-choice.

    SF - I don't know.

    Green - No position. Our members are divided, but it tends not to be an issue within party debates.

    Socialist - Pro-choice.


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    #11
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Who bloody cares, the abortion issue has wasted enough political debating time in this country. It's normally thrown out as a smokescreen when there is a serious issue to be addressed somewhere else.


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    #12
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    MontgomeryClift wrote:
    Their sensitivity about language tells us a lot about these abortion supporters and the lawyer-ish language games they play to make the reprehensible acceptable.

    Its possible to be prochoice without being proabortion, which is why I said it. As gandalf says though it isn't really a big issue in Irish politics atm, there is a lot of other issues that need to be addressed like the nurses strike for instance!


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    #13
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    H&#250 wrote: »
    PD - Pro-choice.
    Actually the Progressive Democrat line is that it is a personal choice and it's not for the party to tell you how to decide. For instance:
    Mary Harney has said that it is rediculous that we send people to other countries for an abortion, and that it is a complete cop-out.
    Michael McDowell on the other hand, appears to be pro-life.


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    #14
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    MontgomeryClift wrote:
    Their sensitivity about language tells us a lot about these abortion supporters and the lawyer-ish language games they play to make the reprehensible acceptable.
    The next person to try to turn this explicitly non-abortion debate thread into an abortion debate thread gets at least a two week ban. You have been warned.


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    #15
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    My sympathy is limited for those looking for an abortion, except in cases of the mothers health. If you do the deed, live with the consequences....

    Abortion is only an easy way out, look at adoption, people adopt from abroad due to a lack of candidates at home, and yet how many are needlessly killed?


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    #16
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Cliste banned for a week. Next person who ignores my warning gets a month.


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    #17
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    The_Minister wrote:
    Actually the Progressive Democrat line is that it is a personal choice and it's not for the party to tell you how to decide. For instance:
    Mary Harney has said that it is rediculous that we send people to other countries for an abortion, and that it is a complete cop-out.
    Michael McDowell on the other hand, appears to be pro-life.
    Those who are anti-death ("pro-life") generally consider abortion to be murder and thus you rarely get an anti-death person who asserts the "but it's your call" line. If Mary is anti-life ("pro-choice") is that the policy of the Health spokesman?

    Or have the PDs any view on this whatsoever, or is the "it's not for the party to tell you how to decide" a fine big "stay away, not today, Disco Lady" euphemism?


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    #18
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Ibid wrote:
    If Mary is anti-life ("pro-choice") is that the policy of the Health spokesman?
    It's her personal opinion. Nothing more.
    Ibid wrote:
    Or have the PDs any view on this whatsoever, or is the "it's not for the party to tell you how to decide" a fine big "stay away, not today, Disco Lady" euphemism?
    "it's not for the party to tell you how to decide" is the stance. It's a personal choice that belongs to you. At least they discuss it sometimes, unlike most of the other parties who don't say a word about it. The thing is, if they did get a policy either way, half the membership would walk, as I understand that it's roughly a 50/50 devide between the two groups. No conclusion or policy on abortion could be reached that did not alienate a massive segment of the PDs. The same is true in other parties. Abortion in Ireland is too emotive to ever be rationally debated.


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    #19
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,830 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Ireland isn't the only place where abortion isn't always debated rationally, the U.S. has seen some people "debating" via a gun in a dark carpark.

    I can certainly understand why some of the parties, especially the smaller parties, would have no position on abortion. For a group or candidate who does not have an abortion stance as a core, definining issue, to take a position would be totally counterproductive, since either stance is going to alienate half of your members and voters.


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