So, is overtaking illegal now????

mike65

Sadly that the size of it - Speeds Kills is snappy but stupid.

Mike.

Andrewf20

BrianD3 wrote:

Very true. I actually think that these people who follow a slow vehicle and don't overtake *would* like to overtake in many cases. But as already stated, they can't because they're indecisive dawdlers who are following too close to the target vehicle. QUOTE]

Iv seen this may times. People too scared to over a tractor when is clearly safe to do so.

GreeBo

stratos wrote:

people idle your car and turn the lights on listen to your engine, your call i don't care.

Key point.
"Idle your car"
You are either driving or idle. The point is that when you are driving you are already generating excess power.

antodeco

esel wrote:

Biro, are you saying that some cars on full headlights actually have dips on as well? Never heard of that, and seems a bit crazy to me.

Mines like that. Ive two seperate bulbs, and when main are on, the dips are still on aswell.

Alun

antodeco wrote:

Mines like that. Ive two seperate bulbs, and when main are on, the dips are still on aswell.

Mine are too (Ford Focus C-Max). Doesn't seem crazy to me at all, I have to say.

_Kaiser_

antodeco wrote:

Mines like that. Ive two seperate bulbs, and when main are on, the dips are still on aswell.

What kind of car?

Sandwich

Dr. Loon wrote:

Overtaking 4 cars in a row is not safe, no matter what all ye eejits are saying.

Nonsense - the safety depends on how much of the road you can see, the speed of the cars you are overtaking, and the lotal length of the train you are going to overtake (I would dismiss car acceleration as not really relevant).

I remember overtaking a stream of at least 20 cars one day, in perfect safety. A very long straight stretch on the Galway/Headford road. It was a funeral and only doing about 15mph. I did not exceed the 60mph limit as it was at the time.

So no unreasonable risk at all.

mike65

You are going to hell though!

Mike.

Sandwich

unkel wrote:

I sometimes overtake many cars at once. I always apply maximum acceleration when overtaking, no matter what my final speed on the wrong side of the road may be. Oh and yes, that speed is more than the maximum speed regularly

Why? Because if I overtake, I do so in the safest possible way

= when I drive dangerously,I dont drive as dangerously as I could

Dr. Loon

RobAMerc wrote:

You come accross as a real car enthusiast sir - welcome to the Motors forum.

BTW Everything you write here is pure BS, you are exactly the type of clown I hate to see on this forum and more importantly on the road. Spouting shi*e you hear on the radio, "it's a limit not a target" ( actually this was stolen from the 'dont use your credit card fad a while back') and driving slow is safe - cop on, if people are not happy to drive at 100kph on the main road where its safe enough for others to overtake - YOU SHOULD NOT BE ON THE ROAD - you are obviously incompetent.

Real intelligent post there. Well done. How do you know if I should be on the road or not? Because I'm trying to advocate a bit more safety?! I think the number of deaths on our roads speak for themselves in terms of driver training here. 90% of my time on the roads I see idiots overtaking dangerously. Rarely do I see a completely safe overtake. I'm not kidding.

I'm sorry but the limit isn't a target! Are you saying otherwise? How ****ing dare you say I'm incompetent for having an opinion which is only looking towards road safety? Where conditions permit I drive at the limit, and where it's without a doubt safe to overtake, I overtake, not 4 in a row though. You don't know **** about my driving and just because I think it's unsafe to overtake 4 cars in a row you think I'm incompetent?! The mind baffles. Mind the insults there lad. Methinks you're the one that shouldn't be on the road.

MrPudding

nereid wrote:

well, if we can overtake what is the problem? just because you can't overtake, (see above) doesn't make it illegal for a motorcycle to do so.
And, while I am at it, if you mean a solid white line, then I do condone any motorcycle on the "wrong" side of it, but on several main roads, it is possible for a motorcycle to overtake safely and legally, while remaining on their own side of the solid white line.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Again, are bikers not subject to the same Rules as the rest of us? Should they not overtake only when it is safe (and legal) to do so?

What? He has said overtaking without crossing a solid white line.

My understanding of the rules of the road are a solid white line means do not cross not do not pass. If a biker can pass a car without actually crossing the solid line then it should be legal.

Of course if you have some information or references I am not aware of then I would love to see it.

One thing that surprised me when I started riding was how much more you can see when riding a bike over what you can see when driving a car.

I am a fairly conservative overtaker. I won't cross solid lines or overtake approaching junctions. However, I have carried out some overtakes and when I analysed them I reckon the cars I overtook must think I am a maniac. For example, overtaking a couple of cars on sweeping bends. On the face of it this may not seem safe. But if you consider when on my bike I am quite high, I can see over the roofs of MPVs. This position also allows me to see over hedges and around bends. This means I can, in some cases, overtake on bends.

My point is, what may seem dangerous to you in your car may not actually be. If you could see what the biker can see you may consider certain actions differently.

That said, there are a few nutter bikers out there. Of course they are masively outnumbered by nutter and incompetant car drivers.

MrP

mkennedy

DubTony wrote:

I drive the N3 daily, usually between 5:30 and 6:30 am and it's amazing to see the dawdling that goes on. It seems that people are just lazy about their driving. This morning (Bank holiday) at 8:30 a Peugeot 407 sat behind a truck, on it's arse, through several straight sections where overtaking was optimal and safe and never once made a move. I was 3 cars behind him and was amazed that neither he nor the two muppets behind him hadn't moved to overtake. Eventually I went for it and just as I approached the Peugeot, having passed the other two, the idiot decided to stick his nose out and have a look. I slowed in case he was going to go for it, but he pulled back. I accelerated again and, yup, you guessed it, out he came. F*cker was oblivious to what was going on around him.

He then proceeded to dawdle past the truck, so i pulled in behind it and listened to the other moron behind me blowing his horn and watched his flashing lights in the mirror. I had driven at between 60 and 70 k for 10 minutes behind these c*nts and when I make a safe overtaking move I get berated because some clown isn't checking his mirrors.

****

edit: Jesus, I just read the other 2 pages of this thread and thought I'd gotten lost. Is this still about overtaking?

I can totally sympathise with this.

I don't agree with the idea that overtaking a line of cars is ALWAYS dangerous. just a bit more complex requiring greater appraisal of traffic conditions that's all.

much of the problem as mentioned by DubTony is the potential obliviousness of cars in front to people who want to (perfectly legally) overtake multiple vehicles..
coupled with the fact that those cars often fail to leave sufficient space between them in the first place to allow for the possibility of single-vehicle overtaking.

DubTony's post outlines this muppetry well.

on the other hand i witnessed how multiple-vehicle overtaking should not be done just a few nights ago- muppet in a high-powered civic passing a line of 5 cars accelerating desperately trying to get back in and narrowly missing oncoming traffic -exactly how it shouldn't be done.

RobAMerc

Dr. Loon wrote:

Real intelligent post there. Well done. How do you know if I should be on the road or not? Because I'm trying to advocate a bit more safety?! I think the number of deaths on our roads speak for themselves in terms of driver training here. 90% of my time on the roads I see idiots overtaking dangerously. Rarely do I see a completely safe overtake. I'm not kidding.

I'm sorry but the limit isn't a target! Are you saying otherwise? How ****ing dare you say I'm incompetent for having an opinion which is only looking towards road safety? Where conditions permit I drive at the limit, and where it's without a doubt safe to overtake, I overtake, not 4 in a row though. You don't know **** about my driving and just because I think it's unsafe to overtake 4 cars in a row you think I'm incompetent?! The mind baffles. Mind the insults there lad. Methinks you're the one that shouldn't be on the road.

Ok - firstly I think you are confused - it wasn't meant as an insult it was meant as fact - if you cannot progress at the speed limit on an open clear piece of road you are not a competant enough driver to be on the road. ( I never said it was because you think overtaking 4 cars is dangerous)
Secondly - can I ask why there is never a time when it is safe in your opinion to overtake 4 cars in a row ?

unkel

Sandwich wrote:

= when I drive dangerously,I dont drive as dangerously as I could

Care to explain yourself? Do you mean that overtaking more than one car at a time and while doing so exceeding the speed limit always equals driving dangerously in your opinion?

If that's the case I disagree with you

Dr. Loon

RobAMerc wrote:

Secondly - can I ask why there is never a time when it is safe in your opinion to overtake 4 cars in a row ?

Sorry, my first post comes across a bit too cut and dry. Of course there are times when overtaking a line of cars is safe. Just the majority of times I've seen it done is not. The idea is that, the less time you spend on the wrong side of the road, the safer.

You indicated I was a clown. I think that's an insult.

AntiVirus

unkel wrote:

Why? Because if I overtake, I do so in the safest possible way

Bang on! Get out of the danger zone as quickly as possible.

Biro

Kaiser2000 wrote:

What kind of car?

Celica's have 2 seperate bulbs, as do Passat's, not sure on Golfs, a few Audi's etc all have seperate bulbs, and have both on.
It's easy to see the difference in a lot of cars. From the outside it's not easy if they're both in the same housing, in the celica for example they're in two different housings, but from inside looking out it's easy to see what does and what doesn't. A different section of the road ahead lights up on the ones with 2 filimant bulbs where as an additional section lights when all come on!!

BostonB

The problem is that most people have a problem with being overtaken, or if they can't overtake, waiting 5 minutes till the road allows an easy overtake.

If you are overtaking there should be no oncoming cars, or blind spots, and there should be plenty of time to to pull back in. You shouldn't have to rush to get back to your side.

The problem with a line cars is that it much harder predict what more than one car is going to do, and it simply takes longer.

The other side of it is that if a Cop sees you and takes a dim view of it...

GreeBo

Well the more cars you overtake the less you can actually see of where you are intending to "land".
If you decide to overtake 15 cars in a funeral procession and someone pulls out of some side lane that you didnt even see then you might not have anywhere to go to get back to your side of the lane.

I think its pretty obvious that the more cars you are overtaking the more dangerous it is.
- more time on wrong side of the road
- less visibility about road conditions ahead
- more time before you can get back to your side of road
- etc

Mitch Connor

GreeBo wrote:

Well the more cars you overtake the less you can actually see of where you are intending to "land".
If you decide to overtake 15 cars in a funeral procession and someone pulls out of some side lane that you didnt even see then you might not have anywhere to go to get back to your side of the lane.

I think its pretty obvious that the more cars you are overtaking the more dangerous it is.
- more time on wrong side of the road
- less visibility about road conditions ahead
- more time before you can get back to your side of road
- etc

being more dangerous then passing one car, does not make passing 4 dangerous by default.

GreeBo

Tauren wrote:

being more dangerous then passing one car, does not make passing 4 dangerous by default.

Yes it does.
If something is "more" dangerous then we have already agreed that it is dangerous

MrPudding

Overtaking 4 car at one time in a safe manner is not, by definition, dangerous.

It is perfectly possible to overtake more than one car in a safely. Of course, people may do it in a non safe way but this does not mean a good driver cannot carry out the action safely.

MrP

GreeBo

MrPudding wrote:

Overtaking 4 car at one time in a safe manner is not, by definition, dangerous.

It is perfectly possible to overtake more than one car in a safely. Of course, people may do it in a non safe way but this does not mean a good driver cannot carry out the action safely.

MrP

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.:o
I do think there are "safer" ways to overtake but I think that anytime you are on the wrong side of the road its dangerous. The longer you are there the more dangerous it is.

Mitch Connor

GreeBo wrote:

Yes it does.
If something is "more" dangerous then we have already agreed that it is dangerous

no.

Playing football is more dangerous then not playing football (more chance of injury) but that does not mean playing football itself is dangerous.

MrPudding

GreeBo wrote:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.:o
I do think there are "safer" ways to overtake but I think that anytime you are on the wrong side of the road its dangerous. The longer you are there the more dangerous it is.

I guess we will. Don't worry, many people are incapable of grasping simple principles of advanced driving. You are not alone.

MrP

GreeBo

Tauren wrote:

no.

Playing football is more dangerous then not playing football (more chance of injury) but that does not mean playing football itself is dangerous.

then you are comparing overtaking with not overtaking.
A better anaolgy would be to compare playing 5 a side with playing in the permiership.
But anyway, for something to be more dangerous you need to add more danger.
If, by doing something you are adding danger then that thing is dangerous.

GreeBo

MrPudding wrote:

Don't worry, many people are incapable of grasping simple principles of advanced driving. You are not alone.

:rolleyes: "advanced driving"

saobh_ie

When I'm in the car I'm hesitant to overtake at times, its only a 1.5 and when your on the right hand side of the road it feels like its not accelerating fast enough. So my car overtakes are limited to good clear straight stretches of road with no junctions and a bare minimum of entrances and road markings to make over takes legal.

I will keep my foot on the floor until I'm past whoever I'm passing no matter what speed that takes me up to. Probably 130 to 140kmh on your typical N road. This will allow me to pull out well behind him, and pull back in without forcing him to even consider braking unlike a lot of people who nearly take the front of your car when finishing an overtake.

During the overtake I also consider and am capable of aborting it, loosing speed gradually or doing a full on ABS style stop and getting back onto my own side of the road behind the vehicle. I have made the serious mistake of misjudging an over take once and having to abort an overtake but I had only just started to cross the white line then and probably could have made it but outside of my comfort zone.

Most people who overtake in this country seem incapable of giving up. They’ll start an overtake, realise that your going to be in their face a lot quicker than they thought and they’ll keep coming forcing oncoming traffic to react.

On the motorbike I’m pretty confident when overtaking and if the only thing preventing a safe overtake is some paint I’m gone. I’ll overtake around right and left hand bends but only when I can see, can stop, and the maths have come up good.

Unlike some of the posters above who will overtake vehicles while staying inside the white line I’d never do something so ridiculous, I’ve overtaken cars using the hard shoulder on the opposite side of the road, purely because it was there and kept me as far from the cars as possible. Typically I move to the centre or nearside of the oncoming lane.

Typically on the N roads however cars always make room for motorcycles allowing you to overtake ‘on’ the centre line.

BostonB

saobh_ie wrote:

.....So my car overtakes are limited to good clear straight stretches of road with no junctions and a bare minimum of entrances and road markings to make over takes legal. ....

That what everybody is limited to no?

BostonB

MrPudding wrote:

Overtaking 4 car at one time in a safe manner is not, by definition, dangerous.

It is perfectly possible to overtake more than one car in a safely. Of course, people may do it in a non safe way but this does not mean a good driver cannot carry out the action safely.

MrP

Its all relative. Its more dangerous than not doing it, and arguably more dangerous as its less predictable than doing it one car at a time.

Speeding may not be dangerous. Whereas being under the speed limit, might be still too fast for poor road conditions, and thus dangerous. Its again all relative.

Is overtaking more than one vehicle illegal?