Letter in the Independent

stolenwine

Blut wrote:

If she doesnt even have the personality to stand up to her parents and decide what to do in college herself how can she expect other people to want to be friends with her?

You don't know anyone who has been put under undue pressure by parents/guardians to change their principles,life choices, career direction?

In that case you don't have too many friends yourself.

Jonny Arson

Youswine wrote:

Well thank you all very much for passing your expert judgement on this girl. Some of your holier than thou attitudes are appalling. I don't give a sh*t if some of you think you have all the answers, or think you can point the finger and identify with this girl's problems; that attitude is bull****.

The fact is, no matter who's fault it is, that people like this who have more difficulty than others in socialising, have just as much right to be catered for as all of you great people who wouldn't know sensitivity if it slapped you in the face.

This letter is a serious cry for help and most alarming. The reasons beind why she feels the way she does are irrevalent. The issue is that there are people who feel like this girl around us in this college, and that is most unacceptable.

I don't care if you guys think 'Well I was fine, so why should other people get special treatment'. Bull****. People are different from you. And they deserve to be catered for too. It's no wonder the rate of suicide among young people is so high in this country when you see responses like these to a letter like this.

The issue this thread should be focusing on; is how to change our environment and stop people from feeling this way. I don't care if some of you think that she shouldn't feel the way she does.

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The girls feeling down. *Maybe* depressed.

Now maybe her course/living arrangements/financial situation make it hard for her to socialise, maybe shes not the most confident/hasnt tried very hard.

But beside all that, nothing to do with whos fault it is that shes blue and lonely; I thought your post was just being a dick, and not in your usual funny way.

Everybody, no matter how great they are or how uberfantastic their life, feels down at some time or another. I'm sure you can relate to that.

I dont know the girl who wrote the letter or anything about her. But I think alot of the responses in this thread are the generic replys people give to those who are depressed (again, Im not saying that this particular girl is depressed in the clinical sense). Suck it up or deal with it are the ignorant types of advise many Irish people give to those who are sick (depression is an illness) and its part of why we have such high suicide rates.

Fantastic posts.

Some of the harsh and ignorant comments on this thread reinforces the theme of that girls' letter - people in this college just don't want to know about issues like this and can't be bothered to attempt to understand this girl's predicament and why she is in it, instead ''it's all her fault' :rolleyes:

Thank Christ some of you guys aren't training to become counsellors or social workers.....

Riamfada

For the record I was pushed into a course by my parents when I left college and didnt enjoy my original college (griffith) for the same reasons Sarah Brady dosnt enjoy UCD . Actually my predicament was scarily simular. I realised however that I had to escape that situation and the ownus was on myself to do so. I left Griffith and got a job. Now Im in UCD and make the effort to speak to people even though I often find it uncomfortable and daunting.
If some of you do not see it as her responsiblity to chose her own way and make her own friends can you please tell me who the ownus is on? Is it the bricks and mortar of UCD that causes the problem? The vast number of students in UCD? How do we tackle this then because as far as I can see those who sympatise with Mrs Brady show no signs of offering any real solution. More content to blame posters like myself and those who take responsiblity for their own actions.

Id appreciate no speculation as to Mr Brady's mental health, monitory status , her attempts to join clubs and societys or even speak to people in her class as she didnt state that she had attempted such measures before writing to the Independent

Riamfada

Youswine wrote:

have just as much right to be catered for

excuse me? how excatly do we cater for students with social problems? Set up multiple clubs and societies? Have a freshers tent? Or just send them a prepacked-friend on their first day of college? Hugh Brady should really get the finger out on this one! That bastard is trying to ruin the lives of honest introverts!

pFd

Sangre wrote:

And maybe shes anti-social freak. Oh wait, I'm sorry we can only make assumptions if they're warm and cuddly.

Your right, you are a dick.

Riamfada

pFd wrote:

Your right, you are a dick.

yes but he is also right

m1ke

I've seen a lot of this sort of isolation over the years in ucd and I have sympathy for the author. It mainly happens in the arts subjects but it can happen elsewhere too. Class sizes up to 500, constantly changing classes with different people everyday. Some of the posters on this thread are happy to make cheap generalisations and arrogant assumptions about the problem and lay the blame on individuals. It is just the sheer volume of people and their rapid turnover that is leading to the isolation of some individuals for many, many reasons.

Things will continue along this path unless there is some sort of basic restructuring of arts and other large faculties into units that are suited to socialising people. However, I don't see this happening as it is just too impractical. UCD is an institution that serves up education en masse and there are no resources to restructure our way out of the problem of large class sizes. People need to be aware of this before they go and not be led down the garden path, if you're not comfortable with yourself, sociable or able to mix like an adult outside of the school yard then you should not go to UCD.

Riamfada

m1ke wrote:

Some of the posters on this thread are happy to make cheap generalisations and arrogant assumptions about the problem and lay the blame on individuals.

Well by your logic then everyone who comes to UCD is isolated. However the majority combats "massive class sizes" and actually make interpersonal connections. Have people heard of tutorials? Class sizes of 6-10 people ? Always good to meet people. Study groups organised through blackboard. The option is there its just most people are too lazy to look at tada! Blame it on UCD and class sizes. Which I refuse to accept as a valid point.

funktastic

Tutorials aren't a good place to meet people. You meet every two weeks (in Arts subjects anyway) and people regularly don't turn up/drop out/have their own groups that they talk in already so they don't make an effort.

Riamfada

funktastic wrote:

Tutorials aren't a good place to meet people. You meet every two weeks (in Arts subjects anyway) and people regularly don't turn up/drop out/have their own groups that they talk in already so they don't make an effort.

well you cant say thats the same for all tutorial groups. With 6 subjects per semester therefore 6 tutorials or 24 in total its not that hard to spark up a conversation.


Places to meet people on campus

• Lectures
• Sports
• Societies
• Tutorials
• Student Political Parties (Shell to Sea , KBC ect)
• Study Groups
• Smoking Section :P (always full of lonesome smokers)

Anyone got a decent point against all of those social aspects ill change my tone. Until then ill keep stating college dosnt come with a pre planned social scene. You have to find people with the same interests and then make the effort to go to those groups.

G

pretty*monster

The fact is this girl will, at some point have to leave college and enter the workplace which has none of the safety nets that college has. She has to learn to stand on her own too feet, yes, some people need help standing on her own too feet, ucd provides advisers, chaplains, councillors, a psychiatrist and the union provide a welfare officer.

There comes a point where the fault lies with the individual. Denying this fact is something we see more in society and the results are overwhelmingly negative, if you deny an individuals personal responsibility for their own problems you rob them of the ability to solve them. people have to learn coping skills, they have to learn social skills. Contrary to what some of the posters on this board seem to think the way to deal with many emotional problems and depression is not to blame others or your circumstances but to take personal responsibility and positive action.

funky penguin

I was just thinking of this today (in a lecture... ¬_¬). Arts is a very inhospitable environment (socially) for someone joining the college by themselves. A hand full of lectures a week with the occasional tutorial? Bah!

Yes, I agree, societies and clubs are excellent at preventing mass depression and lonliness, but they're not for eveyone. Some 'Socially awkward' people can find it intimidating.

As already stated, in some cases it boils down to the person making a bold, positive move. Personally, throwing all the points about the social aspect of UCD out the window, thats what Sarah Brady has to do. She states the sole reason she is in UCD is because of her parents. She needs to talk to them.

Failing that, if you read boards Sarah, drop us a line and we'll all head out for a drink.

Tan Princess

pretty*monster wrote:

The fact is this girl will, at some point have to leave college and enter the workplace which has none of the safety nets that college has. She has to learn to stand on her own too feet, yes, some people need help standing on her own too feet, ucd provides advisers, chaplains, councillors, a psychiatrist and the union provide a welfare officer.

There comes a point where the fault lies with the individual. Denying this fact is something we see more in society and the results are overwhelmingly negative, if you deny an individuals personal responsibility for their own problems you rob them of the ability to solve them. people have to learn coping skills, they have to learn social skills. Contrary to what some of the posters on this board seem to think the way to deal with many emotional problems and depression is not to blame others or your circumstances but to take personal responsibility and positive action.

Thats nonsense. It's alot easier to make friends in work where there are small groups unlike Arts where there are huge lectures and few tutorials. What if someone isn't sporty? Or if they have a long commute and can't stay in late for society stuff?

Riamfada

Tan Princess wrote:

What if someone isn't sporty? Or if they have a long commute and can't stay in late for society stuff?

What if what if what if ?????! God thats annoying. What if they are DEAD and physically unable to make friends

Join a club or society (ad nauseum btw) and BANG there is your small group Alot of society stuff happens during the day and at weekends (what if they have to work at the weekend!?) . Do you want me to start listening examples of activities to do during the day?

So TanPrincess, what do you suggest these people do or have done for them?

Tan Princess

I suggest class reps in arts actually bother to organise class parties for a start.

Giblet

Grimes wrote:

What if what if what if ?????! God thats annoying. What if they are DEAD and physically unable to make friends

Join a club or society (ad nauseum btw) and BANG there is your small group Alot of society stuff happens during the day and at weekends (what if they have to work at the weekend!?) . Do you want me to start listening examples of activities to do during the day?

So TanPrincess, what do you suggest these people do or have done for them?

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

Riamfada

Giblet wrote:

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

Excuse me ? Im not being asked to relate to anyones problems? If you bothered to read the thread in its entireity you'd have seen my post "my heart goes out to the girl" but you are missing the point. Its not the fault of UCD that people feel excluded. There are 22000 people in UCD, are you telling me there is no one simular to yourself in the college to relate to? No friends to make? So if you want to get petty and call me a **** just shows your in depth knowledge of UCD and the thread in general


TanPrincess - Class parties would be more daunting no? Put some pressure on the class reps. Take some damn repsonsibility. Why is it always someone elses fault?!

pretty*monster

Giblet wrote:

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

You're right, we should all sit around and feel bad for the girl and be sure and only say nice things about her because as we all know ones problems are never one's own responsibility to solve.

humbert

Between attacking/condemning SB and defending her people have missed what she was saying. She's not complaining that she can't make friends! She's saying that it's possible to spend a long time in UCD without making friends.

Some people, including me at times, are not particularly sociable. They don't try to make friends, however what is significant about UCD is how easy it is to be a student here and never talk to people. While it may be in some people's nature to shy away from talking to people it's not healthy, it can lead to depression and nobody's to blame. Why does someone have to be to blame, it's a feature of the persons nature, that's all.

It's unfortunate and it wouldn't hurt for people to make an effort to chat to someone in their class that seems to spend a lot of time by themselves. It's particularly common in UCD for people to be ignored, because the college is so big and people are so anonymous here. The environment encourages people to feel comfortable paying little attention to someone next to them in a lecture theatre for example.


I'm not blaming anyone, blaming the masses for example. Who profits from assigning blame anyway.

funktastic

Well I think it is in the college's interest to make sure people don't feel excluded. It comes across in all areas of college life, from staff right down to students. The college are trying to make a more cohesive community and I've heard about this constantly from everyone from my six years here.

If the person is in first arts you would only have one tutorial in each subject every two weeks, that isn't an awful lot.

Financial situation also has a bearing. Yes it is free to a lot of societies but there is often drinks and stuff afterwards.

Also, have some consideration.How do you know what is going on in certain people's lives? Depression, death. Don't just say 'It isn't the college's fault' which you're going to say again right now, but sure...great

Giblet

pretty*monster wrote:

You're right, we should all sit around and feel bad for the girl and be sure and only say nice things about her because as we all know ones problems are never one's own responsibility to solve.

Strawman bollox frankly, I think having some consideration for a split second and probably realising that just because someone has problems you don't doesn't mean she's weak and is looking for attention or whatever rigmarole that'll make you feel better about not caringt and not going on rants about how societies and social occasions will solve all her problems. But who cares about other peoples problems.

You don't know anything about her, but yeah "we should all sit around all day" roll ****ing eyes. You know that's not what I meant at all. Grow up.

And Grimes, saying "I feel sorry for the girl" and then spouting that crap is akin to saying "I'm not racist...but."

Riamfada

Giblet wrote:

And Grimes, saying "I feel sorry for the girl" and then spouting that crap is akin to saying "I'm not racist...but."

Please bother to read the thread?

You will also see me say I was in the same situation. We all have our problems and we deal with them. Social , financially or otherwise.

And not solve all her problems. Help people make social links in UCD. Thats the point of this thread or have you missed that

m1ke

Well by your logic then everyone who comes to UCD is isolated.

I said 'some individuals', I didn't say 'all individuals'. Read more carefully!

Giblet

Grimes wrote:

Please bother to read the thread?

You will also see me say I was in the same situation. We all have our problems and we deal with them. Social , financially or otherwise.

And not solve all her problems. Help people make social links in UCD. Thats the point of this thread or have you missed that

No, I'm saying that what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and that by suggesting that'll solve her problems is short sighted.

Blowfish

Tan Princess wrote:

I suggest class reps in arts actually bother to organise class parties for a start.

Going to a class party would be a terrible idea for someone who feels the way she does.

Riamfada

Giblet wrote:

No, I'm saying that what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and that by suggesting that'll solve her problems is short sighted.

Im not suggesting that will solve all her problems. Im suggesting its a way to meet people in the UCD enviroment. She never stated in her letter that she even tried. Her "problems" are not for the UCd forum nor are they stated in her letter. Alot of posters here are assuming she has "problems" which is totally speculative and off topic

Sangre

pfd and giblet banend for personal abuse.

humbert

Blowfish wrote:

Going to a class party would be a terrible idea for someone who feels the way she does.

I'm not sure about that. It would have to be organised in such a way as to encourage people to chat to people to people they don't already know. Assigning people to teams for a table quiz for example, but I think things like that could really help.

Sangre

Giblet wrote:

You're being petty, "there you are", it's all sorted that easily. You don't need activities, you need people you can relate to. You also have to take into account personal stuff like cash flow, home conditions etc etc. There never is a quick fix. You're just being an inconsiderate **** who can't relate to other peoples problems.

And how can UCD possibly help problems like cashflow or home conditions? Some people get drawn the short straw and can't make friends in college. Well, life is a bitch sometimes. Unless you can give examples of how UCD can change her personal situations then I'm all ears.

Or were you just looking for an outcry of sympathy by anonymous internet posters to a person no-one know and that she will probably never read. This isn't PI.

You can't reply so I win by default.

pretty*monster

Giblet wrote:

Strawman bollox frankly, I think having some consideration for a split second and probably realising that just because someone has problems you don't doesn't mean she's weak and is looking for attention or whatever rigmarole that'll make you feel better about not caringt and not going on rants about how societies and social occasions will solve all her problems. But who cares about other peoples problems.

Who called her weak? Who said she was looking for attention?
All anyone has said is that there are a plethora of avenues within which to make friends in ucd, and that the solutions to this girls problems lie within herself if she needs an extra hand helping herself there are advisers,chaplains, councillors, and a psychiatrist free of charge on campus, that doesn't mean that it'll be easy for her to solve her problems (I'm not presuming to know what her problem is, what I am certain of is that it is her problem to solve), but that's life and sometimes life is hard.