Banned from Paranormal

6th

But commenting on the feedback thread rather than on the thread/forum/post in question isn't the way to go is it? By the time I get here following a ban obviously I am going to be in an altered frame of mind.

aidan_walsh

6th wrote:

I have no problem with Stevenmu's modding style

In spite of the fact that you think he is a poor mod and this his style is to not mod often, but when he does he sets out to make examples of people?

6th wrote:

I would suggest that in a situation like this one that a mod who is socially & personally involved with a poster should ask a co-mod to moderate the situation in their place.

I really don't see why that should be the case, or how you would even expect it to be workable on the more closely knit forums.

6th

ned78 wrote:

Well done 6th! I wish I could have been as eloquent in my own Feedback thread on Hindsight, I still think there should be a more firm process in place for executing a ban, but that's a different story completely. And I hope your ban is revoked quickly indeed.

I genuinely appreciate that seeing as you are someone who could very easily have put past dealings in the way and continued to slate me. It makes the apology easy to swallow and worthwhile.

tbh

well, I was talking about the feedback forum in general, rather than this particular thread. I've seen you being incredibly dismissive to genuine posters in here, as someone already mentioned, it's kind of ironic that you find yourself in the same position now. Maybe next time you'll be willing to give ordinary posters the benefit of the doubt, and just not get involved. Like I'm about to do

nesf

Well, as an aside, they are more likely to notice a reported post quicker than a post by you in the thread tbh. So if you want quick responses to things in the forum it'd be a better idea to use the report post button.

In my opinion anyways.

6th

nesf wrote:

Well, as an aside, they are more likely to notice a reported post quicker than a post by you in the thread tbh. So if you want quick responses to things in the forum it'd be a better idea to use the report post button.

In my opinion anyways.

But I didnt use that as I thought that would be rude. My undertsnading was that that was not what the report post function is for and would be annoying to the mods. Also rather than pm (which didnt work in the past) I chose a way that they would see in their own time.

A mod saw it and merged the threads (because they obviously agreed not because I said so), Stevenmu saw the request and banned me.

monkeyfudge

If that was the straw that broke the camels back... then it was a seriously small straw.

Does the camel have a bone marrow deficiency perhaps?

Dragan

6th wrote:

(which didnt work in the past)

For me that kind of sheds some light on the subject. Just because you want something done, doesn't mean it will happen. Just because you send someone a PM saying "please move this thread" or whatever the wording is does not mean it will get done, and there is no real obligation to get back to you and say why over a trivial matter.

However, the fact that you say "which didn't work in the past" kind of implies to me that because you feel it should be done, then it SHOULD be done?

Or at least that is the impression that i get. Forums are run by Mods. If you dislike the way it's run over minor reason like that then don't post there.

6th

Dragan wrote:

For me that kind of sheds some light on the subject. Just because you want something done, doesn't mean it will happen. Just because you send someone a PM saying "please move this thread" or whatever the wording is does not mean it will get done, and there is no real obligation to get back to you and say why over a trivial matter.

However, the fact that you say "which didn't work in the past" kind of implies to me that because you feel it should be done, then it SHOULD be done?

Or at least that is the impression that i get. Forums are run by Mods. If you dislike the way it's run over minor reason like that then don't post there.

I can understand that that is your take on it but I'll be very surprised in another Paranormal Forum mod sees my attitude as anything like that. When I ask about things on the forum or make suggestions its usually done in a very friendly manner and I never expect to get what it is I've asked. Fact is that Ive felt in the past that I can approach Stevenmu as I know him in person and I know he doesnt take me up the wrong way.

This really isn't about asking for 2 threads to be merged.

Owen

At the risk of starting another row, would it not simply be much much easier to make 6th a Mod? He's obviously passionate about the Forum, and has the wherewithall, as well as the time to monitor it and represent it to the best of his ability.

It might not be a snap decision like that, but maybe the powers that be could indeed look into it.

6th

I'm not out to be a mod (though few wont belive me) I'm very happy to be a user as long as I can be modded fairly. I get your points as to why it would make sense but I'm of the opinion that if the powahs wanted me modding it i'd be doing it already.

tbh

6th wrote:

I'm not out to be a mod (though few wont belive me) I'm very happy to be a user as long as I can be modded fairly. I get your points as to why it would make sense but I'm of the opinion that if the powahs wanted me modding it i'd be doing it already.

that's the thing tho 6th. I think a lot of people would say that you are being modded fairly. what I'm getting from your posts here are that you don't mind being a user, as long as the mods always do what you ask, and agree with your opinions.

Stoner

When I first posted on the paranormal forums it was a bit of a joke, few could post without facing mass ridicule.
One or two years later I went back and I noticed a much better environment, I have posted before about my support of Stevemu as a mod and how good I thought he was, my opinion has not changed. The huge improvement in the forum is due to the good work of Psi and Stevenmu as mods.
This issue has been brewing for a while, and despite what 6th or Stevenmu say there is an element of both back seat modding and a personal agenda IMO.
To back up what 6th says, there is evidence of things going unnoticed and then the hammer of a mod to “put people in their place” being applied where maybe small doses at more regular periods of time may have been a better approach.
Stevenmu and 6th were joined at the hip when I met them first; I was told by 6th that he “visits no sites without him (Stevenmu)”
It is a simple fact IMO in the paranormal forum that by far the most active and helpful contributor recently has been 6th. That said I have said in the past that I don’t think 6th would make a good mod as he gets too involved and the thread would miss that level of involvement, there is nothing worse then a mod who gets involved in a thread while holding the ban option like an axe, lets not forget that this forum touches on religious belief frequently.

The relationship between Stevenmu and 6th always seemed like a good partnership more than anything else. they are both very well informed I don’t believe that this was “the straw that broke the camels back” in my opinion 6th comments and suggestions were once welcomed by Stevenmu they seemed to agree on most things, however lately there has been a little bit of niggling going on. Stevenmu you were missed in Leap Castle last week.
I am almost certain that this is not an argument started by back seat modding there is more to this then most and I know.
Essentially this is an argument between two good friends. It should be sorted out between you two; IMO it should not be stuck up here for everyone to read. I don’t think you guys want that either, Stevenmu did after all ban 6th via PM not in public.
Something or someone has come between you guys and it would be best for both of you if you could reach a compromise that enables your friendship to resume, life is too short to let friends become enemies. Maybe phone each other or something because this method of communication is not going to yield a positive result.

6th

Stoner as a regualr user of the forum and someone who knows both myself and steven you have a ceretain amount of insight which you've used very well here. The only problem is that I have no idea what the problem is and that its affecting my ability to use a forum I contribute to alot.

nesf

6th wrote:

But I didnt use that as I thought that would be rude. My undertsnading was that that was not what the report post function is for and would be annoying to the mods. Also rather than pm (which didnt work in the past) I chose a way that they would see in their own time.

A mod saw it and merged the threads (because they obviously agreed not because I said so), Stevenmu saw the request and banned me.

In my opinion from the perspective of the forums I mod rather than paranormal in particular, if you wouldn't use the report post button to signal it for attention then you shouldn't post about it in the thread never mind PMing the mods about it.

I can see where you are coming from but I don't think I agree with your approach tbh. The ends don't justify the means and all that.

Sangre

Stevenmu has obviously been possessed by a demon.

ferdi

6th, mate dont even bother. as you know these feedback posts almost never bare fruit. i cant comment on anyone involved in this little fracas but can offer somegeneral observations. this is why many mods become and remain as mods, it gives them the proverbial horn. why else would they stay doing a 'job' which eats into what little precious time they have left? i'm not saying this is the case here but in general i've found that when people begin modding it can effect how they think and perceive the world to some degree.

that said i can see how the alleged backseat modding would be annoying but at the same time - if you have loads of ideas on how the forum should run, if you are there very regularly and post on a wide range of topics, if you are interested in keeping things on topic, if you orginise meet-ups etc... i have to ask why you are not modding the forum? its probably that getting your toe in the door of such an elite club as 'boards.ie mods' is never an easy thing to do.

there's lots of great posters and lots of bogie ones. same goes for mods...what can you do?

i know its annoying as hell to have your free time activities/hobby arbitrarily (as you see it) curtailed by someone when you have virtually no come back and when that someone has a group of people around him, all very interested in maintaining the status quo. rock/hard place man.

after the ban, come back and continue doing whatever you believe is in the best interests of the forum.

dont let the man get you down.

6th

Cheers ferdi but I'm usually one of the first to defend the mods because even when I've been banned from the likes of After Hours its been for a good reason ... this ban is just crazy and confusing.

Anti

When do we get to see some blood

6th

The day you break my sisters heart

nesf

ferdi wrote:

this is why many mods become and remain as mods, it gives them the proverbial horn. why else would they stay doing a 'job' which eats into what little precious time they have left?

I'd agree with you if it was something that we were expected to approach as if it was a job but it's not. Moderators are not expected to make moderating on here a priority for them versus if it was a job we would be expected to do so.

scojones

I'm going to give my opinion on this, not that it matters or will make any difference.

Maybe, just maybe this is because of the sheer volume of traffic on After Hours, but on that forum there are several users (if not more) who do the "back seat modding" thing, and to be honest I am grateful for it. It is, however, only in relation to threads blatantly being in the wrong forum, and the back seat modding is a combination of reported posts and posts in the threads which are misplaced informing the OP of where it should have went.

Would I ever ban a user for this? Not in your lifetime.

However, if a user was consistently telling me to edit posts, merge threads, and lock threads then I would not be happy about it. If I think a post needs to be edited, a thread merged/locked then I will do it myself without having to be told to do so. I can form my own opinion and performing these actions are at my own discretion. All moderators moderate differently, a moved thread for one mod might be a locked thread for another, and it is eventually up to the moderator to decide what the best course of action is - they know their job and they are capable of doing it.

Now if the forum is being under moderated then I can understand why a user would consistently make suggestions for the control of threads.

Hell, you can accuse me of doing the EXACT same thing with the Horse Racing forum prior to being made a moderator of that forum. My reason for doing so was because I felt it was being under moderated at the time (and it was, Hobart was not around much and he subsequently added two mods of the forum) and certain actions needed to be carried out to stop the forum from becoming utter filth.

In my opinion back seat modding is not a banable offense. Is it in the paranormal charter? However, it can be written off under the "consistently annoying / abusing a moderator" card.

I think this is very harsh, and I don't think 6th should be banned in this instance. Sure, back seat modding can be annoying but I'm sure if 6th did not do any back seat modding the forum would be in a worse state than it is now.

A compromise would be to unban 6th on the promise that he does not perform any more back seat modding in the forum. If after x amount of time the forum is in a worse state than it is now, this should be highlighted on feedback, and depending on the feedback from the regulars and the mods, he should be allowed to make forum suggestions again (a nice label for back seat modding).

I am aware that 6th is very opinionated, and honestly 6th if I were you I would conduct myself in an appropriate manner. Shouting "bullsh!t" to responses on here would make me not want to unban you at all. Relax.

GuanYin

Ok. First of all, anyone who thinks I'm not present in the background reading Paranormal is way off the mark. As I said when steve came on board, my posting will be infrequent, my contribution will be less, but I'll still be watching over the forum and I am.

Secondly, I merged the threads. Was a fair enough request and I haven't actually gotten one from you in a while, but Steve may get more. You do tend to throw weight about on threads and at times seem to think that you are in a position to direct other posters. This is undesirable, especially concerning newer posters, but I have let it go because on the whole, you're very involved in the community revolving around the forum, while I am not, and I felt it appropriate to let Steve decide if he was happy with it.

Regarding the "other" thread. That is what I take issue with. I have a very hard time telling who is a serious poster and who isn't. I'll use mod tools such as mupcheck or Asok(tm) to check up on suspected trolls before acting. 9 times out of 10, suspicions on the nature of the post or username are correct but the person I'm concerned about, especially in such a community orientated forum, is the 1/10 that we might come down hard on who was posting in ernest.

Your approach doesn't employ any sort of research, you just take in who you like and dismiss or even mildly flame those you don't. I have warned you about this in the past - although it was a while back now.

If you don't like the look of a post or you suspect the poster, you have the option of reporting the post. Either way, the one way to really make the situation worse for everyone, is to post on the thread. You seem to need to have your voice or opinion heard everywhere. This isn't a desirable trait, even for a mod.

To put it simply, if you have nothing to contribute to the topic at hand, don't post and situations like this won't arise.

To me here you were on thin ice after the "back seat moderating" in the supposed troll thread. You sealed your fate when you completely ignored the point stevmu made to you almost immediately after. The thread merge request in itself, was fair enough, but in light of your overall attitude, I'd say you probably escaped the earlier offence and then pushed your luck too far and had steve reconsider the situation on the whole. In my mind, you got fair warning on how to conduct yourself with regards back seat modding and you ignored it.

This is stevemu's call and I trust his judgement, when he has been unsure about conflicts of interest, he has specifically contacted the other mods with his concerns so I have no doubt that he is in good standing about the reason for the ban in this case.

padser

Neither 6th nor Stevemu seem to have said (unless I missed it) whether or not 6th was ever told before not to backseat mod.

If he wasn't specifically asked not to, and Stoners comments about Stevemu previously welcoming these suggestions then it seems incredibly harsh to ban 6th indefinitely for the 'transgression'.

Unless 6th was explicitely told that he would be banned for it I can't really see how it could be justified.

Blowfish

padser wrote:

If he wasn't specifically asked not to, and Stoners comments about Stevemu previously welcoming these suggestions then it seems incredibly harsh to ban 6th indefinitely for the 'transgression'.

He is banned for an unspecified length not an indefinite one.

6th

psi wrote:

Secondly, I merged the threads. Was a fair enough request and I haven't actually gotten one from you in a while, but Steve may get more.

He hasn't, I tend to pm you before Steven because seeing as I know him it might seem inappropriate to ask him when its as easy to ask you. The one thread I did pm Stevenmu about was asking him to talk to Theadydal about moving a thread over to Spirituality after discussing it with Theadydal myself.

psi wrote:

You do tend to throw weight about on threads and at times seem to think that you are in a position to direct other posters.

Thing is that I am in a position that I know about most threads in the Forum from being so involved. I've nevver receieved a complaint for pointing a new user to a thread that might help them. Has anyone ever reported a post of mine where I was trying to be helpful?

psi wrote:

you're very involved in the community revolving around the forum, while I am not, and I felt it appropriate to let Steve decide if he was happy with it.

Stevenmu has proved in the past that he is not capable of modding me fairly but I've now passed that over to the admins.

psi wrote:

Regarding the "other" thread. That is what I take issue with. I have a very hard time telling who is a serious poster and who isn't. I'll use mod tools such as mupcheck or Asok(tm) to check up on suspected trolls before acting. 9 times out of 10, suspicions on the nature of the post or username are correct but the person I'm concerned about, especially in such a community orientated forum, is the 1/10 that we might come down hard on who was posting in ernest.

I did report the post but taking that it could be genuine I asked about the situation and suggested that elements of it might lead people to believe the poster was having a laugh.

psi wrote:

Your approach doesn't employ any sort of research, you just take in who you like and dismiss or even mildly flame those you don't. I have warned you about this in the past - although it was a while back now.

I also checked and saw that the poster (with the new start date and questionable username) had started one other thread about genital piercings which had been deleted - I did do my research.

psi wrote:

You seem to need to have your voice or opinion heard everywhere. This isn't a desirable trait, even for a mod.

Yes I have an opinion on alot of thread in the forum but can anyone argue that I dont have a genuine interest in any or all of those topics?

psi wrote:

To put it simply, if you have nothing to contribute to the topic at hand, don't post and situations like this won't arise.

As I said I did have something to add to 'that' thread and if you take a look you will see that I made other commments which were appropriate to the topic. Unlike some of the posters who escaped a ban.

psi wrote:

To me here you were on thin ice after the "back seat moderating" in the supposed troll thread. You sealed your fate when you completely ignored the point stevmu made to you almost immediately after. The thread merge request in itself, was fair enough, but in light of your overall attitude, I'd say you probably escaped the earlier offence and then pushed your luck too far and had steve reconsider the situation on the whole. In my mind, you got fair warning on how to conduct yourself with regards back seat modding and you ignored it.

If/When this ban is lifted I have no doubt that there will come times when I have other suggestions so with this is mind am I such a danger or nuisence that a perm ban is called for?

psi wrote:

This is stevemu's call and I trust his judgement, when he has been unsure about conflicts of interest, he has specifically contacted the other mods with his concerns so I have no doubt that he is in good standing about the reason for the ban in this case.

You trust his judgement which is fine but when he hestidly banned me last time for a personal issue he didnt ask any of the other mods before weilding his modship. That ban was lifted and Steven admitted he had modded me unfairly. I believe whatever the issue steven has with me lead him to ban me not my back seat modding which many have acknowledged keeps the forum thicking over nicely.

6th

I wonder how many posters Steven has banned since being a mod of paranormal? I know he's not ban happy in general so is it that I'm doing something so wrong as to get two bans?

BlitzKrieg

the real reason for 6th's banning is of course




hey 6th (waves!)

comer_97

that picture has made me feel a little sick!

Gordon

6th wrote:

I know he's not ban happy in general so is it that I'm doing something so wrong as to get two bans?

Well, you don't seem willing to understand the reasons so what does it matter?

Example:

6th wrote:

psi wrote:

You seem to need to have your voice or opinion heard everywhere. This isn't a desirable trait, even for a mod.

Yes I have an opinion on alot of thread in the forum but can anyone argue that I dont have a genuine interest in any or all of those topics?

You are not having any empathy, which is strange for a regular contributor to the paranormal forum imo.