Time to prepare for a United Ireland even if it does not happen?

darkman2

Hi,


Im sure like me your a bit wary of hearing about our freinds to the North however some serious issues are going to have to be addressed in the next few years that will really impact on us. Namely the likelyhood that either:

a: the breakup of the UK is getting closer should Scotland opt for a referendum on Independence and this will leave us with little choice but to take care of Northern Ireland in a way we have not previously done (this is under the reasonable assumption of course that once Scotland leaves the Union England will call time on the UK and only have a loose union with Wales) Such a development in Scotland would undoubtedly have dramatic consequences for Northern Ireland which is not a viable state on its own. Under such an outcome I can only see the English really pushing for joint sovereignty or that NI leave the UK altogether.

b: That a vote on Northern Ireland's posistion in the UK is held and won by a nationalist majority. This may be unlikely for the next 10 or 15 years at the very least.

Im not implying here I want a UI or otherwise that NI should be in the UK. My question is that with such outcomes on the distant horizon should we have a plan now based on what will need to happen here to sustain Northern Ireland financially, politically and militarily. This has huge relevance for the future of this country and its hardly been debated yet. I think to not even have a plan should the 'doomsday' outcome occur in Northern Ireland would be very short sighted. Given a UI may never happen - I really think we should have a major plan ready just in case.

What do you all think?

P.S I dont mean a major plan debated in a way that antagonises Unionists but one quietly drawn up between the two goverments just in case.........

wes

Never a bad idea to plan for such things. May never happen, but better to be prepared I reckon.

flogen

darkman2 wrote:

Hi,


Im sure like me your a bit wary of hearing about our freinds to the North however some serious issues are going to have to be addressed in the next few years that will really impact on us. Namely the likelyhood that either:

a: the breakup of the UK is getting closer should Scotland opt for a referendum on Independence and this will leave us with little choice but to take care of Northern Ireland in a way we have not previously done (this is under the reasonable assumption of course that once Scotland leaves the Union England will call time on the UK and only have a loose union with Wales) Such a development in Scotland would undoubtedly have dramatic consequences for Northern Ireland which is not a viable state on its own. Under such an outcome I can only see the English really pushing for joint sovereignty or that NI leave the UK altogether.

Assuming the SNP get the majority in Scotland and call a referendum that results in a majority in favour of Scottish independence, then yes, I agree that the implications for Northern Ireland will be somewhat significant (especially given the Unionist's preference for West/East co-operation above North/South co-operation).

That said Unionists don't oppose Irish unity because they want to be in the same group as their Scottish buddies and while any change in the NI/Scotland relationship will always create complications it won't change the ideological beliefs of the majority of NI's citizens... That said I do think an independent Scotland would a) create stronger ties with RoI, as we're their poster-boys for independence and b) move closer to the EU and adopt the Euro, both of which will create issues for NI.

b: That a vote on Northern Ireland's posistion in the UK is held and won by a nationalist majority. This may be unlikely for the next 10 or 15 years at the very least.

There were fears of nationalists "outbreeding" the Unionist population a few years ago, but the most recent census dispelled that - if it is going to happen it won't be for a considerably long time... far more than 10-15 years.

I personally think Scottish independence will put more pressure on the Unionist argument but there is only one thing that will lead to a United Ireland and that's when people in NI believe they stand to gain more in Ireland than they do in Britain.... that kind of debate won't even be heard, let along proven or disproven, for a long time yet.

Oh - and Wales and England will remain just as close as they do now, and the English Government would gladly hand NI over to the RoI tomorrow if they had the mandate, so neither of those things are issues.

P.S I dont mean a major plan debated in a way that antagonises Unionists but one quietly drawn up between the two goverments just in case.........

What makes you think that one doesn't already exist?

darkman2

flogen wrote:

What makes you think that one doesn't already exist?

Interesting. You may be right. Certainly the way we are kind of budgeting funds to NI at the moment may suggest the first tentative steps to eventual withdrawal from NI on the British side in anticipation of a future successful vote for Unity. What better way to do it then introduce the South in financially and gradually build up the contribution? Having said that, that could be a little far fetched. I agree with your comments about Scotland. There is no way in my view they would consider taking on Northern Ireland. Even if they tried it would seriously annoy us, something which as you say they are unlikely to do because there is a great relationship between the ROI and Scotland anyway and I dont think they would intentionally want to sour that. Unionists would undoubtedly be 'lost' if Scotland gained independence. So I agree with you - we would have to show them they have more to gain with us politically, financially and socially. One thing I will say though is that many Unionists genuinely have very distorted views about us in the South. Like they would be oppressed and all that. These ridiculous attitudes really need to be countered. That will take a long time on its own. For Unity everyone would have to believe that the resulting society would be all-inclusive. Major eductaion strategy needed in that respect I think.

marco murphy

I believe we're moving forward to a UI. As darkman said, some unionists have distorted views about us southern monsters . That has to be addressed, and events such as Bertie shaking Paisleys hand help things move forward IMO.
The assembly will be up and running soon, cross border buisness is on the increase, all in all it's looking good, and all making a base for unity to take place IMO.

flogen

darkman2 wrote:

Interesting. You may be right. Certainly the way we are kind of budgeting funds to NI at the moment may suggest the first tentative steps to eventual withdrawal from NI on the British side in anticipation of a future successful vote for Unity. What better way to do it then introduce the South in financially and gradually build up the contribution? Having said that, that could be a little far fetched. I agree with your comments about Scotland. There is no way in my view they would consider taking on Northern Ireland.

Huh? Who said anything about Scotland taking on NI? They'd have a hard time becoming economically viable by themselves, there ain't a chance in hell that they'd strap some extra weight to their backs for good measure.

Unionists would undoubtedly be 'lost' if Scotland gained independence.

I disagree - their argument would be a little weaker, but they would be far from lost.

One thing I will say though is that many Unionists genuinely have very distorted views about us in the South. Like they would be oppressed and all that. These ridiculous attitudes really need to be countered. That will take a long time on its own.

Yeah - but we really showed them how mature we are with that whole Love Ulster thing... (obviously that was far from representative, but it was allowed to happen, and that's enough to make things even worse).

For Unity everyone would have to believe that the resulting society would be all-inclusive. Major eductaion strategy needed in that respect I think.

What do you suggest? A new curriculum in NI? We're just as mis-educated about Unionist culture and NI as they are about Republicanism and the RoI... what we need to do is get on with building a viable and logical relationship with NI and stop trying to maneuver them and us with a view to creating unity - that just breeds paranoia and mistrust. How about we as a country just get on with our lives and let people in NI decide for themselves if joining us is right or wrong... sure beats trying to "re-educate" them until they come up with the "right" answer.

darkman2

Poblachtach wrote:

I believe we're moving forward to a UI. As darkman said, some unionists have distorted views about us southern monsters . That has to be addressed, and events such as Bertie shaking Paisleys hand help things move forward IMO.
The assembly will be up and running soon, cross border buisness is on the increase, all in all it's looking good, and all making a base for unity to take place IMO.

Do you remember what David Trimble said about us only a couple of years ago - 'pathetic, sectarian, mono-ethnic, mono-cultural state' - make you wonder what planet these guys are living on. It was also an incredibly Ironic statement that coming from Northern Ireland. However joking aside. That attitude exists. Most Unionists have never been here. Its like were diseased or something. Something has to be done about that.

darkman2

flogen wrote:

Huh? Who said anything about Scotland taking on NI? They'd have a hard time becoming economically viable by themselves, there ain't a chance in hell that they'd strap some extra weight to their backs for good measure.



I disagree - their argument would be a little weaker, but they would be far from lost.



Yeah - but we really showed them how mature we are with that whole Love Ulster thing... (obviously that was far from representative, but it was allowed to happen, and that's enough to make things even worse).



What do you suggest? A new curriculum in NI? We're just as mis-educated about Unionist culture and NI as they are about Republicanism and the RoI... what we need to do is get on with building a viable and logical relationship with NI and stop trying to maneuver them and us with a view to creating unity - that just breeds paranoia and mistrust. How about we as a country just get on with our lives and let people in NI decide for themselves if joining us is right or wrong... sure beats trying to "re-educate" them until they come up with the "right" answer.

Sorry I should have been clearer. Ive just heard rumours that Unionists wanted Scotland to have them if the UK disappeared. Not that you said it at all.

TBH I think Unionists really do need to be educated about us, in particular this society today - not 60 years ago when we were under the thumb of the Catholic Church. I definately think Unionist attitudes toward us is simple lack of education. I can see no other reason for it. I mean some of the views there are simply incredible.


Love Ulster - Lets be honest they came with the intention of showing Unionists what animals we are down here - they succeeded not because those rioting gave a damn about them but because some Dublin scumbags wanted a new pair of runners. They took that back up there claiming this is ROI today.

About how Unionists would feel about Scotland leaving the Union. TBH I think their argument would be more then a little weaker.

marco murphy

Yeah - but we really showed them how mature we are with that whole Love Ulster thing... (obviously that was far from representative, but it was allowed to happen, and that's enough to make things even worse).

We can do more good things than bad. Hopefully than can be forgotten about.

Do you remember what David Trimble said about us only a couple of years ago - 'pahtetic, sectarian, mono-ethnic, mono-cultural state' - make you wonder what planet these guys are living on. It was also an incredibly Ironic statement that coming from Northern Ireland. However joking aside. That attitude exists. Most Unionists have never been here. Its like were diseased or something. Something has to be done about that.

Unionist Outreach is a big part of Sinn Feins goings on. It's productive. It's very humbling to see Paisley sitting close to Adams, then shaking Berties hand. Paisley has a lot of supporters behind him (obviously) and he needs to take off that bigoted mask and move forward. He has the power to talk to a broad amount of unionists. Progress is being made daily. Eventually, hopefully, unionists will see our true colours. How or when I dont know.


EDIT : I suppose a start could be joining up on Unionist forums and make a start.

darkman2

Poblachtach wrote:

We can do more good things than bad. Hopefully than can be forgotten about.


Unionist Outreach is a big part of Sinn Feins goings on. It's productive. It's very humbling to see Paisley sitting close to Adams, then shaking Berties hand. Paisley has a lot of supporters behind him (obviously) and he needs to take off that bigoted mask and move forward. He has the power to talk to a broad amount of unionists. Progress is being made daily. Eventually, hopefully, unionists will see our true colours. How or when I dont know.


EDIT : I suppose a start could be joining up on Unionist forums and make a start.

I actually wonder why the Northern forums on Boards dont seem to do much business Not interested I suppose. It would be good to see genuine unionists from NI getting their own views across. Maybe then people would understand a bit better.

marco murphy

I've just signed up on one, It should be encouraged. It's something that needs to be done.

darkman2

Poblachtach wrote:

I've just signed up on one, It should be encouraged. It's something that needs to be done.

I know of one site but its a bigoted, twisted one where Nationalists are not even allowed to post. I would not want to anyway tbh.

flogen

darkman2 wrote:

Sorry I should have been clearer. Ive just heard rumours that Unionists wanted Scotland to have them if the UK disappeared. Not that you said it at all.

I remember there being some confusion when the suggestion was made that if Scotland jumps, NI should go with them - as far as I know that was someone saying that NI should go independent at the same time as Scotland, but not for the two of them to become one single independent state.

TBH I think Unionists really do need to be educated about us, in particular this society today - not 60 years ago when we were under the thumb of the Catholic Church. I definately think Unionist attitudes toward us is simple lack of education. I can see no other reason for it. I mean some of the views there are simply incredible.

I've seen plenty to suggest the same amount of ignorance on the other side too - I know very little about the history behind Ulster-Scots, and I bet most people just assume Unionists are only unionists because they love the Crown, which isn't true.

Love Ulster - Lets be honest they came with the intention of showing Unionists what animals we are down here

That's arguable, but even if they came looking for a reaction, people here were stupid enough to give them one.

They succeeded not because those rioting gave a damn about them but because some Dublin scumbags wanted a new pair of runners. They took that back up there claiming this is ROI today.

Actually I failed to see a single member of that march saying anything negative about RoI, and I personally was surprised.
The Gardaí were praised and stories of passers by coming over and chatting to the marchers, welcoming them and having a chin-wag were told a few times - Jeffery Donaldson was on the news saying how he knew these idiots weren't representative of the people of Ireland etc.

About how Unionists would feel about Scotland leaving the Union. TBH I think their argument would be more then a little weaker.

We could argue about the exact weakness of the Unionist argument in light of Scottish independence all day, but the fact is that it would be weakened, I just don't believe it would be enough to speed up Irish unity - the death of extremism and the arrival of rationality within the North/South debate is the only thing that has any chance of achieving that.

marco murphy

Well the one I've just signed up on appears to think we're all IRA men haha.
I put forward a few questions, lets hope i don't get banned.

marco murphy

Actually I failed to see a single member of that march saying anything negative about RoI, and I personally was surprised

Nah just carrying banners glorifying the amount of catholics killed here and there.

darkman2

Poblachtach wrote:

Well the one I've just signed up on appears to think we're all IRA men haha.
I put forward a few questions, lets hope i don't get banned.

This particular website would not begin with 'c' by any chance?;) Would not touch it with a barge pole tbh. They can keep the hatred and bigotry. Some people you cannot talk to.

flogen

Poblachtach wrote:

Nah just carrying banners glorifying the amount of catholics killed here and there.

Really? Perhaps you can enlighten me on that one - I know there was an issue of the hypocrisy that existed in the march, that is that Unionist victims were mourned (and the IRA attacked for these deaths) while Nationalist victims were ignored (and Loyalist groups let off the hook by them), but I don't remember anything about glorifying dead catholics.

darkman2

flogen wrote:

Really? Perhaps you can enlighten me on that one - I know there was an issue of the hypocrisy that existed in the march, that is that Unionist victims were mourned (and the IRA attacked for these deaths) while Nationalist victims were ignored (and Loyalist groups let off the hook by them), but I don't remember anything about glorifying dead catholics.

In fairness flogen, it has to be said they did come for a reaction. I would of liked to see their attitude on the bus crossing the border on the way to Dublin. I dont believe they were 'mourning'. However I do have symphathy with your point about good comments from Unionist politicians and tbh Willie Frazier (the organiser) only got a handful of votes in the recent election. So maybe I was wrong but I wonder what 'normal' unionists in the North actually thought?

johnnyskeleton

darkman2 wrote:

Hi,a: the breakup of the UK is getting closer should Scotland opt for a referendum on Independence and this will leave us with little choice but to take care of Northern Ireland in a way we have not previously done (this is under the reasonable assumption of course that once Scotland leaves the Union England will call time on the UK and only have a loose union with Wales) Such a development in Scotland would undoubtedly have dramatic consequences for Northern Ireland which is not a viable state on its own. Under such an outcome I can only see the English really pushing for joint sovereignty or that NI leave the UK altogether.

1) Take care of Northern Ireland? For over a century, up until about 10 years ago NI was richer than ROI, then we had a boom that could well blow up in our faces, so what gives us the right to patronise NI? They have better infrastructure than us, great 3rd level education, etc. If anything, if there is peace it is a great investment opportunity. It's not like we're rich West Germany taking on the East after years of communist oppression and exploitation.

2) I disagree that it is not a viable state on its own. If it was an independent state it is not going to simply collapse, it would still have funding from the EU. It is a country of around 1.5m people. Andora is not economically feasible, Montenegro is not economically feasible (yet they still manage it), but NI is much bigger than them. I think when the split happened in around 1920(?), economic viablity was important. That is why they had 6 counties instead of 4. But in the modern age where large armies etc. are not essential, I don't see why it is not viable.

3) When Paisely came to meet Bertie, he said something to the effect of "I look forward to co-operation between our respective countries" i.e. making it clear that NI was a separate country. There is, I think, a clear intention that NI would be independent rather than part of ROI.

darkman2 wrote:

b: That a vote on Northern Ireland's position in the UK is held and won by a nationalist majority. This may be unlikely for the next 10 or 15 years at the very least.

I don't think that if the majority of people in NI were nationalist that we would see a united Ireland. Originally, Unionists wanted to run the entire Island, and I don't think that they would allow a united Ireland. They would, I imagine, find some way to justify not giving up some corner of the Island.

darkman2 wrote:

I’m not implying here I want a UI or otherwise that NI should be in the UK. My question is that with such outcomes on the distant horizon should we have a plan now based on what will need to happen here to sustain Northern Ireland financially, politically and militarily. This has huge relevance for the future of this country and its hardly been debated yet. I think to not even have a plan should the 'doomsday' outcome occur in Northern Ireland would be very short sighted. Given a UI may never happen - I really think we should have a major plan ready just in case.

Notwithstanding the above, and my view that a United Ireland is not certain and even if it is, it's a very LONG way off, I don't think there is that much to plan for. Change over of currency, transfer schools over to DoE over say 10 years, health can merge pretty easily, laws are very similar, passports and other minor details can be easily integrated, and the electoral constituencies may need to be changed, but what’s new?

If France and Germany can merge relatively easily, I don't see why both Irelands can't. Especially since the EU imposes its will on the whole Island of Ireland.

So to plan for such a far off eventuality is a bit premature, and while it is fine for us on boards, I don't think the government should waste its time and money on it.

marco murphy

This particular website would not begin with 'c' by any chance? Would not touch it with a barge pole tbh. They can keep the hatred and bigotry. Some people you cannot talk to.

No however I think I know the one. I dont know how it is allowed on the net to be honest.

Really? Perhaps you can enlighten me on that one - I know there was an issue of the hypocrisy that existed in the march, that is that Unionist victims were mourned (and the IRA attacked for these deaths) while Nationalist victims were ignored (and Loyalist groups let off the hook by them), but I don't remember anything about glorifying dead catholics.

Lets be realistic. The scumbags who rioted did'nt represent Ireland, or southerners if you like.
Just like Willie Frazer and his line up of Loyalist Flute Bands dont represent Northern Unionists. (As highlighted by darkman, Mr Frazer did'nt exactly top the poll in his constituency.)
This man supported Brit collusion with Loyalist Paramilitaries and praised Billy Wright ona number of occasions. The man is an advocate of hatred. Im not suprised some realtives of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings were protesting against him and his entourage.

marco murphy

This particular website would not begin with 'c' by any chance? Would not touch it with a barge pole tbh. They can keep the hatred and bigotry. Some people you cannot talk to.

No however I think I know the one. I dont know how it is allowed on the net to be honest.

Really? Perhaps you can enlighten me on that one - I know there was an issue of the hypocrisy that existed in the march, that is that Unionist victims were mourned (and the IRA attacked for these deaths) while Nationalist victims were ignored (and Loyalist groups let off the hook by them), but I don't remember anything about glorifying dead catholics.

Lets be realistic. The scumbags who rioted did'nt represent Ireland, or southerners if you like.
Just like Willie Frazer and his line up of Loyalist Flute Bands dont represent Northern Unionists. (As highlighted by darkman, Mr Frazer did'nt exactly top the poll in his constituency.)
This man supported Brit collusion with Loyalist Paramilitaries and praised Billy Wright ona number of occasions. The man is an advocate of hatred. Im not suprised some realtives of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings were protesting against him and his entourage.

purple'n'gold

Some people on here seem to think that it will be only a matter of changing currency and the colour of our post boxes and hey! It’s a united Ireland folks! It won’t happen for many many years. Never forget, a sizable portion of the protestant population of Northern Ireland despise the people of the republic. They hate Catholics, period, and will never be persuaded that this is now a secular state.

marco murphy

They hate Catholics, period, and will never be persuaded that this is now a secular state.

As there are catholics that hate protestants. Get over it.

flogen

darkman2 wrote:

In fairness flogen, it has to be said they did come for a reaction. I would of liked to see their attitude on the bus crossing the border on the way to Dublin. I dont believe they were 'mourning'. However I do have symphathy with your point about good comments from Unionist politicians and tbh Willie Frazier (the organiser) only got a handful of votes in the recent election. So maybe I was wrong but I wonder what 'normal' unionists in the North actually thought?

I thought that when the march was announced, but if they were looking for a reaction to justify their anti-Ireland view, then they certainly did a terrible job in taking advantage of the one they got.
As I said before, though, even if they were looking for a reaction, their attempts were dependent on stupid people doing stupid things - a handful of people were only happy to fit that bill.

Poblachtach wrote:

Lets be realistic. The scumbags who rioted did'nt represent Ireland, or southerners if you like.

Agreed.

Just like Willie Frazer and his line up of Loyalist Flute Bands dont represent Northern Unionists. (As highlighted by darkman, Mr Frazer did'nt exactly top the poll in his constituency.)

Agreed.

This man supported Brit collusion with Loyalist Paramilitaries and praised Billy Wright ona number of occasions. The man is an advocate of hatred. Im not suprised some realtives of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings were protesting against him and his entourage.

Frazer certainly is a hypocritic, and the personfication of everything that's wrong with Northern Ireland (not his PoV, but his blinkered stance on everything).

With all that out of the way, where were the signs glorifying the murder of Catholics in Northern Ireland?

LordSutch

darkman2 wrote:

Hi, Im sure like me your a bit wary of hearing about our freinds to the North however some serious issues are going to have to be addressed in the next few years that will really impact on us. Namely the likelyhood that either:

a: the breakup of the UK is getting closer should Scotland opt for a referendum on Independence and this will leave us with little choice but to take care of Northern Ireland in a way we have not previously done (this is under the reasonable assumption of course that once Scotland leaves the Union England will call time on the UK and only have a loose union with Wales) Such a development in Scotland would undoubtedly have dramatic consequences for Northern Ireland which is not a viable state on its own. Under such an outcome I can only see the English really pushing for joint sovereignty or that NI leave the UK altogether.

Wow Darkman, thats some conclusion you have arrived at, so lets start with Scotland leaving the Union, it may leave? although I would be very surprised if it does, & time will tell, but even if it does leave the Union surely Westminster would then be in a far better position to pump more money into Northern Ireland as a direct result of the savings made from the loss of Scotland, and where would the Royal Navy birth its Northern fleet once the Scottish Naval yards have gone? Northern Ireland I suggest & think of all the Extra Jobs for the North too, hence making the North even more integral to the New UK (excluding Scotland) ..... hypothetically speaking of course

darkman2 wrote:

b: That a vote on Northern Ireland's posistion in the UK is held and won by a nationalist majority. This may be unlikely for the next 10 or 15 years at the very least.

As far as I am aware it might take Fifty to one hundred years to 'Out breed' the Unionist people, and even then you must take into account the fact that a sizeable number of Nationalists also wish to keep the North within the UK! and then there are the impondrables like 'How would the Poles or the Chinese vote'? and the most interesting oddity that I have heard recently 'Would the North join with Scotland' and create a New Political Union? (Scotland + Northern Ireland) ............ interesting eh

darkman2 wrote:

Im not implying here I want a UI or otherwise that NI should be in the UK. My question is that with such outcomes on the distant horizon should we have a plan now based on what will need to happen here to sustain Northern Ireland financially, politically and militarily. This has huge relevance for the future of this country and its hardly been debated yet. I think to not even have a plan should the 'doomsday' outcome occur in Northern Ireland would be very short sighted. Given a UI may never happen - I really think we should have a major plan ready just in case.

I suspect that if a so called 'United Ireland' was on the cards we would all see it coming down the tracks decades before it arrives, and even if it did, I suspect that our National Anthem and our Green White & Orange flag would be some of the first victims of a New Union between North & South.

darkman2 wrote:

What do you all think?

P.S I dont mean a major plan debated in a way that antagonises Unionists but one quietly drawn up between the two goverments just in case.........

Unionists always feel under seige because they are under seige not so much from the South anymore but from Sinn Fein who are now going to do their utmost to Extract the North from the UK bit by Bit, day by day week by week, and I suspect that this will make the Unionist/ British people of the North even more British & more unlikely to surrender...............

Dont Panic Darkman.

darkman2

ArthurF wrote:

Wow Darkman, thats some conclusion you have arrived at, so lets start with Scotland leaving the Union, it may leave? although I would be very surprised if it does, & time will tell, but even if it does leave the Union surely Westminster would then be in a far better position to pump more money into Northern Ireland as a direct result of the savings made from the loss of Scotland, and where would the Royal Navy birth its Northern fleet once the Scottish Naval yards have gone? Northern Ireland I suggest & think of all the Extra Jobs for the North too, hence making the North even more integral to the New UK (excluding Scotland) ..... hypothetically speaking of course



As far as I am aware it might take Fifty to one hundred years to 'Out breed' the Unionist people, and even then you must take into account the fact that a sizeable number of Nationalists also wish to keep the North within the UK! and then there are the impondrables like 'How would the Poles or the Chinese vote'? and the most interesting oddity that I have heard recently 'Would the North join with Scotland' and create a New Political Union? (Scotland + Northern Ireland) ............ interesting eh



I suspect that if a so called 'United Ireland' was on the cards we would all see it coming down the tracks decades before it arrives, and even if it did, I suspect that our National Anthem and our Green White & Orange flag would be some of the first victims of a New Union between North & South.



Unionists always feel under seige because they are under seige not so much from the South anymore but from Sinn Fein who are now going to do their utmost to Extract the North from the UK bit by Bit, day by day week by week, and I suspect that this will make the Unionist/ British people of the North even more British & more unlikely to surrender...............

Dont Panic Darkman.

Im well aware of your political persausion on this forum but if you think a newly independent Scotland would have any interest or capacity to take on board Northern Ireland your seriously mistaken. They have very good relations with us and genuinely are not stupid people. Neither are the British btw. If you think, after years of trying to sort the North out, the British would militarise it any further your living in cloud cuckoo land. The British will off-load Northern Ireland shortly after Scottish independence. Ive no doubt about that at all. Scottish independence is the ultimate excuse. It invalidates most of unionisms arguments.

BTW who in gods name has talked about 'surrender' here? Dont tell me you live in the 1600's too

LordSutch

Ergo; the Good Friday Agreement is for the Bin? does'nt the GFA say that for as long as the majority of people living in Northern Ireland wish to remain part of the UK, then they will do so?

P.S. This whole thread is in Cloud-Cuckoo-land, from top to bottom hence my smilies

darkman2

ArthurF wrote:

Ergo; the Good Friday Agreement is for the Bin?

Doesnt the GFA say that for as long as the majority of people living in Northern Ireland wish to remain part of the UK, then they will do so.

Of course but it is obsolete if the UK does not exist;)

marco murphy

With all that out of the way, where were the signs glorifying the murder of Catholics in Northern Ireland?

Well take a look at the following bass drum. Iam happy it was'nt shown on TV, imagine the response then?

Rising Sons Loyalist Flute Band E.Belfast
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9484/shortstrand11120706059by0.jpg

Apologies for not knowing my Loyalist Bands off by heart but have a look at the loyalist flags on this banner.
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4876/normaldsc00088bj0.jpg

Oh and hey, another band that visited Dublin, the Youth UVF!!
(Pic not uploading, but some nice decorative UVF flags.)

Unionists always feel under seige because they are under seige not so much from the South anymore but from Sinn Fein who are now going to do their utmost to Extract the North from the UK bit by Bit, day by day week by week, and I suspect that this will make the Unionist/ British people of the North even more British & more unlikely to surrender...............

How do you get that impression? Unionists voted overwhelmingly to see the DUP and Sinn Fein in power together. Hardly a sign of feeling ''under seige''.

Dont Panic Darkman.

Eh....

ninty9er

ArthurF wrote:

Ergo; the Good Friday Agreement is for the Bin? does'nt the GFA say that for as long as the majority of people living in Northern Ireland wish to remain part of the UK, then they will do so?

P.S. This whole thread is in Cloud-Cuckoo-land, from top to bottom hence my smilies

What about allowing the people of the Republic to parttake in the referendum, to see if changes circumstances would see the Republic reject Northern Ireland's integration.


As recently as 2005, Bertie; as leader of Fianna Fáil - The Republican Party; said at the time he doesn't see even negotiations beginning for at least 10 years. Other Ministers such as Dermot Ahern are steadfast in their belief they will see a UI in their lifetime.

That said, there is a tiny (less than 1%), but growing minority of people like me in the party who were asked to join and "bring your own ideas".

I'm not for a Northern Ireland within the UK and I'm not for a 32 county Republic. People like myself are continuosly told Northern Ireland isn't a viable economic state...I'm sure the same could easily have been said about the Republic when we gained independence.

NI had a population of almost 1.7 million in 2001, so presumably it's now heading for 2 million. Luxumbourg, Malta and Iceland all have fractions of this population and are viable eceonmies....Innovation not population is what makes a country viable.

Of course we and Britain would have to offer support to the new fledgling state, and the EU might be a place to look to for support too??

marco murphy

I'm not for a Northern Ireland within the UK and I'm not for a 32 county Republic.

Being a member of a ''Republican Party'' just what are you for?