Time to prepare for a United Ireland even if it does not happen?

A Dub in Glasgo

Unionist = support for gerrymandered state? discrimination? murder? pogroms?

oscarBravo

Ulster9, how many times do I have to warn you about getting personal?

ADiG, you wouldn't consider it acceptable if someone came up with a comparable definition of "Republican" - how can you consider what you've posted to be acceptable?

LordSutch

Seems like you and I come from different sides of the fence Mr Dub in Glasgo, we both have our baggage & our different perspectives on things, but now the Big Man and Mr Maguinness are getting into bed together (metaphorically speaking of course) and hopefully they will provide a (miracle) and get along really well, and hopefully so to will the rest of us ~ but who knows .................................

darkman2

darkman2 wrote:

In the late 60's Unionists in the North embarked on a path of ethnic cleansing when Nationalists were being torched and burned out of thier homes when we had to setup refugee camps for them.

AF, you say you have fort-right Unionist views. Do you deny this crime occured in Northern Ireland by Unionists?

LordSutch

As a self proclaimed supporter of the Violent Republican Struggle (darkman2) would you agree that the prime objective of the Republican movement (North & South) has been to Ethnically cleanse the Protestant~Unionist~Orange~British people from this island?

Up until the late 1970s all children of 'Mixed marriages' in the South had by Law to be brought-up in the Roman Catholic Gaelic tradition ~ The perfect Ethnic cleansing tool as I can testify to........ seeing as us 'Prods' now make up something like 3% of the population in the South from a base of about 20% at the foundation of the state!

The term itself is quite a strong statement and not to be used lightly, so as regards "Unionists ethnically cleansing Roman Catholics in the North" I can quite categorically say with certainty & clarity "it never happened" (FACT).

darkman2

ArthurF wrote:

As a self proclaimed supporter of the Violent Republican Struggle (darkman2) would you agree that the prime objective of the Republican movement (North & South) has been to Ethnically cleanse the Protestant~Unionist~Orange~British people from this island?

Up until the late 1970s all children of 'Mixed marriages' in the South had by Law to be brought-up in the Roman Catholic Gaelic tradition ~ The perfect Ethnic cleansing tool as I can testify to........ seeing as us 'Prods' now make up something like 3% of the population in the South from a base of about 20% at the foundation of the state!

The term itself is quite a strong statement and not to be used lightly, so as regards "Unionists ethnically cleansing Roman Catholics in the North" I can quite categorically say with certainty & clarity "it never happened" (FACT).

My dear man you need to read the countless books written about the period. You are dellusioned if you beleive that never happened and BTW for the record I never said I supported the Republican movement. What I said was the IRA was justified in the late 60's and 70's because your community was committing an act of Ethnic cleansing in NI. Why do you think tens of thousands fled south of the border during the period. They were being torched and burned out of their homes by Loyalists with the full support of the 'Protestant Government for a Protestant people'. Your community is guilty of crimes against humanity in the North and your lucky you have the IRA as a smokescreen. Now they are out of the picture the real history of the North can be concentrated on - i.e who was to blame.

Fratton Fred

darkman2 wrote:

Now they are out of the picture the real history of the North can be concentrated on - i.e who was to blame.

Which is exactly how every single thread about NI ends up. "They did this so we are justified in doing that".

The two sides can throw **** at each other all day long and it doesn't solve anything. Both sides are guilty of unjustifiable attrocities, that is how it should be left.

Ulster9

ArthurF wrote:

I have no mask to slip, I am well known on these boards for my forthright Unionist opinions.

Fair enough ArthurF you are entitled to your views and good luck to you.I wasnt trying to get personnel as i was just suggesting you were nailing your colours clearly to the Mast.OscarBravo is a sensitive type, i think he was looking out for you.I have an Irish republican perspective on this and I think its fair to say we are not going to agree on a lot regarding the past.
I find these threads depressing because before i came onto this site a few weeks ago i was feeling quite positive because Unionists and Republicans despite their bloody past are making a break from the bitter past to build a better future for both communities.Its early days but i think it will work.Are you in favour of these developments?

Voipjunkie

ArthurF wrote:

Up until the late 1970s all children of 'Mixed marriages' in the South had by Law to be brought-up in the Roman Catholic Gaelic tradition ~ The perfect Ethnic cleansing tool as I can testify to........ seeing as us 'Prods' now make up something like 3% of the population in the South from a base of about 20% at the foundation of the state!

.

What law ??

are you confusing the law with rules of the catholic church

LordSutch

Ne Temere Papal decree (up to 1977) which required, in practice, that the children of mixed marriages all be raised as 'Roman Catholics' This drastically reduced all "Non RC" numbers and Protestants as a percentage of the population dropped from 20% to 6% in the immediate twenty-five year period after Independence ..............

The perfect ethnic cleansing tool really, (no blood) just make em disappear of the face of the earth!

I hate the term 'ethnic cleansing' anyway, but seeing as darkman2 has used this dramatic term (post #239) against the Good Unionist people of the North, I can only reply to the charges he makes, and I still say that the Unionist people of the North did NOT ethnically cleanse the Nationalist population of the North > the term does not lend itself to the accusations you are making darkman2.

LordSutch

Ulster9 wrote:

Fair enough ArthurF you are entitled to your views and good luck to you.I wasnt trying to get personnel as i was just suggesting you were nailing your colours clearly to the Mast.OscarBravo is a sensitive type, i think he was looking out for you.I have an Irish republican perspective on this and I think its fair to say we are not going to agree on a lot regarding the past.
I find these threads depressing because before i came onto this site a few weeks ago i was feeling quite positive because Unionists and Republicans despite their bloody past are making a break from the bitter past to build a better future for both communities. Its early days but i think it will work. Are you in favour of these developments?

Yes ~ I am in favour of these developments.

guinnessdrinker

Up until the late 1970s all children of 'Mixed marriages' in the South had by Law to be brought-up in the Roman Catholic Gaelic tradition

Not too familiar with that law either but you can hardly blame republicans for it!

I do agree with ArthurF in that I also dislike the term "ethnic cleansing" but there was refugee camps set up in the republic for catholics fleeing their homes in the North. I live not far from where one of these camps was set up.

darkman2

ArthurF wrote:

Ne Temere Papal decree (up to 1977) which required, in practice, that the children of mixed marriages all be raised as 'Roman Catholics' This drastically reduced all "Non RC" numbers and Protestants as a percentage of the population dropped from 20% to 6% in the immediate twenty-five year period after Independence ..............

The perfect ethnic cleansing tool really, (no blood) just make em disappear of the face of the earth!

I hate the term 'ethnic cleansing' anyway, but seeing as darkman2 has used this dramatic term (post #239) against the Good Unionist people of the North, I can only reply to the charges he makes, and I still say that the Unionist people of the North did NOT ethnically cleanse the Nationalist population of the North > the term does not lend itself to the accusations you are making darkman2.

So what would you call what the 'good' Unionist people did? You have to come to terms with the attrocities commited by your own community before you critiscise others. For your information im the biggest critic of SF/IRA there is but I know bloody well there are two sides to this coin. The fact your not willing to admit that is disappointing.

DublinWriter

ArthurF wrote:

Ne Temere Papal decree (up to 1977) which required, in practice, that the children of mixed marriages all be raised as 'Roman Catholics' This drastically reduced all "Non RC" numbers and Protestants as a percentage of the population dropped from 20% to 6% in the immediate twenty-five year period after Independence ..............

Sheesh ArthurF, since when did Irish Catholics ever bother about what The Pope told them to do?

Do check out the following thread for the views of modern Irish Protestants (some of them are self-proclaimed Nationalists, shock horror!):

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055083556&goto=newpost

I think the important thing to take home is that Protestant does not always mean Loyalist and Catholic does not always mean Nationalist.

Mixing religion with politics is always like mixing a can of petrol with a match.

I can honestly say that religion is not a devisive factor down here in the ROI. You'd really need to be naked and painted blue for people to give you a second look. Sadly however, this is not the case in N.I. and parts of Scotland.

Flex

ArthurF wrote:

Ne Temere Papal decree (up to 1977) which required, in practice, that the children of mixed marriages all be raised as 'Roman Catholics' This drastically reduced all "Non RC" numbers and Protestants as a percentage of the population dropped from 20% to 6% in the immediate twenty-five year period after Independence ..............

The perfect ethnic cleansing tool really, (no blood) just make em disappear of the face of the earth!

I hate the term 'ethnic cleansing' anyway, but seeing as darkman2 has used this dramatic term (post #239) against the Good Unionist people of the North, I can only reply to the charges he makes, and I still say that the Unionist people of the North did NOT ethnically cleanse the Nationalist population of the North > the term does not lend itself to the accusations you are making darkman2.

Just thought id chime in here. The Protestant population was nowhere near 20% of the souths population at independence, it was 7.5%-8% if I recall correctly, and it gradually dropped to 3% over a course of nearly 50 years. The main reason was intermarriage Ne Temerre decree which was a rule of te RC church that applied to every Catholic on earth, not some Irish law passed by the Dail and th Ne Temerre was passed in 1908, once again while Ireland was under British rule. It had been declining (the Protestant population in the 26 counties) since the mid 1800's IIRC aswel, while Ireland was under British rule (sharpest drop was around the decade of 1906-1916 I think). dont have time to get into this more unfortunately!