Ryanair to start Transatlantic Flights in 3-4 Years

pclancy

I would be surprised if Ryanair with over 130 758s in their fleet and options for 140 more would suddenly switch over to Airbus meaning a lot of new training and engineering infrastructure...wouldnt really make sense not to go with the dreamliner or 757? Id be surprised also if they split the planes into classes, ryanair will make their money in in flight services such as food, online gambling, movies etc and probably charge more for "extra legroom" seats like Zoom do.

Also as regards air pollution I read before that air travel was resultant in less then 4% of carbon emmisions, thats a tiny amount compared to car, power and industry emmisions! Pollution levels per distance travelled per person makes air travel one of the most enviromentally favourable means of transport...

dmeehan

Archytas wrote:

... stewards with whips

and will they be wearing tight leather outfits too?

Franz Ferdinand

10 reasons why FR doing long-haul is patent BS.

10. He said he'd never touch long-haul because its 'not the Ryanair model'.

9. He says single fleet Ops is a key element of Ryanairs success.

8. The announcement is timed to suppress EI share price after Open Skies boost.

7. EU passengers won't accept 8 hours of FR abuse.

6. US passengers won't accept FR abuse, ever.

5. You can strand 50 pax in Santander and possibly get away with it, but you won't get away with stranding 300 in Chattanooga.

4. The A350 won't be delivered until 2013 - a tad late for his 'start date'.

3. The 787 will be delivered in late 2008 - then there are over 540 orders stretching through to 2012. Where does he get a slot - never mind 50 of them?

2. The crap about prices soon dropping? See above.

AND AT NUMBER.1.........

1. MOL making an announcement of something he's gonna do in 3 to 5 years?
So out of character!

He has nothing to deliver here, just hot air, yet he rushes to make this announcement.
Why now?
Think it through.
Its bull.

Boeing will NOT do MOL any favours on pricing this time round. He blew their goodwill when he crowed about how he had 'raped them' (his words) on his last big 737 order.

In addition to that, he's been pedalling those same B737's for the last year like a second hand car salesman, often under cutting Boeings own prices when selling on his new deliveries - it keeps the cash flow going and avoids the embarrassment of having a/c parked up with no where to go.
And it sure pisses Boeing off.

He's laughing at you impressionable mugs.

BuffyBot

10. He said he'd never touch long-haul because its 'not the Ryanair model'.

9. He says single fleet Ops is a key element of Ryanairs success.

As Ryanair itself wouldn't be operating the flights, those points are slightly irrelevant.

Whether or not this "sister" airline goes ahead is another thing..but yes, he could do it if he really wanted to.

daveirl

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Franz Ferdinand

As Ryanair itself wouldn't be operating the flights, those points are slightly irrelevant.

Err...No. Y'see, it's the rabid personality of Mr.O'Leary which makes Ryanair such a nasty company. Since he'll be running this fantasy airline - it'll be just as nasty as Ryanair.

Why would he be laughing at us.

Because his spin is working - you believe in his fantasy airline, thus making him feel like a master manipulator of the media and public opinion - I'd say he's crackin' up. I would be.

You're pretty upset by this aren't you. An EI employee by any chance?

Thats a fairly nosey question, considering I know nothing about you! Go ahead and tell us who you are.

What abuse?

You've been living under a rock I take it?

PCros

Franz you havnt a clue what your talking about did you copy and paste that from PPRUNE.org?

Firstly you obviously havn't read all of the posts, if you had you would have realised there is about 10% FR involvement in the venture.

EU passangers are already taking the "abuse" you speak of so what is going to be the difference, a few hours longer in the plane. They are paying for what they get, people must be stupid if they dont know how FR operate then get a shock when they sit down on the plane.

If he goes with the 787 he will get a priority slot considering hes one of Boeings most valuable customers buying 135 737-800's over the past few years and having another 147 on order!

The A350 will be available in 2010, Air Europa and Qatar have the first orders for then.

And those 737's he'll be "pedalling" are the newest types of the 737 around so he has alot of life left in those aircraft.

Have a good day.

daveirl

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naitkris

daveirl wrote:

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of course. money makes the world go round and everyone wants some of it - nothing new there. what makes Ryanair worse than the average airline is that they actively encourage unnecessary leisure travel (weekend breaks to other countries etc) at a very, very cheap price compared to most other airlines. so cheap in fact that taking the train etc (while better for the environment compared to flying - see article further below) is sometimes more expensive and of course takes longer, making travelling by air the choice for everyone today who is constantly in a hurry to go on a quiet relaxing break 1,000's of miles away.

if Ryanair and airlines won't increase their airfares, then Governments should increase their taxes on air travel to stop people travelling by air as much and start to take the train or other forms of transport which does less damage to the environment.

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Yeah won't be agreeing with anything like this until there is near conclusive proof that we are responsible for it..

Air Travel and Climate Change: Take the Train - "One transatlantic flight for a family of four creates more CO2 than that family generates domestically in an entire year.(source) Because of this many travellers are turning their backs on flying and going overland. While this is easier in Europe with shorter distances and better train networks, it is still an option- even driving 12,000 miles creates less CO2. Dan Kieran notes in the Guardian that he has not flown in 17 years, and extolls the virtues of taking the train."

Franz Ferdinand

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

He said he was leaving FR to do this, why don't you PAY ATTENTION!

Personally I don't find them 'nasty' in the slightest.

Well I do, so its your word against mine.

Besides what do you care whether this fantasy airline is nasty or not. Since it's not real what difference does it make, and since you clearly won't want to fly it what difference does it make to you?

Hmmmm.....gee, thats a real deep philosophical question. I'd think about it if I had the time to waste. Why are you discussing it? Maybe its the same kinda angle, eh? Could you run it by me again?

I couldn't care less whether us discussing this makes him happy or not. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. As I pointed out if this doesn't go ahead it makes no difference to my life.........

There you go on the philisophical tangent again. Yawn.

Ok, I'll give you a hint.

Its called NEWS, and this is a Transport forum, where people discuss NEWS about TRANSPORT.
Geddit?

I've no monetary or personal investment in the success of this venture hence why am I being taken for a fool. Scams are pretty much only worth doing if you gain money from them, aren't they?

How do we KNOW that you don't gain? You could be a Ryanair employee!
Are you?

I'm just surprised that any random punter would get so worked up over something as small as an airline hypothetically launching another airline. If you were an Aer Lingus employee I'd understand why you'd be annoyed.

Well then I'd be jumping to the same conclusion in thinking you sound just like a Ryanair employee trying to defend your obnoxious boss and his company. Am I right? I am - admit it!

I've never got one iota of abuse from anyone on a Ryanair flight.

Yes, you DO work for Ryanair!!

None of my family or friends have either.

Well MINE have - so it's my word agin yers again.

Some people have had bad experiences with them, but I've flown BA and had a great flight but read stories of people who've had horrible ones. If you think you get into the cabin and are abused by Ryanair staff members for the duration of the flight I suggest you try flying with them.

You're contradicting yourself. In one breath you say you've never had a bad experience with Ryanair (as if that MEANS anything) then in the next breath you admit OTHER people DO have complaints about Ryanair! Are you really THAT self centred?

I listened to the Consumer Council chief on radio two days ago. They were discussing Ryanair passengers who had been stranded at some foreign field, and another story about the 75 euro Ryanair screwed out of an invalid childs parents to carry him (the alternative being abandonment abroad).
The guy from the Consumer Council made an interesting point. He said that he has dealt with complaints from about every airline - but Ryanair is the only company that NEVER admits fault. Never apologises. That the CUSTOMER is always wrong with Ryanair.

Like I said - cheap'n'nasty airline, run by an obnoxious little gurrier. How do you defend them screwing money from invalids, and stranding people abroad? You're a cold hard hearted monster. Just like your boss.
Shame on you!

murphaph

This one's for you Franz......the way it used to be

Franz Ferdinand

...and how it is now.

Eh... Get a hold of yourself will ya? Your ranting has ruined any argument you had...

ooh...terminal sense of humour failure!

Archytas

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

ooh...terminal sense of humour failure!

Hardly - Your rant wasn't very funny... And I'm very easily amused.

naitkris

duplicate post - delete please.

daveirl

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Bradidup

I can just imagine it, having to put up with their adds and garbage over the intercom for 5 hours and having the food trolly passing up and down for at least another ten times. Not mentioning the introduction of in flight use of mobile phones!

daveirl

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jackofalltrades

He says the way they'll do it is also have a very nice business class on the front which will better serve business class travellers than AerLingus or BA. The economy seats will be cost effective as an addition to this business class section.

It all depends on what their business class is going to be like, there's a gapping hole in the market as it stands for a low cost business or premium economy transatlantic service from Dublin.

I doubt there economy is going to be much cheaper as it generally makes very little money on transatlantic flights and is generally subsidised by an expensive business or first class.

Franz Ferdinand

daveirl wrote:

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Not surprised you're confused. Thats the whole idea. Even his 'start date' varies from 2 years to 5 years depending what you read. He just can't get the story right and stick to it. The sign of a bad liar.

What did the inflight crew do to you

Inflight crew? You're fishing.

I'm discussing it because I like the idea and would like to fly this airline. You're railing against something you don't believe will happen and if it did you wouldn't use anyway, kinda like me being concerned about whether Lyon's Tea launch a new blend of tea, they may or may not be and it doesn't matter to me because I won't drink it anyway, but should there be a thread on the Food/Drink board full of people hypothesizing as to what blend it would be I'd feel no need to berate them because it wouldn't impact me positively or negatively.

Whatever. Am I allowed an opinion too then? Or do you prefer to keep the discussion in your own little world?

You didn't address my point. My point remains, why am I a fool for discussing the creation of the airline, that was your point in your first post.

No it wasn't. Read it again.

Not at all, I've no emotional investment in Ryanair. I couldn't care what airline people fly, I pointed out in a previous post I fly Aer Lingus regularly also. I also pointed out yesterday I though the booking form for Ryanair was devious.

So you say. Expect me to believe that? You're too het up to be just an observer. You've definitely got an angle.

By your reckoning if I were a Ryanair employee I'd constantly be getting abuse on flights because of the poor service I'd be offering right? Or are you claiming that Ryanair are a 'nasty' airline which by some unusual occurance the staff lead an life free from abuse from customers.

The staff in FR get plenty of abuse alright. But who said you're 'inflight crew' as you put it? You could be a Ryanair manager. Hell, you could be O'Leary himself for all we know.
See, thats the trouble with anonymous internet boards - you just can't tell WHO you're dealing with.

What sort of logic is that? I believe bad experiences are in the minority and I'm willing to run the risk of having poor service for the incredibly low price some of my flights cost. What's there not to understand about that? By your logic I should never fly BA or EI ever again either because somewhere once someone had a bad experience with them/

Perfect logic, because you are now having to qualify and explain your comment, which was patently contradictory. Ryanair have plenty of angry customers, and endless complaints (witness the evidence of the Consumer Council). You on the other hand just make subjective, contradictory, and patently incorrect assertions, and expect your mere opinion to override the evidence.

You completely missed the point, all airlines have customers with bad experiences.

No YOU missed the point, because (as the Consumer guy said) only Ryanair refuse to fairly DEAL with customer complaints. If I have a complaint with a service I can still be satisfied if the compaint is dealt with. Ryanair REJECT all complaints, religiously. They are immune to criticism.

Can the personal abuse.

That wasn't abuse - that was a bit of humour - you humourless cold hearted monster!

Can you point out where I defended Ryanair from any of the accusations in your last two paragraphs. Anywhere? Please? Here's a hint, I didn't.

Hey, you jumped to their defense when I criticised them. You're a fan. Come out of the closet and admit it.

Bradidup

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Maybe a good set of ear muffs and a heap of sleeping pills! They will probably charge you for using the bog as well

Archytas

Franz Ferdinand wrote:

So you say. Expect me to believe that? You're too het up to be just an observer. You've definitely got an angle.

The staff in FR get plenty of abuse alright. But who said you're 'inflight crew' as you put it? You could be a Ryanair manager. Hell, you could be O'Leary himself for all we know.
See, thats the trouble with anonymous internet boards - you just can't tell WHO you're dealing with.

Hey, you jumped to their defense when I criticised them. You're a fan. Come out of the closet and admit it.

Is this another attempt at humour? This thread has gone from a discussion on the new ryanair routes to a ridiculous mess of you ranting on about Mr O'Leary. An admin should really lock this thread - all that's constructive has been said already and its startin to waver off topic apart from Franz's ranting...

yayamark

Archytas wrote:

Is this another attempt at humour? This thread has gone from a discussion on the new ryanair routes to a ridiculous mess of you ranting on about Mr O'Leary. An admin should really lock this thread - all that's constructive has been said already and its startin to waver off topic apart from Franz's ranting...

ya agreed
all the good points have been discussed its descended in a franz rant
please close this thread moderator.

BuffyBot

4. The A350 won't be delivered until 2013 - a tad late for his 'start date'.

3. The 787 will be delivered in late 2008 - then there are over 540 orders stretching through to 2012. Where does he get a slot - never mind 50 of them?

You're also assuming he will start with a brand new fleet. Ryanair didn't. There is nothing to stop him picking up a second hand fleet first while waiting for new aircraft to come down the line.

Plus, who says he would need 50 aircraft immediately. It's a lot more likely that any venture is going to start with a couple of routes first to test the water and then work up from there.

daveirl

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Calina

All the debate on environmental impact of flying has been moved here

________________

I don't like banning people, and I don't like closing threads as a general rule and despite all those allegations of personal abuse floating around, no one reported any posts here. If you are upset about something, there is a report post button.

________________

On the substantive issue: the way I see it is this: setting up an airline is not something you can do in five minutes, so yeah, a few months to a year notice of someone's intention to do something is probably okay. That being said, as a general rule, something like this can be seen a bit like vapourware. It's not there yet. Until it's there and you have a start date, I really wouldn't get excited about it. Some guy announced in Germany there not so long ago he was setting up an airline which you could smoke in because he had nostalgia for the 50s. Don't know if he's managed it yet.

The problem I have in this country is that Michael O'Leary somehow has managed to create this myth around himself. Either he's a god, or he's the very devil incarnate, but no one seems to recognise the reality. He's still only a man. Because of the myth, not too many people look at him with any sort of proportion. He can make all the announcements he likes but until he announces that his new airline has bought an aircraft, gotten certification and a slot out of some airport in Europe to an airport in the US, I really don't care what he says. What he does is important and right now, he's not doing it. And until he does it, you won't know whether he'll succeed. The mere fact that it may be Michael O'Leary doesn't guarantee success or failure. The truth is Ryanair have quite a bit of money lying around I assume - otherwise they wouldn't have tried to buy Aer Lingus. It may be that Open Skies is the trigger factor for this idea. I don't know. I will say this: I have this impression that Michael O'Leary usually doesn't announce his intentions to do something until he's very ready to do it. He's announced this years in advance. I hope someone remembers to ask him in a few years time how it's coming along.

Franz Ferdinand

BuffyBot wrote:

You're also assuming he will start with a brand new fleet.

No I'm not. His press comments stated not only that it would be either A350's or B787's - but that he was even going to wait for the prices to drop (snigger) before he gets started. I'm not the one making this up - he is.

Plus, who says he would need 50 aircraft immediately. It's a lot more likely that any venture is going to start with a couple of routes first to test the water and then work up from there.

Who says? HE SAYS! jeeeez.

Calina wrote:

He's still only a man.

Careful! He could be reading this!

What he does is important and right now, he's not doing it.

Exactly!

I will say this: I have this impression that Michael O'Leary usually doesn't announce his intentions to do something until he's very ready to do it. He's announced this years in advance. I hope someone remembers to ask him in a few years time how it's coming along.

I can promise you now - he'll be gone and forgotten before you get to ask that question.

dave2pvd

Agreed re Aer Lingus being one of the better of a bad lot for transatlantic. All things being equal, they would always be my 1st choice (for now).

Now if Ryanair enter the transatlantic game, they'd probably be buying new planes. So the seat cushions would be OK for a couple of years. Unlike Delta's. They make my ar$e go on a separate vacation.

opa01_2000

I don't want to get involved in the above argument as it appears to be getting personal. I can only comment on my experiences.

I have used Ryanair regularly for some time as the flights are convenient to me. I can assure you that is the only reason. I have found the delays, cancellations, the REAL cost of a flight as compared to the published ticket price, the lack of customer service, the inability to refund tickets where flights have been cancelled etc. etc. to be almost intolerable. I travel to England for work regularly and the departure airport and arrival airport make the journey convenient for me. There is no alternative at these airports - to use an alternative I would have a 1.5 hour extra drive in Ireland and a less convenient airport in England.

I had a six-hour delay at Stansted one Friday which took about 2 hours to comunicate and when they did the Ryanair staff member said "don't expect any vouchers - they won't give you any". No mention was made of EU directive 261/2004 which stipulates the airline must provide you with a copy of your rights when a flight is delayed or cancelled.

On another occasion the outbound flight was cancelled - no reason was given. I was promised a full refund would be paid to my credit card within 7 working days. Two months and one complaint later I have received nothing.

The baggage charge is a joke. £10 per bag with a 15kg limit. Three of us travelling with one bag weighing 20kg would have to take two bags each costing £10 to avoid astronomical overweight charges - the 3 * 15kg does not apply.

What I always say about Ryanair is it is ok for short haul flights if you don't need to go - where you can choose to take a weekend away and are not particularly fussed about the date or the destination. You can then find some "bargains" although the extra charges soon make this less of a bargain and you might be lucky in the flight taking off on time and encountering no cancellations. If you NEED to be somewhere on a particular date (particlarly if not booked well in advance) then you generally will pay as much as the higher cost carriers without any of the benefits and lots of attempts to flog you everything under the sun. This includes the Ryanair lottery which I was told by one stewardess was all donated to charity. However, when I bought a scratchcard the card says "a donation will be made to charity" - I wonder what percentage.

I feel sorry for the Ryanair staff as they always look under pressure, would work for any other airline if they had the choice, are being paid less than all other UK or Ireland based airlines (BA average income for cabin staff is £22k, Are Lingus & Easyjet £20k while Ryanair is £16k) and you know that they are getting no support from their organisation.

When you look at the USA announcement, I would have to ask if you can get a flight for £7 what will the ACTUAL cost be when PSC, baggage, taxes and charges, food etc are added in. I think I'll stick to Aer Lingus !!!

Franz Ferdinand

Bang on again - seems there are SOME people on this Board who see past the propoganda. Read this article from Sundays Trubune:

Ryanair flights to New York come as news to New York
Richard Delevan , Sunday Tribune

'RYANAIR to launch Euro10 flights to US' made front-page headlines on both sides of the Atlantic, but we the media may have got a bit ahead of ourselves.

For one thing, Ryanair made it clear on Friday that the airline had no plans to launch a service.

If it happens, setting up a new airline will actually be Michael O'Leary's idea of a quiet retirement after he steps down as Ryanair CEO.

The "announcement" - in fact remarks by O'Leary originally made to Flight International magazine - was also news to the airport that would be the New York area linchpin of the reported transatlantic strategy, Long Island Islip MacArthur Airport.

Full disclosure: this reporter grew up two miles from the airport and worked there on school holidays as a skycap.

Islip MacArthur isn't exactly sleepy - two million passengers passed through last year, or less than 10% of the traffic at Dublin airport. It's also about 50 miles from New York, a geographical oddity Ryanair passengers will be used to. It has 92 passenger flights a day, with Southwest Airlines - Michael O'Leary's lowcost inspiration - as its anchor tenant.

One other health warning about a Ryanair transatlantic service for Euro10 one-way. The price in news stories should, like Ryanair adverts, have been accompanied by an asterisk. The "taxes, fees and charges" that Ryanair leaves off its list price would actually make a Euro10 Stansted to Islip flight cost over Euro225. Zoom already offers a Euro344 service from Gatwick to JFK. And that's for a round trip.

On the plus side, a station for the Long Island Rail Road is 2 miles away, with hourly service into Manhattan and also trains eastbound to the Hamptons. A shuttle bus connection costs $5.

The airport also has four runways, one stretching 7,000 feet long and built for military transports that use it as a base.

But the news came as a total surprise to Catherine Green, spokeswoman for the Town of Islip, the local authority which owns and operates the airport.

"We had a couple of phone calls yesterday from New York papers. You're the first from Ireland, " she said.

Any official approach from Ryanair? "Ryanair hasn't discussed this in any way with us."

"The airport is not set up at this time for international flights, " she said, though the airport terminal recently underwent a $60m expansion. "It would require infrastructure to allow for customs and immigration."

Might that require investment? "Oh yes."

Would the town pay for it?

"Well, it would require investment."

If the transatlantic dream becomes reality and they're negotiating with Michael O'Leary over a terminal, Islip officials won't know what hit them.

But there is a chance O'Leary isn't waiting for retirement to get things going. Local rumour has it that a company connected to O'Leary has already been in discussions with Comair, a subsidiary of Delta Air Lines, to sublet landing rights at Islip MacArthur for three domestic flights a week. Watch this space.

http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_s...ibune/Business

Regarding that 225 euro Ryanair ticket price - right now on the Aer Lingus website you can buy a FULL SERVICE one way ticket to NYC for 233 euro - which includes all the taxes. On a REAL airline, on a REAL flight, not just some flight of fantasy.

gjim

Agreed re Aer Lingus being one of the better of a bad lot for transatlantic. All things being equal, they would always be my 1st choice (for now).

Which carriers were worse than Aer Lingus? Of the four transatlantic carriers I've experienced, Aer Lingus was the worst 'though admittedly the second worse (AA) was close enough to make it debatable.

Bobser

I'm vey sceptical about Ryanair's ability to pull this off. It's getting into a different sector which is not their strength and gets away from Ryanair's main asset - its devotion to its business model.

BuffyBot

I'm vey sceptical about Ryanair's ability to pull this off.

Luckily, should it come to fruition, it isn't Ryanair that will be operating the flights but a seperate airline then

dave2pvd

gjim wrote:

Which carriers were worse than Aer Lingus? Of the four transatlantic carriers I've experienced, Aer Lingus was the worst 'though admittedly the second worse (AA) was close enough to make it debatable.

Delta are worst. My 'home-town' carrier, alas. Zero capital investment for years. Including seat cushions! And cabin crew.

Continental are usually very mediocre. Slightly above Delta. They do have a properly functional website and good cust svc though. Then there's the Newark, NJ factor....what a dump of an airport.

BA I suppose weren't too bad when I used to fly ATL-LGW-DUB. Only, LGW's baggage thugs were on a go-slow for years, thus lost bags, damaged bags or luggage never made connections on time. That coloured my BA impression a bit.

United/KLM are best of the rest. Schipol is a wonderful airport, except that no-one there is awake for red-eye arrivals. The place is shut down. Just like DUB. One time the jet-way operator hadn't arrived to work and we couldn't get off the plane....

Aer Lingus, I suppose I may be a bit biased towards. It seems comfortably familiar when you get on the plane at JFK (iirc?). You're almost home. Plus, what a great colour scheme they have . It's hard to separate the airport from the airline. DUB is the world's worst of all the developed world, in my experience. A total disgrace. I could go on and on and on about how pathetic that shed is.

One more thing: I haven't been on the AerLingus website for a while, but it used to be awful. They were very slow to join the innernets. But so were so many of the Euro airlines. AL just seemed to be last.

Skyhater

For what it's worth I agree..... It's partly a Patriotic thing..... but you feel so much close to home when you get on an EI flight @ JFK, ORD or LAX.
EI are my #1 choice for Transatlantic flights..... I also find them usually to be the cheapest!!!

dave2pvd wrote:

One more thing: I haven't been on the AerLingus website for a while, but it used to be awful. They were very slow to join the innernets. But so were so many of the Euro airlines. AL just seemed to be last.

It's quite a good website now... I like it.
I especially like the calender that shows fares on previous/subsequent days!!! This is so so so much better than Ryanair's "next day" thing (where it can take you forever to see the cheapest travel days) or the KLM / AF / BA system.

Captain Boycott

You better not hold your breath!

Following reports of a board-level divergence of opinion, Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary has confirmed the carrier's vision of a transatlantic low-cost long-haul operation, despite the plan being dependent on whether the European Union/US Open Skies agreement “is implemented effectively across Europe”.

Speaking at last month's French Connect conference in Nantes, France, Ryanair deputy chief executive Michael Cawley was quoted as saying that O’Leary’s revelations were “a public relations stunt”.

But according to flightglobal.com’s sister on-line publication Air Transport Intelligence, he also said that there is "an opportunity there" for a long-haul low-cost airline, but the opportunity does not exist "in the short-term".

O’Leary has since told Flight International that Cawley’s message is the same as his, explaining: “Michael Cawley gave a 40 minute presentation to the French Connect Conference in Nantes. “He quite correctly pointed out that any long-haul, low fares airline would not be connected to Ryanair, would not happen in the short-term, but was a long-term opportunity.

“This reflects the key points of the discussions we had in Dublin recently. His message was consistent with mine.

“Remember my caution that nothing would happen unless Open Skies is actually implemented effectively across Europe unless/until then there is a major downturn in the industry which creates an opportunity to acquire a fleet of long-haul aircraft cheaply.

“As you know the jury is out on both of these counts currently.”
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/05/04/213668/ryanair-boss-backs-deputy-on-low-cost-transatlantic.html

Open Skies has been agreed and signed, yet Micko is using it as an excuse for not starting his much vaunted T/A service.
Mr.Cawley appears to have dropped a clanger, and Micko is back-pedalling and spinning like a madman.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the FR boardroom!
Anyone see the documentary about Robert Maxwell on CH4 this week?:rolleyes:

faceman

Whether o'leary does it is one thing, but there is bound to be someone at some stage who offers a low fares alternative

MadsL

faceman wrote:

Whether o'leary does it is one thing, but there is bound to be someone at some stage who offers a low fares alternative

Anyone remember Freddie Laker?

faceman

MadsL wrote:

Anyone remember Freddie Laker?

laker airways suffered for a variety of reasons: recession, lack of investment, and a massive price cut by its competitors. He didnt have the finance to recover or deal with it. PLus his business model differed from o'learys

Captain Boycott

Oh really?
What is O'Learys business model then?
Besides Spoofing?:D
And Cunning Stunts?:D

faceman

For a start he offers alot more inflight chargeable items than laker did. MOre areas to generate revenue

Captain Boycott

Well I guess if people are mug enough to be taken in by all the hidden extras it works on short haul. But the model is totally unproven on long haul and is a huge risk.

I believe O'Leary blurted this whole thing out off the top of his head, to cover his embarrassment at being seen off in his attempted takeover at Aer Lingus. Rumours from the EU Competition authourity are sounding bad for his chances of success in future.
Its a bit like a child picking up his ball and running off to play with his 'new friends' because his little pals have rejected him.:D

I remember a year or two ago when EOS were setting up on the Transatlantic service. They set out with a LoCo business model - then suddenly reversed their plans and went for a 'Full Biz Class' service instead. When cross examined on the 180 degree turn they said the numbers just wouldn't add up on the LoCo model.
They are still in business, and doing well with their new model.

The jury is out on LoCo long haul. If O'Leary tries it he may fall flat on his face.

GuanYin

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Agreed. AL are awful and I'll probably never fly with them again.

BA or AF for me.

antoinolachtnai

What Mick is trying to do is to scare off Aer Lingus's bankers. If the bankers feel AL are likely to be competing with O'Leary on the Atlantic, they will not fund AL, because its cost base is too high to prevail in a price war.

This is how O'Leary plans to force Aer Lingus to do a deal with him (as far as I can see).

faceman

Captain Boycott wrote:

The jury is out on LoCo long haul. If O'Leary tries it he may fall flat on his face.

o'leary did say he would offer a premium service (presumably business or 1st class on the flights too) so he may have been trying to cover off all bases...

dowlingm

antoin - I think that's exactly what MOL is up to - scaring EI shareholders and bankers.

As for what FR might do next - who can tell? Once upon a time MOL said noone would want to go near Gdansk and yet a couple of years later there he is, opening routes to Poland and telling the local media how much humble pie tastes like chicken.

Captain Boycott

Right.
But anyway, back to the point.
Why does O'Learys deputy CEO think his bosses idea is just a publicity stunt?
Strife in the boardroom?
Maybe O'Leary sees the writing on the wall - he's for the high jump.

The Aer Lingus buyout might have succeeded if it wasn't for his motor mouth. The guy is a liability.

BuffyBot

Unlikely. He's already said he's planning to step down.

Captain Boycott

Maybe he's taking too long about it and somebody else wants a go?

There are mutterings on certain websites about whats going to happen to the value of his Aer Lingus share holding if the EU tells him he must off-load them. The shareholders money he has tied up in that misadventure is looking highly at risk.

faceman

Captain Boycott wrote:

The Aer Lingus buyout might have succeeded if it wasn't for his motor mouth.

how u figure that?

Captain Boycott wrote:

The guy is a liability.

yeah, ryanair have suffered since he was appointed CEO :rolleyes:

dowlingm

Michael O'Leary is an excellent CEO *of the company he runs* - he would be an awful CEO of a flag carrier but he sets out his stall - airline as bus service - and sticks to it. He has made a ton of money for his shareholders which is after all his statutory duty. If he has abused his customers - well, it goes to show that his customers are stupid because his form is hardly a secret!

The CEOs who have tried to run flag carriers as MOL has (are your ears burning Willie?) have been a disaster.