Cows need us to eat them

Tar.Aldarion

Lol, just lol.
Guess we have a teen that reads maddox?
Who knows more about what these 'hypocritical' vegetarians(who are obvious bastions of morality that have to do everything right) eat, you or them?

Just imagine for an instant that I do not know what tallow is, why should anybody look it up, why?

NO animal gets killed for you to live your life. Which is impossible anyway

I know of a vegan tribe over 5, 000 years old that disagree.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Guess we have a teen that reads maddox?

Yep.

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Just imagine for an instant that I do not know what tallow is, why should anybody look it up, why?

It's added to many compounds used in our day to day lives.

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I know of a vegan tribe over 5, 000 years old that disagree.

EDIT: Too insulting, sorry:
Good for them.

Nature Boy

Clark Colossal Evergreen wrote:

This is why I eat meat:

(1) It's delicious.

(2) It's impossible and hypocritical to be a vegetarian unless I grow my own crops.

How, you ask?
Think of the pesticides used to keep your cabbages and wheat bug free. The pellets used to kill snails and slugs who trespass on your food. We (meat eaters) raise cows in a safe secure environment where they’re killed for our culinary delight. You spray insects with chemicals to keep them from eating your vegetables. At least we use (and eat) what we kill, and we’re not even the ones with a moral objection to it! Not forgetting rabbits, badgers and hares who are killed as a result of your vegetarian diet. Think about it, what happens to them when you decide to use their meadows to grow your crops? They lived there their entire lives, you think they set up shop in a neighbouring burrow like a fu©king Disney film? No, they die in some foreign environment they’re unfamiliar with, murderers.
The only thing you can do about it is to grow your own crops and cultivate your own food to ensure NO animal gets killed for you to live your life. Which is impossible anyway, find out what “tallow” is.

Firstly, RELAX!!! Go smoke some weed or something.

Secondly, I hate myself for replying to this message at 20 to 12 on a Wednesday night. I've been avoiding this thread, but, alas, I have succumbed

Thridly, why can't we at least try to make a difference? We know about the issues we face with food. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Quint

rockbeer wrote:

I hope one day you're imprisoned and given a death sentence so I can remind you how much you're supposed to enjoy it.

So it's wrong to imprison animals for food, except ones that you don't agree with? If you were leader of a country, would you imprison all other people that agreed with scumlord? So I guess we know how genocide starts now.

kraggy

ScumLord wrote:

That just doesn't sound right, by that definition a lion that that would be feed a vegetable supplement is no longer a carnivore.

Being carnivore or omnivore is a body adaptation, lions don't choose to eat meat they have to.

There's more information here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnivore What do you call someone who eats words???


Your an omnivore that choses to eat only veg.

That's the most ridiculous rationale i've ever heard.

Unbelievable. To put it simply for you, an animal, such as a lion if you wish, who eats meat for years until today, then starts to have some veg with his dinner from today on, is now an omnivore, not solely a carnivore anymore.

You eat your words, like a good lad:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
om·niv·o·rous /ɒmˈnɪvərəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[om-niv-er-uhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. eating both animal and plant foods.
2. eating all kinds of foods indiscriminately.

Note the "eating" part? Not "can eat". Good lad.

Tar.Aldarion

It's added to many compounds used in our day to day lives.

So?
And it is not used by vegetarians.
Like a lot more 'compounds'.

ScumLord

Unbelievable. To put it simply for you, an animal, such as a lion if you wish, who eats meat for years until today, then starts to have some veg with his dinner from today on, is now an omnivore, not solely a carnivore anymore.

In my example he eats only a vegetable supplement so by your definition he'd be a herbivore. Which isn't really possible as being carnivore, omnivore etc.. Is a physical adaptation lions cannot digest vegetable matter. Herbivores cannot digest flesh, omnivores have special adaptations that allow them to do both. Saying that an animal can choose which type of food it consumes (outside of the omnivore of course) is like saying I can choose to fly like a bird if the mood hits me.

Didn't you read the link? It clearly states that body's adapt to a food type. A carnivore gut is completely different to a herbivore gut. You can see the difference a omnivore gut made to the human by comparing pictures of humans and chimps. Chimps have huge belly's it takes allot more effort to digest vegetable matter than it does flesh. If you look at a dog or any other carnivore they have tiny belly's. We're somewhere in the middle. I have heard of modern food that you can feed to cats and dogs so that they are eating food that has been processed from vegetable matter and the opposite for cattle but that's not the same as them simply eating raw flesh or veg.



Most the definitions I came across where like the one you gave which is generic and open to different interpretations. That's why I tried to find a more detailed explanation.

Nature Boy

Why are people hung up on the definition of omnivore? Does it really matter??

Jack Vegas

In response to Scumlord's chimp example - funnily enough studies have proven that vegitarians on average have a higher IQ than meat eaters.

ScumLord

I wouldn't be all that surprised, meat eating is common so your going to have all the stupid people in our group. My impression of your average vegetarian is a fairly worldly person. The decision to become vegetarian is a pretty rational one because it's usually for health reasons.

I would say though that those people are intelligent in their own right and that it's not the food their eating that's making them intelligent.

When chimps eat meat they become more socialable more because the food is so rich they can afford to share if they continue to hunt though I wouldn't be surprised if the meat has the same effect on them as it did on us.

grahamo

Great thread but lets face it. evolution has given you a nice sharp set of incisors for meat eating! Fool yourselves all you want but your all omnivores. You NEED roast beef, pork chops, fried chicken with loads of gravy and stuffing. After a long thread like this all you veggies will need a nap as your iron and vitamin B reserves are now seriously depleted!

Tar.Aldarion

You know so much wise one, oh so much. Humans are the cleverererest species ever.

Nature Boy

grahamo wrote:

Great thread but lets face it. evolution has given you a nice sharp set of incisors for meat eating! Fool yourselves all you want but your all omnivores. You NEED roast beef, pork chops, fried chicken with loads of gravy and stuffing. After a long thread like this all you veggies will need a nap as your iron and vitamin B reserves are now seriously depleted!

What a stupid post.

That is all.

rockbeer

Quint wrote:

So it's wrong to imprison animals for food, except ones that you don't agree with? If you were leader of a country, would you imprison all other people that agreed with scumlord? So I guess we know how genocide starts now.

Go and look up "irony" in your little dictionary.

Bottle_of_Smoke

rockbeer wrote:

Of course, but no other species enslaves other species or members of its own. In that we are, I think, unique.

Not quite true - Maybe you meant mammals. Though I'm not sure that would be universal either. Check out the link

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf016/sf016p10.htm

You seem to fail to realize that you're a member of the only species to have even attempted to invent technology specifically to aid its bloodthirsty compulsions.

Bollocks. If you believe in evolution you can't possibly think that.

Researchers recently found chimps using spears to hunt. It's also known chimp gangs often sneak up on isolated members of rival chimp gangs & beat them to death for the benifit of their own tribe. Put two & two together & I wouldn't be so sure about your quote. I'm also confident there were other species that did the same but were wiped out as the most successful species(homo sapien) saw them as a potential threat.

chimp attacks

chimp spear

Of course animals would wipe each other out if they had the capacity to realise the benefits.

Scumlord wrote:

Your guilty of taking me up wrong aswell, I love primates, Chimps are my second favorite animal after humans then maybe bonobo monkeys a close 3rd.

Always thought Bonobos were chimps, smaller & slightly more intelligent.

As for my own stance I don't feel guilty for eating meat. Anyone who condemns me for this & isn't a vegan or uses western medicine is a hippocrite. "it's okay to imprison animals just don't eat them" type BS logic.

Also meat is delicious, went veggie for just under a year as I thought it was healthier. Curries/Enschiladas etc just aren't the same with beans. Maybe if you're a great cook they can be but not for the layman. I lost a sh it load of weight as a vegetarian too(i know this can be avoided if you cook well but I just can't be arsed)

If Human meat wasn't unhealthy & I wasn't weirded out by it due to the society I was brought up in I'm sure I'd give it a try. If my survival depended on it I wouldn't hesitate.

On a side note the veggi club in Cafe Irie in temple bar is the nicest sandwich in Dublin IMO

ScumLord

I've heard that the chimps are copying their human neighbours and picking up some of our bad habits when it comes to attacking eachother and violence.

Researchers recently found chimps using spears to hunt. It's also known chimp gangs often sneak up on isolated members of rival chimp gangs & beat them to death for the benefit of their own tribe.

I've seen a chimp hunting party attack another chimp they found in their territory on tv, it was extremely vicious.

Always thought Bonobos were chimps, smaller & slightly more intelligent.

I think their classed as a separate species now. I don't know that their more intelligent their certainly more peaceful but that could be their downfall. The chimps are more human like with their use of tools and aggression but it's mostly down to the social smarts needed to hunt and you don't see many banobo monkeys being researched on.

Bottle_of_Smoke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Psychological_characteristics

ScumLord

I stand corrected, they are a very overlooked species I think I've only seen them once or twice on tv. I wonder would human society be like theirs if women ran things.

I still think chimps have the edge on them, I suppose mostly because chimps would kick banobos ass.

Jimoslimos

Well if one thing is certain, they no longer need us to produce chocolate, nougat & caramel based confectionery from their stomach linings:D

Piste

ScumLord wrote:

Overall the human is the best all rounder, would you really want to be another animal, think of all that you'd lose.

But kittens are just so much cuter

Tar.Aldarion

Jimoslimos wrote:

Well if one thing is certain, they no longer need us to produce chocolate, nougat & caramel based confectionery from their stomach linings:D

Heh. *High five*

Wouldn't you like to be a dolphin? Or a parrot(intelligence of a 5 year old child)?

Duggy747

Yeesh, some silly posts here. I myself absolutley love meat, I nearly have some form of it every day (Every weekend is Sirlione Steak weekend, yum!). I can't understand how people can make such a big deal over others choosing what they eat. My sister is the only one in the family who's a veggie but hot-damn does she cook up some great feeds (Big-ass Quorn meal, delicous!). I also find it funny how some people get a perception of a vegatarian, as if they consider a stick of celery "a good meal". I understand people having their reasons for not eating meat, for example they don't like the taste. I go green at the sight and smell of cabbage, brocolli or turnip, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm gonna go out to a field and go nuts taking a bite out of cows to satsify my unsationable appetite for flesh. But, veggies who choose to only eat veggies simply because they find if "awful & wrong" to eat meat I find quite daft, IMO.

But guys, I've seen people eat some crazy stuff altogether. Friend's roommate back in college ate all sorts of rotten stuff, one dish he prepared was peas with cheese (Cheesy peas, anyone?) topped off with an unhealthy dose of ketchup all over it! Yuck!!

lizzyvera

Plenty of animals can digest meat but rarely eat it anyway. Pigs and chimps for example. Using evolution as an argument is speculative and silly. Eg.

On the anti meat side: We don't have proper canines for biting necks and grabbing onto animals anymore, we have vestigial things that look like very small canines but couldn't serve their purpose because we evolved not to eat meat.

On the pro meat side: We have plenty of things in our bodies that have fallen out of use. Our spines are more suited to being on all fours, that doesn't mean WE should be on all fours, it's not in our nature and it doesn't fit the rest of our bodies. It just means we get a lot of back pain. So not having proper canines doesn't mean we're not meant to eat meat.

Ugh. Humans have a social conscience and it overrides our instincs. Generally we can control our anger and our sexual impulses. I don't have a hunting instinct anyway, maybe that's just me.

ScumLord

We don't have proper canines for biting necks and grabbing onto animals anymore, we have vestigial things that look like very small canines but couldn't serve their purpose because we evolved not to eat meat.

Many monkeys and primates have large k9s, we're one of the only ones that don't and we're the most dedicated meat eater. We had them in the past but I'd assume their loss had more to do with the development of speach and to allow for the very expressive face we grew into.

3greenrizla's

Compliments to all for a very good thread,

there are many points I would like to make & I will when I have more time,

1 quick point regarding animals not having emotions.

a few years ago we started feeding a stray dog who previously had been abbused, this dog was living in constant fear of humans & if a stranger came into the house he would cower in the corner.

just a thought I had while I was reading related posts.

Tar.Aldarion

I don't think anybody can claim other animals do not have emotions?

che81

but they do claim that Tar. lots of people just don't think that animals have the capability for emotion, which is utter nonsense. they should read the current copy of the new scientist for information.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg19426051.300-do-animals-have-emotions.html

ScumLord

It is nonsense, my point is that they don't have the same level of emotions, they can't imagine what is going to happen to them they don't think ahead like we do. Most animals only think about whats infront of them. Imagination is almost completely restricted to the human.

Tar.Aldarion

You have absolutelu no way of telling that. Since we are just animals, at what point did we magically gain these abilities that are not granted to other animals?

che81

I concur with Tar.Aldarion. You cannot just dismiss the rest of the animal species like that. I believe that animals have forethought. And not just from instinct. They dream for instance. I think that says a lot.