Spurs vs. Sevilla

leninbenjamin

Return leg tonight about to kick off

Tottenham

* 01 Robinson
* 06 Tainio
* 20 Dawson
* 26 King
* 02 Chimbonda
* 25 Lennon
* 04 Zokora
* 08 Jenas
* 15 Malbranque
* 10 Keane
* 09 Berbatov

Substitutes

* 12 Cerny,
* 13 Murphy,
* 14 Ghaly,
* 18 Defoe,
* 19 Taarabt,
* 28 Barnard,
* 29 Ifil

Sevilla

* 13 Cobeno
* 24 Hinkel
* 02 Javi Navarro
* 14 Escude
* 16 Puerta
* 04 Daniel
* 08 Poulsen
* 18 Marti
* 06 Adriano Correia
* 09 Kerzhakov
* 12 Kanoute

Substitutes

* 29 Javi Varas,
* 03 David,
* 10 Luis Fabiano,
* 11 Renato,
* 15 Jesus Navas,
* 20 Aitor Ocio,
* 25 Maresca

big performance needed tonight. is it too big a gamble to bring King back for the game?

Supercell

Terrible start, Tottenham are all over the place , AGG 1:3

Supercell

Make that 1:4 , fook , game over already.

andrewie

Terrible defending.

Fredi walked around them.

Supercell

andrewie wrote:

Terrible defending.

Fredi walked around them.

Yep, two very soft goals.

Also Keane and Berbatov still on their own up front, not good enough, Spurs need 4 now to win this, time for all out attack tbh.

KdjaCL

Spurs soft middle coming back to haunt them, Poulsen and Marti are crabs and both very good at it. Cant see Jenas and Zakora getting on top vs these 2. Could push Steed inside if he has a winger to go RW.

kdjac

leninbenjamin

playing King didn't pay off, defense is still very poor. they are in danger now of being torn apart. they look a nervous side, over hitting crosses, failing to get the 50 - 50s... its very disappointing. 4 goals needed now, one shot on goal so far from them, it's looking impossible.

Fair play to Sevilla, they are completely unphased by it all. playing very well.

SuprSi

Terrible performance by Spurs, though credit to Sevilla they're outplaying us. Berbatov was very unlucky, though it was game over after 7 minutes.

No excuses this time around.

leninbenjamin

bloody hell, Berbatov hits the post and the next minute Sevilla are 4 on 2 at the other end. they wasted the chance but considering the tie is effectively dead it's still making for pretty good viewing (not for Spurs fans of course).

The team were booed off at half time. as bad as they were it's a little harsh no? it's not that the layers wouldn't have been fired up, more that they got a bit nervous.

StickyMcGinty

nmo shame in going down to Seville though, they're a quality side.

I dont rate Dawson at all, back 4 looks very shaky altogether

crowd are fantastic aswell

SuprSi

Well there's my chance to complain about the ref! Another dodgy penalty decision, going Sevilla's way again.

Looking better, but still no chance.

SuprSi

Yay!!

mr_angry

Looks like there's hope yet.

KdjaCL

Altho the UEFA cup isnt liked there is always games like this, that are great to watcch

kdjac

andrewie

They need to keep up this momentum.

Two more is possible.

Supercell

Jebus 3-4 , 20 mins, 2 goals its fookin doable.


C'mon ye Spurs!!

SuprSi

All over them now, just can't score

StickyMcGinty

spurs are rubbish tonight, dont deserve to go through. Sevilla had the quality and experience to go through tonight. Very ill-disciplined display aswell, was hoping for somthing more tonight

eirebhoy

VinnyL wrote:

I dont rate Dawson at all

He's not the greatest but Ledley King is terribly overrated imo. He has pace, is very good on the ball, has most of the attributes really but doesn't seem to be the greatest player at reading the game. I suppose that will come with experience but he's hardly young and still needs an experienced guy beside him.

Galvasean

I have to agree with Andy Townsend's post match comments. Yes, Tottenham put up a spirited fight at the end and that is truly commendable. However they conceded two soft goals early on which shows either a lack of concentration and/or preparation and in fairness to Sevilla they could have been 3 or 4 nil up by half time. It was a good game to watch from a neutral perspective but Tottenham started fighting back far too late to have really stood a chance.

On a related note, did anyone else see that blatant time wasting by Sevilla's 'keeper? Shameless.

KdjaCL

Galvasean wrote:

On a related note, did anyone else see that blatant time wasting by Sevilla's 'keeper? Shameless.

OMG thats terribe he should be castr.....oh ffs its professional game played by pros if you dont like it go watch cricket ....ireland are good at that seemingly.




kdjac

SuprSi

I think Spurs were beaten by a team that knew how to handle the occasion better. Spurs started so poorly, and the sliced own goal just summed that up. Kanoute's goal was a resuilt of poor defending but for the first half Spurs hardly had a look in a should have been at least another couple down.

Different story for the last 30 minutes but it was too late at that stage and if you want to mount a comeback you've got to take your chances - Dawson & Berbatov missing two guilt-edged opportuinities.

I'm disappointed, especially with how quickly the goals were scored. Hopefully the team can bounce back before the weekend as qualification to the UEFA cup is necessary for the team to keep progressing and one avenue for quallification is now closed.

therecklessone

No denying it, we were beaten by the better side over two legs.

That said, it could all have been so different with competent refereeing (especially in the 1st leg)

Missed both of Seville's goals as myself and about 2000 others were stuck outside the ground with some delay in getting people through the turnstiles, so the stewards opened the emergency exits and let us in to avoid crushing outside (interesting dilemma for them to face). We were shocking in the 1st half, a hastily assembled back 4 struggled with Seville's movement while the midfield was disjointed and failed to link up with Berbs and Keane up top.

leninbenjamin wrote:

The team were booed off at half time. as bad as they were it's a little harsh no?

The fans booed Seville off, as we were seriously pissed off with their playacting whenever they got even the slightest touch (Alves went down twice in the 1st half, was told to leave the pitch for treatment then wanted back on straight away) I hate seeing that from anyone...:mad:

Second half we were better, but I never thought we'd get the four goals we needed. Glad to see some fight from the players though (Robbo pushing one of Seville's big girl's blouses off the pitch when he was feigning injury was class) and the superb reaction from our fans who never gave up singing. Was a great night even if the result didn't go our way.

I think Jol should have made changes earlier, his decision to take off Zokora was odd as both Jenas and Malbranque were worse in midfield. I'd have gone 3 at the back, and replaced Malbranque with Defoe, pushing Tainio on to the left side of midfield and played 4-3-3.

Anyway, t'was fun while it lasted.

Fratton Fred

therecklessone wrote:

The fans booed Seville off, as we were seriously pissed off with their playacting whenever they got even the slightest touch (Alves went down twice in the 1st half, was told to leave the pitch for treatment then wanted back on straight away) I hate seeing that from anyone...:mad:

Anyway, t'was fun while it lasted.

i really wanted Spurs to go through, but I'm afraid you'll get no sympathy from me regarding diving. I still remember Zokora's dive against us earlier in the season.

shame though, Jol has put a really good team togeher there and I like the style of football he plays.

leninbenjamin

Fratton Fred wrote:

shame though, Jol has put a really good team togeher there and I like the style of football he plays.

i dunno, i think Spurs won't progress under him much further. they just give away too many sloppy goals. I feel on paper that team should be doing a lot better than it is.

Lemlin

After watching the game I'm still perplexed as to how Jol is so highly regarded. He got the tactics all wrong and rushing King back was a huge mistake.

Its funny how old players come back to haunt teams and Kanoute certainly did that to Spurs.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

rushing King back was a huge mistake.

Really? Who would you have played in his place?

KdjaCL

therecklessone wrote:

Really? Who would you have played in his place?

Ifil or gardener? Both were on the bench.

kdjac

therecklessone

KdjaCL wrote:

Ifil or gardener? Both were on the bench.

kdjac

Gardner wasn't on the bench, he has a hairline fracture of his fibula and is unlikely to feature again this season.

Ifil has four starts at LB for our first team. He's never played CB. Since he made his debut at LB under Santini, we've played six other players in that position, one of them a CB and one a half-fit RB. He's also a less than stellar loan period at Millwall. Says it all really.

King played because he was ready to play. Not ideal given the game and his lack of match fitness, but considering the alternatives...

KdjaCL

Man Utd just finished their game with 4 fullbacks playing at the back granted Brown is a decent CB but he started playing RB for utd. But they still played fulllbacks.

kdjac

therecklessone

KdjaCL wrote:

Man Utd just finished their game with 4 fullbacks playing at the back granted Brown is a decent CB but he started playing RB for utd. But they still played fulllbacks.

kdjac

Evra, Heinze, Brown and Richardson?

You're comparing Philip Ifil to any of those?

:eek:

In case you missed the context, Ifil is s*it. Jol (rightly) decided a fit (but not match fit) King was a better option than a s*t (and inexperienced) Ifil.

PHB

In all fairness, United were never playing without 2 CB's with lots of international experience.

Bateman

FWIW, I thought that Jol left it too late to bring Defoe on. The willingness of Mourinho to make decisions at HT, and how often he gets it right, is something that Jol will probably learn out of experiences like that. However, it's easy to say all this now.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

Really? Who would you have played in his place?

So what you're saying is that, despite the huge amount of money Spurs have spent, they've no central defensive cover beside Gardener whatsoever? Is Rocha cup tied or where was he?

Given that King is highly prone to injury surely a centre back should be bought instead of the countless number of midfielders that end up at Portsmouth or Fulham.

I'm not overly familiar with Spurs squad TBH. Could Chimbonda or Tainio not move to CB? Lucas Neill used to do a very good job for Blackburn at CB when needed. What about moving a midfielder back into defence like Chelsea did with Essien?

Either way, Spurs' defence was all over the place for the first half. After Berbatov hit the post, it was 4 on 2 at the other end. The manager has to take some of the blame for that.

In case you missed the context, Ifil is s*it. Jol (rightly) decided a fit (but not match fit) King was a better option than a s*t (and inexperienced) Ifil.

How can you say he rightly decided? Spurs were two down inside ten minutes and their defence was all over the place.

Andrew 83

Is Ifil not a right back? I think he played there in his debut against Liverpool under Santini anyway.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

I'm not overly familiar with Spurs squad TBH.

That is blatantly obvious. For someone who claimed to watch the match you're not too familiar with events on the pitch either.

Missing from our squad last Thursday:

Gardner (CB) - injured
Dervitte (CB) - injured
Huddlestone (CB/CM) - injured
Rocha (CB) - cuptied
Lee (LB) - injured
Assou-Ekotto (LB) - injured
Stalteri (RB) - injured

That left a fully fit Dawson, the returning King and an 80% fit Chimbonda to play at the back, supplemented by Teemu Tainio, a midfielder who played right back for the entire 90 minutes.

therecklessone

Andrew 83 wrote:

Is Ifil not a right back? I think he played there in his debut against Liverpool under Santini anyway.

He did Andrew, and all his starts for us have been at RB. I'm told he's played LB for the reserves quite a bit though, and all of the speculation before Thursday was that he would play at LB in place of the two missing LBs.

Be interesting to see where he starts today, whether its on the right or left.

Guy:Incognito

Lemlin wrote:

How can you say he rightly decided? Spurs were two down inside ten minutes and their defence was all over the place.

Well there you go, first minute today and Ifil makes a crap attempt at a clearing header, puts it straight to a wigan player instead of just trying to head it out for a corner and Wigan score.

Its 2-2 now.

Running Bing

KdjaCL wrote:

Ifil or gardener? Both were on the bench.

kdjac

Lol dont watch many spurs game's do ya.

Running Bing

Fratton Fred wrote:

i really wanted Spurs to go through, but I'm afraid you'll get no sympathy from me regarding diving. I still remember Zokora's dive against us earlier in the season.

shame though, Jol has put a really good team togeher there and I like the style of football he plays.

That was an absolute disgrace. I think words were spoker to him though. Hasnt done anything like that since.

Running Bing

leninbenjamin wrote:

i dunno, i think Spurs won't progress under him much further. they just give away too many sloppy goals. I feel on paper that team should be doing a lot better than it is.

What do you mean better? we finished fifth last year missing out on fourth on the last day of the season. we have gone out in the semi's of the league cup to Arsenal, the quarters of the FA cup to chelsea and the quarters of the UEFA cup to Sevilla.


We are currently still in the fight for a european place for the league. What do you expect us to be doing?

PHB

I think that Jol is an incredible manager, and has done wonders.
Spurs will challenge top 4 next year, but I don't think they'll get it. The year after though, I think they could be a real force.

therecklessone

PHB wrote:

I think that Jol is an incredible manager

Wouldn't go that far...:D

He gets another year IMO, whatever way this season ends. Adapting to three longish cup runs is hard for a lot of teams, and the loss of Carrick was a huge body blow for Jol who was shaping our team around him. I still don't think we've adjusted properly to that.

He is also not master of his own destiny at Spurs, as he does not have complete control of transfer dealings at the club...Jol consults with Sporting Director Damien Comolli and Chairman Daniel Levy about transfer targets, but is not guaranteed final say.

Lemlin

Babybing wrote:

What do you mean better? we finished fifth last year missing out on fourth on the last day of the season. we have gone out in the semi's of the league cup to Arsenal, the quarters of the FA cup to chelsea and the quarters of the UEFA cup to Sevilla.


We are currently still in the fight for a european place for the league. What do you expect us to be doing?

With the amount of money that has been spent, I'd say winning something.

therecklessone wrote:

That is blatantly obvious. For someone who claimed to watch the match you're not too familiar with events on the pitch either.

Missing from our squad last Thursday:

Gardner (CB) - injured
Dervitte (CB) - injured
Huddlestone (CB/CM) - injured
Rocha (CB) - cuptied
Lee (LB) - injured
Assou-Ekotto (LB) - injured
Stalteri (RB) - injured

That left a fully fit Dawson, the returning King and an 80% fit Chimbonda to play at the back, supplemented by Teemu Tainio, a midfielder who played right back for the entire 90 minutes.

And how exactly is it blatantly obvious? What events on the pitch am I not familiar with?

So Jol got everything right, did he? Is that why Spurs were two down inside ten minutes? Take the Jol-tinted glasses off please.

therecklessone

Lemon wrote:

And how exactly is it blatantly obvious? What events on the pitch am I not familiar with?

It is blatantly obvious because you weren't aware that we have more CB cover than Gardner, that three of our full backs were missing, and that we moved a a midfielder back into defence for the game...just like you though we should have done...

Lemon wrote:

What about moving a midfielder back into defence like Chelsea did with Essien?

:rolleyes:

Lemon wrote:

So Jol got everything right, did he?

Where did I suggest he did? How about you read what I post rather than what you think I post? Maybe you missed this bit:

therecklessone wrote:

I think Jol should have made changes earlier, his decision to take off Zokora was odd as both Jenas and Malbranque were worse in midfield. I'd have gone 3 at the back, and replaced Malbranque with Defoe, pushing Tainio on to the left side of midfield and played 4-3-3.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

It is blatantly obvious because you weren't aware that we have more CB cover than Gardner, that three of our full backs were missing, and that we moved a a midfielder back into defence for the game...just like you though we should have done...



:rolleyes:



Where did I suggest he did? How about you read what I post rather than what you think I post? Maybe you missed this bit:

My suggestion was to move a midfielder into central defence so that King wouldn't have to play, a la when Chelsea moved Essien in. I'm more than aware that Tainio plays midfield but the discussion was about King and central defence.

And forgive me for not being up to date with every one of Spurs players. I don't support the team so I don't exactly see why I should be, can you tell me why I should be? The place is like a revolving door anyway...

Because you seem to criticise anyone who says anything against Jol. Or perhaps your problem is just with me? You do have a great history of nitpicking my posts.

I remember a rather pointless argument where you went to great lengths to say that Gus Huddink was not a manager who had consistently got the best from average teams. All because I had said that he did.

therecklessone

Lemon wrote:

Because you seem to criticise anyone who says anything against Jol.

I asked a simple question, don't throw a hissy fit just because I called you for talking out your hole.

Lemon wrote:

I remember a rather pointless argument where you went to great lengths to say that Gus Huddink was not a manager who had consistently got the best from average teams. All because I had said that he did.

Now now, don't be dragging up old arguments again, no need for that.

Running Bing

Lemlin wrote:

With the amount of money that has been spent, I'd say winning something.

We have spent £3.5 million net in the last 18 months.(see below)


What do you think we should be winning? Like I said we went out of The league cup to Arsenal and the FA cup to chelsea. Both of these teams have spent significantly more than us over the years.


We went out of UEFA to Sevilla who are currently giving Barca a run for their money in La Liga.




In:
Berbatov 10,9
Zokora 8,2
Chimbonda 5,5
Mido 4,5
Malbranque 2,5
Ghaly 2
Ekotto 3,5
Murphy 2
Alnwick 0,9

Total: £40m


Out:
Carrick 18,6
Reid 3
Davenport 3
Pamarot
Mendes
Davis 7
Kelly 0,75
Rasiak 2
Brown 2
Fulop 0,5

Total: £36,85m

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

I asked a simple question, don't throw a hissy fit just because I called you for talking out your hole.



Now now, don't be dragging up old arguments again, no need for that.

Where exactly did I talk through my hole? Would you disagree with any of these points:

1. Jol got the tactics wrong.
2. King shouldn't of been playing.
3. Spurs need better cover for CB.

Now, now, don't try to dismiss how easy it is to show your nitpicking of my posts. You've also admitted to having a chuckle at me with one of your internet pals. Something I found quite sad tbh. Still, so is having a personal vendetta against someone on the other side of a PC.

We have spent £3.5 million net in the last 18 months.(see below)

There is a huge amount of money going in and out of the club. Spurs have the best transfer kitty outside the top 4, with the exception of Newcastle maybe.

Jol has been allowed to buy pretty much whatever players he wants and still hasn't brought success.

Spurs bottled getting fourth last season and bottled the FA Cup and UEFA Cup quarter finals this year.

therecklessone

Lemlin wrote:

Where exactly did I talk through my hole? Would you disagree with any of these points:

1. Jol got the tactics wrong.
2. King shouldn't of been playing.
3. Spurs need better cover for CB.

1. Didn't I already say he should have changed things earlier than he did? Did you read my previous posts? Do I have to repeat the same point twice?

2. Disagree. King playing was the best option, given the absence of seven defenders and the inexperience and basic s*itness of the one remaining one who did not feature.

3. Spurs have 5 CBs, a CM who can play at CB and two full backs who can provide emergency cover. What part of we were missing seven defenders through injury or ineligibility is hard to understand? Are you really struggling with this?

Lemlin wrote:

Jol has been allowed to buy pretty much whatever players he wants and still hasn't brought success.

Jol doesn't have exclusive control of spending @ WHL, he is consulted along with Director of Football Damien Comolli and Chairman Daniel Levy. You'll no doubt say something like "how could I be expected to know that", but if you want to comment on a topic you know nothing about you'll have to forgive me for thinking you're talking out your hole.

Please read what I and others have said, on this thread and others, before you post again.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

1. Didn't I already say he should have changed things earlier than he did? Did you read my previous posts? Do I have to repeat the same point twice?

2. Disagree. King playing was the best option, given the absence of seven defenders and the inexperience and basic s*itness of the one remaining one who did not feature.

3. Spurs have 5 CBs, a CM who can play at CB and two full backs who can provide emergency cover. What part of we were missing seven defenders through injury or ineligibility is hard to understand? Are you really struggling with this?



Jol doesn't have exclusive control of spending @ WHL, he is consulted along with Director of Football Damien Comolli and Chairman Daniel Levy. You'll no doubt say something like "how could I be expected to know that", but if you want to comment on a topic you know nothing about you'll have to forgive me for thinking you're talking out your hole.

Please read what I and others have said, on this thread and others, before you post again.

I have read all the posts, including all your continual nitpicking.

Bottom line is that Jol is manager so I would imagine he has final say on any players that Levy and Cimmolli look at. Would you not agree?

You say Spurs have seen centre backs yet they hadn't cover Wednesday night. King should not of been on the pitch. Why wasn't Chimbonda moved to CB or Zokora? I'm still waiting for an answer on this.