Who is intending on doing maths, physics, tp after the leaving..

Nehpets

Do you think the majority of people going into CS courses know how to program already?

Naikon

Naikon wrote:

Brothers, we must unite and unanimously agree to format our current partitions and install a Unix or Linux varient on the Machine.
I am really starting to dislike Windows.
It will be worth it besides the initial frustration:D

All I'm going to say is "enjoy Lg12". If you don't know what I'm talking about, flick over this thread when you're doing CS next year

And some people know how to program before college in CS - but not all. It's not a requirement.

Lastly, I've met people (indeed, one on my first day of college!) who told me years ago what they were going to do their PhD on. Needless to say, you may change your mind while your in college.

Naikon

True, installing a windows manager and desktop environment and setting parameters which arent your typical windows "CLICK HERE" and forget procedures is more involved than installing XP for example.
A friend of mine calls it "Nerd OS" which is true to a certain degree.
I still havent covered or mastered it by any means:/

Boston

Naikon wrote:

I looked at that course, nice overall but I think that its weird that its the only CS course in Ireland that requires HL maths.
The course has a bias towards Electrical Engineering which I admit is not for me.

The level of maths involved in Computer Science course is a joke. It shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as a pure Maths or TP degree, let alone be compared with them. That said in later years you do some mildly difficult maths involving statistics. There is no Electrical Engineering elements to the course. None what so ever. There's is some basis digital electronics, which is a world away from Electrical engineering. Edit and it's the kind of stuff any decent CS course should have.

Not to say computer architecture is pointless, I do small bits of programing and understanding the machine you use at an assembly level is very usefull, just not to the atomic level which is too deep unless you intend on building computer Hardware.

This is what I have in mind

You don't go past the register transistor level, even then you seldom work at that level. It can be very relevant to designing hardware or just having the right mindset when programming code that actually has to run on hardware.

The DIT link you provided I don't see anything there bar the work placement not available at TCD.

Learn C first then C++ ,C++ assumes you know C before hand(mostly)
Besides C is the "lowest" HIGH level language and gives you control over memory management etc whereas JAVA, PERL do these things for you.
I would recommend learning some form of UNIX too, FREEBSD is my current favorite

I fundamentally disagree. C++ can do everything C can, and is far more useful. You do no need to know C in order to learn C++, infact having no prior knowledge of C is a great help in learning C++, as C programs are precedural in nature while C++ programs are object orientated. It's easy to go from an object orientated mindset to procedural mindset one, but it is difficult to do the opposite.

The only reason you see people still writing C code is because of compatibility issues with older code. You'll learn both C and C++ in CS at TCD, however you will learn C++ first from what I recall.

Also the only reason people say DIT is more "practical" then tcd is due to the work placement. The material covered is to the same standard and off a very similiar nature.

Naikon

Myth wrote:

All I'm going to say is "enjoy Lg12". If you don't know what I'm talking about, flick over this thread when you're doing CS next year

And some people know how to program before college in CS - but not all. It's not a requirement.

Lastly, I've met people (indeed, one on my first day of college!) who told me years ago what they were going to do their PhD on. Needless to say, you may change your mind while your in college.

Something to do with file executables
I think you have me.

ZorbaTehZ

Naikon wrote:

Brothers, we must unite and unanimously agree to format our current partitions and install a Unix or Linux varient on the Machine.
I am really starting to dislike Windows.
It will be worth it besides the initial frustration:D

Strange you should mention that since only three days ago I set up a Ubuntu partition.

Fobia

eZe^ wrote:

Physics in either UCC or Imperial College London. Cant wait!

I think you may be right to go to Cork for your first degree alright. My cousin's doing his PHD in imperial college (though, in maths rather than physics) after doing his degree in NUIG. He says NUIG is clown college in comparison, but were he to pick again he'd still pick NUIG - imperial college give a much better degree, but you'll work non-stop to get it. Not to mention if you're doing a masters/phd anyway your base degree doesn't bear much weight regardless.

Naikon wrote:

Brothers, we must unite and unanimously agree to format our current partitions and install a Unix or Linux varient on the Machine.
I am really starting to dislike Windows.
It will be worth it besides the initial frustration

Hehe, I'll pass. I use a shell for lots of online activities but still (mostly) use windows on my base machine. I need to use photoshop alot and just didn't take to using Wine for it. But strangely enough, some games now run even better on linux than on windows (quakeworld for one!), so the old "I needz my gamez" excuse is becoming less valid by the day

Me, after deferring for a year I'm going to do undenominated Science in NUIG probably ending up with a maths or maths physics degree. If I want to get anywhere decent in that area I'd need to do a postgrad so may as well stay at home for my base degree!

ZorbaTehZ

Fobia wrote:

. . .NUIG is clown college in comparison

Ghad I hate NUIG with a vengeance. Had to go in there today, and wtf is with all the coilíns going to college? What I actually heard two guys say:
A muise Johnny, aon craic a mhac - tu dhul isteach sa SITEEE SENNTERR le haghaidh cupla pionta?

Naikon

Boston wrote:

There is no Electrical Engineering elements to the course. None what so ever. There's is some basis digital electronics, which is a world away from Electrical engineering. Edit and it's the kind of stuff any decent CS course should have.

I see,its just that I glanced at stuff like "electro technology" which gave me a stupid reason to associate the course with Electrical Engineering:o

Boston wrote:

You don't go past the register transistor level, even then you seldom work at that level. It can be very relevant to designing hardware or just having the right mindset when programming code that actually has to run on hardware.
The DIT link you provided I don't see anything there bar the work placement not available at TCD.

I see, from a programmers perspective(minus HW development) that makes sense.

Boston wrote:

I fundamentally disagree. C++ can do everything C can, and is far more useful. You do no need to know C in order to learn C++, infact having no prior knowledge of C is a great help in learning C++, as C programs are procedural in nature while C++ programs are object orientated. It's easy to go from an object orientated mindset to procedural mindset one, but it is difficult to do the opposite.

I thought the opposite
I agree the procedural approach is different to OO approach, but I learnt programming in this fashion.

Python->C->C++.

As I mentioned I admit I am not this stage A great or experienced at programming as I have not gone through Advanced stuff like loops.arrays pointers etc. Maybe it will effect me later on.

Boston wrote:

The only reason you see people still writing C code is because of compatibility issues with older code. You'll learn both C and C++ in CS at TCD, however you will learn C++ first from what I recall..
Also the only reason people say DIT is more "practical" then tcd is due to the work placement. The material covered is to the same standard and off a very similar nature.

Really? I taught they looked a little different.
I will take your word considering you are doing EE or else CS.

Boston wrote:

The level of maths involved in Computer Science course is a joke. It shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as a pure Maths or TP degree, let alone be compared with them. That said in later years you do some mildly difficult maths involving statistics.

What confuses me is that CS in TCD requires a C3 minimum in HL maths whereas DCU DIT, UCD require a C3 or in some cases a B3 minimum in OL maths.
If the courses are of similar nature, why is there a huge difference in the level of maths required?
I mean DIT is a C3 in OL whereas TCD of a similar nature is HL C3.
Is this down to the number of maths contact hours and modules?
Is a decent score in OL maths enough?
I think I am now at a real disadvantage in terms of maths now.

Naikon

Fobia wrote:

But strangely enough, some games now run even better on linux than on windows (quakeworld for one!), so the old "I needz my gamez" excuse is becoming less valid by the day

And yet I reckon the only reason I use Windows is for games and stuff I am not confident yet with FREEBSD.
Also Multimedia stuff is pretty bad at the moment in BSD like video playback which is a nightmare to get working.
Right now I am using Mozilla in a Gnome environment.

sd123

I love maths and physics and im doing app maths and i'd love to do something like that in college but i dont know about the different courses or where to go. i cant go to any nui's for most courses. anyone have any recommendations?

Boston

From the PDF nothing stands out to me. It might be that I'm able to translate some of the things which are phrased differently in the DIT course, into the equivalent TCD CS course.

As for the maths, you require a certain types of maths for CS. You need a head for numbers and the ability to think logically. Now by placing a requirement for honours maths they can start off at a certain level, while having a lower requirement it may require longer to bring people up to a certain level. I wouldn't get stressed about it or developing feeling of being at a disadvantage.

As for C++/C, the main power of C and C++ for that matter comes from pointers and their manipulation. Until you get to that level you'll not be able to judge the two properly.

Boston

sd123 wrote:

I love maths and physics and im doing app maths and i'd love to do something like that in college but i dont know about the different courses or where to go. i cant go to any nui's for most courses. anyone have any recommendations?

Well why can't you go to the NUI's, is it the language requirement? Trinity accept irish as a second langauge.

Raphael

Getting back towards the original topic, I'm currently most way through 1st TP in UCD, so if anyone has any questions about the course or UCD itself, then feel free to ask. Inside scoop and all that jazz .

JC 2K3

Naikon wrote:

IWhat confuses me is that CS in TCD requires a C3 minimum in HL maths whereas DCU DIT, UCD require a C3 or in some cases a B3 minimum in OL maths.
If the courses are of similar nature, why is there a huge difference in the level of maths required?
I mean DIT is a C3 in OL whereas TCD of a similar nature is HL C3.
Is this down to the number of maths contact hours and modules?
Is a decent score in OL maths enough?
I think I am now at a real disadvantage in terms of maths now.

Nah you're not really. HL Maths for TCD is simply a prestige thing.

lemansky

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well of course, I'm referring more to the apparently inherent need some people have to tell the world how amazing physics is.

well yes of course!theres no need for everyone to know how amazing physics is:D but this is moe for people to share their views on the courses.Through this they can gain info on the courses and talk with like minded people about it.If people don't wanna read about the subject then they don't have to come here!

lemansky

sd123 wrote:

I love maths and physics and im doing app maths and i'd love to do something like that in college but i dont know about the different courses or where to go. i cant go to any nui's for most courses. anyone have any recommendations?

well if you love maths and physics then i would suggest that you do a course which focuses in specifically on those things,rather than do them as part of perhaps a more general science degree.That way you cover as much of them as possible without running the risk of finding yourself having to study some things you don't like.Are you more interested in the experimental side of physics or the theoretical side?Because that knowledge would allow people to help you out more:)

sd123

it's because i dont have a foreign language I think i can go to DCU TCD and IT's.At the moment my first choice is med. in TCD, but i'm strongly thinking of changing. I'd say its more the theory part of physics, like doing alot of maths, O and i don't like the electricity/ static elect and magnet areas but love mechanics and everything else. but im not really sure what to do. Maybe my subject choice for the LC would help. Phy Chem Mat APP mat Bio Tec draw Eng Iri. After that i dont know. The career guidance is pretty bad in my school. :mad: Im gonna show my ignorance now and ask whats the difference between different physics courses?

dan719

The key difference between theoretical physics and an experimental physics degree is the level of maths required. Assuming you go to TCD, you will be studying the equivalent of 5/6 of a pure maths degree as part of tp. however by studying science you will avoid most of this maths. Your choice depends on how mathematically inclined you are. Also it is possible to change from tp to experimental physics, but not the other way around.

Pure Cork

sd123 wrote:

it's because i dont have a foreign language I think i can go to DCU TCD and IT's.At the moment my first choice is med. in TCD, but i'm strongly thinking of changing. I'd say its more the theory part of physics, like doing alot of maths, O and i don't like the electricity/ static elect and magnet areas but love mechanics and everything else. but im not really sure what to do. Maybe my subject choice for the LC would help. Phy Chem Mat APP mat Bio Tec draw Eng Iri. After that i dont know. The career guidance is pretty bad in my school. :mad: Im gonna show my ignorance now and ask whats the difference between different physics courses?

Have you thought about engineering? It's all maths. I don't think you need a language to do engineering in UCD either.

Career guidance is crap in every school.....

dan719

Just wondering does anyone know if it is possible to get Lee Smolin's new book somewhere in Ireland for less then forty euros?

Nehpets

Not sure, but try Chapters maybe. Not sure if you have Chapters down in wexford though.

PurpleFistMixer

I'm thinking either pure maths or theoretical physics after the leaving. In Trinity most likely as it's the closest (not including UCD... not fond of UCD).
That or pastry making in DIT. Or... graphic design somewhere or other.

What's putting me off maths currently is the possibility that it's something like the maths for the maths olympíad, which would probably result in me going crazy.

lemansky

dan719 wrote:

Just wondering does anyone know if it is possible to get Lee Smolin's new book somewhere in Ireland for less then forty euros?

Whats the name of it?

lemansky

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

I'm thinking either pure maths or theoretical physics after the leaving. In Trinity most likely as it's the closest (not including UCD... not fond of UCD).
That or pastry making in DIT. Or... graphic design somewhere or other.

What's putting me off maths currently is the possibility that it's something like the maths for the maths olympíad, which would probably result in me going crazy.

I wouldn't worry about the *******d stuff.I thought about that as well but then i realised that both years i went i still had to cover the basics of the areas that they were teaching....take induction for example.He glossed over it at the *******d assuming we all understood it.WE all got so pissed off there that we ended up playing monopoly on my phone during the lectures.Having covered the lc i now look back at the *******d stuff and i understand the areas now-and even the stuff on the *******d thats beyond the lc is now easy to understand,as my maths ability has been improved by the lc between now and then.What i'm sayin is don't get hung up on the *******d!

ZorbaTehZ

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

What's putting me off maths currently is the possibility that it's something like the maths for the maths olympíad, which would probably result in me going crazy.

Math's *******d stuff was pretty leet imo. Really interesting.

dan719

Its called the 'downfall of physics-the rise of string theory and 21st century physics'. I read it for about an hour in the shop today and it is very interesting, but well...I don't have forty euros.:(

lemansky

yea thats pretty steep alright...i'll ask around and search online!As you know i know knowledgable people who have a lot of those books....

lemansky

Pure Cork wrote:

Career guidance is crap in every school.....

true

PurpleFistMixer

lemansky wrote:

I wouldn't worry about the *******d stuff.I thought about that as well but then i realised that both years i went i still had to cover the basics of the areas that they were teaching....take induction for example.He glossed over it at the *******d assuming we all understood it.WE all got so pissed off there that we ended up playing monopoly on my phone during the lectures.Having covered the lc i now look back at the *******d stuff and i understand the areas now-and even the stuff on the *******d thats beyond the lc is now easy to understand,as my maths ability has been improved by the lc between now and then.What i'm sayin is don't get hung up on the *******d!

It's funny how the word keeps getting starred out...
But yeah, they really do assume stuff... like the first time modulo arithmetic came up your man was just like "alright, without any explaining at all, lets start proving really difficult things with this."
It is interesting, just they assume an awful lot.