Childfree

Thrill

dame wrote:

By the way, are all childfree women fit and toned visions of perfection? That's what you'd think reading some of their comments!

Thats a poor generalization of childfree women.

I haven't seen any of those who wish to remain childfree claiming
to be toned or perfect.
They have said that they respect peoples decision to have children.
They would like to be given the same respect in return.

missfrilly

there certainly seems to a very hostile stance taken by some posters in this thread. some women like children and want to be mothers. some men like children and want to be fathers. this makes them happy. others like me dont want children and can have equally fulfilling lives and be happy. But the issue of 1 parent families and unplanned pregnancies is comletely seperate.Granted some young women get pregnant very very young and may regret starting their family before they had a chance to do thngs like travel , go to college or anything else they may have wanted to do. But I firmly believe that these women made the decision to have their child knowing what sacrifices they would have to make. They knew getting their education, a job a place to live would be harder but to them its worth it.Not every single parent is a mindless dumb thug! Most appear to be fully operational intelligent people who made a mistake got caught out and got over it.Continued with their lives only on a slightly different path.

Whilst I dont agree with lilkittens arguments I can sort of see her point with regard to those in reciept of state benefit. I myself have seen first hand a friend actually calculate while she was stil lpregnant how much she would get and what allowances she was entitled to.she then came to the conclusion ..aaaaaa its not worth my while going back to work.And she was right.It wasn't.It made more economic sense for her to stay at home out of education out of employment at 21 looking after her baby 24/7. There was no incentive what so ever for her to return to education or the workplace.And yes it was her fault she got pregnant by pretending she was on the pill.And yes why should anyone bail her out especially her peers who worked 20hours a week while still in school and college and paying tax on those 20 hours. But, thats what taxes are for. If I had to go to hospital with some ailment or I couldnt work for whatever reason I would receive help as would lilkitten.Of course people SOME people will take advantage of the states financial offerings but that doesnt make All single parents scroungers . It doesnt make them some sort of underclass to be ridiculed . It makes them peole who made a mistake dealt with that mistakes consequences and are getting on with things as best they can , all the while keeping their childs best interest at heart.

Nevyn

Thrill earlier in the thread ti was stated that having children made you fat, flabby and saggy.

HashSlinging

I'd like to add something here about children and how amazing they are, what they give to a persons life every single day. Being child free and having time to yourself can never replace the joy and appreciation they give, something everyone in life should experience at some stage, and these days no matter what age they are.

I just cant get my head around what happened in wexford yesterday as a father of two similarly aged children I'm heart broken looking at the pictures on the hearld AM. Little Leanne securely resting her hand on her mams arm.


RIP Little angles..

Owen

HashSlinging wrote:

I'd like to add something here about children and how amazing they are

They're only amazing to people pre-disposed to wanting kids. I certainly don't find them amazing.

ellenmelon

HashSlinging wrote:

Being child free and having time to yourself can never replace the joy and appreciation they give, something everyone in life should experience at some stage, and these days no matter what age they are...

im sorry, but i really have to respectfully disagree. they way your comment reads, is that not having children means that you will never experience joy etc. in being childfree you can experience joy and appreciation and all the other things but they are experienced differently and defined differently to when you're speaking about having kids.

im sorry, but your comment offends me slightly, but i know that you didnt mean it that way.

HashSlinging

Ok then me trying not to offend any fellow boardsers, as a dad I can say that i get as much joy from my children now as I did when spending time by myself whether or not I was single or not but childfree.

I totally respect the choice of not having children, i think it represents a respect in the same way having them does.

Burning Eclipse

dame wrote:

Really? As a student teacher have you really actually come across all of this...or have you just heard about it in lectures? :rolleyes:

Thank you dame for outing lil kitten.

Lil Kitten you are a fuckin spoof merchant. I noticed from your other posts that you're goin to Kenya this summer, sounds like some girls I know in MIC, which puts you about halfway through your degree, if even, what a joke! This makes your ignorant comments now seem even more so!

ellenmelon

HashSlinging wrote:

Ok then me trying not to offend any fellow boardsers, as a dad I can say that i get as much joy from my children now as I did when spending time by myself whether or not I was single or not but childfree.

I totally respect the choice of not having children, i think it represents a respect in the same way having them does.

well, thats completely different to what you said before but i get what you're saying.

my godson's(yes! i know! a person that doesnt want to have kids has a godson!?) mum, who is also my best friend has a similar life to what she had before, but different. and she was the last person i expected (she says that too!) to have a kid, but she did.

---

also, i think that the couple of randoms on here that obviously dont like children are often in the minority. i actually dont hate kids, i just dislike the actions of them eg screaming which often is a phase, i know. and not all kids are like that, i know!
when i think about having kids, im just like..its hard to explain but i dont get that feeling that women(and men i spose?) get when they think about having a child with the man/woman that they love. my mum said that when i am in a long-term relationship with someone i love that i may change my mind. that hasnt happened and my current boyfriend of over three years doesnt want children either.

i can see how those who dont want kids get rarked up about people saying "when are ye going to start a family...sure, this house/car/etc isnt big enough for kids!", especially if they get married. but theres no need to rip into people who want to have kids. (though there are the people who you think should NEVER have reproduced but thats another story)
sometimes you have to choose your moments when it comes to talking about you not wanting to have kids, especially around friends and family that really want to have kids and are offended if you go "ugh! small children!"...especially my good friends that i met when i used to be really involved with youth groups etc..they all want kids, and most that married young have "honeymoon babies" lol..good catholics they are...they get offended so i just dont talk to them about it.and there are the people out there that cant have kids at all...

anyway....

G&T

What is it with people who make you justify your decision.
I do have kid's but would never question anothers choices.
Your decision is right for you.
You only get judged on one decision,when you do have kid's
you have to answer to others on how you rear them for their whole lives.

Miss Judy

Lil Kitten, if the likes of you are training to be a teacher well god help the nation!!!:D . You have got to be the most messed up, ignorant, jealous, thick, cold hearted, unloving, screaming out of professional help case I have EVER come across.
I laughed out loud at your crap, really you are a sad case and prompts me to contact the dept of education in relation to concerns I would have about who is let teach in our schools. Mods, you should consider checking her IP address if she claims to be who she says she is and what she does I reckon she should be reported for abusive use of the internet wherever she is posting from. If it's home, well then she's a liar and on the dole.:p

Did you ever ask the question where you came from you idiot??..your childhood must have been miserable for you to write such crap and abuse parents like this. You were in nappies before, wet the bed, threw food all over the place, took tantrums, threw up but you probably gave moments of joy to your poor parents & they probably showed you off (yes their little bundle of joy...we all start somewhere!):eek:

I love being a mum and I'm a young one at that and happily married. Wouldn't change my life for the world, the laughs we have and love is unreal. There are hard times but we all get through those stages easily. When I was single & no ties yes I was happy, had a great life and I was not mad about kids, the thoughts of having kids was never something I gave much thought to until I became pregnant on my first baby & my two are the best things that ever happened to me.
How dare you insult parents, my friends & I all have kids now and shock! we have a life too. We are as happy but the difference between people like us and ignorant pups like you is intelligence and enjoying life.

Thing is, alot of you posting that parents are jealous of childfree people, that is a lie and the fact that you have to hide behind a username to say it proves everything. In my line of work etc anyone I know thinks I am very lucky to be a parent and envious of me & my lovely little family, never any hostility of nasty remarks. A girl at work & her hubby are struggling to have a baby & it's horrible to see how it's upsetting them & what they are going through. Thing is, she once told me she used to have an attitude towards kids & parents...she is now 37 & it's all she wants and she wishes she tried years ago instead of sniggering. She is 8 years older than me & wishes she did what I did, have them young and enjoy life. At least I support her through her current journey, god love her if she knew the likes of you!

You should seek councelling as you have severe issues and you should NOT be teaching with the attitude you have.

BTW...I don't think it's anyones business should someone choose whether to have kids or not and nobody should be judged. It's your life....so what you want with it and what makes you happy. Each to their own, but don't be ignorant & abusive about it.

nesf

Miss Judy banned for abuse.

Catari Jaguar

Miss Judy wrote:

Lil Kitten, if the likes of you are training to be a teacher well god help the nation!!!:D . You have got to be the most messed up, ignorant, jealous, thick, cold hearted, unloving, screaming out of professional help case I have EVER come across.

I actually care about children and their welfare and want to help them become what they are capable of. I think that many (not all, I'm sure you're all model parents) deserve something more than what they are receiving. It's an unfortuante thing when a teacher or a school, like I said previously, is the one who is giving some children their stability and structure. It doesn't make me bitter, it makes me feel sad.

To all who "outed" me, I have 2 weeks of college left before I graduate. I took a year out, including months of subbing. I have taught all age groups in a least 10 schools including fee paying, inner city disavantaged and special needs schools. Yes, I have personally witnessed all of what I said. It can be sad and difficult, I taught in a school that had a breakfast club and gave out lunch because the majority of kids had no lunch. The teachers also had toothbrushes and tooth paste and combs in the class becuase of the kids hygeine levels. Yes, in modern Ireland.

I hate seeing my little cousins crash and burn from their parents divorce, my friends who have had single parents and latch key kids with two working parents that are bitter against the world and messed up. Many young kids do wreck my head when I see them outside, because they are not getting what they need and acting out, just general bratty behaviour because that's what gets them noticed and they get another toy or sweet to shut them up. It sickens me. I don't want to be one of those parents. I have no right to fcuk up a child like that.

If I didn't care for children and want to help them, why would I volunteer to teach in Africa? No, I don't live at home. Don't forget that a real teacher was but a student a summer holiday ago. And no, you don't have to be around long to make a valuable impact on a child's life.

So you can retract your slander and personal abuse.

I am in no way ready to have children. I don't have the time or energy and frankly, I don't think I'll want one of my own. When I'm married, settled, have travelled and can give the child the stabiltiy, love and time it needs without compromising them to satisfy my self, I may have a planned pregnancy. But not for at least 12 years, til my late 30s. I've been turned of by too many episode of Supernanny

Look, I don't care if you want babies. I don't care if you think it's the only thing in the world for you. What I do care is that if you have children they are raised right; as decent, happy, well rounded, functioning individuals. I stand by my comments of having children for the wrong reasons. They're not puppies, they're children. There should be no selfish reasons in having a child. And not even because they bring YOU joy. Leave us non baby havers alone to live our lives the way we want.

nesf

There's no point in responding to people who have been banned tbh.

Burning Eclipse

Lil Kitten wrote:

I actually care about children and their welfare and want to help them become what they are capable of.

I'll use another quote from you to reply :

Lil Kitten wrote:

lil sh*ts. Kids under 8 are not for me.

Course you want to help them, just not the young ones.:rolleyes: Oh, and as for the "challenge of moulding them into decent human beings" if you were any sort of teacher you'd know that the early years in a childs life are most important in formative terms.

Lil Kitten wrote:

If I didn't care for children and want to help them, why would I volunteer to teach in Africa? No, I don't live at home. Don't forget that a real teacher was but a student a summer holiday ago.

Because every year the Irish colleges send girls out there, it's the done thing, 10/12 of ye will go out, come back with braids in your hair and be bestest friends. And to be able to talk about the life defining experience you had helping disadvantaged orphans in Kenya to a board of management in an interview. You'll need that help because if someone picks up on your attitude to children under 8, or the fact that you're only interested in teaching 4-6th class, them you're gonna have a tough time becoming a teacher, what with it hinging on actually teaching for a year, post grad!

Lil Kitten wrote:

So you can retract your slander and personal abuse.

No thanks.

dame

Burning Eclipse has made a good reply there, Lil Kitten. In regard to the teaching in Kenya this summer, I'd just like to add that it doesn't impress me much either. It's a holiday. You'll be heading off with your friends and you'll have done some fundraising beforehand so it woun't even be costing you personally very much. It's also obvious that you won't be there for very long. You'll have to be back in Ireland for most of the summer in order to apply for teaching posts and attend interviews. Don't bother to come back here and say you have that organised already because you don't. Teaching posts for the following September aren't usually advertised until the summer. Kenya happens to be a lovely country with friendly people, safari and a fabulous coastline. There are far more troubled spots in Africa and the world at large. It also has lots of sunshine. I'd be more impressed with your philanthropic notions if you were going somewhere a bit colder, more dangerous or more inhospitable. I know you'll hate this but I'd also be marginally more impressed if you were going to do something a bit harder while you were there; manual labour all day every day building a school or clinic for example. However, I hope you enjoy your couple of hours teaching each day before you head off out in the sunshine. I'm sure you'll have plenty of wonderful experiences to help you in your interviews and the photo opportunities will be great.

Lil kitten wrote:

I am in no way ready to have children. I don't have the time or energy and frankly, I don't think I'll want one of my own. When I'm married, settled, have travelled and can give the child the stabiltiy, love and time it needs without compromising them to satisfy my self, I may have a planned pregnancy. But not for at least 12 years, til my late 30s.

Plan away. Mother nature will decide.
By the way, if you did something else rather than watch Supernanny you'd have more time and probably more energy too!

nesf

Lil Kitten wrote:

Don't forget that a real teacher was but a student a summer holiday ago.

Actually, screw it, this comment hit a nerve with me.

There is an enormous gap between studying to become a teacher and actually teaching as a job. Making such comparisons is utterly pointless. It's the same with a final year engineer and one with a year's experience actually working in the field, or an intern and a medical student etc. The gap between the student and the worker is wide in many ways and young students seem to forget this important point when trying to sound like they have authority on something simply because they've spent a few years as an undergrad studying it.

If you don't believe me, look back at your posts here one year from now (assuming you get a job some place) and think about how much your attitudes and abilities have changed. Believe me you will have matured quite a lot in the intervening time period.

Pepe LeFrits

thrill wrote:

If the intelligent become extinct, then surely that would be natural selection.
We become intelligent to the point that nature kicks in and suppresses the
instinct to procreate, for the survival of the species.

Natures population control.

Thrill theory:)

I think you missed the part where the stupid continue to breed like rabbits. It's anything but population control!

nesf

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

I think you missed the part where the stupid continue to breed like rabbits. It's anything but population control!

Evolution obviously favours people with low IQ scores.

Nevyn

Lil Kitten wrote:

Yes, I have personally witnessed all of what I said. It can be sad and difficult, I taught in a school that had a breakfast club and gave out lunch because the majority of kids had no lunch. The teachers also had toothbrushes and tooth paste and combs in the class becuase of the kids hygeine levels. Yes, in modern Ireland.

My childrens school as a breakfast club but they do not advail of it but it is
also used by parents to drop thier children into school early and so to get away to work as well as catering for those who are suffering child poverty.

Cases of child poverty and child neglect do need to be acted upon and there is not enough done to help those childre who's parent either can not or will
not do the basics of keeping thier child feed and clean never mind teaching them manners and respect.

But this is not all children or all families and it is wrong to assume that this is the fate of most children in Ireland.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I hate seeing my little cousins crash and burn from their parents divorce, my friends who have had single parents and latch key kids with two working parents that are bitter against the world and messed up.

Life is hard.
Everyone has things they have to learn to survive and get over we can't wrap children up in cotten wool we can only try and do our best for them.

I certainly do worry about the alienated teens who get all things and money they want but don't get time with thier parents and who are living far to adult a life with out supervision.

Just because you are or come from a single parent family does not mean it is disfunctional or uncaring or bad for a child or that a child will suffer from neglect you are making vast generailstions.

I would cetainly hate to be a parent dealin with you as a teacher of one of my children if you have such little reguard for all parents.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Many young kids do wreck my head when I see them outside, because they are not getting what they need and acting out, just general bratty behaviour because that's what gets them noticed and they get another toy or sweet to shut them up. It sickens me. I don't want to be one of those parents. I have no right to fcuk up a child like that.

You don't have to be. You can either not have children or you can make the effort and take the time to rear them properly.
There are plenty of parenting courses and support both phonelines and groups in schools and on line. You don't have to try and struggle in a vacum.

Lil Kitten wrote:

If I didn't care for children and want to help them,

Running down parents and those who have children will not help them.

Lil Kitten wrote:

And no, you don't have to be around long to make a valuable impact on a child's life.

True the more people that a child has in thier life who has time for them and they know loves them the better.
The more adults who they see and who are reinforcing the rules that they see as thier parents the better.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I am in no way ready to have children. I don't have the time or energy and frankly, I don't think I'll want one of my own. When I'm married, settled, have travelled

With the average life span being 70 there is plenty of time to live your life and
do what you want after the children have grown up.

I know 20 years of resposibilty seems daunting to a person in their 20s but
it mean the children are reared while you are in your late 40s early 50s.

Lil Kitten wrote:

and can give the child the stabiltiy, love and time it needs without compromising them to satisfy my self, I may have a planned pregnancy.

There is no 'right' time to have children. All the couples I know that waited for the 'right' time are or have had fertiltiy issues.

Lil Kitten wrote:

But not for at least 12 years, til my late 30s.

Well I hope for your sake if you do choose to have a child at that age that you are able to and don't suffer from any age related difficulties or have your age affect the health of the child.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I've been turned of by too many episode of Supernanny

FFs don't watch it. not all children and parents are lilke that those are extreme cases ffs.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Look, I don't care if you want babies. I don't care if you think it's the only thing in the world for you. What I do care is that if you have children they are raised right; as decent, happy, well rounded, functioning individuals.

All good parents want that.

Lil Kitten wrote:

I stand by my comments of having children for the wrong reasons. They're not puppies, they're children. There should be no selfish reasons in having a child. And not even because they bring YOU joy. Leave us non baby havers alone to live our lives the way we want.

So children should be concieved by accident not becasue a couple wants to be a parents ?

constitutionus

stovelid wrote:

Maybe will get shot down for this but the OP was in her mid 30's. The point I took was that she was at an age where society really started judging about ticking clocks etc (forgive me if I got wrong end of stick, OP).

Obviously there are exceptions to this but the majority of posters now seem to be early to mid 20's, the age group that you would expect to be mostly dead set against kids.

An awful lot of people I knew when I was in my mid 20's (including me) were dead set against kids and nearly all of them completely changed tack as they got older.

I thought the orignal topic was more interesting TBH, that is, mid 30s people, especially women, that are still quite happy to be childfree.

well in fairness to the OP 75% of women do end up having kids wheather theyre married or not so she is in the vast minority, and hey remember the lesbians are in that total figure so she's probably in real terms only representative of approx 15% of the population of irish women. (dont ask where i got the 75% figure, i tend to remember interesting stats i hear on the radio and i cant remember what the progaram was on. i want to say CSO figures but it couldve been on european fertility rates !)

that said i still dont see how she's discriminated against. ok there maybe a feeling of social exclusion from family friendly events like christening and some such but i dont see how your career could be affected by it or what service's would be denied you for being childless.

by the way im 34 and have been against having kids since i was 16.

but to all those dismissing the powerful effect of it its worth remembering that when men become fathers their brains actually become "feminised" thanks to all the paternal hormones sloshing about. though i know about this from science programs ive actually seen this in action with my own brother. he went from a dyed in the wool slut to a sandle wearing hippie when his daughter was born. from what ive seen it really does change your whole personality in certain cases so dont underestimate it. and hey your right on the age thing. im not as repelled by the notion as i was and i do catch myself smiling at babies when theyre looking at me on the bus with their usual gormless expression but its just not for me. of course all my brothers have kids so maybe i dont have the preasure to preserve the family name.

Thrill

Thaedydal wrote:

Thrill earlier in the thread ti was stated that having children made you fat, flabby and saggy.

Now that you mention it, i do recall those words being used earlier on in the thread. It was such a long read that i had forgotten a lot of it by the time i reached the end.

Suffice it to say, it too was a poor generalization as well.

Burning Eclipse

constitutionus wrote:

but to all those dismissing the powerful effect of it its worth remembering that when men become fathers their brains actually become "feminised" thanks to all the paternal hormones sloshing about. though i know about this from science programs ive actually seen this in action with my own brother. he went from a dyed in the wool slut to a sandle wearing hippie when his daughter was born. from what ive seen it really does change your whole personality in certain cases so dont underestimate it.

Had to quote this because I found that hilarious, but also because I've seen the rest of this happen myself! Wouldn't say I've seen it change personalities, but certainly balance a persons brain more.

Mrs M

I just wanted to add, my husband and I are childfree and we love our life and lifestyle. Being CF is not for everyone but it's not a negative as some parents presume.

Anyway due to constant comments by parents such as 'who will come to your funeral’, ‘who will look after you in your old age’, ‘you do not know what love is to you have a child' (all utter trash I may say). I started a community just for the childfree to come and rant or just to express their opinions with like minded people. Those of you who are CF you are welcome to join us.



<snip>

DublinWriter

Mrs M wrote:

Anyway due to constant comments by parents such as 'who will come to your funeral’, ‘who will look after you in your old age’

It always makes me laugh when parents automatically assume that their kids will do this for them eventually.

The only sure way to be looked after in your old age is with a decent pension fund and health insurance.

Nevyn

I often wonder why such momvements are called child free rather then offspring free.
Just because a couple or a person has decided not to have children of thier own ie not to have any off spring that does not mean there are no children in thier life.

Just because a person is not a parent that does not mean they have no contact with children in thier lives.

Child/offspring/progeny free should not mean child intolerant.

simu

Mrs M wrote:

<snip>

I see references to mothers as "moos" and "wombmen". Such wit!! If people don't want kids, that's fine but why would you define yourself so much by the choice not to have kids? It's not that unusual. I know a fair few people who haven't reproduced and they don't seem to be too bothered about this. Is the "childfree" movement just another example of people who want to feel they're being victimised in some way so they can rant?

Nevyn

The childfree hardcore sites and live journals are worse.

SimpleSam06

Thread bumping / site pimping / support group refugees ftl.

Terry

simu wrote:

I see references to mothers as "moos" and "wombmen". Such wit!! If people don't want kids, that's fine but why would you define yourself so much by the choice not to have kids? It's not that unusual. I know a fair few people who haven't reproduced and they don't seem to be too bothered about this. Is the "childfree" movement just another example of people who want to feel they're being victimised in some way so they can rant?

Ahh, they have niche groups for everything these days.

In other news, these people piss me off.
I'm a man and I want a child and the only reason I don't have one is because I'm too ugly to get laid.