Childfree

stcatherine

Thank you hun. It's sh1tty but we've been blessed with one healthy little boy so I can't complain.
Also should have added that I didn't start trying for a family until I was 28 and that was considered 'late' but I waited until I found the right man.
Christ ( On a bike ), when my Mum was my age she had 2 teenage daughters ...... Now that is a scary thought !!

Dudess

Well I hope you have more children, I really do - when you so clearly want them.
I'm surprised 28 was considered late only six years ago. Although I suppose it depends on what way you see things. And, as you said, your mum had two teens when she was 34 - holy crap! I'm 29, when my mum was my age she had a four-year-old and a two-year-old - I think people considered her to have left things quite late (that was back in the early seventies).
If I choose to have children, it will be when I'm at least your age. I know that's pushing it biologically, but it's a risk I'm gonna take.

Tha Gopher

Sinead_g wrote:

I know we are a minority to be childfree and childless while being happy, but There ought to be others like me out there!!
Why do others make me feel guilty for this choice? Why can they not respect it and let me be?

Does anyone know any organizations that can help me. I'd like to meet other childfree, I wouldn't feel so alone then..

I really feel discriminated against.

Jesus, what a drama queen. Who discriminated against you? Do people really nag and nag about it? Being the age that I am (22) none of my friends are married, but in 13 years if Ive friends that are married and dont have kids, im not going to push the question, primarily because for all i know they are having difficulty conceiving and the last thing you need is some gobsh1te harping on about it. While i personally wouldnt stick with a woman who didnt want kids (and lets face it, despite the comments in this thread its pretty rare in Ireland, quite common among mainland women though), i couldnt give a bollix if you do or do not have any. If it wasnt for the cost of living id say most women here would still be having four plus like they did until maybe the mid 90s (most of my friends are from families of 4). Having said all of the above i must say i get the impression that people ive worked with who had their kids aged 26 or below seem to be generally happier people than people in their mid 30s who think time has ran out.

Lil Kitten wrote:

Cos kids in a class are well behaved. Kids out in public with parents aren't.

What? Its the opposite. Kids know the teacher isnt going to give them a clip round the ear (although they do know they will get one if the oul fella and the teacher get talking about their behaviour )

Dudess

Tha Gopher wrote:

While i personally wouldnt stick with a woman who didnt want kids

Who knows? Your perfect woman might be someone who doesn't want to have kids, and you might find yourself compromising.

and lets face it, despite the comments in this thread its pretty rare in Ireland, quite common among mainland women though

Again, I don't know whether that's true. Of all the people I know who are my age (late 20s) a total of ONE of them has a child (and he was unplanned).

If it wasnt for the cost of living id say most women here would still be having four plus

I'd say it's more because of choosing to leave it too late for four pregnancies, rather than the cost of living aspect.

i must say i get the impression that people ive worked with who had their kids aged 26 or below seem to be generally happier people than people in their mid 30s who think time has ran out.

I can't say I've spotted such a pattern.

There is a lower birth rate than that of our parents' generation so I don't think you're right in assuming that women in general want to have four kids. People are availing of birth control, spending more time on their education, travelling, choosing to wait until their mid 30s to settle down. That's not denial - you're still young in your early 30s and many people still want to be without ties at that stage.

Tha Gopher

Dudess wrote:

There is a lower birth rate than that of our parents' generation so I don't think you're right in assuming that women in general want to have four kids. People are availing of birth control, spending more time on their education, travelling, choosing to wait until their mid 30s to settle down.

I honestly think most of the lads from families of four were from parents who used BC (even thinking of their oul pairs in such terms is toe curling ) But to put it simply, theres a reason your mates are all from families of four, their parents from families of 8 and their grandparents families of 12, and that being the increase in birth control. My oul pair were married 3 years before i was born, the oul one was in her late 20s (she would be considered a youngish mother now, in the 80s it made her a late starter, most of the mothers of my mates the same age are at least 4 years younger). She kept working until the economy went tits up in 84 odd and she was made redundant, so it was probably the best decision.

As for me comprimising with a girl in this situation, I think the attitude to kids is something you would discover fairly early in a relationship and so you would know about it before you were in too deep.

Tha Gopher

Lil Kitten wrote:

I don't hang out with my friends who have had kids. All they want to do is get really pissed cos they're depressed because they had accidental pregnancies in their late teens and they know they've ruined their life. Degrees thrown away, a chance at a future is gone, still living at home while the tax payer picks up the tab. Many of the babies have no contact with their fathers. It's something that i completely disagree with and to go along with them would be hypocritical.

.

Honestly, you are talking out of your arse.

How many of your millions of friends had the above experience? As a test i decided to measure it up, I have 40 friends from my locality on bebo (this area being not the most well off, and therefore might have a media image of being thronged with teen mothers), if i only include the ones aged 18-23 it brings it down to about 36. A total of 2, or one in 18, just over 5%, was a parent before the age of 20. Yes, skangers pump out kids early like its no tomorrow, and if my bebo friiend list comprised entirely of people who have slideshows showing various yoke brands and who listed DJ Pikey Rankin in their music list, the amount with kids might be 40%. But unless all your old mates were skangers im dying to hear how many of them had kids in their late teens (hey, a few of my old mates in my youth were skangery scum fcuks who would rob their own granny. A few of the lads I pal`d around with from jr infants plus 12 more years grew up to be some dodgy fcuks. And, like you, i dont go drinking with them these days either, although a main reason would be they are already barred from most of the local pubs)

dame

Dudess wrote:

People are availing of birth control, spending more time on their education, travelling, choosing to wait until their mid 30s to settle down. That's not denial - you're still young in your early 30s and many people still want to be without ties at that stage.

Yes, and you're also still young in your late 40's, early 50's. Personally, I'd like to retire young like my parents. Make your fortune, rear the kiddies, then when the youngest one is through college retire, relax, travel and enjoy life with the security of having earned enough to do exactly what you want.

Then again, some people like to travel for a few years when they're young, then establish a career, then find a partner, settle down, take a bit of a break from the career to have and raise kids, then work right up to and even beyond retirement age to fund kids education (which gets longer all the time) and help them out for their couple of years travelling etc.

Leaving having kids til later is a lot more of a risk than simply the risk of not be able to have them, but all that's been discussed before.

lezizi

Im 22 and i love my son, hes 16 weeks today aww. I wouldnt change a thing and im glas i started young i want to retire early too. My friends think Im mad they dont want to have kids till their 30's. Different strokes for different folks.

Dudess

Lezizi, congrats on your little babby - they're so gorgeous at that age! And to you and Dame, I'm certainly not criticising your choices to have children young. As you said, Lezizi, different strokes for different folks. Absolutely.
The way I see it though, if I have my first child at 37 at the latest (and I know that's reducing my chances fertility-wise greatly, but in the event that things go according to plan) I will be 57 when they are 20, which to me is absolutely fine. My mum and dad are in their early 60s and exceptionally youthful. My best mate's parents are in their mid and late 60s and their eldest is 28, youngest is 23. I never saw them as really old parents. So being an "older" parent isn't a concern for me. Plus, the stuff like travelling etc - that can be done in my 60s at retirement age. It's what my parents are doing now.
For me, my mid-30s at the earliest would be the right time to start having kids. But that's just me. I'd prefer to be going out socialising etc whenever I feel like it up to the first half of my 30s, rather than using my 40s to do so. I'd prefer to be spending my 40s raising kids.
However, my uncle didn't become a father for the first time until he was nearly 50 (his wife is nine years younger) - that certainly is pushing it. He's 56 now with three children under six. While he's ecstatically happy, he must be absolutely shattered.

RainyDay

Dudess wrote:

The way I see it though, if I have my first child at 37 at the latest (and I know that's reducing my chances fertility-wise greatly, but in the event that things go according to plan) I will be 57 when they are 20, which to me is absolutely fine.

For me, my mid-30s at the earliest would be the right time to start having kids. But that's just me. I'd prefer to be going out socialising etc whenever I feel like it up to the first half of my 30s, rather than using my 40s to do so. I'd prefer to be spending my 40s raising kids.

The old line about 'Give God a laugh - tell him your plans' springs to mind!

One in 5 couples has difficulty conceiving. Having done pretty much as you described and spend our early 30's traveling, working and having fun, we expected to be able to switch on the baby-tap and get instant results. It didn't quite work out that way. We went through 5 years of infertility, being prodded, poked & scraped by a large number of medics. I remember being invited to the information meeting run by the HARI clinic, and I was expecting to find myself in a room with 10-15 people. There must have been about 500 people in the large function room in the Rotunda, and they run these meetings 3 times a year. We later ran into our next-door neighbours in the clinic and I spotted at least 3 work colleagues in the clinic during our treatment there.

The good news for us is that the IVF treatment worked and our little darling will be 4 at Christmas. I'll be 60 at her 21st birthday party.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I do want you to understand that infertility is quite common, so you may want to consider this risk in your planning.

Terry

RainyDay wrote:

The old line about 'Give God a laugh - tell him your plans' springs to mind!

One in 5 couples has difficulty conceiving. Having done pretty much as you described and spend our early 30's traveling, working and having fun, we expected to be able to switch on the baby-tap and get instant results. It didn't quite work out that way. We went through 5 years of infertility, being prodded, poked & scraped by a large number of medics. I remember being invited to the information meeting run by the HARI clinic, and I was expecting to find myself in a room with 10-15 people. There must have been about 500 people in the large function room in the Rotunda, and they run these meetings 3 times a year. We later ran into our next-door neighbours in the clinic and I spotted at least 3 work colleagues in the clinic during our treatment there.

The good news for us is that the IVF treatment worked and our little darling will be 4 at Christmas. I'll be 60 at her 21st birthday party.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I do want you to understand that infertility is quite common, so you may want to consider this risk in your planning.

The location of that meeting gave me a laugh.

Nothing like bringing a childless couple to a maternity hospital to cheer them up.

Sir Oxman

Childfree and happy with that and no intentions ever of having them.
I also get the 'you've no kids, at your age???' crapola and then that sometimes turns into 'must be gay' double-crapola. Eh no, I'm perfectly happy thank you very much.

Yes, unfortunately I work with and know some super-idiotic, neanderthal goons and goonesses.

Being a generally polite man, I resist the temptation to point out to some of the *goons their obvious distress at the hole they've dug for themselves and simply smile and nod benevolently when I'm hearing for the billionth time how hard it is, how difficult it is, how much they've missed out on and eventually how lucky they think I am...The OP is right, this bull is rampant out there.

*not all parents obviously, just the day-to-day arses I come across.

RainyDay

Terry wrote:

The location of that meeting gave me a laugh.

Nothing like bringing a childless couple to a maternity hospital to cheer them up.

HARI is based in the grounds of the Rotunda. They are pretty good at maintaining seperation between the two institutions. Indeed, they have a policy of 'no children on the premises' except in the late afternoon when all patients have gone home, and staff get the chance to see the end results of their work.

It was quite grating in the earlier days of our treatments to go to the gyne's office for consultations to be surrounded by mums with big bumps and lots of baby pariphenalia. Unless you've been through infertility, you don't quite understand how difficult this can be. I remember hiding in the loo in work when good friends were bringing in their new babies to show off, as I just couldn't quite face yet another reminder of our problems.

Terry

Listen, I just found the ironic location funny.

Siogfinsceal

Life is ironic like that. I would not be bothered if I was infertile. But lots of women who want kids cant have them

John Mason

i hate this thread, i cant believe someone bumped it again

i need a drink now

stcatherine

irishbird wrote:

i need a drink now

Me too ..... but maybe thats cos I've been busy being a mother all week and I need a break now !!! hee hee

SnkNinja

In Leixlip yesterday, bunch of kids (about 7/8 yrs old ) throwing stones at people walking down the street, people just ducked out of the way and carried on walking, they must be used to this sort of carry on. The kids had Dublin jersey's on, even though I thought it was Kildare. anyhoo there seems to be too many kids around, and they doesnt seem to be anyone around to tell them what is right or wrong, they seemed quite happy trying to hit people with stones (in the head i might add). It's like they have never been told off before.

Jesus Wept

SnkNinja wrote:

In Leixlip yesterday, bunch of kids (about 7/8 yrs old ) throwing stones at people walking down the street, people just ducked out of the way and carried on walking, they must be used to this sort of carry on. The kids had Dublin jersey's on, even though I thought it was Kildare. anyhoo there seems to be too many kids around, and they doesnt seem to be anyone around to tell them what is right or wrong, they seemed quite happy trying to hit people with stones (in the head i might add). It's like they have never been told off before.

I blame Dublin, only children born in Dublin are capable of such behavior. :rolleyes:

Nevyn

With each family only having 1/2 kids there are a lot less kids around,
then when the average family was 4/5 or go back another generation when 8 kids was the norm amd nearly everyone has them so really cop on.

A detailed breakdown of the 2006 census published yesterday shows that falling fertility is having a significant impact on family size, with the average number of children per family declining from 2.2 in 1986 to 1.4 last year.

stcatherine

The-Rigger wrote:

I blame Dublin, only children born in Dublin are capable of such behavior. :rolleyes:

Dagnammit, why didn't anyone tell me that ? Jaysus I have years worth of stone throwing to catch up on ...I'm off !

Jesus Wept

stcatherine wrote:

Dagnammit, why didn't anyone tell me that ? Jaysus I have years worth of stone throwing to catch up on ...I'm off !

fantastic, I'll join ya.

Andrewf20

Ive no kids either and have absolutely no desire to have any. They are like financial sponges, soaking up hoards of cash. Too many other things in this big world to enjoy besides.

Scoobydoobydoo

SnkNinja wrote:

In Leixlip yesterday, bunch of kids (about 7/8 yrs old ) throwing stones at people walking down the street, people just ducked out of the way and carried on walking, they must be used to this sort of carry on. The kids had Dublin jersey's on, even though I thought it was Kildare. anyhoo there seems to be too many kids around, and they doesnt seem to be anyone around to tell them what is right or wrong, they seemed quite happy trying to hit people with stones (in the head i might add). It's like they have never been told off before.

I am from Leixlip but wouldn't live there now. There have always been people moving out there from Dublin, but more and more the wrong kind. It's a far cry from the place I grew up in. It was great when we were growing up, but no way would I bring up my son there. It's sad what you say about the kids there but not a surprise to me.

Terry

Scoobydoobydoo wrote:

I am from Leixlip but wouldn't live there now. There have always been people moving out there from Dublin, but more and more the wrong kind. It's a far cry from the place I grew up in. It was great when we were growing up, but no way would I bring up my son there. It's sad what you say about the kids there but not a surprise to me.

Yeah.
We only want the right kind of people in Leixlip.

Heil.

mikeruurds

My wife and I are blissfully childfree. We're married almost 4 years and have no intention of starting a family.

I'm 30 and still feel too young to be a dad . My wife is 25 and doesn't have any motherly instinct.

Long may it continue. €900+ a month for childcare is crazy anyway.

professore

Dudess wrote:

Who knows? Your perfect woman might be someone who doesn't want to have kids, and you might find yourself compromising.

Firstly let me say I don't care one way or the other whether people have kids or not. I have 3 myself and love them but can see why someone might choose not to have kids and have no problem with that.

Having said that I think that if one partner in a relationship wants kids and the other does not it is a huge problem in a relationship and will ultimately end in the couple splitting up.

PauloMN

RainyDay wrote:

The old line about 'Give God a laugh - tell him your plans' springs to mind!

One in 5 couples has difficulty conceiving. Having done pretty much as you described and spend our early 30's traveling, working and having fun, we expected to be able to switch on the baby-tap and get instant results. It didn't quite work out that way. We went through 5 years of infertility, being prodded, poked & scraped by a large number of medics. I remember being invited to the information meeting run by the HARI clinic, and I was expecting to find myself in a room with 10-15 people. There must have been about 500 people in the large function room in the Rotunda, and they run these meetings 3 times a year. We later ran into our next-door neighbours in the clinic and I spotted at least 3 work colleagues in the clinic during our treatment there.

The good news for us is that the IVF treatment worked and our little darling will be 4 at Christmas. I'll be 60 at her 21st birthday party.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I do want you to understand that infertility is quite common, so you may want to consider this risk in your planning.

A most sensible post, well said. Never plan out having kids like that, it quite often won't work out the way you want it to. Being mid-thirties now, myself and my wife know a few people who went with the old "I'll start when I'm 35" bit and it's really stressing them out when year after year nothing is happening. Such a shame.

As regards people who don't want kids, what's the problem? I didn't read all the posts, but some of the earlier ones suggest a "where can I get help" feeling. Are people for real with that????

Dudess

Oh I'm under no illusions when it comes to the question of fertility - when I'm 35 I'll have 35-year-old eggs. I said this in my post to which RainyDay responded:

if I have my first child at 37 at the latest (and I know that's reducing my chances fertility-wise greatly, but in the event that things go according to plan)

Plans often DON'T work out - I had all sorts of career plans when I left college and none of them have worked out - but waiting til my mid-thirties to have children is a risk I'm prepared to take. I'm not even sure I want to have kids anyway, but maybe in a few years I will. Right now, at 29, I certainly don't feel ready. But then I suppose nobody ever feels completely ready. And while there is, rightly, a focus on the fertility crisis faced by so many couples who decide to leave it til later, it should be remembered that there are those of that age who DO manage to conceive.

embee

Lil Kitten wrote:

I don't hang out with my friends who have had kids. All they want to do is get really pissed cos they're depressed because they had accidental pregnancies in their late teens and they know they've ruined their life. Degrees thrown away, a chance at a future is gone, still living at home while the tax payer picks up the tab. Many of the babies have no contact with their fathers. It's something that i completely disagree with and to go along with them would be hypocritical.

God, I didn't realise giving birth was going to somehow exclude me from having a future....

You need to pull your head out of your ass. I love your first sentence there: "I don't hang out with my friends who have had kids." Why are they your friends then - you don't hang out with them, you've whined about them being depressive, they've "ruined their lives" somehow.... I actually don't understand why you're friends with them, if they're that bad.

Having children does not mean your life is over, far from it. I've gone back to college to do a degree in Midwifery. My daughter is left with a childminder during the day, but from reading other posts of yours, you seem to have some sort of problem with that - children being left with creches, nannys etc. Would it be better if I just stayed at home and didn't try and further my education, just so that I wouldn't be committing the cardinal sin of not being a stay at home parent? Parents can't win, it seems. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I respect anyones wish to not have children, or to have children, but I resent these sweeping generalisations that parents seem to be bitter, jealous, depressed for the life we once knew.

I hope you don't leave the "planning" of your pregnancy too long, mind.