Passat vs Mondeo

defenstration · 15-04-2007 12:52am #1

Have about 10,500 Euro to spend and after much deliberation, eventually decided on a Passat ahead of a Mazda 6 or BMW 3-series. Was gonna look for a TDi, Comfortline if possible. But today, a dealer was tellin me that a Mondeo would be a better option. Ok, I'm not thick enough to believe everything that comes out of a dealer's mouth but thought I might get some confirmation here anyway.

He was saying that Mondeos don't have the same problems with the timing belt as the Passats do, and that after about 170k miles, the Passat gets to be a bit high maintenance whereas the Mondeo lasts longer on less maintenance.

Haven't driven a Mondeo yet but really like the drive that a Passat TDi gives. Not too bothered about power, or speed or any o that boy racer stuff, driving comfort is all I'm after. So which would be the more comfortable of the two, and which would be the more reliable of the two? I realise the Mondeo is cheaper and was gonna look for one originally til I compared how it holds its value compared to the Passat - if I bought a '02 Passat, it would still hold it's value a lot better than a '03 Mondeo if I was to sell it after 3 or 4 years. That's the way it looked comparing prices on the different websites anyway.

Any ideas of which is the more comfortable/more reliable car, let me know. Cheers.

defenstration · 15-04-2007 12:56am

He also told me to steer clear of the TDCi engine on the mondeo - LX was the way to go because the other one gives a bitta trouble...

iMax · 15-04-2007 12:57am

I have a 98 Passat, 115k, great car, have driven fords for years (although not a mondeo), this VW feels altogether more solid a drive.

ninty9er · 15-04-2007 1:11am

The outgoing mondeo is much more solid than the previous one and probably more comfortable than a Passat (As a passenger anyway), the ride feels smoother an it's definitely planted on the road..

But go for at leaast a zetec spec...LX is the base and I personally have an aversion to base spec cars as they tend to be more difficult to get rid of

eamon234 · 15-04-2007 1:25am

was he a Ford dealer? I'd have to disagree there - I'm no huge fan of Passats but there's no comparison to a feckin' Mondeo - as you said depreciation being the main case in point. The comment about the tdi being high maintenance after 170k was a bit odd I've never heard that being the case and we have a fleet of over 30 of them in the company I work for and have had for a number of years (we'd certainly never even consider Mondeos - the reps would all leave!)
Have you considered a Skoda Octavia? Much more car for your money.

vengeance52 · 15-04-2007 1:59am

Mondeos dont have timing belts, they have timing chains so no probs there.

The LX is the base standard model. It goes LX, Zetec, Gia, ST and so forth. Ive a 2001 Mondeo 2.0 TDDi Zetec and ive no probs with it.

Actually im selling my car in the next couple of weeks for less than ur budget if your interested. Pm me so not to spoil the thread.

wingnut · 15-04-2007 11:08am

defenstration wrote:

He also told me to steer clear of the TDCi engine on the mondeo - LX was the way to go because the other one gives a bitta trouble...

Strange - as 99r mentioned LX is only the trim level and has no impact on the reliability of the car (unless by 'LX' he was referring to the 1.8 Petrol Engine). The TDCI are a great engine - best in the range, and much better thean the TDDI in some of the older modles. The TDDI was a 'stop gap' while they developed the TDCI.

I've had a Passat and a Mondeo (both petrol) in the past and would take the Ford in a second, especially in terms of comfort / interior.

BTW there is a new Mondeo due out the end of this year if you can wait it should drop the price of the old model a bit. The inital depreciation on Mondeos is big but thats why they are one of the best bargains second hand.

maidhc · 15-04-2007 11:12am

Id take a mondeo anyday over a Passat.

Definately better built, looks more or less the same (it was designed by engineers poached by Ford), Ford from my experience make very dependable stuff, and when something does go wrong parts are much cheaper than VW ones. The mondeo is a fantastic car to drive in comparison too, it took VW until 2005 to catch up with the 1992 Mondeo (and copied the suspension in the focus to do it!)

Seeing as you are spending 10,500, NONE of the cars will be worth a thruppence come trade in time. Ignore resale value.

As regards getting a TDDi over a TDCI, it is probably not the worst advice. The TDDi uses an old distributor type diesel pump, whereas the TDCI has high pressue injection. The old fashioned diesels, while slower and less economical will probably do far more driving without needing expensive fuel system repairs . By expensive I mean a set of injectors, and fuel pump is over €3k! The same goes for buying a non"PD" Passat over one of the later ones.

dil999 · 15-04-2007 12:35pm

I've driven 4 different Mondeos, Just bought my last one 2 months ago. Each time I looked at the Passat, and there was no comparison. The Modeo was a better drive, much better equipped and handled 100 times better. I actually didn't look at the new Passat the last time, as it is ridcuously priced.

I have driven the 100PS (LX) and 125PS Petrol (Zetec) the 125 is a better engine. and I have had 1 and the new on is also a TDCi 115PS which is super engine. I test drove the 90PS (TDi) and wouldn't recommend it

The thing with a Mondeo and depreciation is, you get huge discounts, up to 12.5% off the list so the depreciation is not as bad as its made out to be at all. But in the OPs case depreciation is not an issue, as maidch just mentioned.

Every car magazine / website has rated the modeo as best in its class, by a long shot. the Passat comes nowhere near.
www.parkers.co.uk
www.whatcar.co.uk

I never had a days troulbe with any of the cars. Granted the longest I kept one was 3 years. my sister 3 yo Passat just had the electrics go haywire costing her just under a grand and a load of hassle to repair.

Volkswagens are trading on a long time gone reliability reputation and there cars are ludicrously overpriced. If you want to pay extra money for something of use buy an Accord or nice BMW. Don't waste it on a VW badge.

Henry Ford III · 15-04-2007 12:36pm

A good used Mondeo is a fine motor. Good to drive and also to own.

TDCI is good. Zetec spec. or higher recommeded.

Passats are overpriced, and not as good as you'd expect. Reliabilty issues abound. Servicing is outrageously expensive too.

Octavia is good, as a taxi

defenstration · 15-04-2007 1:25pm

Cheers for the replies so far lads.

Yep, the fella does deal in mostly Fords, so that's why I was suspicious and thought I should get some advice here!

The reason he said to keep clear of the TDCI was cos a set of injectors for it would cost a grand, whereas you'd get the same done in an LX for half nothing. You guys are saying that I should go for at least a Zetec, but does that have a TDCI engine? What are my different engine options when going for a diesel Mondeo? I know you guys don't seem to have had any problems with the TDCI, but all the same, one bad story is all I need to put me off, and I got that from that dealer! I don't want anything over 1.9l either cos heard that there could be a new tax coming in on 2l engines and higher. As well, does the class of the car change when you move up to 2l, which would have imlications for my insurance and tax?

As regards depreciation, I realise that if I'm buying a '02 or a '03 and holding onto it for about 4 years, you'd think that the difference in resale value wouldn't even be worth considering, but when I compare the prices of a '99 Mondeo ('03 minus 4 years) to a '98 Passat ('02 minus 4 years) on the different websites, there's practically a grand in the difference, with the Passat coming out on top! Not exactly Euromillions stuff but a grand is still better in yer pocket than not in it!

defenstration · 15-04-2007 1:28pm

Few o yis mention the Octavia as well. Was kinda half considering it at the start but not too gone on how the front of it looks. Everyone keeps referring to it as "the poor man's Passat". To be honest, I couldn't give a damn if ppl thought I was poor or a millionaire, all I'm after is a good reliable comfortable drive, so would the Octavia come out better in that department than a Passat or a Mondeo?

defenstration · 15-04-2007 1:28pm

And another thing - with the Passat, ya have Comfortline, Trendline and Highline. Is there anything like that with the Mondeo? Any different levels of comfort interior that I should consider looking out for, or even steering clear of?

vengeance52 · 15-04-2007 2:06pm

defenstration wrote:

And another thing - with the Passat, ya have Comfortline, Trendline and Highline. Is there anything like that with the Mondeo? Any different levels of comfort interior that I should consider looking out for, or even steering clear of?

That would be the LX, Zetec, Gia, etc

The reason its been mentioned above to go for zetec is that you get more trim for your money. Ive a zetec, with alloys, all electric windows, electric heated mirrors, Air Con, CD player, front fog lights. so its a nice package.

gyppo · 15-04-2007 2:28pm

defenstration wrote:

I don't want anything over 1.9l either cos heard that there could be a new tax coming in on 2l engines and higher. As well, does the class of the car change when you move up to 2l, which would have imlications for my insurance and tax?

Well, if you don't/can't want an engine over 1.9l, then the mondeo is out.

Minimum engine capacity in a diesel mondeo from '01 onwards is 2.0l. Annual tax on a 2l is 539Euro, I think a 1.9l is around 20 or 30E less, as far as I can remember.

The difference in the tddi and tdci engines from a driving viewpoint is enormous. Try driving both before you decide.

Henry Ford III · 15-04-2007 5:12pm

gyppo wrote:

Well, if you don't/can't want an engine over 1.9l, then the mondeo is out.

Minimum engine capacity in a diesel mondeo from '01 onwards is 2.0l. Annual tax on a 2l is 539Euro, I think a 1.9l is around 20 or 30E less, as far as I can remember.

The difference in the tddi and tdci engines from a driving viewpoint is enormous. Try driving both before you decide.

Yep. All the diesels are 2.0 litre. 1.8 petrol are avaialble in 2 states of tune. 110bhp in an LX and 125bhp in a Zetec.

Have a look at www.parkers.co.uk and www.honestjohn.co.uk for informed reviews.

Tddi is stone age technology. Best avoided. TDCI is the one to go for.

maidhc · 15-04-2007 5:34pm

Henry Ford III wrote:

Tddi is stone age technology. Best avoided. TDCI is the one to go for.

It is older technology, but better proven technology too. Any one who refers to diesels doing 300k without needing more than regular oil changes normally is referring to one of these engines.

wingnut · 15-04-2007 5:49pm

There is still the issue of the new model coming out which will drop the prices. The base spec (edge) is going to be £300 pounds cheaper than the old LX model. It will be a 1.6 Petrol engine so you may be tempted to buy a banger for a year and pick up one a year old! Running costs, tax insurance won't be a problem.

Bearing in mind the new model is cheaper they will be hard pressed to shift the old one. The new model looks 100 times better than the outgoing one!
ESP and driver's knee airbag?? are going to be standard on the new model.

maidhc · 15-04-2007 5:51pm

wingnut wrote:

There is still the issue of the new model coming out which will drop the prices.

It will hit the value of the newish ones, but it won't make a massive difference to the ones that have lost 2/3rds of their value already. Different buyers and a different market.

vengeance52 · 15-04-2007 5:54pm

wingnut wrote:

There is still the issue of the new model coming out which will drop the prices. The base spec (edge) is going to be £300 pounds cheaper than the old LX model. It will be a 1.6 Petrol engine so you may be tempted to buy a banger for a year and pick up one a year old! Running costs, tax insurance won't be a problem.

Bearing in mind the new model is cheaper they will be hard pressed to shift the old one. The new model looks 100 times better than the outgoing one!

With regards a second hand buyers view point this is a good thing, as the prices on older cars will drop so ya can pick up a great car for a good price.

wingnut wrote:

driver's knee airbag??

Say WHAAAAA?

maidhc · 15-04-2007 5:57pm

vengeance52 wrote:

Say WHAAAAA?

Avensis has had this as standard since 2003...

dil999 · 15-04-2007 7:10pm

wingnut wrote:

There is still the issue of the new model coming out which will drop the prices. The base spec (edge) is going to be £300 pounds cheaper than the old LX model. It will be a 1.6 Petrol engine so you may be tempted to buy a banger for a year and pick up one a year old! Running costs, tax insurance won't be a problem.

Bearing in mind the new model is cheaper they will be hard pressed to shift the old one. The new model looks 100 times better than the outgoing one!
ESP and driver's knee airbag?? are going to be standard on the new model.

New model will have minimal effect on the price of 4 and 5 year old cars. Dont forget the new Passat came out last year

Edit: I wonder will the discounts be as good on the new Mondeo as they were on this one.

Henry Ford III · 15-04-2007 7:54pm

dil999 wrote:

New model will have minimal effect on the price of 4 and 5 year old cars. Dont forget the new Passat came out last year

Edit: I wonder will the discounts be as good on the new Mondeo as they were on this one.

No. The outgoing one has €1500 off to move the stock.

bazz26 · 15-04-2007 8:06pm

defenstration wrote:

He also told me to steer clear of the TDCi engine on the mondeo - LX was the way to go because the other one gives a bitta trouble...

He didn't happen to have a Mondeo LX for sale by any chance did he?

Whoever told you that is talking crap!

The Ford TDCi diesel engine is one of the best in the business. In the Mondeo there were two diesel engines available - the 2.0 TDDi and the 2.0 TDCi. The TDDi engine is old, slow and noisy, it was only available in the LX model. The TDCi was available in the Zetec,Ghia and ST220 models. The TDCi is a common rail diesel engine and is very refined, lively and economical, it is light years ahead of the TDDi.

The Mondeo Zetec TDCi is the model to go for. The Mondeo LX TDDi are worth less and are less desirable.

Generally the Mondeo TDCi is give you less trouble than the Passat TDi. The TDCi has a timing chain rather than a timing belt which will last the lifetime of the engine afaik.

Yes the Mondeo will depreciate more than a Passat but look at this way, your buying a 4 or 5 year old car, keep it for another 2 or 3 years and no matter which one you buy will not be worth a whole lot. If you buy the Mondeo cheap then expect to sell it on cheap. The Mondeo is also a newer fresher design, the Mondeo was launched in 2000 whereas the Passat has been around since 1997.

My money would be on the Mondeo Zetec TDCi like this:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=650705

ninty9er · 15-04-2007 8:22pm

defenstration wrote:

I don't want anything over 1.9l either cos heard that there could be a new tax coming in on 2l engines and higher. As well, does the class of the car change when you move up to 2l, which would have imlications for my insurance and tax?

New environmental taxes asre unlikely to be aimed this low in the engine spectrum. Also; these taxes are unlikey to be retrospective and will generally not apply to cars already on the road, as is the case in the UK

ninty9er · 15-04-2007 8:24pm

also, what part of the country are you in and how far will you travel to get the right car??

maidhc · 15-04-2007 8:26pm

bazz26 wrote:

it was only available in the LX model. The TDCi was available in the Zetec,Ghia and ST220 models

The TDDI was available in all trims (except the ST) until 2002 or so, in both 90bhp (LX) and 115bhp (Zetec) It soldiered on in the LX until 2005 I think, but was then replaced by a severely detuned TDCi.

I think people are being too harsh on the TDDI, although its time is probably gone, it is just as good as VW TDI of equivalent power.

dil999 · 15-04-2007 8:43pm

Henry Ford III wrote:

No. The outgoing one has €1500 off to move the stock.

I got mine nearly 4K below list

bazz26 · 15-04-2007 8:47pm

maidhc wrote:

The TDDI was available in all trims (except the ST) until 2002 or so, in both 90bhp (LX) and 115bhp (Zetec) It soldiered on in the LX until 2005 I think, but was then replaced by a severely detuned TDCi.

I think people are being too harsh on the TDDI, although its time is probably gone, it is just as good as VW TDI of equivalent power.

I always thought the 115bhp version was the newer common rail unit. Didn't know they had two versions of the old unit.

gyppo · 15-04-2007 9:15pm

bazz26 wrote:

I always thought the 115bhp version was the newer common rail unit. Didn't know they had two versions of the old unit.

Afaik, the tddi in LX guise was available in the uk with 115bhp, whilst here had to do with a 90bhp unit. So maybe the earlier zetecs here did have a tddi 115bhp engine.

I test-drove a tddi unit, and found it a very agricultural affair, compared to the tdci version.

defenstration · 15-04-2007 11:30pm

ninty9er wrote:

also, what part of the country are you in and how far will you travel to get the right car??

Kinda moving between Dublin and Kilkenny these days so anywhere around that general area.

As it stands, I don't really see myself doing more than 15k per year over the next 2 or 3 years, so I might be better off going for the petrol then I suppose rather than going for a 2l diesel? Would a 1.8l be big enough to carry a Mondeo proper? Was told when looking at the Passats to stay away fromthe 1.6l - not big enough for the size of the Passat.

Passat vs Mondeo

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