Passat vs Mondeo

bazz26

defenstration wrote:

Kinda moving between Dublin and Kilkenny these days so anywhere around that general area.

As it stands, I don't really see myself doing more than 15k per year over the next 2 or 3 years, so I might be better off going for the petrol then I suppose rather than going for a 2l diesel? Would a 1.8l be big enough to carry a Mondeo proper? Was told when looking at the Passats to stay away fromthe 1.6l - not big enough for the size of the Passat.

Mondeo has two 1.8 litre petrol engines available, the 1.8 LX which has 110bhp and the 1.8 Zetec which has 125bhp. The 1.8 Zetec is nippier than the 1.8 LX and has more toys. Go with that one.

defenstration

At the end of the day lads, when I compare the resale prices of a '99 Mondeo to a '98 Passat, it looks like I'd be making in the region of anything between 1000 and 1500 euro more on the Passat when I'd go to sell it 4 years from now. Dunno bout you guys, but that's a decent bitta money to me! You say that I can buy the Mondeo cheap so be prepared to sell it cheap. But the case is that I'd buy a '03 Mondeo for the same price as a '02 Passat, but even still, after 4 years, it looks like I'd make over a grand more when reselling the Passat than selling a Mondeo.

So there'd wanna be something pretty amazing about the Mondeo over the Passat to make me throw away up to 1500 Euro on it! Will try and get a test drive in one soon and if it is a more comfortable ride than the Passat, I'd consider it, but if not, then I think I'll stay with the Passat, unless there is any other reasons you guys can tell me that might change my mind? So far, the only real argument I've seen is that the Mondeo doesn't have a timing belt. You compare the TDDI engine to the TDCI engine - am I correct in thinking that a '02 Passat uses a TDDI, or and that is why a TDCI Mondeo would be a better buy? Or am I completely misunderstanding you?! Sorry but I know nothin bout cars!

ninty9er

the 99 mondeo wasn't in the same league as the outgoing model...much better than the Passat, the diesel especially should re-sell well. It'll probably be a grand less that you get for it, but the ownership experience will probably justify that.

ZiabR

bazz26 wrote:

He didn't happen to have a Mondeo LX for sale by any chance did he?

Whoever told you that is talking crap!

The Ford TDCi diesel engine is one of the best in the business. In the Mondeo there were two diesel engines available - the 2.0 TDDi and the 2.0 TDCi. The TDDi engine is old, slow and noisy, it was only available in the LX model. The TDCi was available in the Zetec,Ghia and ST220 models. The TDCi is a common rail diesel engine and is very refined, lively and economical, it is light years ahead of the TDDi.

The Mondeo Zetec TDCi is the model to go for. The Mondeo LX TDDi are worth less and are less desirable.

Generally the Mondeo TDCi is give you less trouble than the Passat TDi. The TDCi has a timing chain rather than a timing belt which will last the lifetime of the engine afaik.

Yes the Mondeo will depreciate more than a Passat but look at this way, your buying a 4 or 5 year old car, keep it for another 2 or 3 years and no matter which one you buy will not be worth a whole lot. If you buy the Mondeo cheap then expect to sell it on cheap. The Mondeo is also a newer fresher design, the Mondeo was launched in 2000 whereas the Passat has been around since 1997.

My money would be on the Mondeo Zetec TDCi like this:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=650705

The Mondeo has been around alot longer than 2000. There are 97 models of the Mondeo still on the road today. I myself drive a 99 TD Mondeo.

bazz26

defenstration wrote:

At the end of the day lads, when I compare the resale prices of a '99 Mondeo to a '98 Passat, it looks like I'd be making in the region of anything between 1000 and 1500 euro more on the Passat when I'd go to sell it 4 years from now. Dunno bout you guys, but that's a decent bitta money to me! You say that I can buy the Mondeo cheap so be prepared to sell it cheap. But the case is that I'd buy a '03 Mondeo for the same price as a '02 Passat, but even still, after 4 years, it looks like I'd make over a grand more when reselling the Passat than selling a Mondeo.

So there'd wanna be something pretty amazing about the Mondeo over the Passat to make me throw away up to 1500 Euro on it! Will try and get a test drive in one soon and if it is a more comfortable ride than the Passat, I'd consider it, but if not, then I think I'll stay with the Passat, unless there is any other reasons you guys can tell me that might change my mind? So far, the only real argument I've seen is that the Mondeo doesn't have a timing belt. You compare the TDDI engine to the TDCI engine - am I correct in thinking that a '02 Passat uses a TDDI, or and that is why a TDCI Mondeo would be a better buy? Or am I completely misunderstanding you?! Sorry but I know nothin bout cars!

For argument sake if you have a 03 Passat TDi for €15k and a 03 Mondeo TDCi for €14k. Four years down the road the Passat is worth €5k and the Mondeo is worth €4k. You only make back the €1k that you originally paid out extra for the Passat. Where is this making you money come resale time?

A timing belt change alone on the Passat can cost up to €1k at a VW dealer, an independant mechanic will charge you half that amount. VW servicing costs and parts (excluding timing belt) tend to be more expensive than Ford.

bazz26

logik wrote:

The Mondeo has been around alot longer than 2000. There are 97 models of the Mondeo still on the road today. I myself drive a 99 TD Mondeo.

Yes but the current Mondeo that the OP is comparing to a Passat was launched in September 2000.

ZiabR

bazz26 wrote:

Yes but the current Mondeo that the OP is comparing to a Passat was launched in September 2000.

Yes true, apologies, i was under the impression you meant Mondeo as a whole.

bazz26

defenstration wrote:

But the case is that I'd buy a '03 Mondeo for the same price as a '02 Passat, but even still, after 4 years, it looks like I'd make over a grand more when reselling the Passat than selling a Mondeo.

Why would you pay the same money for a 02 Passat as a 03 Mondeo? The Mondeo is a year younger!

defenstration wrote:

So there'd wanna be something pretty amazing about the Mondeo over the Passat to make me throw away up to 1500 Euro on it! Will try and get a test drive in one soon and if it is a more comfortable ride than the Passat, I'd consider it, but if not, then I think I'll stay with the Passat, unless there is any other reasons you guys can tell me that might change my mind? So far, the only real argument I've seen is that the Mondeo doesn't have a timing belt.

Lets turn this point the other way round.

What do you find pretty amazing about the Passat to justify paying extra for it over a Mondeo of the same age?

defenstration

bazz26 wrote:

For argument sake if you have a 03 Passat TDi for €15k and a 03 Mondeo TDCi for €14k. Four years down the road the Passat is worth €5k and the Mondeo is worth €4k. You only make back the €1k that you originally paid out extra for the Passat. Where is this making you money come resale time?

A timing belt change alone on the Passat can cost up to €1k at a VW dealer, an independant mechanic will charge you half that amount. VW servicing costs and parts (excluding timing belt) tend to be more expensive than Ford.

Right, I am looking to spend somewhere in the region of 10k and 11k. For that I would get a '01 Passat or a '02 Mondeo. Say then I hang onto that for 4 years, so to get some sorta idea as to what sorta price they would be in 4 years time, I go to Carzone.ie and I check up the price of a '97 Passat ('01 - 4 years) and compare that with the price of a '98 Mondeo ('02 - 4 years), and the average price of the '97 Passat would be around 4500 whereas the average price of the '98 Mondeo is around 2700. Hope that clears up where I'm coming from.

defenstration

bazz26 wrote:

Why would you pay the same money for a 02 Passat as a 03 Mondeo? The Mondeo is a year younger!



Lets turn this point the other way round.

What do you find pretty amazing about the Passat to justify paying extra for it over a Mondeo of the same age?

Right, drove a Mondeo this evening, twas just an LX petrol, but still was impressed with it. Would think there is very little between a Passat and a Mondeo to drive. As far as what it is about the two that I like so much - pretty much just the smoothness on the road.
So I'll consider both a Passat and a Mondeo and will take whichever I get the better deal on I suppose...

defenstration

If I was buying a Passat, I'd want a Comfortline or even better still a Highline if I could get my hands on one. The chrome around the windows etc. adds a lot to the look of the car I think. So just wondering is there anything similar in the Mondeo range. Any upgrades like the Passat Comfortline that I should consider keeping an eye out for when looking for Mondeos?

defenstration

defenstration wrote:

If I was buying a Passat, I'd want a Comfortline or even better still a Highline if I could get my hands on one. The chrome around the windows etc. adds a lot to the look of the car I think. So just wondering is there anything similar in the Mondeo range. Any upgrades like the Passat Comfortline that I should consider keeping an eye out for when looking for Mondeos?

Actually about that, I realise that it goes something like LX, then Zetec, the Ghia, then ST, but can anyone explain what the difference is between all those different models - what do you get with them?
And I also saw a "Mondeo Executive" advertised on Carzone today - does that come after ST in the list or what exactly is it, and what do you get with it?

bazz26

defenstration wrote:

Actually about that, I realise that it goes something like LX, then Zetec, the Ghia, then ST, but can anyone explain what the difference is between all those different models - what do you get with them?
And I also saw a "Mondeo Executive" advertised on Carzone today - does that come after ST in the list or what exactly is it, and what do you get with it?

The Mondeo trim is as follows:

LX - similar to Passat Baseline - 1.8 petrol or 2.0 diesel - electric front windows, air conditioning, remote central locking and cd player.

Zetec - similar to Passat Comfortline - 1.8/2.0 petrol or 2.0 diesel - similar to LX plus electric front & rear windows, electric mirrors, remote central locking, front fog lights, air conditioning and alloy wheels.

Ghia/Executive - similar to Passat Highline - 2.0/2.5 petrol or 2.0 diesel - same as Zetec plus, leather seats, climate control, electric sunroof, cd changer and traction control.

ST220 - 3.0 petrol or 2.2 diesel - leather sports seats, ST body kit, 18" alloy wheels, rear boot spoiler.

defenstration

And also, getting back to the whole TDDI vs TDCI argument, just need a few things clarified:

1) Does anyone know when the Passat started using a TDCI instead of the TDDI?

2) Someone was saying there that the Mondeo Zetec was still using the TDDI up as far as the '02 model. So if I want to go for a TDCI, will I have to buy a '03 Zetec, or is the TDCI available in the '02 Zetec also?

3) Has anyone ever had a problem with the injectors in the Zetec? How likely is this to happen to a Mondeo of the age that I'll be buying, and if so, how expensive is it? At the end of the day though, I suppose it will cancel out the fact that the timing belt will need to be done on a Passat and also that the services and parts are more expensive on the Passat?

Cheers again for all the help lads.

bazz26

defenstration wrote:

And also, getting back to the whole TDDI vs TDCI argument, just need a few things clarified:

1) Does anyone know when the Passat started using a TDCI instead of the TDDI?

2) Someone was saying there that the Mondeo Zetec was still using the TDDI up as far as the '02 model. So if I want to go for a TDCI, will I have to buy a '03 Zetec, or is the TDCI available in the '02 Zetec also?

3) Has anyone ever had a problem with the injectors in the Zetec? How likely is this to happen to a Mondeo of the age that I'll be buying, and if so, how expensive is it? At the end of the day though, I suppose it will cancel out the fact that the timing belt will need to be done on a Passat and also that the services and parts are more expensive on the Passat?

Cheers again for all the help lads.

Passat doesn't use the TDDi or TDCi engine. These are the names given by Ford to their diesel engines. VW call their diesel engines the TDi.

Apparently Ford had two versions of their TDDi engine in the Mondeo from 2001 to 2003. My understanding is that the LX had the 100bhp version and the Zetec had the 115bhp version which confusingly was called the TDCi. Maybe someone else here can verify all this.

junkyard

Buy the Mondeo, the Passat is an overrated pile of junk just like the rest of the VW family.

maidhc

defenstration wrote:

And also, getting back to the whole TDDI vs TDCI argument, just need a few things clarified:

1) Does anyone know when the Passat started using a TDCI instead of the TDDI?

The Passat's equivalent of the TDCI is the TDI "pumpe deuse". Its the same sort of idea, although instead of having a diesel pump it uses detroit diesel style injectors which have an integrated pump. This was fitted from about 2001. Repairs are also hideously expensive.

defenstration wrote:

2) Someone was saying there that the Mondeo Zetec was still using the TDDI up as far as the '02 model. So if I want to go for a TDCI, will I have to buy a '03 Zetec, or is the TDCI available in the '02 Zetec also?

You will have to see. The type of engine and kw output is normally printed under the bonnet. Some mondeos have TDCi badges, but not all.

defenstration wrote:

3) Has anyone ever had a problem with the injectors in the Zetec? How likely is this to happen to a Mondeo of the age that I'll be buying, and if so, how expensive is it? At the end of the day though, I suppose it will cancel out the fact that the timing belt will need to be done on a Passat and also that the services and parts are more expensive on the Passat?

Cheers again for all the help lads.

Pot luck... they have a service life of 200k, and so long as no one has ever fitted tuning boxes or the likes, or used dirty or contaminated diesel, they should last that long. My focus TDCi has done almost 80k, and no issues yet.

The injectors are made by delphi, who make the same thing for Toyota. No idea on the exact price (ring Auto distribution, they are delphi agents, and much cheaper than ford). They can however be got reconditioned now, and garages are starting to understand how to fix common rail diesels too. The Passat injectors are substantially more expensive, as they incorporate a fuel pump.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote:

Apparently Ford had two versions of their TDDi engine in the Mondeo from 2001 to 2003. My understanding is that the LX had the 100bhp version and the Zetec had the 115bhp version which confusingly was called the TDCi. Maybe someone else here can verify all this.

Tddi was 90bhp starting off. Not sure about the eveloution after that, but I doubt it ever made 115bhp.

TDCI was 115bhp and up to 130bhp in 2.0 litre guise. 130bhp was only available in Ghia and Executive models afaik. Irish Zetecs only had 115bhp, so any 130bhp Zetec is an import.

gyppo

Henry Ford III wrote:

Tddi was 90bhp starting off. Not sure about the eveloution after that, but I doubt it ever made 115bhp.

TDCI was 115bhp and up to 130bhp in 2.0 litre guise. 130bhp was only available in Ghia and Executive models afaik. Irish Zetecs only had 115bhp, so any 130bhp Zetec is an import.

Yep, the tddi was 90bhp over here. There was a 115 tddi version available in the UK, it was never sold here.

Regarding the Zetecs, there was a Zetec "Ebony" (info from Colm-mcm) that had 130bhp, but I think it was a limited edition, and fairly rare.
All 'standard' irish zetecs are 115bhp, but many import zetecs (like mine) are 130bhp.

maidhc

gyppo wrote:

Yep, the tddi was 90bhp over here. There was a 115 tddi version available in the UK, it was never sold here.

Are you sure the TDDI 115 wasn't sold here? I distinctly remember my parents mulling over a 115 bhp mondeo or avensis in late 2001

...it may have been a TDCi. It was working out far too expensive in comparison to an avensis at the time, so we didn't pay much attention to it.

defenstration

bazz26 wrote:

The Mondeo trim is as follows:

LX - similar to Passat Baseline - 1.8 petrol or 2.0 diesel - electric front windows, air conditioning, remote central locking and cd player.

Zetec - similar to Passat Comfortline - 1.8/2.0 petrol or 2.0 diesel - similar to LX plus electric front & rear windows, electric mirrors, remote central locking, front fog lights, air conditioning and alloy wheels.

Ghia/Executive - similar to Passat Highline - 2.0/2.5 petrol or 2.0 diesel - same as Zetec plus, leather seats, climate control, electric sunroof, cd changer and traction control.

ST220 - 3.0 petrol or 2.2 diesel - leather sports seats, ST body kit, 18" alloy wheels, rear boot spoiler.

I see a Zetec up on Carzone, but without alloys. The fella tryin to pull a fast one?!
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=605889

ninty9er

Thats an LX...all models above LX also had body coloured door handles

anthony4335

I have an 01 Zetec 2.0L TDDI (115BHP) . Have owned it for the last 2 and a half years without incident until 2 weeks ago, when the fuel lift pump went. Cost 900 euro in repair. Like the car a lot , with the only issues I find , it pulls to the left slightly ,no matter how may time I get it tracked. And I find the seat a little uncomfortable after about 30 mins driving. Would seriously consider another one, all the same. Had an Octavia petrol before that , and loved it.

bazz26

defenstration wrote:

I see a Zetec up on Carzone, but without alloys. The fella tryin to pull a fast one?!
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=605889

That isn't a Zetec, it's an LX.

This one is the Zetec model:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=268478