CWC Day 36 thread - England V South Africa

DMC

mikeruurds wrote:

Yep... for you too Damo

Edit: Actually Damo, Pietersen OUT c & b Smith would be the worst for you

I'm no fan of Pietersen, no more than the other two, tbh!

I just love it when the English press believe their own hype and it blows up in their face. Build them up, knock 'em down.

mikeruurds

DMC wrote:

I'm no fan of Pietersen, no more than the other two, tbh!

I just love it when the English press believe their own hype and it blows up in their face. Build them up, knock 'em down.

Yeah, but you hate Smithy

DMC

Congrats to SA.. what a emphatic win.

Enjoy the win, but not for too long. Forget it, in fact.
Focus on the Aussies. Don't expect to play like today against the Aussies. England were ripe for a hammering, thats what they got.

DMC

mikeruurds wrote:

Yeah, but you hate Smithy

I will put my fist through a TV if he lifts a World Cup alright

Zeuz

The English team are in a bit of Losing battle at the moment with the press and the fans..

but why are the english fans so discusting, 'BOOing' there own team..

alright fair enough they lost, they played absoloutly terriable.. but I think for a team thats needs the suport of the public to help boost morality.. its certianly not helping one bit..

English fans dont deserve to call them selfs cricket admirers.

DMC

Every sympathy for the English supporter in Barbados. They paid huge money to watch rubbish. Yes, they probably knew it might happen, but Vaughan was rightly booed.

There is one thing hearing it in the press, but when the crowd boos them, thats a huge huge message.

KevIRL

Englands World Cup begins here?

mikeruurds

English fans in all sports overhype their team's prospects.

If it's not the footie/rugby it's the cricket. Let's face facts... they might win the odd game against one of the top sides, but they're far from being world champs in any of the three games.

If they weren't so damn arrogant I might feel some sympathy for them. Especially with KP as their poster-boy.

Frankly I take pleasure in watching England lose. I'd rather lose to Aussie or NZ than to England. If you lose to England you never hear the end of it. Their rugby fans will talk about them being WC champs even though they've only managed to win a handful of matches since.

It's pretty sad really.

The SA fans can be pretty fickle sometimes, but at least we have realistic expectations. Even though we were ranked no. 1 for a nanosecond and have beaten Aussie a few times recently, I will still be surprised if we beat them in the semis. I'd love it if we won, but I won't be jeering the team if they lose.

Mike

DMC

KevIRL wrote:

Englands World Cup begins here?

Which World Cup?

KevIRL

DMC wrote:

Which World Cup?

hehe. my point exactly!

mikeruurds

KevIRL wrote:

Englands World Cup begins here?

Yes... some good spectating to come.

JacksonHeightsOwn

im usually a supporter of england when it coes to cricket, of course, my favourite to watch are the proteas, but seeing england lose, in such ambarrasing fashion today has really cheered me up!!

why you may ask??

well, im not sadistic, or some narrow minded Celtic fan(hate all that garbage) but simply because of the 5 minute tirade from some plonker on sky after the aussies bashed us, he went on about home we shouldnt be there, how we embarrased the game of cricket, how we didnt deserve to be even in the group stages, never mind the super 8`s, and for this wanker, i am chuffed to bits that the super england cricket nation got just 3 runs more than the minnows(US) did against South africa, humble pie

btw, who was that twat?

DMC

mikeruurds wrote:

I'd love it if we won, but I won't be jeering the team if they lose.

There is the big difference. England were rubbish all winter (bar 3 games where they fluked the CB Series) They have been on a downward spiral they won The Ashes.

Their supporters have had enough of Duncan Fletcher, enough of Michael Vaughan's batting, enough of the one-day set-up and enough of the Alistair Campbell Book of Spin.

On this occasion, its fair comment to boo, I feel.

DMC

chrisbonnie wrote:

btw, who was that twat?

Sounds suspiciously like Paul Allott.

mikeruurds

I just think that the English fans expect too much from their team.

Booing England would be comparable to booing Jade Goody for not winning the London marafen*.




*intentional spelling error

DMC

Oh I agree that they expect too much, but it's not much to ask for a bit better than the fayre they served up in one-day cricket over the last few years.

They want their team to compete. England simply cannot compete at ODI level. Their supporters want better.

Sky just had a brilliant slide up, with the names of the teams England beat in the last 4 World Cups. Only Pakistan, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh as Test sides were beaten no more than once.

Rjd2

How the hell did England beat Ireland?:D

mikeruurds

DMC wrote:

Oh I agree that they expect too much, but it's not much to ask for a bit better than the fayre they served up in one-day cricket over the last few years.

They want their team to compete. England simply cannot compete at ODI level. Their supporters want better.

Sky just had a brilliant slide up, with the names of the teams England beat in the last 4 World Cups. Only Pakistan, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh as Test sides were beaten no more than once.

That's pretty pathetic tbh. England have a decent Test side, but they don't have the mix right for ODI's.

Bob Woolmer would have worked wonders for England given the opportunity (God rest his soul).

They need a decent ODI coach to direct their talent.

Mike

Royale with Cheese

Vaughan should have played his last game for England. If he's not scoring runs than he has to go. Strauss for captain if he can keep his place. If not, KP.

mikeruurds

As much as I loathe KP's arrogance, he might just be what England need as far as the ODI captaincy is concerned.

If he can transfer his training ethic and flamboyancy to the rest of the team then they may be onto a winner.

Royale with Cheese

Well I don't really think England need a change in captaincy. Vaughan's captaincy is quite good, it must be because it's not his batting that's keeping him in the side. But his batting form really is just taking the piss. It's time to move on.

Right after the Ashes defeat KP gave an interview on Sky, on the pitch. He made alot of sense and sounded like a motivator, and a leader. I was pretty much convinced at that moment he'd be England captain one day. Just a question of when.

mikeruurds

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Right after the Ashes defeat KP gave an interview on Sky, on the pitch. He made alot of sense and sounded like a motivator, and a leader. I was pretty much convinced at that moment he'd be England captain one day. Just a question of when.

He needs to work a little on his accent though... still sounds too much like a South African

DMC

Royale with Cheese wrote:

Well I don't really think England need a change in captaincy. Vaughan's captaincy is quite good, it must be because it's not his batting that's keeping him in the side. But his batting form really is just taking the piss. It's time to move on.

Well then there has to be a prospect of getting two captains for Tests and ODI's. It worked fine when Mike Atherton couldn't play ODI's, Adam Hollioake took the captaincy.

If I were Vaughan, I'd opt out, (or if I was a selecter, I'd leave him out) of the West Indies test series. Go back and relearn the game and get his form back with Yorkshire.

Marshy

DMC wrote:

Sounds suspiciously like Paul Allott.

Yeah it was Paul Allott. I'd have to agree with some of what he said though. I mean without belittling the amazing achievement, all it takes for us to make the next round is 1 win against a top nation (superb as the pakistan victory was). He said that the aussie game devalued the super 8s which one cant really disagree with. We're not at the level where we can compete at that level yet. Yes we made the super 8s, playing better cricket than pakistan or zimbabwe but should that 1 win be sufficient to qualify?

Anyway the bangladesh proved we're able to beat teams from the next level down ie. Zim, Ban, Kenya.

England today though made the ireland australia game look competitive.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Marshy wrote:

Yeah it was Paul Allott. I'd have to agree with some of what he said though. I mean without belittling the amazing achievement, all it takes for us to make the next round is 1 win against a top nation (superb as the pakistan victory was). He said that the aussie game devalued the super 8s which one cant really disagree with. We're not at the level where we can compete at that level yet. Yes we made the super 8s, playing better cricket than pakistan or zimbabwe but should that 1 win be sufficient to qualify?

Anyway the bangladesh proved we're able to beat teams from the next level down ie. Zim, Ban, Kenya.

England today though made the ireland australia game look competitive.

Marshy, yeah, we did deserve to go through because we won 1 game, and drew another, the groups are designed that way for relative warm ups for the top 8 sides, just because their a top 8 side, doesnt mean they shouldnt have to qualify

ive never seen Brazil go to a world cup in football and get a by all the way to the quarter finals, so why should they in cricket

that allott was an utter cock, and his views have been mightly humbled now seeing as england faired no better than us, a bunch of amateurs!!! at least we beat a top ranked team ,thats more than england can say

as for England, changes need to be made, coaching, a few players, they need a fresh start, someone with imputious

you just look at the stats after 10 over, england only had 9 runs at that stage, granted, it was great bowling, but still ,9 runs is pathetic, and what did South africa have, 68, thats astonishing, and thats why souith africa are where they are, they have quile, and a forward thinking captain that can adapt to one day cricket

drop Vaughan and a few other stragllers, Mahmood, anderson etc.... and get some young talent in, and give them a chance

mikeruurds

I'm just glad that Graeme and the boys finally showed that they can pull together a disciplined professional effort in this tournament.

Now it's time to do the same against Aussie.

JacksonHeightsOwn

mikeruurds wrote:

I'm just glad that Graeme and the boys finally showed that they can pull together a disciplined professional effort in this tournament.

Now it's time to do the same against Aussie.

how sweet would it be to see that button nosed monkey(ponting) lose against south Africa, id bloody love it!!!!!

mikeruurds

chrisbonnie wrote:

how sweet would it be to see that button nosed monkey(ponting) lose against south Africa, id bloody love it!!!!!

Aye. It would be so good.

Marshy

chrisbonnie wrote:

Marshy, yeah, we did deserve to go through because we won 1 game, and drew another, the groups are designed that way for relative warm ups for the top 8 sides, just because their a top 8 side, doesnt mean they shouldnt have to qualify

ive never seen Brazil go to a world cup in football and get a by all the way to the quarter finals, so why should they in cricket

Yeah I accept that we fully deserved to qualify. But what PA was questioning was the format of the tournament itself. The following may upset some people:
We just won the one game plus a draw against the other 'weak' side in our group. All it takes is one fluke result to get through. Thats not to take anything from the victory v Pak. Nobody is saying the top teams should get byes but the ideal situation would be where there'd be less riding on a one off game and more on consistency.

Royale with Cheese

Allot made some sense in what he was saying. He specifically said he wasn't belittling Ireland's achievment, just the format of the competition.

Although he started talking ****e when he said it was inevitable that with the first round/super 8 structure that a small team would beat a big team and then one of the big teams would go out having played only 3 games. The system in place assumes that none of the small teams will qualify and that the super 8's will be contested by the world's top 8 sides. It didn't happen and the structure of the competition backfired badly.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Marshy wrote:

Yeah I accept that we fully deserved to qualify. But what PA was questioning was the format of the tournament itself. The following may upset some people:
We just won the one game plus a draw against the other 'weak' side in our group. All it takes is one fluke result to get through. Thats not to take anything from the victory v Pak. Nobody is saying the top teams should get byes but the ideal situation would be where there'd be less riding on a one off game and more on consistency.

i know what you mean Marshy, but in my eyes, thats takes the word "competiton" out, you simply cant have it where the top ranked teams go through, as i said, the group stages is there for them to go through anyway, with relative ease

ij and ideal world the world cup in any sport would be fought out between the top 2 teams, but thats sport, thats compeition, its unpredictable,. hence why sport is just so popular, ive a good mind to email sky about Paul Alootts` words, especially since we even put up more of a fight against south Africa then England did

mikeruurds

Marshy wrote:

Yeah I accept that we fully deserved to qualify. But what PA was questioning was the format of the tournament itself. The following may upset some people:
We just won the one game plus a draw against the other 'weak' side in our group. All it takes is one fluke result to get through. Thats not to take anything from the victory v Pak. Nobody is saying the top teams should get byes but the ideal situation would be where there'd be less riding on a one off game and more on consistency.

Ireland consistently performed well to qualify for the tournament and then maintained that consistency to qualify for the Super 8s.

It's important to be bringing new blood into the top tier of the game by giving the 'minnows' opportunities to shine in the WC. Pakistan and India were both exposed on the grassy caribbean pitches and were rightfully sent packing.

I don't see the win against Pakistan as being a fluke. The draw against Zimbabwe was crucial to Ireland's qualification too. Ireland have given all teams bar Australia a good game in the Super 8's.

The top teams are just feeling the heat and being shown up by the smaller ones. This is not a bad thing at all.

Mike

county

KevIRL wrote:

Englands World Cup begins here?

how many threads have you milked that in now?:p

fortunately i was working all day and missed the heartless wonders crumble

mikeruurds

Just to reiterate, the format only backfired because India and Pakistan were crap. Had they been on form Bangladesh and Ireland would've had an early exit from the competition.

Teh rulz is teh rulz. The ICC needs to give the associate countries a chance to qualify for the WC and the tournament would be incredibly long if there were effectively two super 8 groups with the top four sides going into a knockout format.

I quite like the current format. It puts all the sides in the group phase under pressure to perform from the start.

Edit: Watching Sky News for the 3rd time now. I love seeing the English bitch about their team's failures

Marshy

Ok valid points are being made in fairness.

I'd just want to say that I think PA was being more critical of the administrators rather than Ireland after that game. He's been fully supportive of us really since the start as have most of the sky analysts I think. Theres no doubt weve performed above all expectation in the tournament and have been one of the best stories in an arguably otherwise insipid tournament.

By the way anyone know what Bob willis' reaction to the bangladesh win was?

darkman2

I am so happy that this guy has gotten his just desserts.

http://home.skysports.com/cwc/article.aspx?hlid=460801&CPID=491&clid=3114&lid=&title=Ireland+out+of+their+depth+-+Allott&channel=cricket_world_cup&


How many wickets did England lose by?

mikeruurds

darkman2 wrote:

I am so happy that this guy has gotten his just desserts.

http://home.skysports.com/cwc/article.aspx?hlid=460801&CPID=491&clid=3114&lid=&title=Ireland+out+of+their+depth+-+Allott&channel=cricket_world_cup&


How many wickets did England lose by?

9 wickets with just over 30 overs to spare. They were battered.

Edit: In my opinion Allot is a bit of a tool. Anyone that makes ridiculous statements like he does is bound to be made look silly when his predictions backfire. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Pakistan deserved to go home. Ireland played out of their skins in the group stages and played as a unit. Why even bother investing millions in developing associate countries' players, facilities and governing bodies if you never intend allowing them to compete on a level playing field.

Allot's quote:
"It was great of them to do that but I think the ICC have to look at the earlier stages of the competition to try and ensure that the bigger teams get through, and that a fluke result doesn't cause somebody like Ireland to come into this level of the competition.
"You can't take anything away from Ireland but they just shouldn't be there at this stage of the competition."

Elitist prat.

county

mikeruurds wrote:

9 wickets with just over 30 overs to spare. They were battered.


humiliated i would have said

mikeruurds

county wrote:

humiliated i would have said

I'm trying to put a positive spin on the English effort

DMC

Allott was particularly bitter after the Australia game. Not so much in the other games, but he hammered the point after that. I think he failed to see that we competed well against the other teams.

mikeruurds wrote:

I quite like the current format. It puts all the sides in the group phase under pressure to perform from the start.

I actually don't. It might have worked better if India and Pakistan had qualified. There was a good post on the BBC site regarding other formats... if I could find it...

mikeruurds

Allot's a real begrudger.

You won't hear any former SA cricketing greats making those type of comments about Ireland or Bangladesh.

SA will play whoever they are scheduled to play without complaining that their opponents are not worthy to be in that stage of the tournament.

That Allot character has some nerve.

DMC

There is a lot of thought still in the English game that Ireland are not more than a minor county. Allott might be from that vintage. Atherton iirc certainly said so.

mikeruurds

DMC wrote:

Allott was particularly bitter after the Australia game. Not so much in the other games, but he hammered the point after that. I think he failed to see that we competed well against the other teams.

I actually don't. It might have worked better if India and Pakistan had qualified. There was a good post on the BBC site regarding other formats... if I could find it...

I have particularly enjoyed watching the Bangladeshi and Irish games. Yes... I would have liked to have seen Pakistan and India playing in the Super 8s, but not at Ireland and Bangladesh's expense.

If the ICC can find some mechanism to ensure that the top countries get through while still giving the 'weaker' teams a fair chance to progress in the tournament, then I'm all for it.

Endurance Man

Im so happy , perfect birthday present, now please just win the next.

mikeruurds

Endurance Man wrote:

Im so happy , perfect birthday present, now please just win the next.

Geluk met jou verjaarsdag maat. Excuse the Afrikaans, but I usually only get to converse with my wife

Why do SA always leave qualification till it's a must-win situation?

mikeruurds

If any fan has a right to complain about the structure, it's the South Africans.

Bloody Duckworth-Lewis coupled with group stage requirements have given us enough headaches in the past

DMC

mikeruurds wrote:

I have particularly enjoyed watching the Bangladeshi and Irish games.

I'm of the opinion that some of the only good games involved Ireland. Honestly. The games against Pakistan, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh were pockets of drama in a very weak CWC.

Patriotism aside, what other games were good? Sri Lanka - South Africa for the final 5 overs, Australia - SA until Kallis came to the crease and um... nothing else set the world on fire.

mikeruurds wrote:

If the ICC can find some mechanism to ensure that the top countries get through while still giving the 'weaker' teams a fair chance to progress in the tournament, then I'm all for it.

Its logical... we've had Super 6's, now Super 8's.... then it has to be Super TENS! (me thinks not, tho!)

mikeruurds

DMC wrote:

Patriotism aside, what other games were good? Sri Lanka - South Africa for the final 5 overs, Australia - SA until Kallis came to the crease and um... nothing else set the world on fire.

Highlights of this World Cup for me so far:

Zim vs. Ire
Pak vs. Ire & Ind vs. Bang on the same day
Ire vs. Eng (Eng. were ****e)
Aus vs. SA (until the infamous Smith cramp and Kallis batting)
SA vs. Sri
SA vs. Eng (love watching the Poms choke)
Frankly all the Aus games as they are a class outfit.

NZ vs. Aus [Had to put it in as it WILL be a cracker]

Mike

Chucky the tree

How did both of you's manage to leave out the Sri Lanka vs England game? That was the best game by far.


On the format, it doesnt work i dont think. I think teams like Ireland, banga, scotland, holland etc etc should play in a group stage themselves, with the top 2 joining the 8 "top" nations in 2 groups of 5, or a super 10.

mikeruurds

Chucky the tree wrote:

How did both of you's manage to leave out the Sri Lanka vs England game? That was the best game by far.

I missed it . Financial year end at the job at the moment.