Fear over rise in handgun applications

Clare gunner

Todays Examiner.[Email version]
Senior gardai have expressed concern at the sharp rise in the number of applications for handgun liscenses and the continued absence of adequate laws covering legal gunownership..... [Cntd]
Call me paranoid,but isnt this JUST too convienient that this is posted now with what we are campaining for, and now the Virginia campus shooting??
Edit
Read on and read De papers editorial on this as well!!!!More S""ITE!!
Well,if the Examiner is going to print this sort of emotional,hysterical anti gun rubbish.I suggest it is boycotted by any shooting organisations or busisnesses. Gettin Fed up with us gun owners always getting it in the neck,because of some loon in the US goes off his tree and we get the fallout.[/email]

Vegeta

yeah because everyone knows if you want a handgun for a crime you'll go and get a license for one, taking months of constant phone calls to the local gardai, huge investment in club membership/security tightening.

I thought gardai had to take an aptitude test, these guys obviously got in through the back door or something. Tools. Surely they realise just how awkward it is to get a license for a pistol.

jaycee

the continued absence of adequate laws covering legal gunownership

More likely the continued absence of people reading the CJB and keeping up to date. We have firearms legislation coming out of our ears.

civdef

This was always going to happen at some point, easy to forsee. Pity we're in the run up to an election - which tends to make politicians keen to find "issues".

CJhaughey

civdef wrote:

This was always going to happen at some point, easy to forsee. Pity we're in the run up to an election - which tends to make politicians keen to find "issues".

If the pollies want "issues" then they will get plenty of "issuance" from me as they or more lately their minions come canvassing....

Rosahane

It would be interesting to know just how many instances there have been of legally held firearms been used in a crime over the last couple of years - about 3 I reckon!

However, on the other hand illegal firearms use and availability is rocketing!

Below from the Observer...

Now if the Supers could focus on this:eek:

________________________________________

Gardai make record haul of firearms in 2006


Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
Sunday December 31, 2006
The Observer


More illegal firearms have been seized in the Irish Republic in the past 12 months than were found in Northern Ireland in any of the 20 years leading up to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.
The figures appear to justify claims by opposition politicians, bodies representing rank-and-file Gardai and the family of murdered journalist Veronica Guerin, that the Republic, particularly Dublin, is awash with illegal firearms.

Irish Justice Minister Michael McDowell has revealed that 562 weapons have been recovered under the Garda's anti-gangland Operation Anvil. The highest number of firearms ever recovered in Northern Ireland in one year was 489 in 1988. That year saw a massive upsurge in Provisional IRA and loyalist violence.

Sparks

Sent to the Editor this morning by the NTSA:

Dear Editor,

It was with dismay and disgust that I read the editorial pages of the Examiner on Wednesday. 32 people murdered in Virginia, the bodies barely cold, and already people are using their deaths for political ends. It is without doubt the most ghoulish aspect of the entire tragedy, to reduce those lives to debating points. Could we not mourn the dead before trying to use their deaths to make ideological points? It's made even worse by your scaremongering, and that of the Gardai, who are misrepresenting the current situation with Irish firearms laws. This scaremongering is frankly dangerous, and because of that, we wish to correct those misrepresentations.

Firstly, firearms license holders are NOT permitted to walk the streets carrying loaded handguns. This is prohibited by a number of laws, including the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990. I would expect "Senior Gardai" to know this.

Secondly, there is no urgent need to implement any measures in the Criminal Justice Act 2006. Firearms license holders and clubs all over the country are already complying with the drafted law BEFORE it has been commenced, despite the fact that enforcement of this law - at the cost of tens of thousands of euro to clubs - is completely illegal. We do this because we wish to be safe. It is because we take ownership of the issue of safety like this instead of waiting for the Minister to impose inexpertly drafted measures, that there has never been an injury because of target shooting in Ireland.

Thirdly, there are NO uncertain grounds for any Garda Superintendent at present when it comes to the licensing of firearms in Ireland. This is not thanks to the Department of Justice, but thanks to shooters and the NARGC who took a case in the Supreme Court five years ago, establishing beyond all doubt the primacy of the Superintendent as the licensing authority in Ireland. What the Superintendent says goes, goes. What he or she says does not, does not. There is no gray area in this regard, it is black and white and backed up by a Supreme Court case, Donne v Donoghue (2002). For "Senior Gardai" to claim otherwise is reprehensible and dangerous.

Fourthly, for Superintendents to suggest that legal obligations exist which do not (for example, storing a firearm in a gun safe is not yet a legal obligation, it's just what we all do because we're not stupid) is not merely reprehensible, it is an underhanded untruth and telling such untruths undermines the moral authority of an Garda Siochana, an act that both fellow Gardai and the public should be appalled at. And for these anonymous Superintendents you cite to suggest that firearms owners are breaking the law is libelous; and not only is it libelous, it indicates that these Superintendents are dangerously negligent. If they know of a law being so openly broken, why are they taking no action other than anonymous complaints in a national newspaper? Why not arrest those breaking this law?

Fifthly, to suggest licensed firearms are regularly stolen and used in crime is unbelievable, literally so. Because when asked in the Dail to provide the number of licensed firearms which were stolen and then used in crime, we were informed by the Minister for Justice that the Gardai do not keep track of such information and do not have the ability to do so. So was the Minister telling the truth to the Dail or was your anonymous "Senior Garda" telling the truth to you?

Sixthly, there is no such rule in the UK that pistols must be kept in a gun safe in a club and not moved without written permission. There is no such rule because there are no pistols other than air pistols legally owned in the UK, and there have been none since 1997 (which tragically has done nothing to stop the rise in gun crime there).

Finally Sir, printing such a medley of half-truths and untruths from anonymous sources as you have done, and the use by those anonymous sources of the murders of 32 innocent children on the other side of the world as a means to advance a political agenda before the upcoming general election, is a reprehensible act and deeply immoral and unethical. I am deeply distressed that a national newspaper would permit itself to be used in such an obscene manner. I call upon you, sir, as editor of the Examiner, to undertake to show sufficient respect for the loss suffered by the families of the dead in Virginia to never print such utter bile in their name again.

Mark Dennehy, Secretary
National Target Shooting Association

jaycee

It needed to be said ....

Well done...!

civdef

Sixthly, there is no such rule in the UK that pistols must be kept in a gun safe in a club and not moved without written permission.

Section 7.3 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997.

Sparks

Hmmmm. I thought he was referring to the tories' planned legislation that Labour went beyond to win the election. Mind you, the rule in that Act only applies to "Guns of historic interest with current calibres"...

sidneyreilly

Nice 1 Sparks:D

stevoman

sparks that is an excellent letter and very well wrote.

well done!!!!!

babybundy

i was waiting to see how long it would take

Rosahane wrote:

More illegal firearms have been seized in the Irish Republic in the past 12 months than were found in Northern Ireland in any of the 20 years leading up to the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.
.

thats cos they were all in use not just floating around

astraboy

That letter was very well written. In fairness, if someone is going to use their firearm for criminal purposes they are not going to jump through all the legal hoops like law abiding shooters are! They are going to go to their local scumbag drug dealer that can import all types of weapons with the next shipment of drugs they land on the coast. Cracking down on legally held guns will do NOTHING about gangs using guns or gun crime itself.

Dr Strange

Well done, Sparks! Very impressive letter. Would you let us know about any replies you may get from the Examiner? Would be very interesting.

Best,
Preusse

Dr Strange

astraboy wrote:

... In fairness, if someone is going to use their firearm for criminal purposes they are not going to jump through all the legal hoops like law abiding shooters are! ... Cracking down on legally held guns will do NOTHING about gangs using guns or gun crime itself.

Absolutely agree.

Best,
Preusse

Clare gunner

BRAVO!!! ROUND OF APPLAUSE TO SPARKS On this!!!:D
Nicely said and presented.Hopefully it will sink into some skulls down in De Paper!!Especially on the libel issue of shooters!
Can we follow this up by using Sparks letter as a template and emailing /faxing this to the editor and Cormac O Keefe to point out the error of their ways???
Lets kick them where it hurts!!!!:D

Oh BTW if anyone says to u again that this is the worst tragedy in the USA etc ,.Remind them of Bath ,Michigan 1927.
No one ever heard of it either???OK,A fellow by the name of Andrew Kehoe,blew up the school there with gelignite ,45 dead kids under 10.How easily we forget over there in the US:rolleyes: Thanks Indymedia!!;)

Sparks

Can we follow this up by using Sparks letter as a template and emailing /faxing this to the editor and Cormac O Keefe

Let's just wait until tomorrow to give them the benefit of the doubt.

ironsight

Congratulation's Sparks, a most eloquent, well written, educated, informative, and precise piece of literature on the subject. Just a pity that it is wasted on the media in general, as it wont serve to sell their papers or highlight our seemingly all knowing and superoir politicians who are suddenly keen to find "issues" of concern to us the public.
If I were in their position I would be more concerned with the apparant lack of knowledge and understanding displayed by the "Garda Siochana"

But it had to be said, and you said it well.

Mufflets

Excellent letter Sparks. Well done , look forward to hearing any updates.

J.R.

excellent letter - comprehensive, well written & researched and to the point. Well done!

Mezamo

Typical knee jerk reaction when some kid in the U.S with obvious phycological problems blows 32 people away. the media here try and hype it up to create a frenzy!!! has this sort of thing ever happened in this country??? NO. So leave us alone Mc Dowell.It's hard enough to be a gun owner in Ireland anyway!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

P.S. Sparks you should give Des Crofton a call we could do with someone like you writing letters to the Dept Of Justice!!!

Dvs

well said Sparks
Dvs.

Clare gunner

MMM .Pity "De Paper" didnt bother to reprint it today in the letters colum.:mad:
Obviously ,a letter written in such style cannot possibly be written by a red neck,knuckle dragging,illiterate,gun nut!!:rolleyes: So it must be a fake.!!
Reckon it is time to show them differently folks.:)

Sparks

Have you checked the print version or the online version CG?

les45

Outstanding letter Mark, well done

John

Bananaman

great letter - needed to be said.

Similar article in yesterdays Evening Herald about people being allowed to carry firearms. A sort of "The guy on the next stool in the pub could have one on the hip" type article.

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

Have you checked the print version or the online version CG?

Nope,just have online.Was it printed???

Sparks

Was it printed?

Nope.
Re-submitted it and wrote to Cormac O'Keefe pointing out that every sentence in the article was a lie or just untrue, bar the last two bits from the NARGC and from the DoJ saying what was commenced in the Firearms act.

Oh just another little ditty about Virgina tech shooting.

No. I dislike the idea of us being one of the vultures.

astraboy

edit: We are not discussing the Virginia Tech shootings in here. It was a tragic horrific event, and it has nothing to do with shooting sports or sport shooting and I'd like us not to descend to the level of the tabloid press.

As regards firearms in Ireland, is there a specific clause in the updated firearms act preventing someone carrying their handgun concealed? I realize anyone stupid enough to do so needs to be punished but what exactly does the law say?

Sparks

astraboy wrote:

As regards firearms in Ireland, is there a specific clause in the updated firearms act preventing someone carrying their handgun concealed? I realize anyone stupid enough to do so needs to be punished but what exactly does the law say?

Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990. An entire Act saying you can't carry firearms or offensive weapons in a public place, regardless of your intent to use them or lack of same.