Boyracers sent to prison

eamon234

what an a$$hole

Lorax

E@gle. wrote:

Why are they eejits for walking??

The hard shoulder is not for walking on. Thats what footpaths are for. Jesus. Over 250 people are killed every year in the UK walking on the hard shoulder. If theres no footpath you shouldnt be walking there.

Stark

Last time I checked the RotR, pedestrians were allowed use any non-motorway road that they liked. If a pedestrian is killed, then it's the car that shouldn't have been in the hard shoulder, not the pedestrian.

Lorax

I just wish people would see the other side of the coin for a minute. Yes they were just speeding. The dangerous driving incident was speeding.

As Barry was overtaking, Browne's Fiat swerved suddenly into the hard shoulder. He swerved back out again at speed, narrowly missing the two pedestrians.

My point was - the pedestrians shouldnt even have been there. Sending these 2 lads to jail isnt gonna solve anything. Where do you draw the line. If I do 140km/h in a 120km/h zone on the m50, should I get 4 months jail too? No you say? Well what if theres 2 people jogging up the m50, and I nearly kill them because I have to use the hard shoulder (which *I* am entitled to, being in a car and all) - should I get 4 months jail then?

Its just criminalising 2 more people. Yes give them a driving ban, get them off the road. 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, lifetime ban, whatever I just think jail is insanely harsh. I guarantee this jail sentence is going to have a negative effect on them. Firstly after seeing how easy it is doing time in Ireland -tvs, radios, pool tables, gyms, ps2s, etc - they wont fear returning to jail, so will push the limits of the law. This is very common in Ireland. Just look at statistics for people in mountjoy who are there because of re-offending.

The correct solution would have been a 5 year driving ban, and 240 days community service, or something similar. And if they are caught driving during the ban period, THEN sentence them.

Stark

Lorax wrote:

My point was - the pedestrians shouldnt even have been there.

On the left we have the law of this country. On the right, we have Lorax, who was caught for illegal use of the hard shoulder and didn't even realise he was in the wrong. I know which one I trust more.

Lorax wrote:

No you say? Well what if theres 2 people jogging up the m50, and I nearly kill them because I have to use the hard shoulder (which *I* am entitled to, being in a car and all) - should I get 4 months jail then?

Please say you're just trolling and not severely brain damaged. Yes it's illegal for a pedestrian to be on the M50. No, that does not mean you're entitled to mow them down for using it. And no, you shouldn't get 4 months jailtime if you hit them, you should should get whatever sentence is appropriate for the murder of 2 people.

C_Breeze

Lorax wrote:

I just wish people would see the other side of the coin for a minute. Yes they were just speeding. The dangerous driving incident was speeding.

My point was - the pedestrians shouldnt even have been there. Sending these 2 lads to jail isnt gonna solve anything. Where do you draw the line. If I do 140km/h in a 120km/h zone on the m50, should I get 4 months jail too? No you say? Well what if theres 2 people jogging up the m50, and I nearly kill them because I have to use the hard shoulder (which *I* am entitled to, being in a car and all) - should I get 4 months jail then?

Its just criminalising 2 more people. Yes give them a driving ban, get them off the road. 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, lifetime ban, whatever I just think jail is insanely harsh. I guarantee this jail sentence is going to have a negative effect on them. Firstly after seeing how easy it is doing time in Ireland -tvs, radios, pool tables, gyms, ps2s, etc - they wont fear returning to jail, so will push the limits of the law. This is very common in Ireland. Just look at statistics for people in mountjoy who are there because of re-offending.

The correct solution would have been a 5 year driving ban, and 240 days community service, or something similar. And if they are caught driving during the ban period, THEN sentence them.

Yeah I agree with you, people should think about this logically and realistically for a moment instead of the whole lynch mob / witch hunt attitude . Jail is much too harsh. Prison sentences should be reserved for real filth and scum not for some spanner that thinks he's great driving around in a shoebox.

littlejukka

Lorax wrote:

The correct solution would have been a 5 year driving ban, and 240 days community service, or something similar.

are you a judge? do you have any clue how to interpret irish law? i suspect strongly that the answer to both of these questions is veering to the no.

Lorax wrote:

And if they are caught driving during the ban period, THEN sentence them

and if they kill somebody next time? the justice system is in place to punish, but also to protect. protecting future potential victims of idiocy as outlined above is paramount.

C_Breeze

Stark wrote:

And no, you shouldn't get 4 months jailtime if you hit them, you should get whatever sentence is appropriate for the murder of 2 people.

That comment is stupid.

...If i say more ill just get banned

littlejukka

C_Breeze wrote:

That comment is stupid.

...If i say more ill just get banned

why is it stupid? if you can't come up with a coherent rebuttal to what you believe is an unjustified statement, why do you bother typing anything at all?

killing two people cannot be defended with a "they was being thick".

C_Breeze

you're telling me that if you knock over two pedestrians on a hard shoulder by accident , you should be done for murder?

Stark

There's no possible way you could knock over two pedestrians in the hard shoulder of a motorway "by accident".

Lorax

C_Breeze wrote:

Yeah I agree with you, people should think about this logically and realistically for a moment instead of the whole lynch mob / witch hunt attitude . Jail is much too harsh. Prison sentences should be reserved for real filth and scum not for some spanner that thinks he's great driving around in a shoebox.

Finally some sense. I wasnt trying to convince anyone that these guys should be allowed on the road - they clearly shouldnt, just trying to make them see that basically what they were doing was speeding. They were discriminated against because they were young males. If it was my dad racing my uncle or something, they would just be done for speeding, if that. Pretty sure they wouldnt get 4 months in jail. This is age discrimination. I for one am sick of it.

are you a judge? do you have any clue how to interpret irish law? i suspect strongly that the answer to both of these questions is veering to the no.

Well when you look at the amount of repeat offenders in our prisons, and the amount of MURDERERS and manslaughter cases that are walking the streets now, its fairly obvious somethings not right with our judicial system. Sure wasnt a rapist let off the hook with a suspended sentence just a few weeks ago, in Limerick or somewhere - forcing the victim to reveal her identity to appeal to the public/legal system. Yes, This guy broke into a womans house, held her down and RAPED her in her own bed, while her 3 kids slept in the next room. And hes walking the streets now having not served a day. Heres the link: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0313/breaking80.htm
So dont start ****ing lecturing me on the judicial system in this country. It consists of spontaneous sentences, with little or no consistency.

These guys were speeding, and dangerous driving, SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK ON IRISH ROADS. I saw a truck nearly running a micra off the road last week, because he tried to pull into the fast lane and didnt see the micra in his mirror, forcing said micra to brake hard and me nearly running into the back of him. (on a 100km/h road) Do you think that truck driver should be in jail aswell yea? No. He should be off the road, not made a criminal out of and sent to jail.

Thats what the system is doing. Making criminals out of these. Dumping them into the same category as murderers, rapists, child molestors, armed robbers, burglars, etc. By sending them to jail statistically they are now 60% more likely to re-offend, link :
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1206/prison.html

littlejukka

C_Breeze wrote:

you're telling me that if you knock over two pedestrians on a hard shoulder by accident , you should be done for murder?

if you're doing 140kph on the hard shoulder while playing the fool with your mate in his own car and kill those pedestrians then you should be punished to the full extent of the law. no defense.

the mentality of somebody who would spend their evenings "KILLARNEY RALLY 2 YEARS AGO ME HANGIN OUT DA WINDOW OF BRIANS RED STARLET" (see the bebo page flashbox) and racing on a national route isn't something i'd like to share the roads with. off the road. great. in jail. hopefully it'll get him to cop on.

Lorax

Stark wrote:

Please say you're just trolling and not severely brain damaged. Yes it's illegal for a pedestrian to be on the M50. No, that does not mean you're entitled to mow them down for using it. And no, you shouldn't get 4 months jailtime if you hit them, you should should get whatever sentence is appropriate for the murder of 2 people.

Umm ohh I dunno, a serious crash happens in both lanes of the m50 right in front of you, you have 2 choices:

1) Drive straight into the accident at 70mph killing yourself and all the occupants of your car
2) Drive into the hard shoulder and avoid the accident

Wow thats a tough choice. Hmm a real noodle-scratcher. If I drive into the hard shoulder to avoid a crash, and theres pedestrians there (which they shouldnt be) that I didnt see, should I get double-murder charges for killing them yes? Ok. You're the boss. Sorry for questioning you Judge Stark.

littlejukka

Lorax wrote:

...he tried to pull into the fast lane and didnt see the micra in his mirror, forcing said micra to brake hard and me nearly running into the back of him. (on a 100km/h road)

you were clearly tailgating or not paying attention. hand in your license to the nearest garda station. do not pass go. do not collect 200 "yo-yos" or whatever it is the proles are calling them these days.

littlejukka

Lorax wrote:

Umm ohh I dunno, a serious crash happens in both lanes of the m50 right in front of you, you have 2 choices:

1) Drive straight into the accident at 70mph killing yourself and all the occupants of your car
2) Drive into the hard shoulder and avoid the accident

Wow thats a tough choice. Hmm a real noodle-scratcher. If I drive into the hard shoulder to avoid a crash, and theres pedestrians there (which they shouldnt be) that I didnt see, should I get double-murder charges for killing them yes? Ok. You're the boss. Sorry for questioning you Judge Stark.

so it's better to kill pedestrians than motorists? that's a fantastic solution. Lorax for the dáil.

Stark

Lorax wrote:

Umm ohh I dunno, a serious crash happens in both lanes of the m50 right in front of you, you have 2 choices:

1) Drive straight into the accident at 70mph killing yourself and all the occupants of your car
2) Drive into the hard shoulder and avoid the accident

Option 3)

Be keeping a safe distance from the car in front so that if there's a serious accident, you've time to brake and stop.

littlejukka

Stark wrote:

Option 3)

Be keeping a safe distance from the car in front so that if there's a serious accident, you've time to brake and stop.

i think you might be overestimating the congregation here.

Lorax

littlejukka wrote:

so it's better to kill pedestrians than motorists? that's a fantastic solution. Lorax for the dáil.

To be honest with ya, I would rather kill 2 pedestrians who I dont know and are illegally walking in the hard shoulder of a motorway, than myself and my girlfriend.

Stark

Besides, I see no mention of any serious accident in the above report. You seem to be advocating that it's okay to gun down a pedestrian while weaving in and out of the hard shoulder for "fun". And on a motorway, you'd see the pedestrians for miles ahead, so it would really take something for you to hit them while weaving in and out of the hard shoulder/stopping for a fag break or whatever.

littlejukka wrote:

i think you might be overestimating the congregation here.

Yes, the 2-second rule might be a little fine-grained for the frequency at which Lorax's brain runs.

littlejukka

Lorax wrote:

To be honest with ya, I would rather kill 2 pedestrians who I dont know and are illegally walking in the hard shoulder of a motorway, than myself and my girlfriend.

i'm sure when yourself and your girlfriend get out of the car, wipe the blood off the bonnet and start walking up the hard shoulder to ring for help, the fella that runs you over will have exercised the same priveledge of self-preservation.

edanto

Lorax wrote:

I just wish people would see the other side of the coin for a minute. Yes they were just speeding. The dangerous driving incident was speeding.

There is no other side to the coin. There is no coin. They were driving dangerously. If I'd been the judge, they wouldn't be driving for another 10 years.

My point was - the pedestrians shouldnt even have been there. Sending these 2 lads to jail isnt gonna solve anything.

They had every right to be there! For one thing, if they were walking they were probably near home. There probably wasn't a footpath - it's scary to think what might have happened if they weren't wearing high-vis.

And maybe sending them to jail will solve something. Maybe idiots that think it's ok to race on roads will slow down.

What's so great about speeding? Wow, you can push an accelerator with your foot.... and control the steering wheel. What a pinnacle of evolution.

Oh and Lorax - a pointer just for you. Cars in front have to stop quickly sometimes...kids run out...people get blowouts and panic-brake.... you don't just swerve around into the hard shoulder, you leave enough space to stop safely. Same way that you nearly ran into the Micra (happy for you that you didn't, by the way), you were probably too close.

Wossack

Lorax wrote:

To be honest with ya, I would rather kill 2 pedestrians who I dont know and are illegally walking in the hard shoulder of a motorway, than myself and my girlfriend.

This is just a shocking attitude to have. No wonder they tell you to stay in your car in the event of an accident on the motorway - with attitudes like this :eek:

hows about some keeping proper distances from the car ahead? surprised your girlfriend gets in the passenger seat tbh

TerrorFirmer

Good riddance. Won't have to see that POS on the roads around Oranmore for the next few years.

Lorax - words fail me. The picture you paint would have us believe that the poor guys were merely caught speeding and sent to prison. Does the fact that they were not only speeding, but weaving all over the road, racing, and almost killing two pedestrians, who had every right to be there incidentally, escape you?

Wossack

micmclo wrote:

He he Don Jose, you got him there

I'm not 100% sure but a criminal conviction may stop them from ever working in Amercia or Australia.
I've no idea what the lads ever planned, but thats a serious consequence for a lot of young people.

I thought that if you had a criminal conviction you weren't even allowed visit some countries (including the ones from above) - is that just an urban myth?

Seth Brundle

Right - I think this has become a bit of a futile discussion.
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. In terms of our roads, accidents rarely happen!
Now Im closing this!