VLK's

workaccount

If most of your systems are bought from a manufacturer that provides oem versions of windows then is it worth getting VLKs?

I want to have the exact same image for each machine and have a ghosting server on the network so that if anything goes wrong they can be reimaged in no time at all. Can't do that with oems though.

seamus

VLKs are extremely useful if you like to build your own images, customised installs and/or unattended installs.

We have about 1700 client machines at present. We buy them all in with OEM preinstalled, wipe them and dump our own image on them. You can't get machines from the manufacturers without the OS preinstalled so there's no real way around it. Of course, at the volumes we're installing, I'd be sure that the bulk discounts on the hardware and OSes would more than offset the cost of throwing away an OEM licence.

If you're really serious about it, I would recommend this;
Build two images and put them on the boot server. One OEM, one VLK. Use the VLK image for machines that don't have an OEM key. Use the OEM image for machines that do have an OEM key.
When you boot the OEM image, you should see an error or be otherwise asked to reactivate Windows. Go through the process, using the OEM key attached to the machine.

You can't really* use the one image and interchange the keys, because an OEM install won't accept a VLK Key and vice-versa.

*Actually you can. Microsoft provide a key changer tool that allows you to change the key on your copy of windows to any other type of valid key, regardless of the type of install. This is much more time-consuming than having two images though, IMO

workaccount

Ok. So if I make a OEM image lets say of 1 machine for a test. Are you saying I could install this on six machines and the product key on the back of each one would work for that same image? Because that would be sound seeing as Id have to attend the machine im ghosting anyway...then just type in the key....no problems. Or have I missed something?

seamus

Yeah that's pretty much it. The newly-ghosted machine should tell you that the key is invalid. Ideally, you would build the image without activating Windows. That way, you just start the activation Wizard after ghosting, enter the correct key and activate.

You will find after thirty days though that every new machine must be activated before you can even log into them.

Note that I haven't done this before, but the theory seems sound to me.

workaccount

seamus wrote:

Yeah that's pretty much it. The newly-ghosted machine should tell you that the key is invalid. Ideally, you would build the image without activating Windows. That way, you just start the activation Wizard after ghosting, enter the correct key and activate.

You will find after thirty days though that every new machine must be activated before you can even log into them.

Note that I haven't done this before, but the theory seems sound to me.

Im not actually sure that this would work. I think I was stuck before and installed an oem copy (came factory installed on a Dell) of windows on a compaq. It worked fine on the compaq with the product key and activated it over the internet. That windows copy wouldn't work on any more machines. I assume then that oems like dell dont activate their copys at the factory. If its activated once thats it unless you ring them up but you could only do that so many times without it being a massive workload.


How much would it cost for a 100 user VLK anyone?

seamus

You can actually activate OEMs a couple of times without having to ring.

If you create the image without activating it, it should work on other machines - just use the OEM key of each machine you put the image onto.

Stephen

seamus wrote:

We have about 1700 client machines at present. We buy them all in with OEM preinstalled, wipe them and dump our own image on them. You can't get machines from the manufacturers without the OS preinstalled so there's no real way around it. Of course, at the volumes we're installing, I'd be sure that the bulk discounts on the hardware and OSes would more than offset the cost of throwing away an OEM licence.

Seamus, if you source your client machines from Dell you should be able to get them shipped with your own image installed on them - that's what we do here. We supply Dell with our image that has been set up with all the necessary drivers and apps and stuff on it (we update it when Dell release new models that we'd be purchasing). Its really handy.
I'm sure they have some kind of number of machines you'd need to be buying off them regularly to do this for you but you don't have a whole lot fewer machines than we do.

I don't know if they're still charging us for the OEM licence -- the machines do still come with windows licence stickers on them.

seamus

We only buy some laptops from Dell, but I'm not directly involved in the setting up of the images. We're part of a global conglomerate who release the initial images. Then we customise them for our region, and create a new image for each type of machine it may be put on. There's a whole pile of customisation in there that automatically joins it to the domain, changes some policy settings etc, that would stop it from being feasible to get the OEM to do it for us. I suspect the security team would prevent it too.

Nice idea though. Dell have an agreement with Microsoft, that basically prevents them shipping a desktop or laptop that doesn't include an MS OEM licence, so I'd say you're paying for them anyway

workaccount

Is it not better to use anything other than Dell for your desktops seeing as they contain proprietary parts?

seamus

workaccount wrote:

Is it not better to use anything other than Dell for your desktops seeing as they contain proprietary parts?

That assumes that you need to change or replace parts in your desktops.

The most we would change would be disks (when they die) or RAM (if it's a power user). Both can be obtained from generic providers. We use HP desktops, which contain similarly proprietary parts.

workaccount

seamus wrote:

That assumes that you need to change or replace parts in your desktops.

The most we would change would be disks (when they die) or RAM (if it's a power user). Both can be obtained from generic providers. We use HP desktops, which contain similarly proprietary parts.

Fair enough I suppose your not going to need to change the likes of a MB or Power supply often but it will cost alot extra as Im sure you know yourself anyway.

Is it just Dell, HP and Fujitsu Siemens that seem to cover the majority of the market for corporate desktops? How do they compete among each other? Price, support contracts....

seamus

Price and support generally. Companies will get favourable pricing for buying in bulk, as well as discounted OEM software, extras such as USB keys, and that kind of thing.

Most companies tend to choose a vendor for their machines and stick with them, so that the fleet is more-or-less standard across the company. It also makes it easier to spot who has the best/worst machines and so on. Also, if you're going to be locked into a vendor's proprietary stuff, it may as well be all one vendor. That is, we can buy in 10k's worth of RAM for HP desktops, and it's interchangeable (mostly). There's no need to try and decide what desktops need what, or split the purchase of RAM between Dell and Compaq.
Other issues with mixing hardware can also appear - A previous place I worked in had mixed hardware. The HPs would take any type of keyboard and mouse, but the Dells would only take USB ones. So I had to "confiscate" USB mice and keyboards from some users to ensure that we had complete machines.