Messi take a bow

KdjaCL

Pighead wrote:

Hey hey, why the sad face, if as you claim(and which I agree with) football is better now then who cares what it took to make it better. Sure players and managers are earning obscene amounts of money, but fcuk it, once the end product is pleasing to my eye then who cares.

In this age of intesnse media scrutiny the chancers are soon found out. As viewers we're not getting ripped off.

of all the people to quote that...shame on you......

Where are all the decent irish players who didnt make it playing now?


kdjac

eirebhoy

A better standard of football doesn't necessarily make it better to watch though. I'd much prefer to watch poorer defences and more space for the attackers.

Pighead

KdjaCL wrote:

of all the people to quote that...shame on you......

Where are all the decent irish players who didnt make it playing now?


kdjac

Actually you make a good point and if there were a smiley indicating a round face leaving the thread with his tail between his legs, I would use it. In the absence of such a smiley I will use this one.:o

The immense power of Sky blurred my weak weak mind for one horrible post. Once again,

KdjaCL

eirebhoy wrote:

A better standard of football doesn't necessarily make it better to watch though. I'd much prefer to watch poorer defences and more space for the attackers.

Not if your team is the team with the "poorer" defence.


kdjac

MrJoeSoap

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Going to be?

Exactly what I thought.

Also, 4 players?? It was more like 6!

kinaldo

Soccernet's Phil Ball following Messi's hatrick against Real Madrid:

Messi was the topic of much of the conversation. Not only because of his historic hat-trick in front of a 98,000 crowd, but because of his ability to seemingly pass through spaces that to all intents and purposes do not exist. He runs with the ball seemingly glued to his left foot, disappears at speed into a crowd of opposing players, then emerges at the other end like a silent-movie trickster, darting and flitting at unnatural speed, virtually unstoppable.

Like Maradona, he has that indefinable ability to make you think that if he chooses to keep the ball, no-one can actually take it off him. Poor Michel Salgado must have been dreaming of retirement at times during the match, and of how wonderful it would be to never have to face this little demon again.

Of course, Messi does not possess even half of Maradona's physical strength, and it is largely his ability to simply steer clear of challenges that keeps him on his feet and in the game. You also get the feeling with Messi that one really big clout from a defender is likely to send him hobbling to the changing-rooms. It's the only thing at the moment that stands between the little Argentine and immortality.

Then again, he wasn't really the man-of-the-match. That badge belongs to Guti, the mother of all enigmas. He should form some kind of society with Ivan de la Peña and Juan Román Riquelme (now back in Argentina).

They should call it 'The men who should have been great' - the men whose psychological make-up prevented them from ever really climbing up onto the podium of the gods. This is Guti's twelfth season with Madrid, and all he has to show for it (apart from the odd trophy) is a measly thirteen international caps. As they say, he must be doing something wrong.

He wasn't on Saturday night though. I know that I called him 'crap' in this column a few weeks ago, but I was referring more to his attitude than to his ability.

Guti is one of a small elite of Spanish midfielders who are considered by the press as 'vertical', one of a set of magical high-approval words in Spanish football vocabulary. This particular epithet refers less to Guti's ability to stand straight than to his tendency to always move forward with the ball, straight as an arrow into enemy territory.

Guti, despite his slight physique, is like Messi - a challenger of men. He differs in style, however, by his tendency to always seek the space which the opposing midfielders have left momentarily unguarded, and through which he either attempts to run - rather like a rabbit pursued by a pack of hounds - or through which he attempts to thread the ball, often hard, low and perceptively. He also has an uncanny ability to suddenly change the direction of play.

It's no coincidence that Van Nistlerooy looks twice the player when Guti's around. Instead of dropping deep and feeding off scraps, never the Dutchman's strength, the ball is suddenly arrowing to his feet whenever Guti is in the vicinity, or just given a slight angle to invite him to turn and take on the marking defender.

Other teams' supporters harbour a particular dislike for Guti because his 'verticality' almost always results in him pushing the ball slightly too far in front as he picks up speed (as opposed to the Messi 'glue' tactic), inviting defenders to slide in. Guti then flies into the air with the greatest of ease, nose-diving to the ground like a pheasant full of shot, then rolling several yards like a stunt-performer on final-day rehearsal. He has invariably been fouled (Marquez subjected him to a passable version of common assault on Saturday night) but he always makes sure that we know about it.

But on his day, there is no better left-sided midfielder in La Liga. Madrid's various managers have rarely trusted him to carry the weight of the team's creative department during the last twelve years, probably because of his legendary inconsistency and his ability to invariably say the wrong thing to the press, at the wrong time.

He never seems to have quite recovered from his early days of fame in the late 1990's, when he discovered that his new girlfriend was in fact a transvestite. Not that one wishes to be transvestist in any way, but it did take Guti an alarmingly long time to find out.

It also seems to have taken him an alarmingly long time to find out that when he decides to control the destiny of a game, he is perfectly capable of doing so.

Guti, like all sensitive souls, loves to be loved. If you put him in the starting line-up, you send out a message to both the player and the opponents. Capello's, in this case, was that Madrid were going to make a go of it, that they were intending to play their way to three points, instead of just hustling for them.

full article

PHB

To me, when I watch the great players of the past, like say Best, I never think that it's bad defending. Just like when I watch Ronaldo now, I never think that it's bad defender.

Against the great players, Pele, Mardonna, Zidane, it's to do with their skill rather than bad defending.

leninbenjamin

PHB wrote:

To me, when I watch the great players of the past, like say Best, I never think that it's bad defending. Just like when I watch Ronaldo now, I never think that it's bad defender.

Against the great players, Pele, Mardonna, Zidane, it's to do with their skill rather than bad defending.

i always think it's 6 to one half a dozen to the other. I think almost every goal scored, every attack, play etc. can in principle be defended. What i think is the role of the attacker is to force the errors from the defender and exploit them, either by pressure, confounding with skills, strength, etc. What makes an attacker great is the ability to force the errors from the defender, Ronaldo and others at their best just make the defenders look stupid... Defense and organisation evolve over time to counter the attacking threats, as it was said a Pele from the 50s would find modern defenders difficult to play against. The role of the attacker is as much to generate new methods of attacking as anything else... hence we see new tricks, new skills, new plays, attacking formation with ever generation. i wouldn't be surprised if in 20 - 30 years from now defenders would find players like Ronaldo a cake walk to defend against.

in other words i feel good skill doesn't occur without bad defending, but i think it's a testiment to the great players that they force these errors and exploit them fully.

Raskolnikov

It's a great peice of individual skill and a very good goal. Having said that, I'm more impressed by goals which the entire team have an input in (eg, Uniteds second against Roma or that goal that Argentina got in the World Cup).

MisterAnarchy

eirebhoy wrote:

Football has come on leaps and bounds in the last 20 years.

I read an interview with Steve Kinden (ex Wolves) and he said it best. He reckoned if you got a time machine and brought Pele of 1970 to the present day and put him in a top standard match he'd really struggle with the standard. But, if you went back to 1950 and took him as a 10 year old and he grew up with the current game he'd still be as good.

I'm not 100% sure but I think Puskas never actually played in a competitive 0-0 draw in his life. That was around the 50's. These days the game is so much about tactics, fitness, scouting, video analysis, etc. that it's much tougher for guys like Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, etc. than it was when Maradona played imo.

As a Celtic fan I think the days of destroying teams away from home every week are gone, no matter how good Celtic get. The standard of player is not really any better than it ever was but that counts less and less these days. Greece won the European Championships ffs.

btw - You should watch a few games on ESPN Classic and look at the space players got back then compared to now.

You must remember teams were much more attack minded in the older eras.
The Chapman M-W formation only used 3 defenders .
There was more onus on scoring than defending.
Compare the present League of Ireland to that of 40 years ago.
Todays teams would be destroyed by the older teams,they would give them a football lesson.
The game today is so much about fitness that alot of English lower league players are athletes first ,footballers second.
Fitness comes before skill.
You didnt have that problem 30-40 years ago .
You can only be the best of your era.

i wouldn't be surprised if in 20 - 30 years from now defenders would find players like Ronaldo a cake walk to defend against.

Blistering pace can and always has been difficult to counter.

stovelid

Has Pele been rolled out yet to say that while Messi is good, he's not the greatest player in the world?

Davidth88

Watched it on TV last night ( on the news ) . Interestingly they interlinked it with a certain goal scored in Mexico by a rather short Argie ( can't bring myself to say his name )

It's remarkably similar


I agree goal of the year for sure !

leninbenjamin

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Blistering pace can and always has been difficult to counter.

pace in itself isn't enough (Djibril Cisse is pretty quick but no one rates him). you also need the intelligence to plan runs so you don't end up stuck out the middle of nowhere. that in itself means exploiting the defensive lines and errors (the nature of which tend to evolve over time).

if you look at the Messi goal, when he gets near the box the positioning of the defenders is hopeless. one goes the wrong side, which offered Messi the chance to go more central, and the next defender commits himself to the slide. he'd have had a much better chance if he stayed on his feet and had positioned himself to force messi much wider. Messi was still probably among the few who could have made a goal like that, but it still doesn't mean the defenders couldn't have done better.

mike65

Did Messi get a decent run going against Liverpool in the CL game?

I think he managed one attack in that 'high pressure' 20 min spell during the first half.

Its not just about the player its about who he playing.

Mike.

MisterAnarchy

Watching the Messi goal over again it seems he keeps his head down all the way and doesnt seem to look at the opponents positioning at all.
Bit weird.

Mushy

Great goal. Unbelievable player he is.

Anyone watch the split screen one, and realise how funny the commentary is on it?

LegacyUser

Don't forget about my boy Ronaldinho! He will be back in the limelight!!! He will!!!!!!!!!!

leninbenjamin

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Watching the Messi goal over again it seems he keeps his head down all the way and doesnt seem to look at the opponents positioning at all.
Bit weird.

well he does seem to lift the head a few times, so i'd say he just saw all the space he had to run into and just said to hell with it. i'd hazard that he has pretty good peripheral vision too, with the head down he still seems to know where the challenges are gonna come from.

Mushy wrote:

Anyone watch the split screen one, and realise how funny the commentary is on it?

i was in stitches for about 15 minutes. GolGolGolGolGolGolGolGolGol... MessiMessiMessiMessiMessiMessi...

shane86

Davidth88 wrote:

Watched it on TV last night ( on the news ) . Interestingly they interlinked it with a certain goal scored in Mexico by a rather short Argie ( can't bring myself to say his name )

Its amazingly alike alright.

As good as it was, if he had ****ed up he would have got criticism for not passing to someone else instead of making the dash. There are at least two players in a position near the box from which they could make their own run if he passed. It was a gamble that paid off but a risky one.

Still, jaw dropping stuff. Hope to see him whack in a replay of that against England in 2010

eirebhoy

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1r5c9_comparativa-gol-de-messi-y-marad

Call Me Jimmy

CorkMan wrote:

You didn't put in Robinho

That's because he's ****

LegacyUser

Robinho ****? Are you taking the piss?

Makaveli

mike65 wrote:

Did Messi get a decent run going against Liverpool in the CL game?

I think he managed one attack in that 'high pressure' 20 min spell during the first half.

Its not just about the player its about who he playing.

Mike.

He still wasn't fully match fit against Liverpool.

Getafe may not be Liverpool but Bernd Schuster has had an excellent season with them, the fact that they're in the Copa Del Rey Semi-Final and coming 9th in the league when many would have considered them to be in a relegation battle before the season started says it all. They currently have the best defensive record in La Liga. They beat Valencia 4-2 in the Mestalla. They're no mugs.

Pepe LeFrits

cheesedude wrote:

Robinho ****? Are you taking the piss?

He certainly isn't ****, but he's not great either. He doesn't merit being mentioned alongside Ronaldo, Fabregas, Messi etc anymore.

Mitch Connor

mike65 wrote:

Did Messi get a decent run going against Liverpool in the CL game?

I think he managed one attack in that 'high pressure' 20 min spell during the first half.

Its not just about the player its about who he playing.

Mike.

yeah - cause after months out injured, i was expecting him to be on top form straigt away too.