Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

muffler

Nameless1 wrote: »

Hi all,
Just a query regarding retention permission:
A friend of mine converted the attic of his house into 2 bedrooms, 1 WC and a small store in 2005. 3 velux windows and a dormer window were added to the rear of the house but the neighbours house was behind his so he got a written letter from the neighbour stating that he (neighbour) had no objections to the conversion. There was also 1 small velux window added to the front of the house. The house is located in the countryside.

Planning permission was not sought at the time but his neighbour is now moving and I was wondering if the new neighbour can object to these windows?

Also if he (friend) was to sell the house would there be a problem that planning permission was not sought for the conversion?

Would it be better to go for retention now before problems start to arise? Should have he got permission in the first place? Thanks

The new neighbour, like anyone else in the country, is entitled to either make a complaint to the local authority now and/or make an objection during the course of a planning application.

Given the fact that its a country area Im assuming that the houses are a good distance apart. If they are 25 metres or more apart and/or if the windows are 11 metres or more from the neighbours property then I wouldnt envisage any major problem.

My advice is to get your mate to make an application for retention. It will become an issue at some time or other in the future so its best to get it regularised now.

Nameless1

muffler wrote: »

My advice is to get your mate to make an application for retention. It will become an issue at some time or other in the future so its best to get it regularised now.

Thanks muffler. Yeah I was thinking that was the best route to take. Would the chances of the L.A refusing this would be slim, provided no objections are made obviously?

muffler

Nameless1 wrote: »

Thanks muffler. Yeah I was thinking that was the best route to take. Would the chances of the L.A refusing this would be slim, provided no objections are made obviously?

The main problem is the overlooking of the adjacent neighbouring property which can result in the loss of residential amenity. But if the house/windows are a sufficient distance away I can really see it as being an issue. Sometimes where it is an issue the plain glass can be replaced with obscure glass and that is always a positive move.

Chances are the neighbour wont object anyhow but if he does he needs valid grounds. An objection however makes the planners do everything by the book so it doesnt help.

Based on past experiences the chances of a refusal would be slim alright but again every case is different but he is better getting the matter sorted out sooner rather than later.

Oh, a wee tip. Get him to take the plans etc to the neighbour (providing they are on speaking terms of course) and let him explain what he is applying for before the neighbour sees the notice on the site or in the local paper. He doesnt have to do this of course but its just being neighbourly and of course it puts that little bit of pressure on the said neighbour not to object.

savemejebus

muffler is there any resource where one could see what terms such as "loss of residential amenity" mean? and maybe what terms are useful in planning objections.

To follow up on the question i posted last week, i will definitely be objecting. The area in question is zoned commercial because of the car-park and petrol station there but the deveopers are planning a large 4 floor development which will have 2 storeys (at a 3 foot higher surface level than my house) going up 10.5 metres away from the back of my house. It will effectively block out sunlight most of the day and because i have a picture window at that end of the house (where most of my light comes from) will have a serious effect on my house. Plus they're putting in a terrace which will overlook my bedroom window (10.5 metres away).

muffler

savemejebus wrote: »

muffler is there any resource where one could see what terms such as "loss of residential amenity" mean? and maybe what terms are useful in planning objections.

To follow up on the question i posted last week, i will definitely be objecting. The area in question is zoned commercial because of the car-park and petrol station there but the deveopers are planning a large 4 floor development which will have 2 storeys (at a 3 foot higher surface level than my house) going up 10.5 metres away from the back of my house. It will effectively block out sunlight most of the day and because i have a picture window at that end of the house (where most of my light comes from) will have a serious effect on my house. Plus they're putting in a terrace which will overlook my bedroom window (10.5 metres away).

"Planning terminology" is a language of its own - well almost - much along the lines although not nearly as difficult as the grammar used by the legal profession which itself would bring a tear to the eye of someone with a degree in English language.

Im not aware of any particular source for planning terms other than the colleges and universities who run the courses on town and country planning.

Unfortunately I have a self imposed ban on myself from getting involved with objections. However in saying that I would suggest you employ a planning consultant who would offer the best advice. I can see and understand your concerns and maybe others will offer opinions here.

savemejebus

cheers for the advice muffler.

Macroom Man

savemejebus wrote: »

muffler is there any resource where one could see what terms such as "loss of residential amenity" mean? and maybe what terms are useful in planning objections.

To follow up on the question i posted last week, i will definitely be objecting. The area in question is zoned commercial because of the car-park and petrol station there but the deveopers are planning a large 4 floor development which will have 2 storeys (at a 3 foot higher surface level than my house) going up 10.5 metres away from the back of my house. It will effectively block out sunlight most of the day and because i have a picture window at that end of the house (where most of my light comes from) will have a serious effect on my house. Plus they're putting in a terrace which will overlook my bedroom window (10.5 metres away).

Look at
http://planning.fingalcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=F08B/0065&theTabNo=2&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=207144%26StartIndex=51%26SortOrder=rgndat:desc%26DispResultsAs=wphappsresweek1%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E#tabdetails

It is in Fingal but related to your problem.

savemejebus

Cheers

willywilliams

How long would a county council deem a site assessment report/trial hole test etc "current"? Would you have to do new site assessment report and tests for a second attempt at planning? Thanks.

muffler

willywilliams wrote: »

How long would a county council deem a site assessment report/trial hole test etc "current"? Would you have to do new site assessment report and tests for a second attempt at planning? Thanks.

I dont think there is a statutory time limit for these matters and Im sure it would vary from PA to the next but I would imagine that a year would be the max. in any event.

When I reapplied for full permission as the existing application had lapsed, I used the original percolation testa and they were accepted. The test results were six years old, I used the argument that there had been no changes in the surrounding lands that would influance the percolation resaults.

muffler

Could be doing with your "arguing" skills in Donegal so

'twas a one liner on the application form (after a quick phone call)... the council accepted without questions being asked.

passdump

Hi,

Does any body know if there is a legal obligation on Local Authorities to put the documents they receive with a planning application online?

I see a number of Local Authorities in Dublin (and I think Galway County Council) all have copies of the relevant planning application documents online. It is extremely helpful and democratic.

Unfortunately Kilkenny County Council, where I live, doesn't put them online and charges quite a bit for photocopies of the relevant documents. I live near an industrial development that has lodged a couple of planning applications over the past few months (and will probably lodge some more in the near future) The Council wanted to charge me €150 for one set of planning documents and €70 for the most recent application.

Is there any way I can put pressure on the Council to provide online versions of planning documents?

Thanks in advance for any help.

smashey

passdump wrote: »

Hi,

Does any body know if there is a legal obligation on Local Authorities to put the documents they receive with a planning application online?

I see a number of Local Authorities in Dublin (and I think Galway County Council) all have copies of the relevant planning application documents online. It is extremely helpful and democratic.

Unfortunately Kilkenny County Council, where I live, doesn't put them online and charges quite a bit for photocopies of the relevant documents. I live near an industrial development that has lodged a couple of planning applications over the past few months (and will probably lodge some more in the near future) The Council wanted to charge me €150 for one set of planning documents and €70 for the most recent application.

Is there any way I can put pressure on the Council to provide online versions of planning documents?

Thanks in advance for any help.

They don't have to put the documents online. They have to make them available for public inspection and if this is in their office, so be it.

muffler

Yes as smashey said they are legally obliged to make the documents available for public viewing in their offices. To put them up online is a bonus but not a legal requirement.

However most Planning Authorities have the online facility up and running and maybe you could lobby your local elected members to use their powers of persuasion to get your PA to set up a web site for this.

passdump

Yeah I considered that, except I had a talk with a guy from the EPA some time ago (before this was an issue for me). During the conversation he asked was certain planning info online and when I said it wasn't, he was very surprised. His reply stuck in my mind and It's only now with hind-sight that I feel he believed the Local Authoirty was obliged to put the documents online.(I cant get back to him I don't have his name or number)

One thing he did tell me about was the Access to Information on the Environment Directive, which does legally oblige the Local Authorities to supply certain environmental information specifically in whatever form the requester requires (i.e. digitally or on paper). I was wondering was there a similar EU Directive for access to planning information.

I am not so sure the Local Authorities that have the documents online just did it for the common good.

I am sure it cost a small fortune to set up and maintain the system to allow the documents to be put online. Also, having the documents online "robs" the Local Authorities of a source of income (relatively small maybe, but still a source of income).

Thanks for your responses, I appreciate them.

Cheers

sydthebeat

passdump wrote: »

Yeah I considered that, except I had a talk with a guy from the EPA some time ago (before this was an issue for me). During the conversation he asked was certain planning info online and when I said it wasn't, he was very surprised. His reply stuck in my mind and It's only now with hind-sight that I feel he believed the Local Authoirty was obliged to put the documents online.(I cant get back to him I don't have his name or number)

One thing he did tell me about was the Access to Information on the Environment Directive, which does legally oblige the Local Authorities to supply certain environmental information specifically in whatever form the requester requires (i.e. digitally or on paper). I was wondering was there a similar EU Directive for access to planning information.

I am not so sure the Local Authorities that have the documents online just did it for the common good.

I am sure it cost a small fortune to set up and maintain the system to allow the documents to be put online. Also, having the documents online "robs" the Local Authorities of a source of income (relatively small maybe, but still a source of income).

Thanks for your responses, I appreciate them.

Cheers

It doesnt really rob them of a source of info.....
picture it..... you go in any request a complete copy of a file..... It takes 1 council official perhaps 1/2 hr to photocopy.... so cost of time, wages, materials and machinery all have to be taken into account....

if they have a system where everything is scanned once it comes in, its available 24 / 7..... no more time taken up by council official....

Laois co Co have this system and its fantastic.... if we need info we have access to it stratight away... previous planners reports, perc test results, conditions of planning.... etc all very valuable and dont need the inevitable 1 1/2 hr it would take to go to council... wait.. photocopy.. pay... return....

Now im just waiting until they say the will accept digital submissions.....;)

passdump

I hear what your are saying, and I agree the online system is much more efficient.

However, I disagree that it doesn't rob them of any income. I was charged €70 for the last planning file I got. That was made up of about 12 A2 size plans along with a few A4 sheets. Copies of the A2 drawings cost €5 each! The girl took about 7-10mins at most to do the copying. I believe those charges are excessive and very undemocratic. I am not saying they make a fortune on the charges but they are definitly making a profit on them (which they're not supposed to, they are suppose to be "nominal" fees)

Kilkenny County Council already has quite a good website (as local authority websites go), with the basics for each planning application already online- they just don't put up the supporting documents. I definitly get the vibe that there is a definite "resistance" (for whatever the reason, possibly not the money made from photocopying) to putting the planning documents online

savemejebus

Quick question, after carefully examining both the plans for the development i've mentioned and the local area plan I wrote an objection. The thing is it's 12 pages long. Is that bad?

sydthebeat

savemejebus wrote: »

Quick question, after carefully examining both the plans for the development i've mentioned and the local area plan I wrote an objection. The thing is it's 12 pages long. Is that bad?

If its full of relevant, significant and validated points, then no....

If its full of personal and unsubstantiated opinion, then yes...

savemejebus

I'd like to think it's more the first option so I hope it'll be ok.

dfcelt

Not an issue - more of an update:
Submitted my planning application on the 20/02/08 following on from plenty of discussions on this forum. Drgs/design etc. all by myself, mods made to comply with Louth development plan (ie house to be less than 2400 sq ft) & general comments from messrs. Smashey, Muffler etc.etc. The one glaring stumbling block was that my proposal was for a 2 storey (plus 2storey garage) in an area where the dev. plan requests dormer bungalows. A quick scan of previous applications in the area on website shows that one of our neighbours applied for a 2storey about 6 months ago & was refused, resubmitted a bungalow and was successful. However, this was our dream home which has been in our heads for years so our decision was to submit proposal as is with a dormer design on 'stanby' for re-submittal.
We had basically consigned oureselves to a refusal but we would have been :mad: if we didn't give it a go. Anyway, long storey short, after an RFI for land deeds we got our registered letter in the post yesterday with PERMISSION the only word that caught my eye
I literally bounced around the walls in this place, still in shock really. Standard enough 14 conditions attached. One of which is to submit a landscape plan within a month of grant date. Under 3 months to permit with no major conditions to speak of, unbelievable.

Happy out, and 2 weeks in Lanzarote start this weekend! What a way to celebrate.
So basically, too all who are having issuees with planning I really do feel for ya but I personally think the planning department (in Louth especially) is an efficient, well run facility......although I may be looking through rose tinted glasses at the mo.

muffler

Good news indeed dfcelt. Nice to see someone happy with the planning department for a change.

Good luck with the build (and the holiers)

Mellor

savemejebus wrote: »

I'd like to think it's more the first option so I hope it'll be ok.

I'm sure its mostly relevant, but most of the objections I read have some content that it is better off without.
If you know anybody that has an idea of the planning process they might read over it and condense it.
At a guess, i'd say it could be halfed, or at least back to 8 pages.

Mellor

passdump wrote: »

I hear what your are saying, and I agree the online system is much more efficient.

However, I disagree that it doesn't rob them of any income. I was charged €70 for the last planning file I got. That was made up of about 12 A2 size plans along with a few A4 sheets. Copies of the A2 drawings cost €5 each! The girl took about 7-10mins at most to do the copying. I believe those charges are excessive and very undemocratic. I am not saying they make a fortune on the charges but they are definitly making a profit on them (which they're not supposed to, they are suppose to be "nominal" fees)

Kilkenny County Council already has quite a good website (as local authority websites go), with the basics for each planning application already online- they just don't put up the supporting documents. I definitly get the vibe that there is a definite "resistance" (for whatever the reason, possibly not the money made from photocopying) to putting the planning documents online

Do you need you own copy??
Could you not just go and have a look at the thing, then if you want some of the drawings, get them printed, you have to save some money that way.


And roll on digital prints

passdump

Mellor wrote: »

Do you need you own copy??
Could you not just go and have a look at the thing, then if you want some of the drawings, get them printed, you have to save some money that way.


And roll on digital prints

Yeah, unfortunately I do. There is a lot of detail in the plans that needs to be studied and then a submission/observation needs to be drawn up and sent in to the Council. Having gone through this before, what works best for me is to have the file in front of me as I attempt to respond to it, point by point.:(

cue

Planning finally granted! One year later. Third attempt. Lost our mortgage approval in the meantime because of change in employment :mad: Does anyone know if there is a time period after which the permission runs out?

smashey

cue wrote: »

Planning finally granted! One year later. Third attempt. Lost our mortgage approval in the meantime because of change in employment :mad: Does anyone know if there is a time period after which the permission runs out?

5 Years.

sinnerboy

smashey wrote: »

5 Years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=louXPUW7tHU