Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Schooby

asprilla7 wrote: »

my first time posting so apologies if im in wrong area.
want to look for planning permission to rennovate an old two storey stone wall house which has not been lived in for maybe 40 years(no doors, some windows blocked up, no second floor, more or less an empty shell) the house is listed as protected structure.would like to extend the house also.
would like to know what my first move should be. should i ask council what changes can be made to house or should i get architect to do up plans first to send in. also heard there is grants available to do up protected structures, is this true
all help would be greatly appreciated thanks
dom

the issue of local need may come up if the house is in a rural area, a number of county development plans now make provision for exempting uninhabited protected structures from local needs in order to bring them back into use thereby securing their future.
you could search the planning register to see if any previous applications have been made and what issues were thrown up, the register is required also to list if any section 57 declarations have been issued by the planning authority, see architectural heritage guideline on www.environ.ie to explain what this is and other help regarding your project. you should ask specifically if a S.57 has been issued on the property
check www.buildingsofireland.ie as this may give you clues as to what special features are likely to be important in any renovation, ie if its special character is due to architectural, historical or social reasons
often a planner will not be well versed in issues regarding protected structures and may give poor advise as they may be scared to make the wrong decision so be careful in any pre-planning, if there is a conservation officer in your local authority, this is the person you need to speak to.
the conservation officer will also be the person who issues the S.57 declaration, and administers the grants, you can get up to 50% of the cost of many works which are considered to contribute to the character ach year, programme your works accordingly and find out of whoever administers it in you area (should be conservation officer but all counties have one) how much pressure there is ie what are your chances of your application being successful before you bank on getting it.
you can request the S.57 and are entitled to it within 12 weeks, may be no harm getting this regardless of what else you decide, its free and will set out what is special and what is not re: the special character of the structure.

dealing with development of a protected structure can be complex and like all things in life it will be very easy to get poor advice, and good advice may be expensive, your local planning agent who has developed a thriving business in banging out one offs while the tiger roared may not be up to it but at the same time I would only pay a specialist for specialist advise not for the whole job of drawings, planning application, sign off etc etc.

spend a bit of time with the guidelines listed above from the DOE for planning authorities they are very informative.

a good challenge will always give rise to the most rewarding result.

good luck with it

metalscrubber

Planning that is !
Architect just called to say Planning application approved.
There are some conditions - not seen them yet but told nothing out of the ordinary.
So going to take a few days and start phoning builders, and the rest, then.
YAHOO

JustinF

There is other propertys built beside the site, so there is sewage and water etc, I would be looking at buying the site, and would have loved to be able to put a small log cabin on it for the moment, and down the road apply for planning for a house to be built there, at the moment there is no chance of buying subject to planning with it been an area of natural beauty.. I thought that since there is other property beside the site, maybe 5 or even 10 yrs down the road I could obtain planning, but obviously i cant afford to buy the site, and leave it sitting there for 10 yrs, if i have to pay for another house in the mean time.. so thats my dilema, don't look like there is any way around it, its certainly not my area of speciality, so was hopeing that somebody out there may have had a loop hole or even an idea that i could have looked into.

RKQ

You would need permission for a log cabin, if it had a toilet.
A log cabin is a house, with sewerage and a site entrance on a public road etc.
So even this development requires planning permission.

No6

The prescence of other houses adjacent to a site in rural areas does not mean services are necessarily available, sewerage will most likely be to septic tanks and water can sometimes be from wells rather than group schemes or LA mains.

allmywebsite

I have an problem regarding construction bcoz i m new in this field and i wan to move ahead so will anybody help me..

allmywebsite

allmywebsite wrote: »

I have an problem regarding construction bcoz i m new in this field and i wan to move ahead so will anybody help me..

Too much information!!

Ask a proper question, we may be able to help!!

smashey

allmywebsite wrote: »

I have an problem regarding construction bcoz i m new in this field and i wan to move ahead so will anybody help me..

You'll have a proble posting here in future unless you explain that.

muffler

allmywebsite wrote: »

I have an problem regarding construction bcoz i m new in this field and i wan to move ahead so will anybody help me..

I'll help you. Now what seems to be the problem?

RKQ

Looked at a 4 year old end of terrace house, in a new housing estate, 2nd phase still under construction, by same builder.
The planning permission drawings clearing show the house numbers, of each house in this block of four.

The house is for sale at the moment with RIAI certs of compliance, based on visual inspection only, dating back to original purchase.
The plans clearly show the rear kitchen extnsion on the right, beside the party wall. The back door is in the side gable, there is no utility room.

During construction the kitchen extension was built on the left side, extending from the gable, with a back door on the rear elevation. The old door ope became a window to a new utility room.

Does this house comply with planning permission or is retention required?
I don't want the new buyer to be liable for retention!
If certain "changes" are acceptable,where would I find it in the Planning Acts?

Anybody any experience of a similar situation?

archtech

RKQ wrote: »

Looked at a 4 year old end of terrace house, in a new housing estate, 2nd phase still under construction, by same builder.
The planning permission drawings clearing show the house numbers, of each house in this block of four.

The house is for sale at the moment with RIAI certs of compliance, based on visual inspection only, dating back to original purchase.
The plans clearly show the rear kitchen extnsion on the right, beside the party wall. The back door is in the side gable, there is no utility room.

During construction the kitchen extension was built on the left side, extending from the gable, with a back door on the rear elevation. The old door ope became a window to a new utility room.

Does this house comply with planning permission or is retention required?
I don't want the new buyer to be liable for retention!
If certain "changes" are acceptable,where would I find it in the Planning Acts?

Anybody any experience of a similar situation?

Once the completed works fit into "exempted development" when complete, normally in the practice I work in it is acceptable and would be signed off on, subject of course that the works are not in conflict with a planning condition. Most solicitors, we would have dealings with would be happy with that arrangement.

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

Looked at a 4 year old end of terrace house, in a new housing estate, 2nd phase still under construction, by same builder.
The planning permission drawings clearing show the house numbers, of each house in this block of four.

The house is for sale at the moment with RIAI certs of compliance, based on visual inspection only, dating back to original purchase.
The plans clearly show the rear kitchen extnsion on the right, beside the party wall. The back door is in the side gable, there is no utility room.

During construction the kitchen extension was built on the left side, extending from the gable, with a back door on the rear elevation. The old door ope became a window to a new utility room.

Does this house comply with planning permission or is retention required?
I don't want the new buyer to be liable for retention!
If certain "changes" are acceptable,where would I find it in the Planning Acts?

Anybody any experience of a similar situation?

Strictly (and legally) speaking the house has not been constructed in accordance with the plans submitted with the planning application and therefore should not be certified as being so. However if every small change to a building/house necessitated an application for retention then the number of planning applications would be doubled.

Common sense is usually the best approach in such cases. As mentioned above by archtech if the changes are not in breach of a planning condition or result in any overlooking/loss of residential amenities by adjoining/adjacent properties then I wouldn't see it as a problem bearing in mind that you are certifying that the works have been carried out in substantial compliance with the planning permission. But at the end of the day its your call and something you will have to stand over and defend should it ever become an issue at some later date.

Leaving aside the multiple developments there are very few if any one off houses or small developments of 2, 3 or 4 houses built in accordance with the plans and the PP. I have certified dozens of houses where small changes have taken place but what I do is look at it from the point of view of the house being sold again at a later date and how the next person may view these alterations.

In conclusion the word "substantial" covers a multitude of sins

Joe_L

Hi

Just wondering if anyone knew or could point me in the right direction to find out if there are regulations on how close a dual carriageway can be allowed to get to an existing house when it is "re-aligned" by the council?

I have read some treads on single carriageways in rural areas but this is in Dublin so not sure if the same rules would apply.

I am also looking for the same information if I was to put in a new plannign application on the site.

Thanks
JL

beer enigma

Hi,

awkward problem this in so far as it involves our neighbours whom we get on quite well with.

About a year ago, neighbours extended their house by adding on an upstairs extension to an existing downstairs one. The new upstairs was a wooden extension and 'overhangs' the downstairs one on our side. Didnt seem to be a problem until we started to extend our own house towards their property.

We have a very thick hedge between the two houses & its was only when we removed it that we discovered that their new roof overhangs our land by approx 8 inches. With out roof extension up, it means that there's only a gap of about 6 - 8 inches between the two roofs.

Problem is that their extension is now established & I'm worried that if we go to sell our property in a few years, its going to cause all sorts of problems.

Any thoughts ??

cheers

Andi

muffler

Joe_L wrote: »

Hi

Just wondering if anyone knew or could point me in the right direction to find out if there are regulations on how close a dual carriageway can be allowed to get to an existing house when it is "re-aligned" by the council?

I have read some treads on single carriageways in rural areas but this is in Dublin so not sure if the same rules would apply.

I am also looking for the same information if I was to put in a new plannign application on the site.

Thanks
JL

I would start by contacting the NRA (National Roads Authority) and ask for their input and comment. Then follow that up by checking the Development Plan adopted by the Council.

muffler

Andip wrote: »

Hi,

awkward problem this in so far as it involves our neighbours whom we get on quite well with.

About a year ago, neighbours extended their house by adding on an upstairs extension to an existing downstairs one. The new upstairs was a wooden extension and 'overhangs' the downstairs one on our side. Didnt seem to be a problem until we started to extend our own house towards their property.

We have a very thick hedge between the two houses & its was only when we removed it that we discovered that their new roof overhangs our land by approx 8 inches. With out roof extension up, it means that there's only a gap of about 6 - 8 inches between the two roofs.

Problem is that their extension is now established & I'm worried that if we go to sell our property in a few years, its going to cause all sorts of problems.

Any thoughts ??

cheers

Andi

Well you posted this in the right thread but had it been a stand alone thread I would have locked it but I cant lock this one and I dont want to delete your post either without a comment.

The problem you have now is that your neighbour has encroached on to your property and should you ever decide to sell then it could become an issue. The options are fairly obvious. You can discuss this with the neighbour but I doubt if they would be willing to take down part or all of their extension. You would then have to contact the local planning and building control departments to see what action they can take and depending on the outcome of that you may then have to consult your solicitor with a view to instigating legal proceedings. Really and truly the ball is in your court and while it is an awkward situation to be in it really should be sorted though.

Unfortunately our charter states that we dont allow discussions of a legal nature and that was what I was referring to in my first comment above. This has all the hallmarks of a legal issue so while I will leave the post in place I would suggest that maybe you could post your query in the legal discussion forum after this.

beer enigma

Thanks Muffler,

apologies for breaching the charter & thanks for the comment.

I'll leave it at that rather than airing this in the legal forum as it was more 'starting point' advice that I was looking for, which you greatfully provided. I'm certainly not looking to publicly chat this through as you never know who's reading & to be honest - I 'hope' that it can be sorted out without the legal boys.

thanks again.

Bash

We went to buy a site and went for pre planning on the grounds that I work in the locality and my job benefits the locality anyhow they wouldn't consider it. Now we are wondering about buying a site with fpp or opp in the same area.
My question is all of the details we have looked at have requirements for occupancy for five years by the applicant? Surely that means the sites are not saleable. Would we be back to applying for full planning and they still rejecting us because we don't need to be there for work (still very angry about that one)
Is there any point in buying a site with occupancy requirements?
How does that work?
And as an add on to my question if there is a point (i.e. my first question)If a site has full planning permission is it possible to change that house type or would we be stuck with what someone else decided they wanted?

Please help. I need to make peace with the situation and what will be will be for my own sanity.

RKQ

Full planning permission for a single house may limit the occupancy of that house to the applicant, ie the "person" that is named on the planning permission documents. Legally this site would be difficult to sell.

Full planning permission on a cluster development ( two or more houses) will have an "open" occupancy. By this I mean that the first person to live in the house will have to sign the occupancy agreement. This would suit you. The applicant is usually a developer / builder.

Full planning permission without an occupancy would suit you also, thought these are rare. You can change the house type by applying for permission to do so. You would not be limited by someone elses design. You would be wise to go for a similar house type to that granted i.e bungalow, dormer or two storey.

You could purchase a site with Outline Permission. Buy it subject to Approval.

Hope that helps. Personally IMO Occupancy Conditions can be un-necessarily restrictive and are over-used by Planners. They might be unconstitutional, as I believe every Irish citizen is entitled to live in Ireland, in a place of their choosing. Thats just my opinion.... I think this is a free country... isn't it?:)

muffler

Zizou wrote: »

Would like to find out more about an bord pleanala's use of precedents.
Basically, the terms of use, history of use?
<SNIP>
Turns out neighbour works for LC as a town planner, very suspect.. any advise:mad:

Sure. The advice is dont post up that sort of tripe here again. And do not post details of individual appeals. Read the charter please. Infraction given and just be thankful that Im in a good mood.

Get yourself a planning consultant.

dcal

Was granted permission 3 years ago and built a new house.
Thinking of applying for planning permission for a 2nd time, the site is 10 miles from my current house, beside my parents home where I grew up and in the same county.
Would I get Full planning permission on this site

muffler

dcal wrote: »

Was granted permission 3 years ago and built a new house.
Thinking of applying for planning permission for a 2nd time, the site is 10 miles from my current house, beside my parents home where I grew up and in the same county.
Would I get Full planning permission on this site

There is no way that anyone here could tell you if you can get PP or not. Thats the whole idea of making an application.

I think you may be referring to a rural housing policy so you need to contact your local planning office - look for a pre planning meeting. You could hire an architect/engineer/technician who could advise you. You could also check the rural housing policies contained in your local councils county development plan. Most of those are now available online.

scanner1

Hello All,

I have a question(mods if it in the incorrect place please move). Last year I went to a building company one that provides the whole package, Planning to build, I gave them a deposit to cover planning and if planning could not be got they would refund a small % of this. I went to the bank last year and coupled with my savings they gave me a maximum total mortgage allowed(single and own site). Now planning has been granted and I went back to the bank and they have cut 70k from my maximum. there is no way I can now build the house with the current spec at that mortgage, I have signed no contract and the only way I can build is by direct labour. Will there be issues with the builder?

Cheers.:o:o

sydthebeat

scanner1 wrote: »

Hello All,

I have a question(mods if it in the incorrect place please move). Last year I went to a building company one that provides the whole package, Planning to build, I gave them a deposit to cover planning and if planning could not be got they would refund a small % of this. I went to the bank last year and coupled with my savings they gave me a maximum total mortgage allowed(single and own site). Now planning has been granted and I went back to the bank and they have cut 70k from my maximum. there is no way I can now build the house with the current spec at that mortgage, I have signed no contract and the only way I can build is by direct labour. Will there be issues with the builder?

Cheers.:o:o

did you ask the builder?
Can they change the spec or design to accomodate your mortgage??

Do you think you will honestly save 70K building direct labour??

http://www.homebuilder.ie/pitfalls_of_direct_labour/index.htm

griff07

Hello all and apologies if similar has been posted before and for the long windedness of it!!
My siblings and I are trying to sell our deceased parents home. Not easy!!
After probate etc.. (no wills) which took 18 months we finally got a buyer who then pulled out when it was discovered my father had renovated the original property without correct planning permission 30 years ago
Long story short:
Got an engineer/arcitecht to draw up retention plans-gave us a bill of 5 and 1/2K!!
Then got refused by KCC on the grounds of Line of sight difficulties and a problem with what our property did with rain water which came off the roadway.
Went back to engineer who advised line of sight difficulties (requires 80 mt sight each way coming out of driveway)could be solved by asking neighbour to cut hedges-did tHis and council not happy. He then drew up new plans for the driveway (for which a charge will follow) which have now been refused again!! Also he answered further quesitons on road rain water drainage whih they are still not satisfied with.

My questions to those in the know are:
Line of Sight
Council keep telling us its NRA requirments but we cant understand as retention was for modifications to house (which council are happy with) Driveway and front wall have been as iit is since the property was built 100 years ago by CIE (old railway cottage).Can they really do this given the lenght of tiime it is there? What do people with older properties do?
Their proposal is signage for roadway-concealed entrance (no prob with this) and dangerous junction(surely NRA's issue). This will be approx5k for them to do and they are sending us plans/bil. Surely this does not sound right??
Also we have had to make all the calls here-engineer has been useless.

How our property deals with rain water from roadway?
We ended up getting involved with council and amswering rain water issues which they are now happy with-engineer has been of no help here.
He gave them incorrect info about our soak holes to begin with!
This is now solved but again-what do you think I should do about engineer?

Sorry for the long post and I hope someone is interested and can help.

muffler

griff07 wrote: »

Hello all and apologies if similar has been posted before and for the long windedness of it!!
My siblings and I are trying to sell our deceased parents home. Not easy!!
After probate etc.. (no wills) which took 18 months we finally got a buyer who then pulled out when it was discovered my father had renovated the original property without correct planning permission 30 years ago
Long story short:
Got an engineer/arcitecht to draw up retention plans-gave us a bill of 5 and 1/2K!!
Then got refused by KCC on the grounds of Line of sight difficulties and a problem with what our property did with rain water which came off the roadway.
Went back to engineer who advised line of sight difficulties (requires 80 mt sight each way coming out of driveway)could be solved by asking neighbour to cut hedges-did tHis and council not happy. He then drew up new plans for the driveway (for which a charge will follow) which have now been refused again!! Also he answered further quesitons on road rain water drainage whih they are still not satisfied with.

My questions to those in the know are:
Line of Sight
Council keep telling us its NRA requirments but we cant understand as retention was for modifications to house (which council are happy with) Driveway and front wall have been as iit is since the property was built 100 years ago by CIE (old railway cottage).Can they really do this given the lenght of tiime it is there? What do people with older properties do?
Their proposal is signage for roadway-concealed entrance (no prob with this) and dangerous junction(surely NRA's issue). This will be approx5k for them to do and they are sending us plans/bil. Surely this does not sound right??
Also we have had to make all the calls here-engineer has been useless.

How our property deals with rain water from roadway?
We ended up getting involved with council and amswering rain water issues which they are now happy with-engineer has been of no help here.
He gave them incorrect info about our soak holes to begin with!
This is now solved but again-what do you think I should do about engineer?

Sorry for the long post and I hope someone is interested and can help.

The fact that the council/NRA have indicated that signs should be erected is surely an admission that the entrance has been there for such a period of time that it it is now outside of their control. If as you say that it has been there for 100 years then I think you need to talk to your solicitor about this as it is a legal issue.

Regarding the engineer - well we cant really tell you what to do other than ask him for a detailed breakdown of his fees and try negotiating a reduction.

NickTellis

Have an application in with planners and am waiting on a decision in the next month or so. Had a quick look at my applicaiton on their website and notice that there's now a Pre Planners Report up. A couple of points in the report:

Landscape Sensitivity: Class 3

Aquifer Category: (Rkc) regionally important, conduit karst aquifer, development potential limited. Vunerability rating: Extreme

What do these mean? I know the aquifer thing has something to do with water tables and quality of drinking water (or something) but am I going to have trouble justifying my new extension as a result?

I can send on the link to the application if needed.

brundle

Exempt development

I want to build a domestic shed to the rear of my property. I think I can build 25 sq.m. with a flat roof height of 3m or pitched roof of 4m.
It is a detached house in a town. Are there any further restrictions. Do I have to maintain a certain green area on the property and can I build close to the boundaries without applying for planning, somebody mentioned that I would be better 3m from the boundary?

sydthebeat

brundle wrote: »

Exempt development

I want to build a domestic shed to the rear of my property. I think I can build 25 sq.m. with a flat roof height of 3m or pitched roof of 4m.
It is a detached house in a town. Are there any further restrictions. Do I have to maintain a certain green area on the property and can I build close to the boundaries without applying for planning, somebody mentioned that I would be better 3m from the boundary?

1. No such structure shall be constructed,
erected or placed forward of the front
wall of a house.
2. The total area of such structures
constructed, erected or placed within the
curtilage of a house shall not, taken
together with any other such structures
previously constructed, erected or placed
within the said curtilage, exceed 25
square metres.
3. The construction, erection or
placing within the curtilage of a house of
any such structure shall not reduce the
amount of private open space reserved
exclusively for the use of the occupants
of the house to the rear or to the side of
the house to less than 25 square metres.
4. The external finishes of any garage or
other structure constructed, erected or
placed to the side of a house, and the roof
covering where any such structure has a
tiled or slated roof, shall conform with
those of the house.
157
5. The height of any such structure shall
not exceed, in the case of a building with
a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or,
in any other case, 3 metres.
6. The structure shall not be used for
human habitation or for the keeping of
pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses,
or for any other purpose other than a
purpose incidental to the enjoyment of
the house as such.

brundle

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. No such structure shall be constructed,
erected or placed forward of the front
wall of a house.
2. The total area of such structures
constructed, erected or placed within the
curtilage of a house shall not, taken
together with any other such structures
previously constructed, erected or placed
within the said curtilage, exceed 25
square metres.
3. The construction, erection or
placing within the curtilage of a house of
any such structure shall not reduce the
amount of private open space reserved
exclusively for the use of the occupants
of the house to the rear or to the side of
the house to less than 25 square metres.
4. The external finishes of any garage or
other structure constructed, erected or
placed to the side of a house, and the roof
covering where any such structure has a
tiled or slated roof, shall conform with
those of the house.
157
5. The height of any such structure shall
not exceed, in the case of a building with
a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or,
in any other case, 3 metres.
6. The structure shall not be used for
human habitation or for the keeping of
pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses,
or for any other purpose other than a
purpose incidental to the enjoyment of
the house as such.

I was just talking to mate who was talking about 3m from boundary. He said that its a fire reg related to wiindows? Is this bull**** or is he confused? He is a small builder but no expert in planning.