Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

sydthebeat

brundle wrote: »

I was just talking to mate who was talking about 3m from boundary. He said that its a fire reg related to wiindows? Is this bull**** or is he confused? He is a small builder but no expert in planning.

He is referring to separating distances required under the fire regulations but these do not apply to domestic sheds, they only apply to non-dwelling developments as part of a fire safety certificate application.

Theres no restriction in your case.

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

He is referring to separating distances required under the fire regulations but these do not apply to domestic sheds, they only apply to non-dwelling developments as part of a fire safety certificate application.

Theres no restriction in your case.

Agreed.

From a practical point of view you would be better keeping about 600mm from the boundary. If you are using a strip foundation then there is no danger of it being in your neighbours property. It will also allow for plastering and painting and roof overhang/guttering etc. together with future maintenance being carried out from within the boundaries of your own property

vecman

Hello
this is my first time posting, but I've learned a lot from this forum. I'd like some adivce. Buying a single storey land comission cottage, 700 sq ft hip roof on 1.25 ac. Want to build passive extension (2000 Sq ft 1.5 storey). At the pre planning we were told the extension has to be more integrated, but thats very hard when you're building to passive stardards. We had a model showing a link corrider. Planner suggessted replacement, that will cause problems with the bank as we only ever spoke to them about a renovation and extension so we'd have to have a new mortage offer, valuation etc, took them long enought to organise the first offer. There's a bend on the road so I doubt we'd get the sight lines, even though its on a minor road. To cap it all we can't do the percolation test till we own it outright and the guy doing the test thinks it may be a problem. Is it as bad as I think or does anyone have a suggestion. We realy like the passive concept. thank you

muffler

vecman wrote: »

Hello
this is my first time posting, but I've learned a lot from this forum. I'd like some adivce. Buying a single storey land comission cottage, 700 sq ft hip roof on 1.25 ac. Want to build passive extension (2000 Sq ft 1.5 storey). At the pre planning we were told the extension has to be more integrated, but thats very hard when you're building to passive stardards. We had a model showing a link corrider. Planner suggessted replacement, that will cause problems with the bank as we only ever spoke to them about a renovation and extension so we'd have to have a new mortage offer, valuation etc, took them long enought to organise the first offer. There's a bend on the road so I doubt we'd get the sight lines, even though its on a minor road. To cap it all we can't do the percolation test till we own it outright and the guy doing the test thinks it may be a problem. Is it as bad as I think or does anyone have a suggestion. We realy like the passive concept. thank you

If the planner has recommended a replacement then I'd be inclined to listen to that unless you want a battle on your hands. Given the size of the extension you propose it would seem like good advice to me from a planning point of view.

Id suggest you concentrate first of all on getting the planning sorted and then worry about the passiveness or otherwise of the house. If you havent got planning permission then you do have additional problems.

RKQ

2000 sqft sounds abit much at almost 3 times the area of the existing house. I agree with above but be careful as a new house will need to comply fully with current Planning and Building regulations especially Roads and Envirnoment. (Sight-lines and treatment system)

A smaller extension to an existing house might have a better chance of planning, as the house exists and will be exempt from certain regulations / laws as it was built prior to that law / regulation.

Is it possible to extend in a sympathic way, maybe scale back alittle and extend again as family / needs grow.

Don't fall out with the Planner... its not worth it.

Newgirl

Hello

I understand that you need PP to demolish a habitable dwelling. However if you're planing to renovate and extend, how much of the original can you demolish to facilitate the renovation and extension work. I'd like to keep the original floor plan but there's no dpc or insulation...... what are my options.all advice appreciated thanks

RKQ

In simple terms IMO there is no demolition involved in building an extension.
There is no demolition involved in renovating.

Removing roof, walls and floor to dpc or dpm level is demolition not renovation and requires full PP.

Just because you plan to rebuild a "new" house on the exact line of the old house, you can not claim this is renovation.
Renovation is to renew, repair and replace elements ( windows, doors, slates, rotten timbers, etc)

Note that permission may be more relaxed for an extension to an existing dwelling which, due to its age, may be exempt from the Building Regs & Planning Law.

No6

RKQ wrote: »

In simple terms IMO there is no demolition involved in building an extension.
There is no demolition involved in renovating.

Removing roof, walls and floor to dpc or dpm level is demolition not renovation and requires full PP.

Just because you plan to rebuild a "new" house on the exact line of the old house, you can not claim this is renovation.
Renovation is to renew, repair and replace elements ( windows, doors, slates, rotten timbers, etc)

Note that permission may be more relaxed for an extension to an existing dwelling which, due to its age, may be exempt from the Building Regs & Planning Law.

RKQ you'll probably shoot me but if you replace an old roof its renovation, therefore you can replace a roof, if you do an exempt extension to the rear of your dwellling you can carry out some demolition to connect it to the existing building including the new roof so really if you retain the front and side walls and knock a few holes in the back one build an exempt extension can you not justifibly claim it is a renovation and exempt extension project!! If the hole in the back wall is big enough you can also dig out the old floor anbd put in new one with insulation & DPM / radon barriers!! However having siad all that if the house is old enough or derlict you'll probably need planning for a septic tank anyway so just apply for the whole lot planners are generally more sympathetic towards refurb / extending of existing than new one off houses.

RKQ

Not at all No.6

You make a good point and we can all "stretch" the envelope but I got the impression that the OP wanted to build a new house on the exact footprint of an existing house, while demolishing the existing but qualifing it as "Refurbishment" (Sorry OP if I misunderstood)

I did say the above was my opinion, as a rule of thumb etc.
Naturally there are grey areas and totally replacing a roof is refurbishment as long as you don't demolish all the walls and remove all the floors! Also replace roof at same ridge height etc.

Building an extension does not normally involve the 100% replacement of the existing dwelling, or digging new foundations for the existing walls.

I do remember a house that was extended and refurbished but the Planner insisted in the front & side wall being retain to window cill height and the existing floor was retained. (This house was quite close to the road and might have been better to demolish and rebuild further back.)

To answer the OP, if the walls are 300mm cavity construction then they can be insulated by pumping insulation into the cavity. Hollow 225mm blockwork can be drylined. If it is stone then it can be dry lined and a chemical dpc could be installed in the lime mortar, with an external perimeter french drain.

Of course if this house is really old (stone) it may be protected! If it is then nothing can be demolished.

It really depends on the house and its construction type. Its worth arranging a pre-planning meeting to discuss same.

No6

Indeed RKQ how about the op hiring a professional to look at it first, every job is different.

Retro-Fit

Vecman
You can 'maintain' the property, dismantle the defective walls and rebuild in the same character. However as all legislation is subject to case law and judgement, you might go all the way to the high court to argue that point.
Might be handier just to apply for planning.

P+D 2000 Act Schedule 2, Exempted dev 4 (1)
(h) development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures;

In design terms, an extension should be subservient to the primary building, a good way to do this is to separate it from the main building and give it the form of an agricultural building, instance the farmhouse and barrel roofed barn style that was popular in the 90's. This gives a good opertunity for a courtyard, a meditive and functional space.

see lough derg land commission cottage
Agree with previous poster that you don't need all that space, a sensible space planning approach and clever use of circulation spaces might be preferable. Planner shouldn't really be asking you to alter the design, but it does appear they have a problem with the design. Back to the drawing board. Have you an Architect/ Technologist?

vecman

Thanks for your replies they're very informative.I love the lough derg cottage, thanks for that. To fill in some gaps the house is a single storey hip roof land commission cottage built circa 1939, on 1.25 acres. Poured concrete walls, do dpc, single glazed windows, damp coming up through floor exactly what you'd expect for a building that age. We picked it cos the location is right and the orientation allows for a passive extension ie one that allows lots of sth facing windows. So far we've had a builder look at it and an engineer and a co councillor friend from the neighbouring county. The builder was for knocking it. At the pre planning the planner said we could apply for replacement dwelling subject to good design, sight lines and soil suitability test. This confused us cos all along we'd thought of it as a renovation and extension project. Do the extension first and when we're living there do the renovation. The timber frame company we're thinking of using suggested doing both jobs together but money (or lack of it) will dictate that. As for the size I'd be well happy with 2000 in total. Cos the site lines aren't great I don't see the point in looking for replacement but the other half is leaning that way. When the planner looked at our model she said 2 storey is out, redesign as a 1 1/2 and we're fine with that, also she felt our design wasn't integrated enough with the original but as we want the new building to be passive standard you wouldn't join it up to the original building. As another poster said get the planning thorough and worry about the energy ratings later. We in meath if that makes any difference and the road is a CR road. Thanks again your comments are really helpful, we're so confused, we know where we want to go but how to get there aaaaaaagh .

steviemac

Hi guys,only new to this forum.
I have a problem i hope you can help with.Just got a extension built.It comes out about 6ft.past my neighbours one. The problem is ,there is a boundary wall between us ,the builder has lead flashing coming from our building onto the boundary wall to stop any rain from getting between them.My neighbour bent the flashing back off the wall against my building ,so the rain could get between them.So i nailed it down to stop them doing it again.
Two day later i got a Solicitors letter tell me to fix the problem and get the flashing off (their )wall.or go to court.

muffler

steviemac wrote: »

Hi guys,only new to this forum.
I have a problem i hope you can help with.Just got a extension built.It comes out about 6ft.past my neighbours one. The problem is ,there is a boundary wall between us ,the builder has lead flashing coming from our building onto the boundary wall to stop any rain from getting between them.My neighbour bent the flashing back off the wall against my building ,so the rain could get between them.So i nailed it down to stop them doing it again.
Two day later i got a Solicitors letter tell me to fix the problem and get the flashing off (their )wall.or go to court.

Sorry but we wont be able to help you as you are now in a legal situation and we dont do legalities here. I was going to suggest posting in the legal discussion forum but the guys there wouldnt entertain it either given the circumstances.

Only advice from here is the obvious - see a solicitor and be guided by him.

I will leave the above post but I dont want to see any further discussion on this matter.

Villain

steviemac, you need to go see a solictor end of story, no-one here can help you

Supertech

Once you've gotten a solicitor's letter it's not a construction problem - it's a legal one. You need to talk to your solicitor.

conor2949

Hi all,

Its been a while since I have posted on here.

After much revisions to my original house plans, I have finally being granted planning permission.

It was a drawn out debacle (unnecessarily drawnout on the council’s side IMHO).

Call me hugely cynical if you like, but i have a sneaking suspicion that the planning process debacle is why I have been lumbered with what i would consider to be excessively onerous planning conditions (not seen on other developments in the area)

The most stringent of the lot being:

1) Wastewater treatment plant
I must obtain a 1 yr maintenance contract and notify the council of any changes in the maintenance provider
I must get a cert of compliance issued to the council confirming correct installation and operation of the system before i can occupy the house
The council must give their written approval before i can occupy the house.

2) Council wants a cert of compliance stating that the finished floor level is as per the site layout on completion of excavation

3) Council wants me to maintain a clear cavity gap of at least 50mm in pursuit of good building practice (there goes my notions of block on the flat with external insulation)

4) I have to submit a landscaping plan which was never mentioned before – normally its done as a further info request

5) A cert of compliance with the landscaping plan has to issued on completion of the planting

6) Even though the site is in a “structurally weak area” i still have to enter into a seven year agreement to occupy the house myself

7) The councils written approval has got to be obtained for:
The relocation of any utility poles on the site/road boundary
The occupation of the dwelling
The landscaping plan

And then the thiefs want me to contribute EUR5k for development levies to facilitate the development! Presumably this is for a public water supply i don’t have, a public sewage system i don’t have access to and an inadequately surfaced and drained road.

Now that the easy bit is over with i must get on with all the decisions to what to use on the build.

For those who are embroiled in the planning process – stick with it. The planners are people who have alot of power in their hands and who can very easily hide behind the shambles of the over-bureaucratic civil “service”. They are answerable to nobody.


Nevertheless, I am going to get on with building the house that i fought so hard for. I’m going to enjoy my house and make it a home.

Best of luck
Conor

Slig

some of them sound fairly strict alright. But if you ask any of the professionals here, they will tell you they arent the worst.
The system may be flawed but its the only one we have, there are bad eggs in every industry.
Best of luck with the build and keep us up to date with how things go

smasher123

My original application for house and garage was refused. On second application with new plans we were successful and formal permission was granted for house plus garage. The only snag was that the second plans had no garage on them.

I assume I have to resubmit a new layout to the LA with the garage in despite that fact that grant of permission says I have planning for a garage! Anyone come accross this before? Might be a good thing anyway to re-submit as we want to change one of the bay windows to incorporate a patio door.

Check with the council, they may consider the garage "exempted development".

muffler

smasher123 wrote: »

My original application for house and garage was refused. On second application with new plans we were successful and formal permission was granted for house plus garage. The only snag was that the second plans had no garage on them.

I assume I have to resubmit a new layout to the LA with the garage in despite that fact that grant of permission says I have planning for a garage! Anyone come accross this before? Might be a good thing anyway to re-submit as we want to change one of the bay windows to incorporate a patio door.

It is a typo and your garage will not have permission. Please also note that the garage can only be considered as being exempt providing its built after the house has been constructed - thats the official version anyhow.

Ring the planner who dealt with your application and they will advise you as to how to sort this.

HobNob

Hi,
I've just joined Boards.ie but I've been viewing fro the last few weeks.

Recently applied to Limerick county council for planning permission.
but they have come back looking for further info, a couple of small
issues re moving eircom poles etc. but they also want the HSE to
re-test the percolation. Has anyone experience of this ?

The site just passed when tested in may in dry weather.
There's no way it would pass now with the summer we've just had.

any advice ?

Should I wait for a dry spell and then test or just look for another site ?

RKQ

HobNob wrote: »

Hi,
they also want the HSE to
re-test the percolation. Has anyone experience of this ?

The site just passed when tested in may in dry weather.
There's no way it would pass now with the summer we've just had.

Should I wait for a dry spell and then test or just look for another site ?

Do the re-test as required.. ( fingers crossed it will all work out)

IMO there's no point in living on a site with very poor percolation.
The EPA Guidelines are there to protect your health and the health of your neighbours. The guidelines are there for a reason, they are not their to "upset" your plans, or make life difficult.

If it complies fine, if it doesn't then move on and get a good site.:)

creeshy

I've recently applied for planning permission and was asked for evidence that i never claimed mortgage relief. Has anyone ever heard of this.

smashey

creeshy wrote: »

I've recently applied for planning permission and was asked for evidence that i never claimed mortgage relief. Has anyone ever heard of this.

Did the planners ask this?

RKQ

creeshy wrote: »

I've recently applied for planning permission and was asked for evidence that i never claimed mortgage relief. Has anyone ever heard of this.

Its an unusual request in my part of the world.
Sounds like you have claimed to be renting, living with parents or a first time buyer, on the Supplementary Information Form, and the L.A. want proof of this.
Or
the L.A may suspect you own a house and want to keep the area for local people who are first time buyers only. ( Not people who will profit from the sle of a house, build again, sell again etc)

Seems unfair and a hard request to prove. IMO Planners can be very inventive when it comes to Further Information requests. But if they have asked for it then you will have to supply it.

Best of luck!

muffler

creeshy wrote: »

I've recently applied for planning permission and was asked for evidence that i never claimed mortgage relief. Has anyone ever heard of this.

I recall that being sought when people were looking for their new house grants in the good old days but I have never experienced this in the planning process.

As was mentioned it probably has to do with claiming its your first house. Even if you are genuinely looking for permission to build your first house would you be happy for this info to be posted up for the public to view?

There are other things that your PA may accept rather than this. Discuss it with them or with your architect.

creeshy

Yeah its the planning that are requesting this, its my fathers land. I have asked a solicitor and a accountant about this but they were'nt very helpfull. Is there a form to prove this.

muffler

creeshy wrote: »

Yeah its the planning that are requesting this, its my fathers land. I have asked a solicitor and a accountant about this but they were'nt very helpfull. Is there a form to prove this.

There used to be a form for grant purposes but thats a few years ago but the content wold have sufficed in your case.

If you are happy enough to do so then drop a note to your local tax office and ask them to give you a statement that you never claimed tax relief on a mortgage that you obtained to build a house. Im sure they will oblige.

Personally I wouldn't be happy with this information being made available to the public as it would contain your tax no. and I dont believe that private info like this should be held on a file that is open to public inspection and most likely available for viewing on the internet.

casey1970

i know someone that is going to build an extension on to their parents house, when i say extension i mean "two storey four bedroom", they have no planning permission, how do i go about getting it stopped?