Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

Villain

Not sure of any in that area, ask around I'm sure a few people will tell you who is useful.

rob308

thanks for the info. hopefully it will work out for me

fishfoodie

Folks,

I'm hoping to do a self-build & get planning permission thru the proximity to workplace clauses, in the County Development Plans.

My question is although my workplace is in one county, the 5 mile radius around it passes thru 2 other counties. So does the "Local Needs" ( God I hate the phrase ), apply to the one county, or to all 3 ?

I've had a look thru the County Development plan sections & it isn't clear what the story is.

Anyone have any experience ?

muffler

fishfoodie wrote: »

Folks,

I'm hoping to do a self-build & get planning permission thru the proximity to workplace clauses, in the County Development Plans.

My question is although my workplace is in one county, the 5 mile radius around it passes thru 2 other counties. So does the "Local Needs" ( God I hate the phrase ), apply to the one county, or to all 3 ?

I've had a look thru the County Development plan sections & it isn't clear what the story is.

Anyone have any experience ?

Im not 100% sure but I would imagine that the county boundary isn't taken into account (other than Donegal Co. Co. where living in Derry & Tyrone will disbar you :eek:)

Ask one of the local councilors.

fishfoodie

I hope your not using Common sense or Logic there to Muffler, as we both no that neither of those is ever involved in an planning process in Ireland :D

I'll give the planning office a bell tomorrow & see what I find out.

muffler

fishfoodie wrote: »

I hope your not using Common sense or Logic there to Muffler, as we both no that neither of those is ever involved in an planning process in Ireland :D

At least they're consistent in that regard no matter what county you are in

Essexboy

Anyone know how easy it is to get retention in Sligo?
English-based builder is putting up a bungalow without planning permission behind his new house despite a warning letter from the County Council.
Popular opinion is that once the house is completed he will be granted retention.
is this cynical or realistic?

RKQ

If you believe your neighbour is building a dwelling without planning permission, then you should write to Planning Enforcement, Planning Department, Sligo County Council, immediately.

Once they receive a complaint in writing they will investigate same and issue a Warning Letter, if appropiate. This letter will require all works on site to cease immediately.

muffler

Essexboy wrote: »

Anyone know how easy it is to get retention in Sligo?
English-based builder is putting up a bungalow without planning permission behind his new house despite a warning letter from the County Council.
Popular opinion is that once the house is completed he will be granted retention.
is this cynical or realistic?

If he has received a warning letter than that is the beginning of enforcement proceedings and therefore we cant discuss the matter here because of the legal implications.

No more posts please in relation to this matter.

Essexboy

muffler wrote: »

If he has received a warning letter than that is the beginning of enforcement proceedings and therefore we cant discuss the matter here because of the legal implications.

No more posts please in relation to this matter.

Thanks, and I don't want to get involved in any legal matters, either!

MunsterM

Hello,

have submitted an application for FPP on land owned by my father. I have received a request for further info asking for copies of the land registry map and title deeds of the entire landholding.
Land is in Co cork

Is this usual ?

Thanks,

M

RKQ

Can't say about Cork.
It used to be very popular in Wexford as it proved land ownership and could be used to get the landowner to "sterilise" a portion of land - i.e agree legally not to sell any more sites on this land for 5 or 7 years.

It caused some problems in Wexford and is rarely used now. Instead Wexford now usually requires a 5 year occupancy agreement with the first occupier.

muffler

MunsterM wrote: »

Hello,

have submitted an application for FPP on land owned by my father. I have received a request for further info asking for copies of the land registry map and title deeds of the entire landholding.
Land is in Co cork

Is this usual ?

Thanks,

M

Yes it would be normal enough for the Planning Authority to request this to back up the claim that the applicant is proposing to build on family lands. It also allows them to see if PP was ever applied for on any other part of the overall landholding.

MunsterM

Thanks for the replies muffler and RKQ.

john bonn

I am an Architectural Technician. I recently met with a potential client. He wants planning permission for 2No sites. 1 will be for his son and he wants to put the other for sale.

My advise to him was, achieving planning for his son was ok, however it would be against council policy to grant permission for a site for sale. He is located in an area under major pressure and close to the major town of the county.

He must think I do not have a clue about planning becuase he informed me his neighbour across the road got planning last year for 4 sites and all for sale. I did not believe him.

I have since done my research and the land owner who got permission for the 4 sites for sale actually works for the council. Upon viewing the planners report, it was recommend to refuse, therefore either the senior planner or director of planning who signed off, did this man a favour and was totally against the policy in the county Development Plan and The Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines.

Has anybody got any advise in what I should do in these circumstances.

sydthebeat

john bonn wrote: »

I am an Architectural Technician. I recently met with a potential client. He wants planning permission for 2No sites. 1 will be for his son and he wants to put the other for sale.

My advise to him was, achieving planning for his son was ok, however it would be against council policy to grant permission for a site for sale. He is located in an area under major pressure and close to the major town of the county.

He must think I do not have a clue about planning becuase he informed me his neighbour across the road got planning last year for 4 sites and all for sale. I did not believe him.

I have since done my research and the land owner who got permission for the 4 sites for sale actually works for the council. Upon viewing the planners report, it was recommend to refuse, therefore either the senior planner or director of planning who signed off, did this man a favour and was totally against the policy in the county Development Plan and The Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines.

Has anybody got any advise in what I should do in these circumstances.

Pre-planning meeting...... let him hear it from the horses mouth, so to speak...

If he still wants to apply for a site for sale then great, charge him enough...

Precedent is only an argument when its in favour of the council..... otherwise its viewed as a mistake not to be repeated!!!

muffler

john bonn wrote: »

I am an Architectural Technician. I recently met with a potential client. He wants planning permission for 2No sites. 1 will be for his son and he wants to put the other for sale.

My advise to him was, achieving planning for his son was ok, however it would be against council policy to grant permission for a site for sale. He is located in an area under major pressure and close to the major town of the county.

He must think I do not have a clue about planning becuase he informed me his neighbour across the road got planning last year for 4 sites and all for sale. I did not believe him.

I have since done my research and the land owner who got permission for the 4 sites for sale actually works for the council. Upon viewing the planners report, it was recommend to refuse, therefore either the senior planner or director of planning who signed off, did this man a favour and was totally against the policy in the county Development Plan and The Sustainable Rural Housing Guidelines.

Has anybody got any advise in what I should do in these circumstances.

Its fairly simple. You tell him the same as you posted here and let him then make the choice. Its his prerogative to ask a local politician to make representations to the PA on his behalf.

Just a word of caution to everyone here. Please read the charter especially in relation to discussing the flaunting of the planning laws.

john bonn you may also be interested in the Arch Tech sub forum

Retro-Fit

What should you do?

Send him across the road with a bottle of Whiskey.

Or, Is it is a moral and ethical question where you feel you can not be any part of a planning and development system which will have devastating consequences on our children's future? Where you need the fees but cannot countenance another septic tank with the outfall pipe going straight to the drain, another sub standard treatment system allowing people to defecate into our drinking water. Another visually incongruous energy wasting piece of suburbia parked in a field beside a National road, with kids imprisoned behind the front fence as boy racers whiz by at 80 mph. If this is the question and the dilema you face, then a solution would be to apply for a new house in the farm building cluster, provided that the son worked the farm and that their were no unoccupied buildings that could be restored.

john bonn

Thanks for the response.

I see where the points are coming from. I have been thinking along those lines. But can anything be done about the Council employees who are abusing the system.

It is always the people on the outside the council will blame, when say the media do an article in the paper on planning, you know the bull, somebody from planning will state something along the following lines agents not attending pre-planning meetings, percolation not carried out correctly.

I think these planners have to be accountable. This file is open to the public, it is not like the planning department can hide the information. Somebody internal within the council abused their postion, therefore i believe answers are necessary from the council to explain the situation.

muffler

john bonn wrote: »

Thanks for the response.

I see where the points are coming from. I have been thinking along those lines. But can anything be done about the Council employees who are abusing the system.

It is always the people on the outside the council will blame, when say the media do an article in the paper on planning, you know the bull, somebody from planning will state something along the following lines agents not attending pre-planning meetings, percolation not carried out correctly.

I think these planners have to be accountable. This file is open to the public, it is not like the planning department can hide the information. Somebody internal within the council abused their postion, therefore i believe answers are necessary from the council to explain the situation.

Not being flippant but shit happens as they say. It happens in every county in Ireland Im sure but this not what this forum is all about.

I thought you came to this forum looking for advice on how to deal with a client and a predicament you were in but instead you seem to want to go on a rant. I asked you and others to read the charter which states that there is to be no discussion on the flaunting of the planning laws. That also includes discussion on people who may be perceived to be flaunting the laws. If you have difficulties with particular planning decisions then you should seek legal opinion and just to advise we dont entertain legal discussion of any type here either.

End of lesson.

Newgirl

Newgirl wrote: »

Hello

we have a 1.25 acre site with a single storey cottage 800sq ft, with private well and septic tank. We're going to apply to Meath CoCo for replacement dwelling (4 bed 2000sq ft). We're not holding out much hope for the soil suitability test so I'm wondering what are our options considering there's an existing septic tank.
Please don't say get another site we've already bought and owner wouldn't allow us to do the test. We're an environmentally friendly family so all options would be of interest to us.
thanks in advance, I'm worried.

the results of my soil test were T test in excess of 50 maybe as high as 100. P test = 40. Tester recommending the puraflow system with polishing filter etc and we bring in a load of soil. The report seemed fine no alarm bells while reading it but then I'm a lay person. your comments appreciated

darr2008

Hi
We want to build a self contained flat for the mother in-law out our back garden as she will need looking after.

Will we need planning permission?
Thanks

smashey

darr2008 wrote: »

Hi
We want to build a self contained flat for the mother in-law out our back garden as she will need looking after.

Will we need planning permission?
Thanks

Yes.

muffler

And its a big YES from me also. :pac:

RKQ

Yes you require full planning permission, The planning fee is the same as a new house, €65.

Should clearly comply with Document M.
A one bedroom "Granny flat" attached to the existing dwelling can be straightforward. However a two bedroom detached unit can be difficult.

The rear garden must maintain at least 25sqm open space

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

The rear garden must maintain at least 25sqm open space

That would apply to exempted developments unless there is a requirement in the PA's development plan for a min. area to retained as a rear garden.

For example Donegal Coco require all new housing units to have a rear garden of 65m2 min.

sydthebeat

muffler wrote: »

That would apply to exempted developments unless there is a requirement in the PA's development plan for a min. area to retained as a rear garden.

For example Donegal Coco require all new housing units to have a rear garden of 65m2 min.

strange one....

Is there a facility in planning law to allow a Development plan to supercede planning regulations???? i havent heard of any....

how can they enforce this and has it ever been challanged??

how can they enforce it on dwellings that were constructed prior to the current development plan???

im not saying i disgree with the principle, but i would severly question the legal standing of such policies....

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

strange one....

Is there a facility in planning law to allow a Development plan to supercede planning regulations???? i havent heard of any....

how can they enforce this and has it ever been challanged??

how can they enforce it on dwellings that were constructed prior to the current development plan???

im not saying i disgree with the principle, but i would severly question the legal standing of such policies....

It would come under the terms of the county and local area plans and the provision of such plans is enshrined in the planning regs.

I suppose a simpler way of putting it would be to compare it with say the local needs issue or the design elements that each PA require.

Edit: The requirements would apply to all planning applications for new houses after the development plan is in force and wouldnt be retrospectively applied to developments granted permission under older development plans

sydthebeat

muffler wrote: »

It would come under the terms of the county and local area plans and the provision of such plans is enshrined in the planning regs.

I suppose a simpler way of putting it would be to compare it with say the local needs issue or the design elements that each PA require.

does this apply to someone building an extension to the rear of their dwelling???

say a standard extension of 28 on GF and 12 on FF.....

if their rear garden space was reduced to less than 65m2... can it still be consider exempt??

RKQ

The rear garden must maintain at least 25sqm open space

This is one of those standard rules, that Planners are reluctant to ignore or dispensate. Planners in my LA, are usually young and inexperienced and fearful of controversy so its rare for them to ignore this 25sqm rule. I only seen it ignored in an Urban Renewel Scheme and that Planner had guts, maybe thats why ABP called her.

Yes, I agree it applies mainly to exempted development, but try building a new house in your back garden which will mean neither house will have enough space for a bin or clothes-line and you'll find you'll meet severe difficulty and opposition in the Planning Dept.

I've been there, did that, bought the T-shirt!