Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

muffler

srdb20 wrote: »

Cheers muffler,

Was thinking around Killkenny, Tipperary, Limerick, Carlow?

Any chance of getting planning permission in any of those counties would you say?

No idea myself what the policies are for those counties. Again it will depend on whether you are in a urban or rural location.

For example I googled "Kilkenny county development plan" and found this - Appendix A deals with their housing policies.

Most if not all planning authorities will have the development plans available to download so maybe have a look through them and when you have it narrowed down to 1 particular county get a good local Arch. technician who should be able to help you out.

The Architect

I have an architectural firm in Carlow, and the council isnt too bad, but only if you have some link to the area, parents, close family etc.. and every county will be the same. they will look for birth certs school details etc to prove that you grew up there for a considerable amount of time, other than that you wont get planning. I know of serviced sites in the carlow and Kilkenny area. About half an acre where you dont need to have all the details mentioned above and just apply for the house. The developer provideds your water, sewege but the sites will be that bit more expensive. maybe around 150k. other option is to buy second hand...

srdb20

Hi The Architect could you maybe pm some of those links?

The Architect

can you send me your email address PM and ill forward on the doc. Cheers.

MunsterFan09

Hello All, just a few lines to get peoples thoughts & opinions on my current planning situation.

I applied for PP last May on a site owned by my father in Co.Limerick, the site is in my father's home place, his brother still has the farm there, my father's business is there and my brother built a house on a site beside my site 7 years ago. The application went in to Limerick coco and was refused, the main condition being -

The site of the proposed dwelling is located within the area of strong urban influence as defined in the County Development Plan It is considered that the applicant does not come within the scope of the housing need criteria as set out in the Development Plan and as such, the proposed development would materially contravene the objectives of the County Development Plan in relation to rural settlement, militate against the preservation of the rural environment and be contrary to the proper planning and development of the area.

Basically my family home (where I have lived all my life) has an address in Limerick city (approx 2.5 miles from the site) and on these grounds I am not considered to be from the local area where the site is, even though I have strong family ties there. We appealed to Bord Pleanala on the grounds that it is stated in the county development plan that a landowner or son/daughter should be entitled to build in an area of strong urban influence, also the fact that my brother recieved PP under the same circumstance, along with some other points. We also got some local politicians to represent us.

The decision date for the appeal is Nov 30th, my feeling is it will be refused by Pleanala so I am thinking of withdrawing the application and starting a new (modified) application to Limerick coco. As I have heard that if Pleanala refuse you it will be very difficult to ever get planning on the site.

If anyone has been in this situation, or a similar one can they let me know what they think and what my next move should be? Appreciate it. Thanks

The Architect

Did you submit all your details to support your need to live in the area, and proof that you have lived there all your life. letters from schools, birth cert, passport, driving licence, letter from Parsh Priest, proof of land ownership and how long its been in the family, heard numbers etc. sometimes you need to just give them as much info as possible. Its a tough situation to be in but personally i would withdraw, step back and meet the planner before you submit an airtight application on their recommendations from the meeting. Some would say to leave it with the Bord, but thats just my opinion.:rolleyes:
Dont know if thats any help but if you didnt submit all of the above its only a matter of getting all the info u can together for a new submission....

MunsterFan09

Thanks for the quick reply. The details you mentioned were not all submitted with the application, but Im not sure that submitting birth cert, pasport etc would be any help as they all indicate that I live in Limerick city and not in Co. Limerick, this being main the reason for refusal.

I did provide evidence of land ownership and a letter of consent from my father, but not of how long it has been in the family, I expect this info is available from the land registry.

Yes I have to agree that withdrawing is my next move, I didnt think the pre-planning meeting was necessary when I submitted the first application, thinking because of my close ties I would get permision with no issue.

The Architect

id say a pre planning meeting for a new submission would be the best direction. They wont however meet you unless the appeal is withdrawn. Id be interested to see what anyone else has to say..

Poor Uncle Tom

The Architect wrote: »

id say a pre planning meeting for a new submission would be the best direction. They wont however meet you unless the appeal is withdrawn. Id be interested to see what anyone else has to say..

As has been said, a pre-planning meeting for a fresh application would be the way to go, since all the necessary back-up information was not part of the original planning application or the appeal. If you get a negative outcome at your meeting you can still make a planning application and take the outcome to the board.

The Architect, if anyone has a comment to make on a post they will do so, you do not have to put it out there like a challenge for people to respond, that is called trolling.

sirmoff

The Architect wrote: »

Did you submit all your details to support your need to live in the area, and proof that you have lived there all your life. letters from schools, birth cert, passport, driving licence, letter from Parsh Priest, proof of land ownership and how long its been in the family, heard numbers etc. sometimes you need to just give them as much info as possible. Its a tough situation to be in but personally i would withdraw, step back and meet the planner before you submit an airtight application on their recommendations from the meeting. Some would say to leave it with the Bord, but thats just my opinion.:rolleyes:
Dont know if thats any help but if you didnt submit all of the above its only a matter of getting all the info u can together for a new submission....

Totally agree with this, but the only small bit of advice i can give is to careful what you submit in relation to maps, as i have found in the past that some applicants tend to submit too much information. An example is a farmer i know submitting maps of all his land ownings when there was no need. Its only a small thing and may not apply to you but some information like that is not what most like sharing over the internet.
This is just an example, i know all personal data recieved will not be viewable on the web but i recommend to be conservative with information for the most part.

luncia

Hello,
We finally found a site we would like to build on. It is for sale with FPP and a 7 year occupancy clause. The owner of the FPP died tragically last year and now the father is selling the site. Is there any way we can get around it even on the basis that he has died? We would be looking for finance for the build and I understand that this clause can be a problem. Any help will be greatly appreciated! The site is in North Tipp.

smashey

The occupancy clause applies to the site, not the applicant. You should arrange a pre-planning meeting with the planners.

luncia

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I know that it applies to the site, but if the person has died he obviously cannot live there, so what happens then...

Poor Uncle Tom

If the original applicant has died, whoever takes over the site to build must fit the same 'genuine local housing needs' or be a direct member of the original applicant's family. It would be best to meet the planners and see, firstly if they will allow the sale of the site, and secondly if you 'qualify' to build there.

snellers

Hi guys, have recently been granted FPP on a 1.35 acre site however due to tax implications this may be reduced in size to 1 acre. Whilst the size and exact location of house and entrance (as well as percolation area) won't change, the boundaries will adjust slightly - can anyone advise whether I would need to resubmit planning due to this change?

Thanks in advance

Snellers

Poor Uncle Tom

Yes new planning permission for change of site boundries is required.

judes_c

Hi

just wondering if anyone has any experience with buying a site "subject to planning permission"? what exactly does it mean for the buyer, as in how is the site secured from the seller in order to pursue planning? bit confused about the whole process with regards to ownership what securit does the buyer have?

muffler

judes_c wrote: »

Hi

just wondering if anyone has any experience with buying a site "subject to planning permission"? what exactly does it mean for the buyer, as in how is the site secured from the seller in order to pursue planning? bit confused about the whole process with regards to ownership what securit does the buyer have?

You do not need to own the site in order to apply for permission. All you will need is a letter from the owner giving you his/her consent to make a planning application.

The process is normally handled by the solicitors but in effect what happens is that you enter into an agreement to purchase the site but only if you get the planning permission on it. There will usually be a time limit on it and unfortunately some of the solicitors put this time limit at perhaps 3 months when in reality it should be 6 months.

In any event you can agree to pay a nominal deposit of say €100 and the onus is then on you to apply for the permission and get it within whatever time was specified or agreed on. You cant go wrong really.

judes_c

great, that really cleared that up for me! thanks a mill

alfaromeo84

Lads, i got my planning through a bit ago. Recently i had the plans redrawn to add a stone porch and include full length(height wise) windows at the front. Sent in the drawings to the planning officer, who contacted me to say they will approve the changes, but only if i reapply to Cork County Council. Why it can't be done by them issuing premission now is beyond me, and the planning officer would only say "thats the way".

Fair enough, but what i need to know is:

Is this a completely new submission, and could i be caught for more "development" charges, and recently i was told they also require a bond to be deposited of some few thousand to comply with planting about the property, bond is returned when compliance is given.

Could i leave the windows alone, but build my porch at a later stage with problems.

Poor Uncle Tom

alfaromeo84 wrote: »

Lads, i got my planning through a bit ago. Recently i had the plans redrawn to add a stone porch and include full length(height wise) windows at the front. Sent in the drawings to the planning officer, who contacted me to say they will approve the changes, but only if i reapply to Cork County Council. Why it can't be done by them issuing premission now is beyond me, and the planning officer would only say "thats the way".

The changes you want to make to the house are seen as significant but acceptable, so the LA have to be seen to give a chance to make observations/objections to your proposed changed house.

So even though the council may not have a problem with your changes, a neighbour, An Taisce, Dept of Environment, Dept of the Marine, etc., might have, even though it is not likely.

alfaromeo84 wrote: »

Fair enough, but what i need to know is:

Is this a completely new submission,

Yes.

alfaromeo84 wrote: »

...could i be caught for more "development" charges,

If the floor area increases with the addition of the porch then the development contribution will increase. Also it depecgs on when your original planning was granted, contributions may have increased from then anyway.

alfaromeo84 wrote: »

and recently i was told they also require a bond to be deposited of some few thousand to comply with planting about the property, bond is returned when compliance is given.

Not in all cases, the planning officer should be able to tell you if it is required in your case.

alfaromeo84 wrote: »

Could i leave the windows alone, but build my porch at a later stage with problems.

You could leave the windows alone and build a porch at a later stage which you could build to exempted development standards.

CLASS 7

The construction or erection of a porch outside any external door of a house.
1. Any such structure shall be situated not less than 2 metres from any road.
2. The floor area of any such structure shall not exceed 2 square metres.
3. The height of any such structure shall not exceed, in the case of a structure with a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or, in any other case, 3 metres.

sydthebeat

alfaromeo84 wrote: »

Could i leave the windows alone, but build my porch at a later stage with problems.

most definitely yes.....

leave the windows as they are... perhaps consult with your certifying professional to ascertain what alteration he / she would deem acceptable.

The porch can be included afterwards, exempt from planning, under the conditions outlined by PUT above....

Personally, i wouldn't be seriously considering re-applying....

alfaromeo84

I could get over the porch bit, but i would like the full length windows, they look great and loads of light. It just annoys me so much that they will pass it, but not by amendment. How hard could it be.

Angel2009

just wondering if anyone knows if you buy a site with FPP, and the foundations have to be done in the next few months, do you get an extension when you change the names on the plans?

Mellor

Angel2009 wrote: »

just wondering if anyone knows if you buy a site with FPP, and the foundations have to be done in the next few months, do you get an extension when you change the names on the plans?

Why do the foundations have to be done by a set time?

one big push

THE PLANNING AUTHORITY WANTS ME TO ERECT 4NO.POLES TO MIRROR THAT OF THE PROPOSED RIDGE HEIGHT IN ORDER FOR THEM TO VISUALLY ASSESS THE IMPACT MY 2 STOREY HOUSE WILL HAVE ON THE LOCAL LANDSCAPE AS VIEWED FROM THE SURROUNDING ROAD BUT THE FUNNY SIDE IS THAT THE SITE IS ABOUT HALF MILE IN OFF THE PUBLIC ROAD ON A PRIVATE FARM LANE. ANY IDEAS HOW I MIGHT GO AGOUT ERECTING THESE POLES

Mellor

dig hole,
insert pole
fill hole,


its just a case of getting the length of pole and depth of pole accurate

sirmoff

To the best of my knowledge, which is limited enough, you'l need to place four poles at the four corners of where the house is situated to the height of the eve's. And a pole at each gable end to the height of the proposed ridge. Lenghts of timber should suffice for the pole so long as they are stable.
Of course that is if the house is rectangular in shape. Same general rule applies for all shapes though. Important to take into consideration your finished floor level relative to the ground level.

sydthebeat

Mellor wrote: »

dig hole,
insert pole
fill hole,


its just a case of getting the length of pole and depth of pole accurate

we have sometimes used some security tape from pole to pole to show clearly the profile of the roof......

its not a big job... just make sure you photograph it after installation as sometimes storms can blow them down....

whatsurname

hi all, I am currently in the process of do up a planning application - I am just wondering regarding the site size. The site is in the family and I am jsut wondering how large of a site we would require?
I am hoping to build a 3200sq foot house - what size of plot do you think we could get away with and hope the application is passed? Would .75 of an acre be enough? I will be applying to Louth CC.

Thanks